03:33:22 <entry1[m]> GG boys
03:55:32 <gingeropolous> "The Zcash investors need to know who are the bad actors."
03:55:39 <gingeropolous> iiinnnnnnvvvveeeessssstttooooooors
03:56:04 <gingeropolous> crikey such drama
03:56:38 <gingeropolous> "Zcash investors deserves TRANSPARENCY about the shenanigans that are going on. "
03:56:51 <gingeropolous> gimme an IN. gimme a VEST. gimme an ORS
03:56:59 <gingeropolous> what does that spell?
03:57:17 <gingeropolous> missing the point is what it spells
04:06:44 <Rucknium[m]> I am trying to convince them to drop KYC for their grants program. They have a ton of money sloshing around and not much to spend it on:
04:06:44 <Rucknium[m]> https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/truly-pseudonymous-contributors-zomg/39992/35?u=rucknium
08:40:36 <wfaressuissia> It's funny to call paid work "contribution".
08:48:22 <wfaressuissia> It disqualifies work of those who mad real contribution without any direct financial compensation.
09:05:50 <msvb-lab> wfaressuissia: Maybe we should more carefully form language like we donate (free of payment), contribute (possible payment), supply (with payment) work?
09:06:10 <msvb-lab> I could be wrong about that, so maybe there is a better solution.
10:00:09 <Chamus> Rucknium[m]> "I am trying to convince them to drop KYC for their grants program" - I think the same think applies with Zcash, or almost anyone for that matter, you're unlikely to hire or award grants to anonymous talent, because it would be close to impossible to asses their background with certainty
10:02:10 <wfaressuissia> proof of work breaks any boundaries, no need for any assessments of previous achievements
10:02:47 <Chamus> Revolutionary point of view for the recruitment industry the one you have ;)
10:03:17 <Chamus> "Past performance is the best predictor of future performance" and all
14:11:02 <carrington[m]> Monerotopia is live:
14:11:02 <carrington[m]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69GXuf_mfr8
14:12:12 <Rucknium[m]> Chamus: No need to assess background if they have laid some groundwork whose quality you can ascertain. I was funded for 18 BCH within 48 hours of my proposal going live based on a janky website and a pseudonym created only a couple of months ago:
14:12:12 <Rucknium[m]> https://flipstarter.redteam.cash/
14:12:38 <Rucknium[m]> Chamus: Set up a repeated game. I feel that your perspective is blinkered.
14:18:03 <Chamus> <Rucknium[m]> "No need to assess background if they have laid some groundwork whose quality you can ascertain" <- Even if that might work a few times is not sustainable, really
14:18:17 <Chamus> Doing that is a lot more likely to scores mediocre talent than top talent
14:18:54 <Chamus> But let's see, as I said it all depends on our talent needs. The most urgent thing is to define them exactly. 
14:21:40 <Chamus> "One great engineer is worth 100 average ones" they say
14:21:48 <Chamus> And it is true
14:25:05 <Rucknium[m]> Mostly we are not looking for engineers. We have some great coders already. We need people on the cryptography and statistics.
14:25:17 <Chamus> Applies to most everything
14:26:40 <Chamus> Your approach is unviable (does not solve the issue with Sarang), untargeted, and likely to score mediocre talent, while my is descentralised., sustainable, targeted and geared inyo attracting top talent systematically
14:27:28 <Rucknium[m]> I am as good as Sarang, but on the statistics side. If my approach self-recruits me, how is it unviable?
14:27:38 <Chamus> You are one persone
14:27:40 <Chamus> Think scale
14:27:51 <Chamus> We got lucky with you :)
14:28:00 <Chamus> Anyway you will see
14:28:06 <Chamus> I will hold with my proposal
14:28:34 <Chamus> If alternative proposals do not work, I'll offer again
14:37:28 <Halver[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "Mostly we are not looking for..." <- Would it be possible (for you or other concerned people) to describe some of the Monero problems where statistics could help ?
14:39:33 <Rucknium[m]> Halver: This may surprise you, but part of Monero's privacy model relies upon resistance to statistical attack. In fact, the untraceability completely breaks down if the statistical defenses are configured poorly, as explained in Moser et al. (2018), "An Empirical Analysis of Traceability in the Monero Blockchain" :
14:39:33 <Rucknium[m]> https://www.sciendo.com/article/10.1515/popets-2018-0025
14:40:29 <Rucknium[m]> jberman lays out specific, large areas that statistics will help here. I am working on #3 in particular:
14:40:29 <Rucknium[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/86
14:41:47 <Rucknium[m]> Halver: Given that Monero's privacy model relies heavily on resistance to statistical attack, it should be alarming to you that no qualified statisticians have reviewed it.
14:42:56 <Rucknium[m]> Or, more specifically, no statisticians who are trying to protect, not destroy, Monero users' privacy have reviewed it. Until recently when I started examining it a month or so ago, with jberman's assistance.
14:44:26 <Rucknium[m]> Monero's "statistical attack surface" is quite large, so the number of tasks delegated to "data scientists" and the like are almost endless.
14:47:10 <Rucknium[m]> Note that what was discovered in Moser et al. (2018) is not quite so concerning since they suggested a fix that substantially reduced the discoverability of the "true spends". However, that fix had flaws of its own. I have developed an outline of a technique to rectify the flaws in the Moser et al. (2018) suggestion that is what the Monero code currently uses
14:49:20 <Rucknium[m]> * "suggestion, _which_ is what the Monero code currently uses."
14:58:02 <Rucknium[m]> The fact that I am preparing a submission to the Monero Vulnerability Response Process might also alarm you.
14:58:14 <Rucknium[m]> The Monero Project needs help!
14:59:12 <Rucknium[m]> I see a lot of complacency and overconfidence among the Monero userbase that is simply not warranted. The good news is that a lot of issues can be addressed, with sufficient technical talent, I think.
15:01:40 <Halver[m]> Thanks for your answer Rucknium , I'll read the links you mentioned.
15:01:52 <Halver[m]> s/answer/answers/
19:11:23 <sudo_ki[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "I see a lot of complacency and..." <- It always amuses me that other techs are full of shills, and monero is not
19:30:21 <xmrscott[m]> FYI to Matrix users out there to watch out for a client update Monday. https://mastodon.matrix.org/@matrix/106908345548037377
22:12:00 <XMR-Bets> Hello guys, I would like to present you a lottery based on Monero and ask about your thoughts. There is a lot to say about it so I'm preparing a post on reddit. Please feel free to interact with it already and tell me what you think ;)  <-> www.xmr-bets.com 
22:53:03 <spackle[m]> Just wanted to share that Douglas Tuman's CCS is now less than 12 XMR from being fully funded. Very cool to see how quickly this (and everything else in the CCS) is getting support: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/DTuman_6months_full-time_on_monero-projects.html
23:04:06 <entry1[m]> I hope that doesn't damper people wanting to volunteer to the project after seeing that type of money fly, but that is great to see the generosity of the community to raise $70,000 for Doug. Thank you to all the developers as well for your hard work.