00:57:36 jberman just released his first progress update! 🎉 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/249#note_11480 03:45:00 :).... 08:18:25 The work of jberman[m]'s decoy research is quite nice. I don't understand the part about needing to ask MyMonero developers what is in the code or not. 08:19:04 Is there still a good reason to close access to MyMonero components? Isn't this (fostering collaboration and reducing vulnerabilities) the main reason for projects to open access to source and design? 11:19:14 https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/ransomware-encrypts-south-africas-entire-dept-of-justice-network/ 11:19:30 Anyone know when fluffy will be released if South African government doesn't send necessary documents? 11:24:34 selsta I saw September 19th somewhere on reddit 11:25:28 https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.tnmd.87126/gov.uscourts.tnmd.87126.17.0.pdf has two dates, September 19th and October 19th, don't understand the legal text exactly which one is relevant 11:26:04 but it would be interesting if South African government can't send documents in time now 11:29:09 very convenient timing and target of the attack... 11:29:10 jk 11:29:46 :D 16:22:15 Remember that we have a Monero Meet this Saturday :) 16:30:49 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/607 16:35:53 Location Libera.chat, #monero-space | Matrix <<>> irc? really? 16:36:20 I will be traveling 19:38:06 https://www.rt.com/usa/fbi-exploiting-tor-child-porn-842/ 19:40:50 The "child porn" is clickbait, this is about freedom hosting 20:29:11 That's a very old story, from 2013 old. W/ the owner of the business ultimately pleading guilty last year. Has little to no bearing for -community 23:09:59 msvb-mob: what's closed source is the server implementation, which includes where decoy outs are selected. decoy/random outs selection code of course should to be factored out of wallet2 so that it can be shared amongst implementations 23:10:03 -to 23:13:03 it's being said that "partners" are in control of the company right now but i should make it clear and say that is not the case. i can no longer vouch for who has access to that hosting 23:15:09 it's also clear they're, oddly enough, spreading falsehoods on twitter now about the levels of privacy the system guarantees 23:15:15 my access was revoked 23:15:28 it would be valuable to ask why 23:15:52 endogenic: What's the twitter account name? 23:16:07 i'm talking about the company mymonero 23:17:29 I don't mean to start any drama, but vtnerd was questioning jberman's empirical work very aggressively on github. I guess questioning me, too, when I piped up about it. 23:19:28 he's a very sharp dude and may have some reasons like ensuring you're aware of the whole background. i'd only be able to give you my impression on seeing the specific sentence/reply you have in mind 23:19:44 afk for a little 23:20:55 I looked at vtnerd's resume. There's no reason to think that vtnerd knows stats at a technical level. 23:21:04 Comments here: https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/86 23:21:27 Here too: https://github.com/vtnerd/monero-lws/pull/22 23:21:39 I already said my piece in #monero-beef:monero.social 23:26:44 i've never visited that channel And I would suggest that you keep such conversations recorded so that what you say can be verified 23:27:03 just read the first link where jberman says the criticisms were fair 23:27:35 endogenic: Oh, it was a one-sided conversation. A monologue, really 23:27:37 vtnerd has been around a long time and knows the ins and outs of monero better than most 23:28:44 I don't think vtnerd knows stats well. Very few programmer do. (That's why we are in the predicament that we are in with the mixin selection algorithm in the first place.) 23:29:36 I think you'll find him a very beneficial contributor to whatever stats work you demonstrate mathematically is important 23:30:20 I respond well when people recognize the limits of their own knowledge. 23:30:30 Originally ring signatures seemed to be sold more as providing "plausible deniability" which they still do even with powerful heuristics telling us which output in a ring is the most likely 23:30:56 BTC has plausible deniability 23:31:02 Rodney am I just suggest that you attempt to find a way to work together and not to take it personally because 23:31:15 Chances are you're reading too much into it as I know him personally 23:31:31 My text to speech is failing horribly 23:32:00 I mean, I can understand a brusque personality. That's fine. Economists are rough on each other too. It's not just the tone. 23:32:12 Plausible deniability seemed good enough until the tantalizing idea of size 100+ rings and nearly homogeneous transactions came about 23:32:46 we are one 23:32:47 if it's not just the tone then I would definitely suggest making a good record of such things because they will be important 23:32:59 carrington - Can churning single inputs still help to increase plausible deniability (in the case of collusion between sender -> you -> recipient)? 23:33:15 Overall I would definitely encourage people to make more thorough confirmations before they believe their conclusions about people 23:33:24 Is the github issue going to be deleted or something? What do I need a record of? 23:33:32 nioc: i am you 23:34:04 no my point is that your specific concerns should be highlighted rather than requiring someone who does not have your expertise to go through and determine exactly which sentences you believe are suspect 23:34:26 anarkiocrypto[m]: Churning is a controversial subject but I would say yes if you are careful not to merge outputs or do something easily correlated temporally 23:35:14 OK, good to know. I use fresh wallets per use case but churn before and after sending to these wallets (with some days between churns). I only have 1 input in each wallet. 23:35:15 endogenic: The difficulty of course is that I cannot adequately defend my position since a lot of the supporting work is now under review of the Vulnerability Response Process with HackerOne. 23:35:35 Shoutout to coin control in Feather wallet 23:36:41 Rucknium[m]: i know that feeling 23:37:08 I am trying to keep a lid on my feelings about it since I recognize that I am letting my previous interactions with programmers and computer scientists spill over into this one. That's why I went t #monero-beef:monero.social 23:37:29 carrington - My basic understanding of churn is that it creates a new "branch" of plausible deniability which would mean a colluder would need to waste time to look through every branch. No churn: 1/11 chance it was yours, one churn: 1/121, two churns 1/1331, three churns 1/14641, etc. Or am I understanding it wrong? 23:38:20 Fact: No qualified statistician has ever reviewed the Monero protocol, despite the fact that it relies quite heavily on resistance to statistical attack to protect user privacy 23:39:00 Or, should I say, no qualified statistician whose goal is to protect Monero users' privacy has reviewed the protocol. 23:39:15 We don't know what the other side is doing. 23:39:33 I am doing my best. I am about a month in. 23:41:34 anarkiocrypto[m]: Pretty much, but there are edge cases where you might end up combining outputs or creating some obvious pattern otherwise 23:50:44 Thanks. I only have 1 input in each wallet at one time (I don't reuse wallets to receive Monero) and churn every few days (no specific time).