00:24:40 <xmrscott[m]> hyperviper: What do you mean other websites?
06:43:36 <rottenwheel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6tw19ykykQ
11:28:20 <plowsof[m]> https://twitter.com/binaryFate/status/1422336732435947521
11:35:09 <plowsof[m]> In the event that the 5577XMR be returned to the GF wallet (and you want to be notified) may i suggest you create a view only wallet or follow the unofficial GF donation twitter alert account (which now checks both Matrix + Github for contribution announcements and also has a ccs merge request open for 0xmr) https://twitter.com/WatchFund
13:36:35 <midipoet> bit off-topic, but if anybody is interested:
13:36:36 <midipoet> https://github.com/mvt-project/mvt
13:37:04 <midipoet> ^ Mobile Verification Toolkit (MVT) is a collection of utilities to simplify and automate the process of gathering forensic traces helpful to identify a potential compromise of Android and iOS devices. It has been developed and released by the Amnesty International Security Lab in July 2021 in the context of the Pegasus project along with a technical forensic methodology and forensic evidence.
19:25:08 <sethsimmons> Hahahahahahahahaha https://electriccoin.co/blog/should-zcash-switch-from-proof-of-work-to-proof-of-stake/
19:25:33 <sethsimmons> What a brilliant way for Zooko to further enrich himself and his VC buddies in perpetuity
19:29:14 <rupee[m]> ya know, because it's more decentralized that way 🙄
19:29:53 <sethsimmons> Soooo much more
19:30:26 <sethsimmons> Interesting he doesn't mention how percent of supply (and thus rewards) compound for people like him over time with no additional effort or investment.
19:30:31 <sethsimmons> Sure it was just an oversight
19:38:36 <mcfranko[m]> I really want to believe that zcash is okay, because zk snarks do offer better privacy guarantees than ring signatures (much larger anonymity set) and take a smaller amount of data, but that's largely overshadowed by the trusted setup, the dev tax and enormous pre mine and now proof of stake
19:38:54 <sethsimmons> They are not more efficient, FWIW.
19:39:12 <mcfranko[m]> They take less data AFAIK, but longer verification and very long to produce
19:39:14 <sethsimmons> Zcash as a network and product are beyond salvation IMO.
19:39:24 <mcfranko[m]> Yeah
19:39:31 <sethsimmons> The privacy approach is interesting but very flawed ATM, but future versions may be usable.
19:39:42 <sethsimmons> mcfranko[m]: No, they are both larger and require longer verification times.
19:39:48 <mcfranko[m]> Oh
19:40:06 <sethsimmons> They have improved quite a bit over the years but are still much less efficient compare to the Monero protocol
19:40:22 <sethsimmons> 2300b for Zcash vs 1400b for Monero for typical 1-in 2-out transactions.
19:40:36 <mcfranko[m]> Cool
19:40:57 <mcfranko[m]> And triptych will improve that a lot as well
19:41:21 <sethsimmons> Efficiency is something that often isn't discussed when comparing the two, so I try to bring that up when I can as one of the key reasons Monero is still using decoy-based privacy 🙂
19:41:32 <sethsimmons> https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/comparing-private-spends/
19:41:35 <Inge> HALO 2 will save ZEC - Probably while allowing the BAD criminals to still be tracked
19:41:53 <sethsimmons> mcfranko[m]: Yup, will bring privacy much closer together.
19:42:22 <sethsimmons> But important to remember that today in real life Monero likely provides better privacy as there is such a drastically larger crowd of transactions/transacting entities to hide among.
19:45:50 <mcfranko[m]> Yeah
20:08:46 <Rucknium[m]> With Zcash, if the trusted setup is compromised, a malicious actor can just mint coins at will, right? My understanding is that privacy itself would not be affected. They are supposedly getting rid of the trusted setup in the next upgrade.
20:10:33 <sethsimmons> Rucknium[m]: Yes, it's perfectly hiding so the trusted setup being compromised would "just" allow for minting at will.
20:11:22 <mcfranko[m]> It's a group of 80 people that would have to collude
20:11:32 <mcfranko[m]> That's a very small group of people to have trust in
20:11:37 <mcfranko[m]> It's better than it used to be, it used to be like 3
20:12:34 <mcfranko[m]> Maybe at some point zk starks will be practical to use for every transaction (right now they take like 20 kilobytes)
20:12:54 <mcfranko[m]> They don't need a trusted setup, and have the added benefit of being quantum secure
20:13:01 <sethsimmons> mcfranko[m]: Yeah, I'm hopeful for that.
20:13:31 <sethsimmons> Apparently HALO2 + Orchid removes trusted setup while still utilizing zk-SNARKS but how it does that is unclear as they haven't published details.
20:14:28 <sethsimmons> (That is what they're forking to next, IIRC)
20:14:33 <mcfranko[m]> sethsimmons: Given that the info is coming from a company trying to profit off of a product, they might have a general idea, or like some details on how to remove trusted setup, but probably don't really have a full plan
20:14:55 <sethsimmons> Or it's researched but not yet realistic for real-world usage.
20:14:57 <sethsimmons> Who knows
20:15:22 <sethsimmons> I take everything from their marketing team with a very large grain of salt and wait for real world info on this stuff.
20:16:47 <Rucknium[m]> Allegedly they have some of this stuff on testnet now: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/zcash-upcoming-upgrade-first-step-150000721.html
20:19:54 <rupee[m]> <sethsimmons> "Yes, it's perfectly hiding so th" <- Note that it's not just like holders get diluted. They have turnstiles. Anyone that created fake coins would know that they had and therefore would go to any means necessary to be among the first through the turnstile. Therefore, innocent long-term hodlers that aren't on top of it will be left with nothing.
20:23:52 <mcfranko[m]> I also don't like the zcash community
20:24:01 <Rucknium[m]> When they patched that inflation bug a while back and then announced turnstiles my eyes just about popped out of my head. Maybe it's the only solution though.
20:24:21 <mcfranko[m]> They very much just have a "hodl, to the moon!!!!1111!!!!" mentality
20:24:30 <mcfranko[m]> And most of them don't even use the one thing it has going for it
20:24:32 <mcfranko[m]> Privacy