00:13:48 <rehrar> geonic: incorrect, I worked for Core half time at that time
00:14:39 <rehrar> So half of Kovri work (which wasn't counted as core hours ever) took me up to full time work on Monero in some capacity.
00:16:12 <rehrar> I also don't get why I'm still the scapegoat. It's me that ripped people off for some reason instead of Core who thought it was a good arrangement for years?
00:23:55 <luigi1111> I want the blame card
00:26:54 <geonic> rehrar: you keep track of your hours with a chronometer so I'm sure you'd know best
00:29:33 <luigi1111> guys we have new drama now. this old drama is so passé
00:30:21 <crypto_grampy[m]> luigi1111: GET ME THROUGH TO THE CEO OF MONERO NOW.  I"M PISSED OFF AND I WANT MY MONEY BACK
00:31:06 <luigi1111> I'll call primer-
00:32:40 <geonic> all these streaming services were adding up. irc cheaper
00:32:59 <rupee[m]> The point is not how much i made, point is fluffy did this on purpose, more than 10 people were in on it. His commit access needs to be revoked asap!
00:33:22 <geonic> :D
00:33:46 <luigi1111> he finally has his wish 
00:33:59 <luigi1111> for the time being anyway
00:34:04 <geonic> wait who wished for that
00:34:23 <geonic> this could be the topic of a whole new episode
00:34:24 <luigi1111> primer demanded it rather than wished ok
00:34:36 <geonic> oh damn missed that
00:35:09 <nioc> sre you new here?
00:35:25 <nioc> *are
00:35:25 <geonic> yes I just got here and they're already banning me
00:36:27 <luigi1111> not yet. soon
00:36:52 <geonic> ™
04:48:49 <crypto_grampy[m]> karce: mechanic41turk ajs_ / anyone else.  FYI there is a 'Lofi Girl Animation' now up on the 'Monero Art' commission list over at https://moneroart.neocities.org/  .  This gif will be available for xmr.radio and anyone else to freely use.  Send donations! plowsof did the cool progress bars that automagically track donations.  
04:49:04 <crypto_grampy[m]> and yes, i already donated
04:49:56 <crypto_grampy[m]> s/karce: mechanic41turk ajs_ / anyone else.  FYI there is a 'Lofi Girl Animation' now up on the 'Monero Art' commission list over at https://moneroart.neocities.org/  .  This gif will be available for xmr.radio and anyone else to freely use.  Send donations! plowsof did the cool progress bars that automagically track donations./karce: mechanic41turk ajs_ / anyone else.  FYI there is a 'Lofi Girl Animation' now up on the 'XMR
04:49:56 <crypto_grampy[m]> Community Art Fund' commission list over at https://moneroart.neocities.org/  .  This gif will be available for xmr.radio and anyone else to freely use.  Send donations! plowsof did the cool progress bars that automagically track donations./
05:04:23 <crypto_grampy[m]> <crypto_grampy[m]> "karce: mechanic41turk ajs_..." <- aaaanndd it's funded!  Thanks Anon!!! https://twitter.com/XMRArtFund/status/1435466547288416258?s=20
05:05:00 <ajs_[m]> oh wow
05:05:02 <ajs_[m]> what just about to tweet link
05:11:56 <ajs_[m]> I made a ELI5 guide on streaming XMR.radio with Torsocks https://xmr.radio/listen-to-xmr-radio-with-torsocks
08:52:58 <plowsof[m]> <crypto_grampy[m]> "karce: mechanic41turk ajs_..." <- Im so happy to be helping with this project, its different, and a really nice addition to the Monero ecosystem! If there are any other projects out there who want a ccs style wishlist, it's all here, and easy to integrate as its just a json array your site can fetch https://github.com/plowsof/xmr-wishlist-aaS https://github.com/plowsof/xmr-wishlist-aaS 🥰
12:08:10 <karce[m]> <plowsof[m]> "Im so happy to be helping with..." <- Yoo nice! That was so fast. Great!
12:18:07 <karce[m]> <crypto_grampy[m]> "karce: mechanic41turk ajs_..." <- Thanks for pushing this gramps. That art fund has some really good stuff coming out of it. I would honestly expect high quality animation to cost more than 1 xmr though.
12:25:10 <ct[m]> it's funded with 2.05 XMR already. this is only visible in the view only wallet, online the difference is counted towards the general fund
13:44:04 <ajs_[m]> s/what/was/
15:54:48 <sgp_[m]> moving forward on this Monero Codenames idea this Friday: https://forum.monero.space/d/103-monero-codenames-this-friday-2021-09-10
16:37:14 <anhdres[m]> ajs_: hey can it be that the tor link is not working?
16:38:50 <ajs_[m]> address changed for stream
16:39:00 <ajs_[m]> http://kxmrdbjc4lglq54w5eozi4wqpcg6c7ddf2mbzxj4vhbkukcnyfkmp3qd.onion
16:42:40 <Rucknium[m]> I'll post my half-baked active MRL recruitment "proposal" on Reddit within an hour. (This is mostly just a commitment device so that I stop fiddling with the draft and just post it.)
16:48:18 <crypto_grampy[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "I'll post my half-baked active..." <- Looking forward to this!
16:52:06 <anhdres[m]> <ajs_[m]> "address changed for stream" <- woking perfectly on tor browser now, thanks
16:53:10 <ajs_[m]> anhdres: should also work with torsocks https://xmr.radio/listen-to-xmr-radio-with-torsocks
16:55:42 <anhdres[m]> ajs_[m]: yeah, but don't tell anyone, I use windows!
16:57:02 <ajs_[m]> lol
16:57:32 <ajs_[m]> as long as you are still rocking windows xp
17:00:36 <anhdres[m]> ajs_[m]: I'm a windows 2000 guy
18:13:28 <geonic> Vista ftw
18:22:49 <Rucknium[m]> OK! Here's my "proposal" for active recruitment of technical talent. Only half an hour "late":
18:22:49 <Rucknium[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/pkg3d6/the_monero_project_should_actively_recruit/
18:41:41 <endogenic> i dig it
18:41:49 <endogenic> the RFP concept - it will be of sustained value
18:42:33 <endogenic> haha i love your comment too
18:43:24 <Rucknium[m]> Everything is going to hell. The only thing missing from this reality is the spinal plug-ins.
18:48:59 <endogenic> oh, we have those
18:49:08 <endogenic> spike protein is a 5g antenna of course
20:04:11 <geonic> comes bundled with Windows ME (Pfizer) or Vista (Moderna)
20:30:05 <endogenic> all of which have the non-rich-person kill switch from bill gates
20:36:02 <geonic> yes
20:37:14 <geonic> poor Matrix users must think you're talking to yourself. the consequences of a censorship bubble...
20:40:17 <geonic> just preface with geonic: I guess
20:42:12 <endogenic> geonic: oh, indeed?
20:48:13 <luigi1111w> moderation*
21:37:59 <endogenic> lol
21:45:31 <geonic> moderation is so hard. unless you've decked the halls with your own mods
21:49:24 <geonic> or was it stacked the deck? yeah that's better
21:53:52 <Chamus> <Rucknium[m]> "https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/pkg3d6/the_monero_project_should_actively_recruit/" <- I saw your proposal man
21:54:01 <Chamus> And it looks really good
21:55:13 <Chamus> The feedback I could provide is I notice you are a bit overly optimistic about people being actually willing to get paid in Monero, but then again our talent needs are not great so we might be lucky to find some true believers to come work for the cause
21:56:04 <Chamus> Regarding the part of candidates being able to remain anonymous, it will be a bit tough
21:57:50 <Chamus> because how do you know who are you contacting for sure, how do you confirm their backgrounds beyond what they tell you in two or three interviews, even if those interviews are really hard to fake
21:58:18 <Chamus> You can't asses the background of anonymous people
21:59:22 <Chamus> And then finally, as you mentioned your approach is not targeted so it will likely get us "whatever" talent
21:59:26 <Chamus> At least in my experience
22:00:40 <Chamus> Your approach and your expertise on what tickles scholars is super useful to the cause to be honest
22:00:57 <Chamus> Let me know if I can help with anything related to your proposal!
22:04:42 <Rucknium[m]> Chamus: I think that pseudonymity is still feasible if we just stick with the CCS process of rendering payment after work has been completed. That way, if someone is bluffing on their capabilities somehow, it doesn't matter because they won't be able to deliver, in reality, and therefore won't get paid.
22:04:47 <nioc> fully funded https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/xmrsale-2021.html
22:06:24 <Chamus> Wait
22:06:26 <Rucknium[m]> As far as help: I cannot and will not spearhead the execution of this proposal or one like it. I am doing a lot already. However, I can for sure continue to shape it and work on targeting things like the Request For Proposal language for statistics and economic/game theory. I cannot do the cryptography one, though.
22:06:33 <Chamus> You want people to get paid after they finish work?
22:06:44 <Chamus> That's gonna be a super tough sell man
22:07:18 <Chamus> Let's see, let me know if I can helo with anything
22:07:22 <Rucknium[m]> My understanding is that that is how CCS has always worked, so apparently it is not a tough sell to anyone who has been funded by the CCS mechanism,
22:07:34 <Chamus> I am sure I can learn a lot from you
22:07:49 <Rucknium[m]> I mean, you do have intermediate milestones for which you can get paid for CCS work
22:07:50 <Chamus> But taht is the problem
22:08:05 <Chamus> Our star full time contributor hated that arrangement
22:08:21 <Chamus> Let's fix that for the coming talent ;)
22:09:30 <Rucknium[m]> Ok, so people have options. Don't be anon and you can be paid up-front in fiat. Stay anon and you can be paid after delivery with XMR. It depends on how important pseudonymity is to potential recruits. I think they should have that option, even if it has some costs.
22:09:33 <selsta> milestones does not work for research really
22:09:42 <selsta> often you produce nothing
22:09:50 <Chamus> Exactly
22:10:20 <Rucknium[m]> selsta: But you do produce a paper trail of your attempt, for sure.
22:10:35 <Rucknium[m]> Which is verifiable
22:11:50 <Rucknium[m]> For mainstream research grants, there are almost always reporting requirements, anyway. Regardless of whether the research ultimately was a dead end.
22:23:15 <Rucknium[m]> I have an undisclosed amount of experience with writing research grants to mainstream funding sources and let me tell you, it sucks. Everything about the process sucks. I would suggest that as much as possibly we completely sidestep any university institutional processes and instead make direct payments to individuals.
22:23:57 <Rucknium[m]> Writing my Flipstarter for BCH was a huge breath of fresh air. Easiest research grant ever:
22:23:57 <Rucknium[m]> https://flipstarter.redteam.cash/
22:25:54 <Rucknium[m]> So another advantage the Monero Project can offer is to not deal with all the institutional bureaucracy that drags down the research process. I put a link in the Reddit post about the current state of affairs with respect to mainstream research grants.
23:03:25 <sgp_[m]> Fwiw, when MAGIC started, Brandon was extremely into the idea of funding graduate students to do cryptocurrency research and privacy research (not exclusively for Monero, but Monero was a big part of the goals)
23:03:49 <sgp_[m]> He reached out to dozens of different departments and used all the contacts he could to get in the door with people
23:04:06 <sgp_[m]> He tried to look into funding outside the university to prevent their cut, or to work around it
23:05:07 <sgp_[m]> Sadly, the aspirations we're WAY too large at the time for a brand new org, and MAGIC ended up completely scaling back all graduate grants at the time, after nothing really materialized despite enormous effort by Brandon
23:05:39 <sgp_[m]> He definitely made some promising inroads, but we weren't equipped to handle them. Some of the inroads would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a year
23:06:34 <sgp_[m]> Ultimately, Brandon got burned out and left this project he, which is far too much for one person only, and the mantle hasn't been properly picked up since
23:07:56 <sgp_[m]> I'm glad there is renewed interest, but realize that this is an absolutely enormous project that requires research and uni contacts, much more funding than you would expect even on the low end, and they strongly prefer to talk to stable orgs
23:09:55 <sgp_[m]> There are definitely smaller ways to conduct recruiting outreach, and I recommend starting with the easiest stuff. Sometimes even getting Monero's name in the door is valuable
23:10:52 <sgp_[m]> s/he//
23:22:08 <Rucknium[m]> sgp_: Thanks a lot for the historical background. I have two main related thoughts:
23:22:09 <Rucknium[m]> 1) What you said makes me lean more toward an extra-institutional approach. So we target:
23:26:35 <Rucknium[m]> a) Grad students (Master's but especially PhD) who are facing gaps in funding. They might not have research or teaching funding for the summer. Instead, work for Monero! Even some Post-docs face funding gaps, probably.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c184c98548c074290ad937a3462ef0c8dc31097a)
23:29:25 <Rucknium[m]> 2) I think Monero and other POW coins without a founder's reward should really not be funding "basic research"  or open-ended scholarships for education. Monero doesn't have money to burn. I know MAGIC does that for undergrads, but graduate students are different. I mean basic research in the technical sense. Zcash, premined, ICO coins that have war chests can do that. (And I actually looked into Zcash for funding for some "basic
23:29:25 <Rucknium[m]> research" about the economic issues internal and external to cryptocurrencies, but turns out they require KYC for their grants **for a privacy coin!**)
23:34:10 <sgp_[m]> Yeah it's an IRS thing