01:26:51 <BusyBoredom[m]> Haha, it's like a subtle "you sure you don't have anything to hide?"
03:53:20 <rottenstonks> there is more loaded on the pipe. expect it. https://twitter.com/rottenwheel/status/1430684116081577986
04:28:53 <nikg83[m]> <rottenstonks> "there is more loaded on the pipe..." <- Salty 
06:44:09 <carrington[m]> I have to agree with crypto_grampy  subtweet on this issue. Parler was a notably messy abject technical failure as a "free speech twitter" and the stakes for free speech money are much much higher
07:12:06 <DaveyJones> imagine calling others bein snowflakes - and being a crybaby snowflake yourself "uuuh the cancel meeee i gonna cry"
07:13:09 <DaveyJones> people like cherry picking whenever it suits themselves
07:13:28 <xmrscott[m]> Yeah, Parler was a bad privacy joke
07:14:02 <xmrscott[m]> They were so technically incompetent they didn't even strip EXIF data from video/picture uploads which shows how much those who worked there really cared/thought of privacy
07:29:52 <xmrscott[m]> Anyone who claims that those staffed there after that privacy debacle should have a lead role on Monero is being disingenuous at best and clearly cares more for politics than actual privacy and merits
07:31:22 <nikg83[m]> xmrscott[m]: It’s quite obvious, he got booted off and is now ranting 
07:32:33 <nikg83[m]> Ppl on Twitter need to made aware of that though
07:33:15 <xmrscott[m]> Oh yeah I imagine. I have no interest in giving him Twitter interactions or whatever because 'wrestling w/ pigs in the mud' is more beneficial to the pig as far as Twitter's algo goes
07:34:04 <nikg83[m]> xmrscott[m]: True, I hope ppl go through his feed and realise what he has been doing lately 
07:34:16 <xmrscott[m]> So long as people on Matrix/IRC and Reddit get that basic, very bad misses like EXIF striping didn't happen, I don't really care what people yell into the void on birdsite
07:35:45 <xmrscott[m]> Folks' time is better spent on other things than yelling into a hellsite void w/ people who just want attention and are intellectually dishonest, IMO
07:42:49 <xmrscott[m]> Don't even get me started on the needing to fork over SSN + driver's licence to enable features either. Total garbage fire, that site and staff
07:43:30 <l33t_bit[m]> I use element so I can avoid twitter, yet here we are talking about twitter.
07:44:43 <xmrscott[m]> I've said my bit about garbage fires, you don't need to worry about me ranting about birdsite at this point I think :)
07:46:42 <xmrscott[m]>  * I've said my bit about privacy related dumpster fires, you don't need to worry about me ranting about birdsite at this point I think :)
07:55:07 <Halver[m]> Concerning accessing twitter anonymously (only in read mode), there is yotter (open, on github).
07:55:07 <Halver[m]> eg this instance : https://yotter.kavin.rocks/
08:00:06 <xmrscott[m]> That way seems to require a login for even just read-only, I would recommend any nitter instance which is usually what fediverse privacy focused instances use for links https://nitter.net/about
08:11:03 <Halver[m]> yotter login is just to memorize the twitter accounts you want to follow
11:00:05 <plowsof[m]> Being an edgy meme lord wont get you far in the real world. has geonic operation 'Pit-Stop "remove that rotten wheel" been a success?
11:25:17 <ErCiccione> plowsof: We had a discussion between matrix mods about what to do. We got reports of repeated homophobic and general insults by PM (which sums to the insults in public chats and past insults to mods and community members in private and public). There were mixed feelings about a permanent ban,, so at the end we agreed to give him a temporary ban for 1 month and see how he would behave during those 30 days. Since the day after the ban he
11:25:18 <ErCiccione> already started again to insult people, so some of the mods that were for a temp ban now agree a permanent ban is necessary, so that's probably going to be the line.
11:25:47 <ErCiccione> The ban is on both Matrix and IRC Monero rooms
11:29:36 <ErCiccione> * started again to insult people and evade the ban
16:27:33 <kinghat[m]> is that true that snipa was removed from lead maintainer because he worked for parlor? i was under the impression that he was always super busy and was hard to find time.
16:43:33 <xmrscott[m]> I also recall from the conversation at the time that basically after Parler getting scrapped w/ meta data and losing vendor support that workload was higher still. I don't recall politics being the basis for which he stepped down from lead maintainer
16:48:06 <crypto_grampy[m]> Get in here and vote for Monero support (yes it is an option) on BitBox: https://twitter.com/ShiftCryptoHQ/status/1430906536071622659?s=20
16:55:40 <ErCiccione> I wouldn't exclude there was an added political reason even if technical reasons were enough. The core team would have been heavily associated with an alt-right platform, i don't think they would have wanted that.
16:56:48 <ErCiccione> I mean, it's not like having a random volunteer or employer from that platform. it's their CTO working as lead maintainer for Monero. It's quite a strong association
16:58:09 <Mumuks> ErCiccione: that's bullshit, Parker is GOPe, it is completely sanitized
16:59:09 <Mumuks> By that standard you would not want anybody associated to Twatter or Goolag because of their political bias too
17:01:33 <Rucknium[m]> Having a Twitter or Google employee being in a key Monero position would be unworkable. Conflict of interest too intense.
17:08:31 <PoolboyChad[m]> ErCicciis  one is the idea that any lead maintainer/core dev/etc should be a nobody with no strong association to any other organization? Or are you suggesting that Monero has some guideline/rule-set for which organizations its ok to be associated with?
17:09:14 <PoolboyChad[m]> I can understand a conflict of interest between surveillance companies and Monero development, but are there also political associations to be aware of?
17:11:18 <luigi1111w> kinghat[m] he stepped down voluntarily; it's true there was controversy/pressure from multiple angles
17:11:19 <carrington[m]> Surveillance is political
17:12:37 <PoolboyChad[m]> carrington[m]: Ok, let me rephrase. What affiliations, other than affiliation to a surveillance org, would present a conflict of interest?
17:13:35 <ErCiccione> <PoolboyChad[m]> "ErCicciis  one is the idea that..." <- There are no guidelines or rules, i'm just saying that it's not a good idea to have the core team strongly associated with an al-right platform. It would be detrimental from many points of view and an easy way to create drama and division
17:15:00 <Mumuks> ErCiccione: how is Parler alt-right?
17:16:10 <ErCiccione> I don't think that's a question that really needs to be answered. Even if they tried to sell themselves as a neutral "free speach" platform, they were clearly supporting and enabling alt-right personalities.
17:17:00 <PoolboyChad[m]> Not sure what bearing that has on someone's ability to contribute to a privacy technology.
17:17:15 <Mumuks> Parler is not free speech, that's Gab. Parler is censored. Hence me asking.
17:17:48 <ErCiccione> Parler went the moderate way after backlashes
17:17:55 <Mumuks> Also, that's like saying Ford is alt right because someone you don't like bough one of his cars
17:18:09 <ErCiccione> yeah, ok
17:18:13 <selsta> #monero-offtopic
17:18:16 <Mumuks> ErCiccione: Ok, so you know they are not
17:18:41 <Rucknium[m]> PoolboyChad[m]: Wasn't Parler's privacy abysmal? Disqualification right there.
17:18:50 <Mumuks> To me removing the guy because he was working at Parler shows a toxic mentality
17:19:21 <luigi1111w> Rucknium[m] that was a point yes
17:19:44 <kinghat[m]> doesnt all of the technologies we espouse support an "alt-right" ecosystem? they support all ecosystems if need be. thats the point, isnt it?
17:20:47 <Rucknium[m]> Injecting politics into Monero is an easy way to divide-and-conquer. Don't take the bait.
17:21:45 <Mumuks> Rucknium[m]: But that's the problem, until now we have tried to avoid it, but despite me not wanting to believe it there seems to be a push
17:22:08 <selsta> This was 9 months ago, he stepped down voluntarily. Why this discussion now?
17:22:59 <kinghat[m]> i havent. which is why im asking. if it was about technical abilities, how did he become lead maintainer in the first place? otherwise, it wasnt about technical abilities in the first place.
17:23:12 <crypto_grampy[m]> <PoolboyChad[m]> "Not sure what bearing that has o" <- I'd say there's a big difference between contributing and being a leader/lead maintainer of a project 
17:23:53 <xmrscott[m]> selsta: In short, an individual who PM'd people slurs was banned from Monero related rooms for harassment. They've decided to try raise some dust in a vain rage attempt (? proper idiom?)
17:24:07 <PoolboyChad[m]> crypto_grampy[m]: Thats just different magnitudes of contribution
17:24:19 <selsta> yep stirring up old drama :/
17:24:20 <kinghat[m]> selsta: probably because communication and transparency is meh
17:25:30 <kinghat[m]> ive been flaky as of late too so i didnt even realize he stepped down 🤷‍♂️
17:25:45 <kinghat[m]> thanks for the info luigi1111w 
17:25:53 <selsta> it was mentioned multiple times
17:25:55 <carrington[m]> How he got chosen for lead maintainer when running a privacy nightmare platform is a good question though
17:26:01 <kinghat[m]> lel sooo many luigis in here
17:26:29 <nioc> we need more luigis
17:26:52 <kinghat[m]> like 10
17:27:00 <nioc> a start
17:27:14 <luigi1111w> I could maybe get another one or two
17:27:17 <Mumuks> selsta: because a lot of us did not know that some people were trying to introduce so much political bias in Monero development,, obviously
17:27:30 <kinghat[m]> need a ping all the luigis bot
17:27:36 <Mumuks> And even if the way it has been introduced is unfortunate, it is a valid point
17:28:43 <luigi1111w> carrington[m] I don't know that anyone knew his IRL profile; a maintainer was sought from longtime contributors and he volunteered
17:29:09 <kinghat[m]> we are all terrorist and cp enablers so working for a social media platform seems like a walk in the park.
17:33:37 <nikg83[m]> kinghat[m]: Stop 
17:35:37 <kinghat[m]> https://i.imgur.com/gNjCuMC.gif
18:08:57 <ErCiccione> <Mumuks> "selsta: because a lot of us did..." <- What is unclear in this phrase: "he stepped down voluntarily for a number of reasons"?. Seems like your just trying to picture people as politically biased, doesn't matter what answer you get. A maintainer was needed, he volunteered, people had various concerns, he stepped down. That's it.
18:11:17 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> <Mumuks> "selsta: because a lot of us did..." <- Admittedly, a lot of us Monero users have unconscious political biases which drew us into it. Not that it's necessarily bad imo, as long as it doesn't bleed into the project entirely.
18:12:07 <x3nu[m]> Rotten is a dipshit. We get it. But there is pretty clearly a political bias that is becoming more pronounced within Moneros community that is left leaning or, in other words, “Reddit”. It’s hard not to have politics in everything but that’s just the reality. I follow Monero pretty damn close and I didn’t even realize snipa stepped down. Bad communication overall.
18:12:44 <selsta> it was mentioned in #-dev
18:13:29 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Whether left, right, or some other thing, I think we can all value privacy out of suspicion of the state and corps
18:15:00 <ErCiccione> The funny thing is that left and right doesn't mean anything. What's left in the US it's probably right in other countries.
18:16:06 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> ErCiccione: Definitely. That's part of why I basically gave up on regular politics personally.
18:16:20 <Mumuks> <ErCiccione> "What is unclear in this phrase:..." <- He was attacked because of politics and to not deal with the bullshit he stepped down. I'm not sure how you think that is ok. For god sake, you use the term alt-right unironically.
18:17:01 <ErCiccione> Mumuks: And you know this how? Because you are the only person who said that up to this moment
18:17:05 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Mumuks: I'd like some more context tbh. Just started looking into this.
18:17:09 <selsta> He was super unavailable as maintainer due to his CTO role.
18:17:47 <ErCiccione> the amount of bullshit the is being spread as universal truth is alarming, but hey, that's the internet for us
18:18:12 <kinghat[m]> selsta: that was my impression
18:18:58 <Mumuks> ErCiccione: Because that is the reason YOU guys said
18:19:07 <selsta> After this Parler thing blew up he had zero time for monero until he quit working there months later.
18:19:29 <Mumuks> Now, you guys want to talk that he wasn't available, fine, that is not what YOU were saying before
18:19:30 <selsta> It wouldn't have made sense for him to continue this position.
18:19:43 <selsta> Mumuks: when did I say anything?
18:19:52 <luigi1111w> you guys is a bit general
18:19:56 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> selsta: Parler? I don't watch the news so I have no idea what that is
18:20:27 <ErCiccione> it's not general is pure bullshit and spinning word to push an agenda
18:20:34 <ErCiccione> *words
18:20:44 <selsta> ch0ccyra1n[m]: it's not relevant for monero
18:21:04 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Okay got it
18:21:41 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> I really just want clarification on what appears to me to be middle-school level drama
18:22:32 <Mumuks> <ErCiccione> "There are no guidelines or rules" <- This
18:23:18 <ErCiccione> Mumuks: And that's for you is me saying that snipa was forced to step back because of political reasons? Are you being serious?
18:24:29 <ErCiccione> that's my personal opinion about having somebody in a responsability position linked to alt-right movements. You said "He was attacked because of politics and to not deal with the bullshit he stepped down. I'm not sure how you think that is ok. ". Do you understand the difference?
18:24:31 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Ah okay. That seems to make sense. There are certain responsibilities that a project maintainer must make sure of. I think it's reasonable to not have prominent community members using either Parler or Raddle or whatever else is political, unless the project itself IS political
18:24:40 <Mumuks> That is completely unacceptable
18:24:43 <x3nu[m]> <selsta> "it was mentioned in #-dev" <- Like was that it? Was there a press release or a tweet or a Reddit post?
18:24:51 <selsta> a press release??
18:25:00 <x3nu[m]> Like a blog entry
18:25:08 <x3nu[m]> On the get Monero page
18:25:22 <selsta> It's a developer related position. it was mentioned in -dev and everyone involved with monero development knows it.
18:25:48 <selsta> There is no one replacing him yet so there is no blog post around it.
18:26:44 <kinghat[m]> i think selsta is a perfect fit 😀
18:26:50 <selsta> nope :P
18:27:10 <selsta> already have too much to focus on
18:27:16 <luigi1111w> From my perspective, there were 3 things: "Parler"; the EXIF/privacy nightmare; availability/time. He stepped down voluntarily. I was already doing administrative stuff and merging PRs before and during his tenure (and especially IIRC during the absence), so I continued.
18:27:28 <x3nu[m]> I’d argue that something like this absolutely should have been disclosed once it had been decided
18:27:35 <x3nu[m]> Not just on dev.
18:28:16 <luigi1111w> 3 things that people were concerned about (not my own opinions/weighting)***
18:29:01 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Like I don't have a problem with Riseup maintainers using Raddle or something similar, but there is a difference between a political and apolitical project
18:29:10 <kinghat[m]> is core eyeing a replacement or waiting for someone to show interest?
18:29:19 <luigi1111w> a little of both
18:29:28 <luigi1111w> selsta has already declined
18:29:30 <Rucknium[m]> I think having someone in that position who also works for the Communist Party would present problems as well.
18:30:03 <Mumuks> <ErCiccione> "that's my personal opinion about" <- You are making it worse. You know Parler is moderated, you've admitted to it before. Yet you keep calling it propaganda names. Alt right is not even a real thing, just a boogey man to rally progressives, anyone using it seriously should not be taken seriously. And no, I do not understand tour point. Thinking that because someone works at a company like Parler they can not be associated or
18:30:03 <Mumuks> leading Monero is unacceptable.
18:30:14 <Rucknium[m]> Or the Tories or Labour UK, even.
18:30:36 <ErCiccione> yeah, i got it that you don't understand.
18:31:04 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Mumuks: It seems like you are unnecessarily injecting politics into an apolitical community, or at least fanning the flames. No offence
18:32:51 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> We shouldn't make politics a massive priority. There are people with all sorts of politics, and what we need right now is a strong community to push things forward
18:33:03 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> * We shouldn't make politics a massive priority. There are people with all sorts of politics here, and what we need right now is a strong community to push things forward
18:33:14 <Mumuks> ch0ccyra1n[m]: That's my point.
18:33:47 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Is that really? Cuz it seems like you are contributing to the drama, just from the other direction.
18:34:10 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Like, we don't need any politics beyond simply the common goal of privacy for all
18:34:46 <ErCiccione> "There is no worse deaf than the person who doesn't want to hear"
18:36:02 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> The point of uncensorable money, or anything for that matter, is to be neutral to politics. If you want politics, just use PayPal or some other crap
18:36:54 <Mumuks> ch0ccyra1n[m]: I'm saying that someone should not be barred from leading Core because he works at a company that someone calls boigeyman names
18:37:32 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Mumuks: Eh maybe it would have been better to just separate and compartmentalize those two identities
18:37:59 <nikg83[m]> Mumuks: He was unavailable, don’t come to a conclusion because rotten said so 
18:38:30 <Mumuks> nikg83[m]: I came to a conclusion because ErCiccione said so
18:38:32 <ErCiccione> it was explained many times. If they didn't understand at this point, they just don't want to understand
18:38:46 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> ErCiccione: Yeah at this point
18:39:04 <nikg83[m]> Mumuks: Did he decide to remove him ? One can think of any reason 
18:39:30 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> I don't care too much about this, as long as someone who holds the Monero philosophy takes up the new position
18:41:00 <Mumuks> ErCiccione: Who's they?
18:41:43 <ErCiccione> that's you
18:41:55 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> What we need is unity right now, not division. It would just be playing into the hands of states and corps to not move forward
18:42:10 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Like sometimes, it's just better to move on
18:43:11 <Mumuks> ErCiccione: Sure
18:43:55 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Speaking of which, I would like some advice. How could I contribute to Monero with my limited expertise on cryptography? I mainly joined this Matrix chat specifically cuz of my desire to contribute
18:44:24 <xmrscott[m]> ch0ccyra1n: Join the MRL channel, ask around there
18:44:30 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> * Speaking of which, I would like some advice. How could I contribute to Monero with my limited understanding of cryptography? I mainly joined this Matrix chat specifically cuz of my desire to contribute
18:44:36 <ErCiccione> or #monero-dev:matrix.org 
18:44:36 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> MRL?
18:44:39 <selsta> There are also ways to contribute without any cryptography knowledge.
18:45:00 <xmrscott[m]> Monero Research Lab, the most applicable place for cryptography on the project TMK
18:45:02 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> selsta: Such as? 😄
18:45:30 <xmrscott[m]> If you speak multiple languages contributing to translation work for app + site, GUI feedback, etc
18:45:33 <selsta> ch0ccyra1n[m]: e.g. website development, also a large portion of the normal code base doesn't require any cryptography knowledge
18:45:56 <ErCiccione> ch0ccyra1n: it's easier if you say what you are interested in, so people can point you better
18:46:04 <xmrscott[m]> TMK I don't think anyone has taken up pushing for inclusion of Monero in Tails now that there's a flatpak and should be easy
18:46:46 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> ErCiccione: Sure. I'm mostly interested in community engagement, and getting ordinary people to use Monero
18:47:13 <ErCiccione> xmrscott[m]: I abandoned the conversation because i got very busy with Haveno and other stuff and the discussion was going in circles and tails wants basically to do as less as possible, but if somebody wants to take over i'll be happy to give all the info and contacts
18:47:33 <ErCiccione> ch0ccyra1n[m]: #monero-outreach:monero.social and this chat. Usually there isn't so much drama :P
18:47:36 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Like, there's this thing called the Networking Effect, where if more people use something, more people will then use it
18:48:50 <Rucknium[m]> If you are inclined on research, I'd suggest doing deep research on technology adoption of financial products. 
18:49:28 <Rucknium[m]> Economists have done a lot of research on technology adoption, but I'd say we still don't understand it too well.
18:49:40 <xmrscott[m]> Granted COVID19 is a thing and meetups are likely subject to vaccination rates, etc in your area, but being a Monero/privacy advocate at local CC meetups is also a thing you can take up
18:50:00 <xmrscott[m]> In terms of helping drive adoption and what have you
18:50:01 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> CC meetups?
18:50:18 <xmrscott[m]> CyrptoCurrency, not to be confused with Credit Cards
18:50:39 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Ah
18:50:41 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Lol
18:51:01 <luigi1111w> it's where you meet up and show off your shiny metal credit cards
18:51:12 <luigi1111w> "this only costs me $450/year"
18:51:21 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> My area has no places that accept Monero, and only one place that accepts Bitcoin
18:51:40 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Sadly
18:52:16 <xmrscott[m]> I mean that's somewhat of a hook at least, you can ask if they'd be interested in Monero after explaining the advantages of XMR
18:53:16 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Plus also, getting Monero in the first place is still a hurdle to overcome for a lot of people, who don't understand centralized exchanges, let alone p2p
18:54:01 <ErCiccione> Will be easier soon (shameless plug)
18:55:41 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> I suppose it would be better to talk in #monero-outreach:monero.social about this topic
18:56:04 <ErCiccione> Since i'm at it: We are working on the design of Haveno in these days, if you want to stay on track i suggest to join #haveno:haveno.network . Don't forget to subscribe and smash that like button
18:56:49 <ErCiccione> Our goal is to keep it as simple as possible so that people with poor or no technical knowledge will have no problems at all
18:57:08 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Very cool
21:34:42 <sgp_[m]> I think the Monero community sometimes supports dramam more than it supports privacy, just an observation
21:34:49 <sgp_[m]> * I think the Monero community sometimes supports drama more than it supports privacy, just an observation
21:41:09 <ch0ccyra1n[m]> Yeah sadly
21:50:36 <mfoolb> I too want to find forgotten funds on some chain
22:04:57 <ComplyLast> dont we all
23:18:44 <rehrar> Mumuks: keep in mind this position was not about leading core. 
23:18:56 <rehrar> At no point did Snipa ever join the core team. 
23:19:36 <rehrar> Lead maintainer is strictly a technological position of reviewing and merging code into the database. 
23:20:11 <rehrar> It has nothing to do with the other functions of the core team. It's a delegated task from them at best. 
23:21:48 <rehrar> Oops. Not database. Codebase
23:27:23 <luigi1111> ah ha monero is a database
23:33:27 <selsta> I heard the lead maintainer adds transactions into the blockchain