02:47:36 <ajs_[m]> Thank you to whoever donated towards the subscription.
02:49:57 <ajs_[m]> I'll restart the 24/7 video stream once the Monero's lofi girl artwork is completed.
04:25:42 <msvb-web> Good job ajs_[m].
08:42:07 <slstmd[m]> https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.tnmd.87126/gov.uscourts.tnmd.87126.22.0.pdf
08:42:13 <slstmd[m]> "After serving sixty-one days in solitary confinement, Spagni is now out of custody because South Africa failed to make a timely submission in support of its extradition request."
08:51:08 <mechanic41turk[m> thanks to the ransomware hackers 
08:51:14 <mechanic41turk[m> crippling the SA govt
08:53:47 <Halver[m]> at last !
08:57:14 <Rucknium[m]> mechanic41turk: If that was the actual motivation behind the hack, that's gotta be like the most cypherpunk thing ever. Ghost-in-the-Shell-level stuff.
08:57:36 <mechanic41turk[m> Rucknium: I want to believe.
09:00:55 <sech1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/768551581993533540/888462028702879924/1631893254155.png
09:28:14 <ajs_[m]> <slstmd[m]> ""After serving sixty-one days in..." <- This is a request made by his lawyer, not a decision of the court.
09:30:23 <slstmd[m]> yes, I know
09:34:57 <slstmd[m]> The request is about getting access to South Africa's submission for provisional arrest, it reads to me like he is already out of custody.
10:02:52 <plowsof[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/psaq3k/if_you_are_perhaps_bored_and_want_to_keep_abreast/hdp7yj0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
10:03:56 <plowsof[m]> the tldr from rbrunner is that he is out 👆️
10:21:04 <mechanic41turk[m> <plowsof[m]> "the tldr from rbrunner is that..." <- For a moment I thought you meant that rbrunner himself was out (done with the xmr community).
10:27:14 <Inge> If people are bored waiting on updates, I'll recommend Franz Kafkas book on the trial
10:27:38 <Inge> The Trial
11:16:54 <atomfried[m]> <Inge> "If people are bored waiting on..." <- i recomment "anatomy of the state" by murray rothbard 🤣😂
11:52:42 <Chamus> <Inge> "If people are bored waiting on updates" <- For the people who are bored waiting for an update, I wrote a VERY FICTIONAL short story in 9 acts
11:52:58 <Chamus> No base other than my imagination
11:54:04 <Chamus> 1. USA knew of the privacy coin Ronero, Cheeky Puppy and Cheeky's problems with the SAF law for years and had been monitoring them all
11:54:23 <Chamus> 2. USA waits to see how it would play its hand on this info, or if it ever would play it
11:54:54 <Chamus> 3. Crypto legislation time finally comes, and they know Cheeky Puppy is there for the grabbing. They award a genius visa to Cheeky to lure him to the states and push SAF government to force a warrant
11:55:32 <Chamus> 4. Cheeky thinks he is indeed a genius and moves to the states
11:55:57 <Chamus> 5. USA tracks Cheeky since he arrives to US and tells SAF government exactly when to request for his extradition (the exact day he would be flying)
11:57:21 <Chamus> 6. USA denies bail knowing Cheeky has demonstrated to be quite the self-serving fella in the past, knowing there's no way he could trade his Hollywood lifestyle for jail, and knowing he might offer to snitch even before he was asked to
11:57:56 <Chamus> 7. Cheeky sings like a fat lady on CT scams, CT scammers, Ronero core team, Ronero's devs, Ronero's donors, and shady high level entities that might have approached him to either score Ronero or to set up Ronero infrastructure (arm dealers, drug dealers, crooked politicians, crooked contractors, human traffickers, you name it, this is Ronero)
11:58:54 <Chamus> 8. A fake SAF Department of Justice hack is announced (that serves as a charade to justify way more than Cheeky's release, a "multiple birds with one stone" kind of thing) as to justify dropping the ball while allowing SAF government to kind of save face
12:00:49 <Chamus> 9. USA got themselves valuable info to prosecute other people, and a priceless informant for the future. SAF gets a treat down the road. Cheeky gets released and eventually gets a reduced sentence, that's still tbd
12:00:54 <Chamus> THE END
12:13:27 <sethsimmons> Fluffy if officially out 🎊
12:13:27 <sethsimmons> https://twitter.com/fluffypony/status/1440286777911099397
12:14:17 <rottenstonks> Yesssssss.
12:20:44 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Happy to hear he is free now :)
12:38:25 <luigi1111> gud fanfic
12:38:51 <selsta> luigi recently changed his writing style
12:39:25 <rottenstonks> .hmm
12:39:34 <rottenstonks> looigi is fluffer confirmed.
12:39:46 <rottenstonks> watch out before they cancel us for conspiracy theorists.
12:51:29 <nioc> I hear that planes are faster than boats
12:51:36 <nioc> also safer 
13:00:03 <Chamus> <@luigi1111> "gud fanfic" <- lol
13:00:13 <Chamus> tru
13:00:16 <Chamus> haha
13:07:32 <luigi1111> trying to be more sensitive to zoomer language 
13:40:56 <sudo_ki[m]> <nioc> "also safer..." <- Also fuck the planet up, just how we like it
13:41:07 <sudo_ki[m]> * Also fucks the planet up, just how we like it
18:18:32 <Chamus> https://twitter.com/Spatzipantz/status/1440338286459846673
18:18:37 <Chamus> I'm confused
18:19:30 <Chamus> Fluffy still has access to the getmonero.org credentials?
18:19:56 <selsta> You don't need getmonero.org credentials to have an email account.
18:20:04 <Chamus> can I get one?
18:20:38 <selsta> it's like saying if you have a gmail address you have credentials for logging into Google backend lol
18:20:53 <Chamus> can I get a getmonero.org email address?
18:21:08 <selsta> not from me
18:21:09 <Chamus> because if you have one, you can conduct business on behalf of monero
18:21:13 <Chamus> at least in the eyes of people
18:21:41 <selsta> fluffypony is still core team member
18:21:57 <Chamus> The priveleges were withdrawn, I believe?
18:22:03 <Chamus> and for very obvious reasons?
18:22:18 <Chamus> This should go without saying
18:22:24 <Chamus> Even if Fluffy is your friend
18:22:28 <Chamus> Anyone's friend
18:24:42 <nioc> .barolo
18:25:46 <sethsimmons> Chamus: He was not removed from the Core team, just his permissions to all infra were obviously revoked.
18:26:15 <Chamus> Well, this is time to give careful consideration to all this
18:26:20 <Chamus> I'm sure we can all agree
18:27:19 <sethsimmons> No reason to remove him from the Core team because of what has happened AFAICT.
18:27:27 <Chamus> It would only make sense that he voluntarily remove himself from core
18:27:33 <Chamus> as to avoid any suspicious ç
18:27:44 <mechanic41turk[m> he got out today
18:27:44 <mechanic41turk[m> give him some time
18:27:46 <Chamus> This whole thing is fishy to the next level
18:27:52 <Chamus> Is not about him Seth
18:27:53 <Chamus> sorry
18:27:54 <sethsimmons> Suspicion of what?
18:27:55 <Chamus> is about Monero
18:28:01 <Chamus> of him having cut a deal
18:28:08 <selsta> feds have taken over!!11
18:28:09 <sethsimmons> Chamus: He literally has been in solitary, how would he have done this?
18:28:24 <Chamus> Hope the rest are not as naive as Seth is showing to be
18:28:37 <sethsimmons> I think he has more important things to do than rush to IRC to step down from Core team lmao
18:28:37 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Chamus why do you and Geonic try to kick out everyone who contributes to Monero...?
18:28:46 <mechanic41turk[m> Chamus: careful there.
18:28:47 <sethsimmons> Hours after being discharged from 2mo of Solitary
18:28:49 <Chamus> Do asumme Seth
18:28:50 <sethsimmons> jfc
18:29:12 <Chamus> This Monero
18:29:13 <sethsimmons> Chamus: Ah, here we go again
18:29:23 <Chamus> I'm just being rational
18:29:25 <Chamus> Sorry
18:29:31 <Chamus> We need to be responsible
18:29:37 <Chamus> I'm surprised you would not agree
18:29:45 <DaveyJones> responsible would not be witch hunting everyone as soon as you can
18:29:55 <Chamus> This is a dangerous path
18:29:57 <anarkiocrypto[m]> You seem to want to kick out everyone who is doing work until there is no one left.
18:30:00 <Chamus> Not questioning
18:30:05 <Chamus> Be careful guys
18:30:10 <sethsimmons> No, you're not being rational, you're witch hunting THE FUCKING DAY HE'S OUT OF SOLITARY
18:30:12 <sethsimmons> jfc
18:30:18 <sethsimmons> What in the world is wrong with you
18:30:24 <Chamus> For people less naive than Seth
18:30:27 <Chamus> This is a big deal
18:30:41 <Chamus> Simping for Fluffy really is not the way to go
18:30:55 <DaveyJones> you could have brought that out for weeks - but you do it today... thats ridicolous
18:30:58 <sethsimmons> The dude has spent two months alone in a jail cell and you have the gall to witch hunt him out of Monero the moment he's released for... reasons
18:30:59 <sethsimmons> Chamus: No one is "simping"
18:31:02 <sudo_ki[m]> Chamus: Seems like it's worth leaving sleep dogs be for now
18:31:07 <anarkiocrypto[m]> The most basic level of empathy/respect is not simping.
18:31:09 <sethsimmons> I was the first to call for his perms to be revoked upon arrest
18:31:11 <mechanic41turk[m> Chamus: you want to question? write in full, deliberate sentences. Writing small and frequent sentences makes this difficult.
18:31:29 <rehrar> I'm in favor of not giving him infra privs back for a while, but I don't think he'd mind since he's going to be busy dealing with all this anyways.
18:31:54 <DaveyJones> i dont even think he wants those privs back for a while ... if even ever
18:31:57 <Chamus> <sudo_ki[m]> "Seems like it's worth leaving sleep dogs be for now" <- You're very right sir. I appreciate your wisdom.
18:32:18 <fluffys_prison_a> Chamus: this guy glows 
18:32:19 <sethsimmons> rehrar: Obviously, this is the only reasonable move.
18:32:25 <sethsimmons> No one is rushing to give back perms AFAIK.
18:33:15 <sethsimmons> Chamus is just trying to witch hunt another Monero community member out the day he's released from solitary for unspecified reasons.
18:33:23 <rehrar> Anyone who wants to pressure him to step down can do so. He can't be voted out since Core is non-democratic. It's up to Core to decide their members and numbers. But I wouldn't dream of stopping someone who wants to pressure him to leave.
18:33:26 <mechanic41turk[m> indeed seems like it.
18:33:44 <mechanic41turk[m> * like it. (meant for seth's message)
18:34:11 <fluffys_prison_a> anyone have a link to Chamus 's repository?  has he ever contributed anything?
18:34:46 <sudo_ki[m]> fluffys_prison_a: Because repos are the only way to contribute, get real 
18:35:40 <sudo_ki[m]> Monero beefs exists now... 
18:36:44 <Rucknium[m]> I believe Chamus said they would contribute by bringing in 1-2 individuals with Ph.D.s in statistics. We'll see if they can make good on that promise.
18:37:44 <anarkiocrypto[m]> It's still better to build things up (e.g. code, marketing, statistics, translations, use cases, etc.) than tear things down (try to harass Monero contributors out of the community).
18:38:22 <sudo_ki[m]> Of course, bring out the person whom would aruge 
18:38:25 <rojiro> what is it that happned that we are arguing that fluffy is or isn't responsible for?
18:38:30 <sethsimmons> Rucknium[m]: There has been lots of tearing down other's proposals with nothing actually created or presented yet, but if he chooses to actually follow through on promises of contribution they will be welcome.
18:39:09 <sethsimmons> rojiro: It's unclear -- chamus is witch-hunting fluffy off the Core team for being "fishy", presumably because he was arrested and charged, but not convicted.
18:39:29 <rojiro> sethsimmons: when you said "how could he have done this" what is the 'this' you are referring to?
18:40:25 <sethsimmons> rojiro: Resign from Core team from solitary confinement
18:40:28 <sethsimmons> Which is what chamus was 
18:40:34 <xmrscott[m]> <anarkiocrypto[m]> "Chamus why do you and Geonic try..." <- Because they're the same person potentially
18:40:36 <sethsimmons> * chamus was saying he should have done already.
18:41:00 <rojiro> gotcha
18:41:16 <xmrscott[m]> tl;dr Their reason is the same as geonic most likely
18:42:27 <mechanic41turk[m> If only geonic could also bring in talent that he is so eager to boot-off...
18:43:16 <anarkiocrypto[m]> No, they are different, but still appear to share a counterproductive interest in destabilizing and fragmenting Monero communities... despite that they sometimes have good ideas and if they would concentrate on these ideas instead of ad hominems against others, they could really help Monero.
18:43:25 <sethsimmons> Witch hunts and crucifixions are far easier than productive work, in almost all cases.
18:43:34 <sethsimmons> And recruiting is incredibly difficult.
18:44:18 <sethsimmons> I'm excited by the already large outpouring of support and engagement from Rucknium's proposal, seems some real ground is being gained there already.
18:44:18 <rehrar> I know I may be the most surprising person to hear this from, but having worked for core and in/around Monero for a long time, I can see how wanting to usher in new blood at the expense of old blood can be beneficial.
18:44:42 <DaveyJones> we are talking about the same fluffy - that removed himself as central figure a long time ago
18:44:48 <rehrar> We don't have term limits on contribution, obviously. But the fresh ideas are exciting to see, and Monero has been in a lull for quite some time prior to this.
18:45:21 <sethsimmons> DaveyJones: Yup, who's taken many active steps to reduce his impact and influence despite many ways he could benefit himself instead.
18:45:33 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I am only around the Monero community since a few months, I was a passive user since 2016, but it's honestly sad to see hard-working genuine people get harassed out of a workgroup for open-source, private, financially inclusive, humanitarian money. The state and corporations are bad enough enemies, we don't need to be our own enemies too.
18:45:51 <anarkiocrypto[m]> But maybe I am misinterpreting this.
18:46:43 <DaveyJones> sure new blood is needed and interesting ... but doesn't mean that it has to be on the expense of old blood ... especially in a way that could potentially scare away other freelancers
18:47:14 <DaveyJones> discussing is one thing - witchhunting another
18:47:16 <rehrar> DaveyJones: oh, I absolutely (obviously) disagree with the way a lot of this happened.
18:47:32 <rehrar> I can just see how the idea can be appealing.
18:47:57 <rehrar> I myself would try to do a less destructive way of accomplishing the same thing, but I can see the frustration when politicking gets nowhere and so the impatient resort to bloody civil war to incite change NOW
18:48:19 <sethsimmons> I don't think anyone would be opposed to changes in Core team membership in some way.
18:48:20 <DaveyJones> i mean in the end ... it all comes down to either a project can take it ... or not ... and then is the question should it have been if it cannot take it
18:48:40 <sudo_ki[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: Your not, there are a lot of characters who believe there right to speak should outweigh the importance of what they say
18:48:48 <sethsimmons> I have seen no sane attempts at a change in Core membership or construction.
18:48:57 <sudo_ki[m]> * Your not, there are a lot of characters who believe their right to speak should outweigh the importance of what they say
18:49:02 <sethsimmons> Just witch hunts that might have that end in mind without stating it clearly.
18:49:08 <selsta> You want the people longest involved with the project for things like donation fund access, not "new" people.
18:49:15 <rehrar> People have different ideas on what the role of core SHOULD be. If their duties stay as they are now, then what they have (both in membership and approach) is more or less fine.
18:49:38 <rehrar> If people want them to be more active (which necessarily entails some form of centralization in the optics at least) then they need to switch things up
18:50:29 <sethsimmons> selsta: New blood to Core doesn't necessarily mean new community members FWIW
18:50:49 <selsta> nioc for core
18:51:00 <nioc> :D
18:51:13 <DaveyJones> +1 for nioc
18:51:28 <sethsimmons> selsta: +100000
18:51:44 <nioc> oh my
18:51:50 <rehrar> imo, one of core's biggest unspoken responsibilities is to act as a buffer between the outside world and the devs. When all the 'hodlers' and whiners come looking for blood if Monero drops, they can go after the core team instead of filtering into #monero-dev and causing a ruckus
18:52:15 <rehrar> let the devs dev, and let the researchers research
18:52:37 <DaveyJones> yeah - people reaching out on getmonero for interviews and stuff instead of polluting channels
18:52:45 <nioc> aren't they relegated to xmrtrader 
18:52:52 <nioc> the shiners
18:52:57 <nioc> whiners
18:53:06 <DaveyJones> nah thats just rattie and a few others
18:53:08 <rehrar> DaveyJones: absolutely. We obviously want someone reputable and respected answering such emails, but we don't want it to be the devs and researchers
18:53:35 <rehrar> nioc: few of them are actually on IRC period, compared to the cesspools of twitter and reddit
18:53:54 <rehrar> and telegram
18:54:26 <DaveyJones> telegram is so 2019
18:54:28 <DaveyJones> :D
18:54:37 <rehrar> The place for the lowest common denominator
18:54:42 <nioc> irc is 4eva
18:54:45 <rehrar> worse than both reddit and twitter if you can imagine
18:55:09 <rehrar> spend any length of time in any cryptocurrency telegram chat room, and your brain shrivels
18:56:05 <nioc> rehrar: making excuses?  lol
18:56:47 <nioc> I don't need help thx
18:57:35 <nioc> I would say that most here have a good perspective and are good at communicating it
18:58:21 <atomfried[m]> crypto groups in telegram are insane ...
18:58:26 <rehrar> ye, IRC is generally pretty solid
18:58:28 <geonic> <xmrscott[m]> <anarkiocrypto[m]> "Chamus why do you and Geonic try..." <- Because they're the same person potentially <<<<==== hold it there, captain
18:58:55 <geonic> do I remember the mods saying something about unfounded allegations?
18:58:57 <sethsimmons> Idk why people use TG for large groups
18:59:04 <sethsimmons> That place is... not for me lol
19:00:10 <rehrar> It's both gross and fascinating. Like a slug.
19:00:11 <sudo_ki[m]> nioc: And most are very bad at handling their emotions when there read something they don't like
19:00:24 <sudo_ki[m]> * And most are very bad at handling their emotions when they read something they don't like
19:01:52 <nioc> we are here working for the same thing, often for different reasons/perspectives
19:03:11 <nioc> it can widen one's perspective 
19:03:13 <DaveyJones> yeah working on making the lowest btc/xmr ratio EVA
19:03:29 <DaveyJones> just kidding monero can do that well without us
19:03:33 <nioc> still a ways to go DaveyJones 
19:03:37 <sethsimmons> DaveyJones: Markets is bleeding over 😅
19:11:43 <sgp_[m]> if people want to help create tweets promoting monero from the @monero twitter account, please join #monero-twitter:monero.social on Matrix
19:18:12 <xmrscott[m]> Just an apt time as any to warn folk here that libel and defamation are against the Libera.chat ToS (and subsequently extend to anything bridged to IRC). https://libera.chat/policies/
19:19:37 <geonic> do accusations of sockpuppetry count?
19:26:11 <sudo_ki[m]> And to what extent are we measuring damage to reputation? 
19:26:31 <sudo_ki[m]> Should we not have our own standards?
19:30:01 <sudo_ki[m]> That's a serious question that should be answered!
19:31:48 <fluffys_prison_a> How about not being an asshole that berates and insults volunteers every time they type in the chat while making a total of 0 code/non-code contributions to XMR
19:32:09 <fluffys_prison_a> It's not that difficult. 
19:36:02 <sudo_ki[m]> Yea, that seems like a fair thing to want. But let's say, one time they don't, but in general do. No longer is it every time and that person is free to carry on
19:36:32 <sudo_ki[m]> Your suggestion doesn't seem very viable anymore
19:40:16 <sudo_ki[m]> I have witnessed countless defamatory statements in these chat rooms and in this regard i feel totally embarrassed by the monero community
19:40:31 <mechanic41turk[m> <sudo_ki[m]> "That's a serious question that..." <- relax. fluffy himself seems to be determined to fix this saga.
19:41:17 <sudo_ki[m]> mechanic41turk[m: I'm not talking with respect to fluffy, I'm talking in general 
20:04:56 <midipoet> Was he actually in solitary confinement?
20:05:00 <midipoet> How do we know that?
20:05:23 <midipoet> sethsimmons: ^
20:07:18 <sethsimmons> midipoet: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/psaq3k/if_you_are_perhaps_bored_and_want_to_keep_abreast/hdp7yj0/?context=3
20:11:45 <midipoet> jeepers. 
20:12:02 <crypto_grampy[m]> <midipoet> "Was he actually in solitary..." <- It says 61 days in the court document
20:12:13 <midipoet> yeah, I read.
20:12:49 <midipoet> Life lesson. Don't ever get accused of messing with a Cookie company. 
20:16:14 <geonic> voluntarily. didn't want to mix with gen pop.
20:20:20 <rupee[m]> also, never set foot in the U.S. of A.
20:23:58 <sudo_ki[m]> rupee[m]: Don't worry, they come to you
20:24:28 <sudo_ki[m]> If you're good, you get to go to cubq
20:24:33 <sudo_ki[m]> s/cubq/cuba/
22:31:11 <rottenstonks> <Chamus> can I get a getmonero.org email address?
22:31:12 <rottenstonks> lol, the so-called headhunter who comes in bashing a contributor has the balls to inquiry for a getmonero.org email address. smh. people are something else these days.