06:51:22 <msvb-web> Good for you midipoet,. Do you know if we have any meetings today, like community, events, space, or other?
06:51:39 <msvb-web> I lost track of this, but it is Saturday.
09:24:41 * Elis21F https://o11.me/VK3KV my web sitem install problem way ?
11:01:41 <midipoet> msvb-web: today is Sunday
13:26:33 <mechanic41turk[m> <chad[m]> "I really want onion support, but..." <- me too bro
14:00:17 <msvb-web> Oh wow, crossed a couple timezones and messed up my internal calendar. Thanks midipoet.
14:00:46 <nioc> lol
14:00:56 <nioc> https://funding.monerujo.app/
17:34:57 <brendonero[m]> hi, i'm a marketing "expert" who can i speak to about some problems about the monero project marketing campaign ?
17:38:13 <Rucknium[m]> brendonero: Just say what you're going to say here. The Monero Project doesn't have much formal hierarchy. 
17:38:16 <rbrunner> I would say if the right people are present you are in a good place. If not, people will read up from logs what gets written here.
17:39:20 <rbrunner> Maybe hard to speak about the "Monero project marketing campaign" because currently there does not seem to be anything such :)
17:49:26 <fluffypony> if you're referring to the John Oliver segment, he used the "what is Monero" video that a community member made (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZi9xx6aiuY)
17:49:39 <fluffypony> hardly a "marketing campaign", and certainly not an "advert"
17:55:34 <brendonero[m]> Rucknium: rbrunner thank you, i'd like to point out that many monero users (or just stakeholders) tend to say monero is the real bitcoin etc. but nowadays the average crypto user doesn't even know what bitcoin is in reality. the monero mission is much more complex than bitcoin, this because most of the new people that bought bitcoin in the past two years is keeping them on exchanges... back in the days they would have learned
17:55:34 <brendonero[m]> an hard lesson but today is much less probable. Said so, i think that we should start explain that bitcoin and monero works together to garantee better privacy, we all know that bitcoin succeding is fundamental to monero success. having a fight with bitcoin or trying to subvert the bitcoin narrative isn't beneficial to anybody. on the other hand we know that monero is superior to all the other centralized/premined coins. the
17:55:34 <brendonero[m]> crypto OG (if may call them this way) already know monero and hold many, but the new crypto users are holding 100% premined tokens like shiba or others, i know it may sounds stupid but we have the moral obligation to protect them and gain some users from this mission 
17:55:54 <brendonero[m]> apologize my writen english...
17:55:59 <Inge> so... what is this Monero project marketing campaign, brendonero[m] ?
17:58:31 <Rucknium[m]> "we all know that bitcoin succeding is fundamental to monero success." I don't think we all know this. In fact, I don't know this.
18:04:04 <BusyBoredom[m]> That's good advice that we can apply when talking to other communities brendonero, but everything monero does is 100% community driven so I'm not sure any of us can use your advice in any official capacity. 
18:04:05 <BusyBoredom[m]> That said, monero is a "be the change you want to see in the world" kind of project, so I'm sure none of us would mind if you created your own marketing material. 
18:08:07 <brendonero[m]> Inge: the market is changed and comunication skills should adapt with it. marketing isn't just about advertising... 
18:08:47 <Inge> I .. am not aware of any Monero advertising - except for some monero stickers
18:10:43 <brendonero[m]> BusyBoredom: this is a good advice but sadly i'm not a good content creator so i'll leave this part to people more expert than me
18:11:37 <brendonero[m]> just wanted to share my knowledge with you guys, since monero is a nice community driven project.
18:19:16 <BusyBoredom[m]> I think there are some content creators over at #monero-memes:monero.social. 
18:19:16 <BusyBoredom[m]> Side note, I think you'll find that the "investor" mindset in this community is pretty weak. Monero isn't meant to be an investment, it's meant to be a currency, which is probably why you see so much apathy towards marketing here. 
18:22:16 <rbrunner> Your arguments written above which you probably could brutally simplify as "Bitcoin and Monero strong and happy together" will be a very tough sell to the Monero community IMHO
18:30:31 <brendonero[m]> i know the investor mindset might be weak but a currency needs liquidity and without liquidity monero lose its usecase, this doesn't apply only to monero but even to bitcoin. rbrunner imo most of monero users have both...
18:35:21 <Rucknium[m]> brendonero:  In what sense does Monero lack liquidity? And how can a marketing campaign affect liquidity? I mean, I can see some ways that marketing may affect liquidity, but I'd like to know what you have in mind.
18:58:22 <unscottable[m]> xmr or bust 😎 
19:04:52 <nikg83[m]> All eggs in same basket
19:06:39 <dEBRUYNE> will be a very tough sell to the Monero community IMHO <= I think the majority of the community understands that Bitcoin and Monero are complements, not competitors
19:17:00 <unscottable[m]> <nikg83[m]> "All eggs in same basket" <- as far as crpyo assets go, yes. 
19:17:04 <brendonero[m]> Rucknium: just look the traded volume on exchange... shiba or doge are mone liquid than monero and i'm speaking about the sell side and the buy side. this isn't good for the project... a good advertisement campaign (not saying marketing since marketing is more vast than what people think) may acquire potential users and then increase liquidity.
19:17:09 <unscottable[m]> * as far as crypto assets go, yes. 
19:17:39 <unscottable[m]> if anything id hedge in some other asset besides cryptocurrency, to diversify. 
19:17:53 <brendonero[m]> i think the fight bitcoin vs monero is a war that nobody can win
19:19:26 <Rucknium[m]> brendonero: As long as the buy-sell spread isn't substantial (and AFAIK it isn't, for Monero), that type of liquidity doesn't matter much for use as a medium of exchange.
19:20:03 <unscottable[m]> the liquidity thing is a double edged sword. If XMR was used more it may spur on regulation, but it would be nice for it to be used more 
19:20:57 <Rucknium[m]> I'd argue that more marketing means more volatility in the fiat-XMR exchange rate, which harms use as a medium of exchange. There, marketing is counterproductive Q.E.D.
19:21:04 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Monero, KYC-free exchanges and KYC-free marketplaces are designed to be resistant to regulation.
19:21:35 <brendonero[m]> Rucknium well i can argue with that, if you are talking about liquidity for a little market yes it isn't an issue but if you are talking about a very big market, well...
19:22:34 <unscottable[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: resistant yes but not impervious. also just announcing a regulation regardless of capability to enforce it, will manipulate the price 
19:22:44 <anarkiocrypto[m]> This is good practical marketing:
19:22:44 <anarkiocrypto[m]> https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/q3icmn/sell_your_junk_and_only_accept_monero_challenge/
19:24:55 <rbrunner> Just for fun sorted coins on coimarketcap.com for daily exchange trading volume: There must be 70 or 80 coins more "liquid" than Monero.
19:25:16 <rbrunner> Monero must be a complete basket case :)
19:25:41 <nioc> not all liquidity is equal
19:25:44 <nioc> or real
19:26:58 <rbrunner> Of course. Just wondering what all those 70 coins get out of their higher "liquidity", which I understand brendonero to be important
19:27:29 <nioc> haven't looked lately but a scam exchange was listed as #1 in volume for monero
19:28:59 <rbrunner> Whatever :) So if that wonderful Shiba coin mentioned has 10 times, or even 100 times the liquidity of Monero, what does it care Monero? Where's the disadvantage, damage even?
19:29:32 <brendonero[m]> it cannibalize monero potential users
19:29:58 <rbrunner> Because you can buy so many things in so many places with Shiba?
19:30:00 <brendonero[m]> it cannibalize potential liquidity
19:30:56 <unscottable[m]> rbrunner: also liquidity numbers can be manipulated 
19:31:42 <dEBRUYNE> brendonero[m]: Traded volume is kind of a bad metric to measure liquidity
19:31:46 <dEBRUYNE> Order book depth is a better measure arguably
19:31:54 <dEBRUYNE> Substantially harder to fake
19:31:57 <unscottable[m]> especially since people running various crypto projects know that people will sort by trade volume 
19:31:59 <brendonero[m]> rbrunner: this is my point. shiba is useless but nocoiners ask me about shiba and not about monero or bitcoi...
19:32:00 <rbrunner> Clear. I just argue I still refuse to worry if *real*, *hard* liquidity of Monero is only 1% of Shiba. A whole different world. Monero can still work as a currency with that 1%
19:32:24 <rbrunner> Let them ask :)
19:36:55 <brendonero[m]> https://www.livecoinwatch.com/price/Monero-XMR
19:37:25 <rbrunner> It's a little like a scene on a market in a small country with its own currency. The buyer asks the seller of carrots: "Are you aware that our currency is almost worthless?"
19:37:26 <rbrunner> And then, when the seller asks suprised "Why?" the buyer explains: "Just order the world's fiat currency by trading volume. Then you will see."
19:39:49 <Rucknium[m]> rbrunner: Very good analogy. Monero has sufficient liquidity to act as a medium of exchange. It would be nice to get it on more centralized exchanges, but that's a separate metric than gross aggregate trading volume.
19:40:33 * unscottable[m] uploaded an audio file: (71KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/antioptic.com/vXBjGDQEUGlpsMRNlZboOSMW/Voice%20message.ogg >
19:41:17 <unscottable[m]> in fact xmr not being on coinbase is a sign that its privacy functions do work lol 
19:42:24 <brendonero[m]> but don't we want big corp using monero ? liquidity matters... bitcoin +-2% liquidity is over a billion monero is less than 17 million
19:42:34 <brendonero[m]> we need liquidity.
19:42:43 <rbrunner> big corp using Monero for what?
19:43:26 <brendonero[m]> with liquidity we will have a larger userbase... i don't know, lobbing ?
19:43:49 * unscottable[m] uploaded an audio file: (140KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/antioptic.com/zHcUhAxfhRhXmczOYoUmOGOW/Voice%20message.ogg >
19:46:54 * unscottable[m] uploaded an audio file: (280KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/antioptic.com/vfdQgwpQoDfxNeMurTCJWzJK/Voice%20message.ogg >
19:47:51 <unscottable[m]> also what happens if a corp goes bankrupt? the usd is used to bail them out from taking that risk. they can print more
19:48:45 <unscottable[m]> they cant alter the supply of monero at a government level if one of their business ventures goes bankrupt. so they cant use it in the way they can use the USD 
19:50:07 <unscottable[m]> so my main point is that generally there is not an incentive for big corps to use XMR. because of things described above. 
19:51:12 <nioc> if corps are going to use cryptocurrency for business then monero makes sense compared to a transparent ledger 
19:52:12 <unscottable[m]> a transparent ledger will facilitate trade and allow tracking, which would benefit the current hegemony of the international monetary systen 
19:52:17 <unscottable[m]> s/systen/system/
19:52:54 <unscottable[m]> the NYTimes, one of the regimes media outlets just wrote on article describing it in that way
19:52:57 <nioc> yeah I want all my competitors to know my business :)
19:53:39 * unscottable[m] uploaded an image: (237KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/antioptic.com/IxtlkGmwXFCCbBUOCXpsLyCt/IMG_20211010_155321_707.jpg >
19:53:40 <nioc> but yes we need to track everyone 
19:53:49 <unscottable[m]> this is the ultimate goal ^ 
19:54:11 <unscottable[m]> this was in the NYTimes 
19:54:45 <nioc> widely known yes 
19:55:09 <nioc> happening in other counties as we type 
19:55:50 <unscottable[m]> so this is why they favor a transparent ledger and xmr isnt listed on coinbase, and coinbase was put on the NYSE. they are making careful moves to attempt to centralize cryptocurrency 
19:56:09 <unscottable[m]> with the eventual release of a CBDC 
19:57:03 <nioc> most usd is digital
19:57:08 <unscottable[m]> the CBDC will also likely have incentives for people to switch to it. such as better tax rates, discounts at participating corporations and etc.
19:57:11 <nioc> nothing to release
19:59:27 <nioc> there are some countries that have gone virtually cashless without using a CBDC
20:00:08 <unscottable[m]> janet yellen, the director of the us treasury just made a statement regarding cryptocurrency as well, that is very telling
20:00:08 <unscottable[m]> from their perspective their plan is to take the benefits of crypto, and the benefits of the USD, and to merge them into one entity. and xmr is not a part of that plan at all lol 
20:01:04 <unscottable[m]> xmr is the wrench thrown in the gears of this plan 
20:01:12 <nikg83[m]> Xmr will live on layer2 Internet 😅
20:02:20 <nioc> what benefits?  decentralization?  distributed?  inefficient?   
20:02:27 <nioc> maybe just permanent record lol
20:02:55 <unscottable[m]> obviously a cbdc is centralized, and has a permanent record 
20:04:22 <nikg83[m]> Cbdc = gov bypasses banks = full oversight of transactions
20:04:32 <unscottable[m]> also the supply is much easier to manipulate 
20:04:47 <nioc> this type of talk always makes me feel like going outside naked 
20:05:04 <unscottable[m]> * to manipulate,, *  and they can manipulate it in more creative ways 
20:06:17 <unscottable[m]> the regime is already spitting out fearmongering propaganda around XMR lol 
20:06:25 <unscottable[m]> exactly as i expected 
20:07:09 <unscottable[m]> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/02/05/bitcoin-crowdfunding-used-white-supremacists-far-right-extremists/4300688001/
20:07:09 <unscottable[m]> https://www.newsweek.com/white-supremacists-cryptocurrency-monero-bitcoin-861104
20:07:11 <nikg83[m]> unscottable[m]: Doesn’t matter, there will be ppl even in gov which need such tools 
20:07:44 <unscottable[m]> xmr is used by "racists" didnt you know 
20:07:47 <unscottable[m]> 😆
20:08:03 <nikg83[m]> Yah it’s old now
20:08:08 <unscottable[m]> HITLER WOULDVE USED XMR, DONT USE IT. 😱
20:08:34 <unscottable[m]> itll continue to ramp up as well, as time passes. 
20:09:06 <nikg83[m]> Ok, should I sell my 0.1xmr ?
20:09:12 <unscottable[m]> the IMF put out a video on cryptocurrency as well, targeting private cryptocurrencies 
20:09:40 <unscottable[m]> nikg83[m]: no it means you should buy more 
20:10:41 <nikg83[m]> unscottable[m]: 👍
20:21:24 <unscottable[m]> * "HITLER WOULDVE, * IT. 😱"
20:27:57 <unscottable[m]> just learned jstark1809 has passed away
20:28:13 <unscottable[m]> RIP, his work will never be forgotten 
20:28:28 <unscottable[m]> ☹