00:00:24 <geonic> nioc :)
00:00:33 <sethsimmons> I've wasted enough hours of my life attempting to clean up his messes.
00:01:25 <geonic> "when you're sick of moderating them, just ban them"
00:01:57 <sethsimmons> sethsimmons: I don't speak as a mod with this ^
00:03:39 <utxobr[m]> it is good to have people willing to call things out to improve, but that post (as other comments) was just completely pointless (again, as other comments)
00:03:45 <sgp_[m]> geonic: I mean fwiw, this is also kinda true though, at least in r/CC. If someone is bad intentioned it's not worth anyone's time to play a stupid game
00:05:03 <DiegoSalazar[m]> sethsimmons: Even if you were, banning is part of modding. 
00:05:20 <geonic> tell'em Diego
00:05:34 <DiegoSalazar[m]> Thx
00:18:52 <needmoney90> I'm fully on board with this. Geonic has been a headache and a half to deal with, and on balance his nastiness and constant hostility makes this an environment non-conducive to people sticking around to do work (and not politick). If the choice is between a whole host of other people leaving due to a rotten apple and getting rid of the rotten apple, I'm happy to get rid of the apple.
00:19:32 <needmoney90> Inb4 the entire mod team being in agreement is somehow secretly a vendetta
00:19:45 <geonic> oh, look who emerged from the cave. another Diego fan! hi needmoney! please pull up a chair.
00:19:50 <needmoney90> Don't let the door hit you on the way out 
00:20:16 <geonic> I'm glad this was worthy of your visit.
00:20:44 <needmoney90> It's true, I like Diego more than you. Then again, I like pretty much everyone more than you, so that isn't saying much.
00:20:52 <needmoney90> o7
00:21:48 <geonic> The feelings are mutual.
00:22:03 <Rucknium[m]> This is better than a soap opera 👀 
00:22:03 <Rucknium[m]> (I hope I am not being too insensitive with this comment)
00:22:15 <geonic> Rucknium[m]: you're spot on actually :D
00:22:43 <sethsimmons> > <@rucknium:monero.social> This is better than a soap opera 👀 
00:22:43 <sethsimmons> > (I hope I am not being too insensitive with this comment)
00:22:43 <sethsimmons> Never a dull moment in Monero, lmao
00:22:53 <geonic> we're reaching catharsis after so many years of putting up with my... with my... DISCUSSING UNCOMFORTABLE TOPICS!
00:23:06 <geonic> the nerve..
00:23:39 <sethsimmons> geonic: This is not the issue, but nice proof of your inability to be genuine.
00:23:45 <luigi1111> so is geonic banned on r/monero now?
00:23:55 <xmrscott[m]> > <@rucknium:monero.social> This is better than a soap opera 👀 
00:23:55 <xmrscott[m]> > (I hope I am not being too insensitive with this comment)
00:23:55 <xmrscott[m]> No offense taken, the fact that the -community has to deal with bad faith trolls on a regular basis is rather soap-y in nature
00:23:57 <sethsimmons> I love discussing uncomfortable topics and am grateful when people approach these things critically and opt for positive change.
00:24:26 <xmrscott[m]> Indeed, infact there's a weekly Monero reddit thread for it
00:24:32 <needmoney90> luigi1111: dotting some i's and crossing some t's
00:24:42 <needmoney90> Making sure our ducks are all in a row.
00:24:51 <geonic> opting for positive change happens at the end, Seth. we don't have to sing songs and hold hands while affecting positive change.
00:25:28 <sethsimmons> geonic: We also don't have to attack people who do good work with vitriol, trolling, and entrapment.
00:25:39 <geonic> are you a lawyer or a reddit mod?
00:25:46 <sethsimmons> I'm not saying everything is singing around a campfire, but there are genuine and kind ways to approach difficult conversations.
00:25:52 <sethsimmons> geonic: ?
00:26:02 <geonic> "entrapment"?
00:26:25 <geonic> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment
00:26:35 <sethsimmons> You recorded without consent and used leading questions with Diego, it was literally entrapment.
00:26:43 <geonic> bahaha. and you supported it.
00:26:47 <sethsimmons> That's not even the topic at hand but it's a reprehensible example of your approach.
00:26:57 <sethsimmons> geonic: No
00:27:03 <sethsimmons> I supported the issue itself.
00:27:05 <sethsimmons> Not the approach.
00:27:10 <geonic> ok. defended it?
00:27:22 <sethsimmons> I knew they were being recorded, no one else did.
00:27:26 <sethsimmons> I didn't know that at first.
00:27:34 <sethsimmons> I thought you had notified every speaker.
00:27:37 <geonic> it's a Chinese surveillance platform. please.
00:27:42 <sethsimmons> I made that clear as well, but nice try again :)
00:29:08 <sethsimmons> geonic: Even the Chinese don't stoop to your level most of the time :)
00:29:52 <geonic> lol. ok..
00:29:53 <sethsimmons> Claiming "you don't have privacy so I can record to knowingly use against you and use leading questions" is.. an interesting approach for someone supposedly pro-privacy and kind of sort of working on Monero.
00:30:22 <geonic> nice try to change the subject but let's stick to reddit please.
00:30:27 <geonic> or whatever this was about
00:30:28 <sethsimmons> lol
00:30:50 <sethsimmons> It's about your intentionally malicious and aggressive attacks across multiple platforms :)
00:30:58 <sethsimmons> I can keep reminding you if I need to.
00:31:20 <geonic> disliking me is not a good enough reason for a ban I'd say
00:31:27 <geonic> but let's see..
00:32:12 <sethsimmons> That is not my reason.
00:32:18 <sethsimmons> I have made that clear both publicly and privately.
00:32:38 <sethsimmons> I even told you to your face I was grateful for some of what you have done but asked you to consider more thoughtfully the way you go about things.
00:33:22 <geonic> that's not a warning btw. this is not the way bans are usually handed out, but you do you.
00:34:23 <sethsimmons> If a warning is decided on I will support it, but you have been warned many times in the past, but mostly unofficially.
00:34:41 <sethsimmons> Don't pretend like you don't know what you're doing.
00:34:49 <xmrscott[m]> Usually drivers aren't given a slap on the wrist when t-boning someone, but what do I know, I'm not a lawyer
00:35:04 <geonic> I'm having public debates with people? and that's suddenly reprehensible behavior
00:35:33 <plowsof[m]> geonic you're too good at what you do, congratulations
00:36:08 <plowsof[m]> you have ascended 
00:36:12 <geonic> plowsof[m]: I'm honestly flattered by all the attention being heaped on me, but I'm undeserving..
00:36:30 <UkoeHB> Lol all I’ll say is if you aren’t working for a TLA, they are probably studying your methods right now.
00:36:44 <sethsimmons> plowsof[m]: He is legitimately talented at manipulation.
00:36:51 <geonic> there he goes again accusing me of being a narc. DiegoSalazar[m], what were you saying?
00:37:11 <sethsimmons> It's sad to see, especially with how much obvious other talent he has.
00:37:21 <geonic> thanks, Seth. truly touched.
00:37:59 <sethsimmons> UkoeHB: Let's keep the baseless claims down, please.
00:38:19 <sethsimmons> I agree similar tactics would be an effective way of undermining Monero from within, as social attacks are the most likely to succeed, though.
00:38:33 <sethsimmons> But nothing to show that is true here of geonic, so lets not go there.
00:38:45 <xmrscott[m]> I'll say this, if you're on Matrix just /Ignore geo to save yourself some time, boost the signal to noise ratio, and let the hammer fall where it may, when it may
00:39:56 <geonic> xmrscott[m]: thank you. that's great advice for anyone suffering. /ignore works for a lot of IRC clients too
00:43:52 <sgp_[m]> You don't believe that for a second, re the way you addressed other bad tweets from people
00:44:47 <geonic> I did it with rotten recently and my life has improved tremendously. I would star in an infomercial about the /ignore command right now.
00:45:29 <UkoeHB> sethsimmons: I don’t necessarily believe he works for a TLA - the point must be made that TLAs use social attacks because they are effective. Rather than paranoia, it is with confidence and strong will that we should reject disingenuous behavior no matter where it comes from.
00:48:11 <dsc_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJDNkVDGM_s
00:54:10 <Torr> dsc_: Why was that seal swirling like that?
00:54:28 <geonic> he rick rolled us and bombed out
00:55:50 <geonic> I would wish some of the mods would watch that video though
00:56:40 <Torr> Dear me
01:08:24 <Torr> This reminded me of an old video with a little girl at a zoo gesturing to a sea lion, whom was mimicking her hand by opening his jaw.
01:16:08 <luigi1111w> what a driveby
01:25:52 <Torr> AAhhhaaaaaa
01:25:59 <Torr> Found it: https://monocles.live/watch?v=kqpL3PqIwmg
01:28:22 <geonic> lol seals are vicious
01:28:30 <geonic> ban that seal
01:41:43 <Torr> Come on, seals are cool.
02:11:36 <sudo_ki[m]> I can't believe I just read all that. 
02:17:11 <Torr> sudo_ki[m]: You are a speaking bag of meat sitted on a rock floating in the space, what's so unbelievable?
02:17:47 <crypto_grampy[m]> Are we really floating
02:18:03 <Torr> Dunno
02:18:37 <crypto_grampy[m]> The earth is pulled to it's cureent position almost like a strong magnet, right?  
02:18:58 <sudo_ki[m]> Careful. Baseless assumptions will not be tolerated in the monero community
02:19:40 <sudo_ki[m]> You will be prosecuted
02:19:46 <Torr> Lol
02:19:52 <crypto_grampy[m]> I think we should have more hug sessions
02:20:37 <crypto_grampy[m]> Would love to have some of you stop by the nursing home and just hang out  and go for a walk around the barbed wire perimeter
02:20:39 <sudo_ki[m]> Assanine, I'm leaving, here are my toys 
02:22:59 <Torr> crypto_grampy[m]: A real grampy, eh.
03:12:33 <geonic> sudo_ki[m]: no prosecution necessary. we’ll call the firing squad as we’re reading your rights.
05:01:44 <x3nu[m]> Just sold everything into zcash
05:02:34 <x3nu[m]> #compliance
08:40:32 <ComplyLast> <x3nu[m]> Just sold everything into zcash
08:40:33 <ComplyLast> <x3nu[m]> #compliance
08:40:42 <ComplyLast> always comply first. smart decision.
10:09:06 <muhkey> lol
11:08:47 <luigi1111> sir your name
11:45:30 <ComplyLast> my name is wrong ofc luigi1111, and it is a dumb name to begin with.
11:45:42 <ComplyLast> Compliance should be at the forefront of any decent human being ethos.
12:05:11 <ajs_[m]> @keiji.case:matrix.org I've added a matrix room for XMR.radio
12:05:26 <ajs_[m]> #xmr-radio:matrix.org
13:17:36 <ajs_[m]> luigi1111: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/165#note_11432
13:18:34 <luigi1111> I'm fine with waiting too if you want. maybe some other expense will come up? 
13:19:11 <ajs_[m]> i've paid for all expenses 1 year in advance
13:19:31 <ajs_[m]> and currently have $2k in reserve
13:21:03 <ajs_[m]> i don't foresee other expenses becoming an issue
13:22:42 <luigi1111> ok
13:26:07 <Torr> A Monero radio'd be nice.
13:26:29 <karce[m]> I didn't even know about it until right now.
13:27:23 <luigi1111> spend it all on advertising
13:34:56 <karce[m]> ajs_: You should commission a monero-chan animation loop like lofi girl then include that in the radio station.
13:35:10 <crypto_grampy[m]> karce[m]: Yes!!!
13:35:17 <ajs_[m]> lol
13:36:21 <ajs_[m]> Torr: karce https://xmr.radio
13:36:36 <crypto_grampy[m]> Throw on some droney music I can play bridge to with a cute lofi girlesque gif on repeat and I'd have this going all day
13:36:39 <crypto_grampy[m]> 🤣
13:37:05 <crypto_grampy[m]> * lofi girlesque monerochan gif on
13:37:34 <karce[m]> I'm there already Torr. Was weird to me it was only just the music player and nothing else. An lofi-girl esque animation would spruce the place up pretty well 😇
13:38:25 <karce[m]> s/I'm there already Torr. Was weird to me it was only just the music player and nothing else. An lofi-girl esque animation would spruce the place up pretty well 😇/I'm there already Torr. Was weird to me it was only just the music player and nothing else. A lofi-girl esque monero-chan animation would spruce the place up pretty well 😇/
13:38:26 <ajs_[m]> The site itself is on https://static.xmr.radio
13:43:07 <Torr> Nice!!!
13:43:19 <karce[m]> s/I'm there already Torr. Was weird to me it was only just the music player and nothing else. An lofi-girl esque animation would spruce the place up pretty well 😇/I'm there already. Was weird to me it was only just the music player and nothing else. A lofi-girl esque monero-chan animation would spruce the place up pretty well 😇/
13:53:33 <mechanic41turk[m> <karce[m]> "ajs_: You should commission a..." <- good idea
13:56:44 <karce[m]> It might not fit the same aesthetic you're going for ajs_, but idk I think a lot of the community would like it.
15:55:30 <sgp_[m]> ajs_ if you plan a radio event, I can promote it on Blockfolio. We haven't tried that yet
16:03:52 <ajs_[m]> sgp_: your song is now playing
16:04:31 <sgp_[m]> ajs_[m]: Haha that is an event indeed :p
16:08:11 <carrington[m]> Nice song SGP, didn't realize you could hit these notes
16:08:35 <carrington[m]> 🤭
16:12:59 <sgp_[m]> Haha ty ty
17:46:42 <ajs_[m]> anyone listening via Tor, the port has changed to: http://kxmrdbwcqbgyokjbiv7droplwhxvli3s7yv5xddxgrtajdpdebgzzzqd.onion:2014
19:39:23 <crypto_grampy[m]> karce:  mechanic41turk  ajs_  there are a couple that have cool 8bit style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6q5vdQMML0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H6_bcfts8g  ... Monerochan would look great in one of these :D 
20:32:42 <sudo_ki[m]> Last time things blew up with drama in here I jokingly recommended something called monero beefs. 
20:32:42 <sudo_ki[m]> After this last one, I want to recommended it seriously. A weekly slot to air beef in an informal way and anything with merit could be taken forwards in an appropriate way. 
20:35:47 <sudo_ki[m]> We already have scepticism Sundays, but I'm not sure it's appropriate
20:45:48 <crypt0_bear[m]> <ajs_[m]> "anyone listening via Tor, the..." <- I know I could just have vlc or mpv with local tor as a proxy. Is there a goto client for streaming via tor?  
20:50:52 <crypt0_bear[m]> > <@sudo_ki:matrix.org> Last time things blew up with drama in here I jokingly recommended something called monero beefs. 
20:50:52 <crypt0_bear[m]> > After this last one, I want to recommended it seriously. A weekly slot to air beef in an informal way and anything with merit could be taken forwards in an appropriate way.
20:50:52 <crypt0_bear[m]> "yo mama is sooo fat her ring signature algo is triptych" 
21:21:10 <geonic> Hey, I’ve been standing by the pit here for a day but no shots have been fired. Doesn’t an attempted public execution deserve a public conclusion?
21:24:38 <sudo_ki[m]> s/recommended/recommend/
21:29:43 <geonic> Guess not. Oh well, I think I’ll go home now. My grandmother had a saying for this kind of thing. “Measure twice, cut once”, she said. Good advice.
21:32:03 <sudo_ki[m]> Should we kick it off seeing as you're here?? XD
21:32:29 <sudo_ki[m]> There has to be one rule. You only get one
21:32:46 <sudo_ki[m]> No, and a another thing and another thing
21:32:53 <geonic> sudo_ki[m] :P too many holy cows around to speak about any beef IMO
21:33:23 <sudo_ki[m]> Ah come on, give it a go
21:40:02 <sgp_[m]> > <@sudo_ki:matrix.org> Last time things blew up with drama in here I jokingly recommended something called monero beefs. 
21:40:02 <sgp_[m]> > After this last one, I want to recommend it seriously. A weekly slot to air beef in an informal way and anything with merit could be taken forwards in an appropriate way. 
21:40:02 <sgp_[m]> Do you have any example of this actually working somewhere? Seems like a bad idea probably
21:41:02 <sgp_[m]> Some of the people I have beef with have DM'd me faggot, so I'm not sure a weekly free shot thing would cover that
21:42:42 <sgp_[m]> Nor would they cover death threats
21:42:54 <sgp_[m]> So I think this very much misses the point
21:43:32 <sgp_[m]> If it was a friendly jest thing with people you are on terms with, that's something else
21:44:41 <sudo_ki[m]> sgp_[m]: I'm not sure 'free shot' is an appropriate way to look at it. It's my opinion that it's use case is to be constructive, to minimise dirty laundry and to make headroom in bringing people together instead of driving them apart 
21:44:45 <XMR2020> Beefs can be debated. With structure and moderation, and participants following rules. An internet free for all is a really bad idea. As you allude to
21:46:54 <sudo_ki[m]> sgp_[m]: I think that where there are beefs, if given the floor to actually air them, it will most likely give that person a chance to construct an argument, instead of behaving in a reactionary way. 
21:48:23 <sgp_[m]> XMR2020: I agree differing opinions can and should be debated if both sides act in good faith
21:48:30 <sgp_[m]> If someone's just there for ammo I'll pass
21:49:01 <sudo_ki[m]> I think insults or name calling should result in punishment
21:49:01 <sgp_[m]> We have seen plenty of those types (eg: fuk)
21:49:56 <sudo_ki[m]> sgp_[m]: What do you mean, there for ammo?
21:50:21 <XMR2020> sudo_ki: Ad Hominems are just ceeding victory to your opponent
21:51:33 <sgp_[m]> sudo_ki[m]: There are sooo many people out there who "just want to chat about things in a civil way" but that's not really true in some important way. I can't recall the term for it but there is a common one
21:51:46 <carrington[m]> Doug's proposal is now in the Funding Required stage!
21:51:46 <carrington[m]> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/DTuman_6months_full-time_on_monero-projects.html
21:52:03 <sudo_ki[m]> Everyone would see it, and we'd move on, easy
21:52:07 <sgp_[m]> > <@carrington:monero.social> Doug's proposal is now in the Funding Required stage!
21:52:07 <sgp_[m]> > 
21:52:07 <sgp_[m]> > https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/DTuman_6months_full-time_on_monero-projects.html
21:52:07 <sgp_[m]> Awesome!
21:52:39 <selsta> having one proposal for 6 months is risky, especially when quitting day job
21:52:43 <selsta> hope he knows what he is doing
21:52:50 <carrington[m]> sgp_[m]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
21:53:15 <sgp_[m]> Yes that
21:53:16 <chamus_> What would be the safer alternative to 6 months?
21:54:11 <sgp_[m]> Can sometimes be thought of as a leading question maybe
21:54:25 <carrington[m]> The proposal seems to suggest he is quitting his day job completely
21:55:45 <geonic> A few people have brought that up to him and he’s aware of the risks…
21:56:10 <sudo_ki[m]> Right, i got you. That's not what in have in mind.
21:56:10 <sudo_ki[m]> Let's say i take my turn, it should sound something like this: this week, my beef is with Mr galaxy player, he user the word champion too many times I'm a short space of time 
21:56:16 <sgp_[m]> carrington[m]: Yeah I believe he is
21:56:22 <selsta> if prices dumps 50% he will have half salary for half a year
21:56:34 <selsta> I mean that's obvious but some don't think about it
21:56:52 <sudo_ki[m]> s/user/used/, s/I'm/in/
21:58:08 <carrington[m]> If he has been planning this for some time (seems so), then I hope he would have saved up some fiat reserves to fund living expenses for that period of time
21:59:09 <selsta> hopefully :)
22:01:09 <nioc> well he is marketing so ofc price to the moon
22:06:23 <sudo_ki[m]> <sgp_[m]> "> <@sudo_ki:matrix.org> Last..." <- I have no clue, by what metric you should measure the success of something like this. But I for one want to see less mindless shit slinging
22:07:35 <sgp_[m]> normally that's what moderation is for
22:07:46 <carrington[m]> And downvotes
22:17:13 <selsta> voting can be manipulated on reddit
22:21:49 <sudo_ki[m]>  So in the case of geoincs reddit post, we have 200+ upvotes and a load of crap in the comments. 
22:21:49 <sudo_ki[m]> Personally, I would have preferred geonic to bring it up as a beef which could have sounded like: my beef this week is with sarang, I believe monero is suffering due to his work on competing tech. (Geonic, didn't mean to speak for you, I'm sure you wouldn't agree with what I've said)
22:22:49 <sudo_ki[m]> In come sarang, or not, makes his reply... Done
22:22:56 <sudo_ki[m]> s/come/comes/
22:23:19 <sudo_ki[m]> It shouldn't be more complicated
22:24:15 <Rucknium[m]> Instead of bottling up your anger, let it out maybe?
22:24:47 <Chamus> I'm all for Monero's beef-airing Wednesdays
22:24:52 <geonic> Yeah that’s far from my beef. Here it is. My beef this week is with the MRL who have been sitting on their hands, praying and worshipping a stray cow that has been grazing in foreign pastures for the past year instead of trying to find a replacement.
22:25:13 <Chamus> True
22:25:16 <geonic> and then comes the PERMABAN!
22:25:23 <sgp_[m]> lmao what have you done to find expertise
22:25:56 <geonic> I will try and help the MRL. The first step is to recognize that they need help.
22:26:00 <sgp_[m]> why shouldn't I be parading around saying you are "grazing in foreign pastures"
22:26:24 <sgp_[m]> yeah I'm not taking the bait today, peace all
22:26:38 <geonic> Unwanted help is of little effect as I hope you’ve noticed.
22:28:29 <sgp_[m]> I won't be in this channel at all if it's just a bunch of this
22:28:35 <sudo_ki[m]> Nononon, you're going wrong
22:28:37 <sudo_ki[m]> Stop stop stop
22:28:41 <geonic> I mean, as a failed candidate to Champion the MRL.. :)
22:29:05 <sudo_ki[m]> sgp_[m]: You shouldn't reply with a question
22:29:28 <sudo_ki[m]> It's a recipe for disaster 
22:30:18 <geonic> And now as a failed permabanner. Double whammy.
22:31:28 <sudo_ki[m]> You're reply could have sounded like. We've been struggling to find a solution and we're trying our best
22:31:28 <sudo_ki[m]> Easy no?
22:31:37 <carrington[m]> geonic: You keep picking on this comment as if saying he would like to champion MRL (I.e. offering more of his time to herd the cats) is a bad thing...
22:31:57 <Rucknium[m]> <sgp_[m]> "lmao what have you done to..." <- Tomorrow I plan to write up a sketch of an active recruitment plan and post to Reddit.
22:32:14 <geonic> carrington[m]: it’s not a bad thing. I’m pointing out that his help was refused. So him lecturing me to try and offer my help to MRL in the same way he did is kind of a non-starter.
22:32:17 <sudo_ki[m]> Amazing!
22:32:57 <geonic> Alright, peace all. Enjoy your Labor day if you’re celebrating.
22:33:10 <sudo_ki[m]> Peace
22:33:27 <Rucknium[m]> Rucknium[m]: I can help carry out the plan, but I cannot spearhead it since I am allocating my labor to other high-impact work.
22:35:38 <Rucknium[m]> BTW, the conversations that started here are already bearing some fruit. Stay tuned for some preliminary conclusions soon. (Other community members have taken on the lion's share of the work):
22:35:38 <Rucknium[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/pe4qto/transaction_volume_is_back_to_normal/ 
22:39:47 <midipoet> The problem, as i see it, is not with lack of leadership for MRL (though a research lead/head of lab would be nice), it's that the market for cryptocurrency research is so lucrative, so it's broken the social contract and replaced it with (dear I say it) a capitalist/economically practical one. 
22:40:05 <midipoet> The space's ideology died about five years ago. 
22:40:20 <midipoet> The MRL is just a symptom.
22:40:34 <Rucknium[m]> Not everyone is motivated by money
22:40:48 <midipoet> That's what I used to think
22:41:05 <midipoet> But it only takes the majority to be, for the ideology to break
22:41:13 <Rucknium[m]> If I were motivated by money, I might be working for CipherTrace right now.
22:41:33 <midipoet> I would hazard a guess Monero people have already worked for ciphertrace
22:41:41 <midipoet> And elliptic
22:41:49 <Rucknium[m]> midipoet: I don't see that. You don't need an ideology per se. Just need individuals acting autonomously.
22:42:12 <Chamus> the monero code is the ideology
22:42:18 <midipoet> People acting autonomously generally don't have ideology
22:42:24 <midipoet> And it becomes a shit show
22:43:30 <Rucknium[m]> You just need a few good people working on Monero. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing.
22:43:31 <midipoet> Chamus: code is code. There ain't anything gregariously special about Monero's code. You could find beauty and worth in the code of a host of other projects
22:44:09 <midipoet> Rucknium[m]: sure, I agree. 
22:44:47 <midipoet> But that doesn't mean the few good people are here, nor does it mean they'll stay, and nor does it mean they know what the fuck needs to be done  
22:44:59 <sudo_ki[m]> <Chamus> "I'm all for Monero's beef-airing..." <- I'll aim to host it next week. I think today was a successful trial, geonic thanks for being the first ;)
22:45:18 <sudo_ki[m]> * I'll aim to host it next week. I think today was a successful trial, geonic  thanks for being the first ;)
22:46:35 <Rucknium[m]> You do need a minimum level of expertise in certain areas to know what needs to be done and what sort of talent needs to be recruited, sure. Right now the three areas off the top of my head are computer science, cryptography, and statistics.
22:46:36 <Rucknium[m]> >nor does it mean they know what the fuck needs to be done
22:46:46 <geonic> sudo_ki[m]: :)
22:47:18 <Rucknium[m]> There is no reason to be pessimistic when the Monero Project apparently hasn't attempted active recruitment of talent in quite some time.
22:47:50 <Chamus> Also when the talent needs are not great
22:48:38 <Chamus> Two Quants with similar profiles to Sarang, and two good C++ devs to polish the code and make it more apy friendly and whatever else it's needed
22:48:45 <Chamus> and that is a giant step already
22:49:12 <Chamus> is quite doable really
22:50:39 <Chamus> <sudo_ki[m]> "I'll aim to host it next week" <- You are not only a visionary but also a man of action, I see :p
22:50:52 <Rucknium[m]> Chamus: Maybe slightly more than that, but not a huge amount more than that.
22:52:39 <Rucknium[m]> The Monero community also needs to be willing to shell out XMR for the talent, which I think it is willing to do so. A bit hard to tell, since contributions to the CCS are super-private after all. It's a bit easier to see the sustainability of funding in the BCH community since Flipstarter contributors usually identify themselves.
22:53:00 <Chamus> There are vehicles man
22:53:20 <geonic> Rucknium[m]: I think sustainability can be judged by average donation amount, which you can publicly gather.
22:53:40 <Rucknium[m]> geonic: Yes, that is on my TODO list
22:53:51 <geonic> a few whales have saved our butts so far. community needs to step up more.
22:54:30 <Chamus> I think people genuinely enjoyed donating for Sarang's research
22:54:38 <geonic> yep
22:54:56 <Chamus> I don't wanna sound too cynical
22:55:24 <Chamus> but it would be great two fiend great talent that is also great a fund raising to work on Monero full time
22:55:34 <Chamus> :p
22:56:10 <Chamus> it would be great to find great*
22:56:42 <geonic> I think the consistency in reporting and availability for community Q&A created the goodwill you describe. it has to be one of the desired candidate characteristics in any future recruiting efforts.
22:57:13 <geonic> I'm really out this time. later.
23:00:35 <AdamWilliams[m]> Hi I'm completely new to this and looking to get started. Can anyone help me out or point me in the right direction?
23:02:24 <carrington[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "The Monero community also..." <- https://www.kraken.com/en-us/features/grants
23:02:24 <carrington[m]> AdamWilliams[m]: What are you looking to start doing? I'm guessing "this" in your comment means Monero
23:03:22 <Chamus> <geonic> "it has to be one of the desired candidate characteristics in any future recruiting efforts" <- Agree 100%
23:03:47 <bob99[m]> AdamWilliams[m]: https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/what-is-monero/
23:04:13 <AdamWilliams[m]> carrington[m]: Yes, looking to start mining.
23:06:06 <sudo_ki[m]> AdamWilliams[m]: https://matrix.to/#/!PJbChmvrdCUbExemPH:matrix.org?via=matrix.org&via=t2bot.io&via=kde.org
23:06:28 <carrington[m]> AdamWilliams[m]: The Monero mining subreddit is probably your vest destination
23:06:56 <bob99[m]> AdamWilliams[m]: https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/mining/
23:07:34 <bob99[m]> #xmrmine:matrix.org
23:07:57 <Rucknium[m]> Chamus: Soon I will submit a research CCS. I agree that this is somewhat important and I am willing to do it. One caveat is that people must recognize that the answers to certain questions should remain under-wraps for the sake of user privacy.
23:14:23 <Rucknium[m]> The CCS will be to execute this, in part:
23:14:24 <Rucknium[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/86#issuecomment-905800761
23:23:11 <Chamus> So much entrepreneurship in this community! ;)