02:44:31 <***> Buffer Playback...
02:44:31 <rottenwheel> [02:34:15] ajs_ something else you can do is take orders manually with PGP. Order them to be shipped to your place and reship with a business or commercial address. Diego does something like that w/ cyphermarket.
02:44:31 <***> Playback Complete.
04:13:29 <ajs_[m]> rottenwheel yeah. but I live overseas. I would need to arrange something in the US to keep delivery costs low.
15:13:38 <ajs_[m]> chad: https://xmr.radio/pages/manual-orders
15:15:36 <ajs_[m]> we can do manual orders now as suggested by rottenwheel    
15:18:06 <chad[m]> Awesome! Sharing this with a few other people who may also be interested
15:22:12 <chad[m]> Seth should nudge Mullvad, proxysto.re, etc to advertise on xmr.radio
15:31:26 <kinghat[m]> does mullvad take monero directly yet?
15:35:01 <rottenwheel> kinghat[m]: No. Only proxysto.re. They are reliable. I have bought mullvad vouchers on there with monero. 
15:35:03 <rottenwheel> They are listed as official resellers on mullvad website.
15:35:26 <rottenwheel> https://digitalgoods.proxysto.re/
15:35:50 <rottenwheel> https://mullvad.net/en/help/partnerships-and-resellers/
15:36:21 <rottenwheel> Hopefully they start selling Threema invite codes the same way soon. I'll hit them up in a couple weeks when my schedule looks better.
15:40:01 <kinghat[m]> still pretty nonsense to take BTC/BCH and not monero
15:40:31 <kinghat[m]> ivpn does but i dont think they advertise
15:54:40 <rottenwheel> Just use the proxy store...
15:54:44 <rottenwheel> No whining. Lol.
16:46:26 <kinghat[m]> advertise the proxystore then 🤷‍♂️
17:02:04 <msvb-lab> Reminder that we have a village staff meeting in one hour at 18:00 UTC on #monero-events. The agenda https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/593/ plans our appearance at Defcon 29 (August 2021) in Las Vegas and Discord.
17:02:16 <msvb-lab> It's a public meeting that anyone interested in Defcon hacking can attend.
17:55:42 <ajs_[m]> just posted on reddit about xmr radio, but it got auto removed. who do I need to ping to get it approved?
17:55:59 <selsta> sethsimmons: ^
17:57:19 <sethsimmons> ajs_[m]: Send me the link, will approve
17:58:20 <ajs_[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ovboiq/xmrradio_now_broadcasting_and_we_need_your_help/
18:43:55 <sethsimmons> <ajs_[m]> "https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/" <- Approved.
18:43:55 <sethsimmons> You hit the double whammy of new account and Discord link lol
18:44:19 <ajs_[m]> Seth: thanks!
19:22:52 <rottenwheel> <kinghat[m]> "advertise the proxystore then 🤷" <- If they pay me, sure. Lol. 
19:23:15 <rottenwheel> kinghat has been hired as rotten's manager. Ezpz.
21:50:13 <kurtubeydu[m]> My post on Reddit didn't get approved sadly. I will just paste it here.
21:50:20 <kurtubeydu[m]> Demonstration of storing media files on the Monero blockchain and why we should remove tx_extra in next hard fork:
21:50:29 <kurtubeydu[m]> https://paste.mozilla.org/6FUh81Wd/raw
21:54:03 <sech1> tx_extra is used by all mining pools
21:54:09 <sech1> we can't just remove it
21:54:16 <sech1> limit in size maybe, but not remove
22:03:58 <sech1> TX_EXTRA_TAG_PUBKEY is required for all transactions, TX_EXTRA_NONCE and TX_EXTRA_MERGE_MINING_TAG are required for mining
22:04:07 <sech1> TX_EXTRA_TAG_ADDITIONAL_PUBKEYS I think is required when you send to multiple subaddresses
22:08:23 <kurtubeydu[m]> Restricting the size can work. A 16 output transaction uses a maximum of 547 bytes in tx_extra.
22:08:47 <kurtubeydu[m]> That is < 0.4% of the current allowed size.
22:11:14 <kurtubeydu[m]> Better to make the needed fields part of the transaction format.
22:12:24 <kurtubeydu[m]> Not multi output transaction? Don't allow adding TX_EXTRA_TAG_ADDITIONAL_PUBKEYS field.
22:13:02 <sech1> extra nonce and merge mining have to be arbitrary size because of multitude of pool and miner software
22:13:36 <sech1> but they can also be restricted to only coinbase transactions and limited in size
22:15:30 <kurtubeydu[m]> Yes, or announce change 6 months in advance to give miners time to update their code. If they don't too bad for them.
22:17:30 <sech1> do you want to lose half of the pools? You just don't realize the reality of pool implementations and how they're maintained
22:17:59 <sech1> I'm strongly against such radical changes
22:18:17 <kurtubeydu[m]> Just imagine the drama if someone uploads J.D. Salinger's leaked works to the blockchain and the community will have to deal with their estate. Lord hold me.
22:19:15 <mcfranko[m]> If someone wanted to store a large file on the blockchain, they'd either pay a ton of fees, or they'd have to mine it themselves, which would take a lot of good hardware to have any chance of doing in a short period of time
22:19:18 <sech1> I have no idea who that is
22:20:17 <mcfranko[m]> Plus, the soft cap size limit will cause fees to go up to maybe a few cents per tx once we reach over 300kb block size
22:20:38 <mcfranko[m]> At that point the fees of putting a file on the blockchain will be extremely large
22:20:41 <sech1> and I still don't think that data on blockchain qualifies as actual data legally
22:20:51 <sech1> blockchain + method of extracting the data qualifies
22:21:30 <sech1> you can even put the hash of torrent file in to the transaction (only 32 bytes, so it can fit everywhere, not just in tx_extra)
22:21:53 <sech1> you don't even need tx_extra, just provide the script to extract the hash and then download the torrent
22:21:56 <mcfranko[m]> Also, a size limit wouldn't stop this anyways, because as you said in your post you could split the file across multiple transactions
22:22:14 <mcfranko[m]> sech1: IPFS would probably work better
22:22:15 <sech1> tx_publey is 32 bytes, put torrent hash there and write the script
22:22:31 <sech1> so from legal point of view, removing tx_extra doesn't solve anything
22:23:39 <plowsof[m]> 1 byte of data could be chained together to form anything 
22:24:37 <sech1> multiple transactions increase the price of storage though
22:25:29 <sech1> only allowing TX_EXTRA_TAG_PUBKEY in non-miner transactions and limiting the total size of tx_extra in miner transactions would already solve a lot of things
22:25:35 <kurtubeydu[m]> sech1: There is a difference between hosting content and linking to content. Torrents aren't forever, the blockchain is. Seeding is the illegal part.
22:26:06 <kurtubeydu[m]> sech1: I agree.
22:26:07 <sech1> *TX_EXTRA_TAG_ADDITIONAL_PUBKEYS and TX_EXTRA_TAG_PUBKEY in non-miner transactions
22:26:19 <plowsof[m]> "Craig Wright" will have monero banned if it contains the bitcoin whitepaper in tx_extra 
22:26:37 <mcfranko[m]> carig wright
22:26:37 <mcfranko[m]> more like
22:26:39 <mcfranko[m]> craig wrong
22:27:03 <mcfranko[m]> In Canada ISPs do track your internet to see if you're transferring copyrighted works
22:27:07 <sech1> I still don't think Monero should care about it
22:27:17 <sech1> It was designed to be censorship-resistant
22:27:25 <sech1> and now you propose to bend to censorship
22:27:39 <pigeons[m]> all full nodes dont even get paid the tx fees and still need to relay your spam, not that concerned about its legality, but just storing your crap is an abuse vector
22:27:55 <pigeons[m]> just relaying and storing it
22:28:02 <sech1> reducing tx_extra size makes sense though to limit blockchain growth
22:28:12 <sech1> and restricting regular transactions
22:28:32 <mcfranko[m]> This is a bit of a side topic, but that's one thing I really like about EIP 1559's fee system, instead of tx fees going to miners, the majority of it is burned, increasing the value, and essentially paying tx fees to everyone
22:29:09 <pigeons[m]> they still have bribe to miners in the protocol for faster service so i tdont thin it will change muc, and even if they didnt they would still be paid out of band
22:29:50 <mcfranko[m]> The base_fee changes really quickly if the target gas limit * 2 (30,000,000 gas) is being met
22:30:08 <mcfranko[m]> So eventually it gets to a point after about 20 blocks where most of the fee is still being burned
22:30:39 <pigeons[m]> you cant know what most of the fee is, could be paid out of band
22:31:03 <mcfranko[m]> Like organizing off chain to pay fee you mean?
22:31:31 <pigeons[m]> yeah like all the deals people already have with pools to mine their transactions no matter what the fee in the transaction is
22:31:50 <pigeons[m]> or submit your tx here on this web form and pay your extra fee
22:32:23 <mcfranko[m]> That's true
22:33:19 <mcfranko[m]> Still though, ethereum demand goes up to 30,000,000 gas every block from people paying out of band tx fees, each transaction still has to pay base fee
22:33:53 <mcfranko[m]> And eventually you get to a point where people won't pay that base_fee, and the target 15,000,000 gas is being used, and there isn't a fee market anymore
22:34:04 <mcfranko[m]> And there wouldn't be any reason to include a high miner tip
22:35:21 <pigeons[m]> or any reason to mine
22:35:34 <pigeons[m]> or any reason to make transactions
22:36:04 <mcfranko[m]> There is still a small tip given to miners to give them a reason to include your transaction in a block
22:36:55 <mcfranko[m]> It would just be really small
22:37:40 <mcfranko[m]> And there wouldn't be a market for miner tips, because if the hard gas limit (30,000,000 gas) was being hit, the base_fee would increase very quickly (takes 20 blocks to increase 10x)
22:41:23 <mcfranko[m]> Probably couldn't be applied to Monero obviously though, because it's probably far too late to incorporate such a drastic change to how fees work, but just thought I'd bring it up, because I think it's a far superior fee system
22:42:43 <mcfranko[m]> Also significantly increases the cost of spamming the chain as a miner, because you need to pay the base fee as well, you can't mine your own transactions for cheap
22:47:18 <mcfranko[m]> Plus, the fees the spammer pays go to everyone, not just the miner