01:17:18 "Is anyone aware of any data on..." <- What exactly do you think the real economy is lol 01:20:40 jwinterm: I'm referring to debtors on DeFi purchasing production equipment or paying workers' wages. Production equipment examples would be kitchen equipment, new office buildings or factories, machine tools, robots, various raw materials, computer equipment and physical servers, etc. 01:22:03 I think it would be hard to parse that out, and impossible to guesstimate whether there is more loans strictly for financial speculation in defi or oldfi 01:22:10 I guess we can assume oldfi 01:23:34 There's a lot of publicly-accesible aggregate data about that for OldFi. Central banks generally maintain it since they need to know what's going on as far as loans within the economies that they operate in. 01:23:46 No so much for DeFi as far as I know, however. 01:46:29 Top three on terms of total locked value allow users to earn yield in stable coins in excess of any traditional finance account except maybe some risky bonds https://dappradar.com/defi 01:48:12 Doubt people are buying robots and kitchen equipment much, but is earning yield beyond inflation by lending somehow not real 01:48:39 People like to speculate, institutions speculate at massive scale 01:49:18 What I am interested in is the debtor side, not the side of people earning interest. What are people doing with the loans? 01:49:34 Just because defi isn't loaning $100k to jimbobs construction business doesn't mean it's not creations "real" value 01:49:52 Speculating on shitcoins in large part 01:49:57 I would guess 01:50:30 jwinterm: I guess I should have specified. I am using "real" in the technical sense of the word: 01:50:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_economy 01:51:06 >The real economy concerns the production, purchase and flow of goods and services (like oil, bread and labour) within an economy. It is contrasted with the financial economy, which concerns the aspects of the economy that deal purely in transactions of fiat money and other financial assets, which represent ownership or claims to ownership of real sector goods and services. 01:51:13 >In the real economy, spendings are considered to be "real" as money is used to effect non-notional transactions, for example wages paid to employees to enact labour, bills paid for provision of fuel, or food purchased for consumption. 01:51:45 Fair enough, but the world gets less and less real each year that goes by 01:53:11 If you leverage eth holdings to take a loan on defi to pay contractor in other country under the table to help you build a new app, is it real? 01:54:06 Yes, I would consider that 100% real. Something real is produced. In this case, a service, essentially. 01:54:45 That is probably minority of cases, but no one reporting to central bank, so hard to tell 01:55:19 Defi loans are different than traditional loans in that they are overcollateralized also 01:55:27 So not really even the same thing 01:55:46 I am open to the idea that there is some substantial activity like you describe. I am just wondering if there is any type of data on it, so we might a get a sense of magnitudes. 01:56:27 No one requires paperwork because everything is overcollateralized 01:56:54 Lenders can't really lose 01:57:42 Well, unless there is a hack or the stablecoin loses its peg. I think the high interest rate for lenders is in part a risk premium, 01:58:53 Personally, I am not impressed wit the high interest rates since it just looks like compensation for risk to me, which is just classic credit economics. 02:00:39 Yea, there is certainly risk if price of base asset moves dramatically, but it is still more in the borrower side AFAIK 02:00:54 IANAEE 02:01:09 I am not an eth economist 02:02:41 I am an economist, but not an ETH-specific one, I suppose. 02:05:11 We doing monero defi now? 02:05:17 What did I miss? 02:06:30 I think some people want it. I don't see it happening, though. At least, no changes to the Monero protocol to specifically enable it. 02:07:03 jwinterm[m]: It was just a question on my mind. DeFi is hot right now, but I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. 02:07:44 NFTs are hot, defi was hot like a year ago 02:07:52 I mean, still pretty warm 02:08:34 I think people rejecting things that have proven to be money magnets is silly 02:08:47 It's hot in a political sense. Coinbase's proposed DeFi (or was it CeFi?) was blocked by the SEC and now people are upset. 02:09:02 Yea that wasn't defi at all