02:37:48 <spirobel[m]> <BusyBoredom[m]> "I agree spirobel, I think it's..." <- you also have to think about what it does to your brain: Some people didnt win in the birth lottery, so now they play a different kind of lottery. So humanity is reduced to gambling, from birth to death the outcome in life only depends on chance and not on effort and merit. 
02:46:49 <spirobel[m]> <kibble[m]> "The investment craze is definite..." <- interesting article. Maybe I should write one too. I think its very important to think about which kind of hodlers a coin attracts. If you attract lazy gamblers the project will die. Ideally poor, talented people with a good work ethic should be the holders of the coin. While  lazy gamblers should btfo they will just damage morale with their "I got mine. what about you?" I mean
02:46:49 <spirobel[m]> look at litecoin for example. they have this thread to attract the gamblers https://litecointalk.io/t/i-will-send-5-ltc-to-a-user-signed-up-before-dec-31/29761/534  look at the comments. do these people provide value to the community? (if they even are people and not bots lol) I think they provide the opposite of it. why should someone work on ltc and get nothing while random people get money? doesnt make sense. So they repel the
02:46:49 <spirobel[m]> people that want to further the project and attract the degenerates. not good.
03:04:49 <kibble[m]> spirobel: I can't even read it, there's a giant popup lol
03:06:52 * spirobel[m] uploaded an image: (199KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/TMQhpIIiBOfchJxkkWNmRIAm/image.png >
03:08:08 <kibble[m]> But yeah, the more a money is exchanged, the lower its price becomes for fluidity. Maybe I'm wrong, but monero isn't pegged to BTC anymore. It stays at $270 while BTC shoots to 60k+
03:10:44 <spirobel[m]> kibble[m]: yeah and thats great. Means you can use it as money. I hope all the speculators get lost eventually. what a sad way to live life. Just sitting around watching a number go up or down.
03:15:05 <kibble[m]> Yes, once monero becomes stable it'll be great
05:00:00 <Mumuks> <spirobel[m]> "yeah and thats great. Means..." <- Speculators increase price stability, if all speculators get lost as you want, the price would become even more volatile.
05:00:24 <Mumuks> We need more speculators, more volume in the exchanges for the price to be more stable.
05:06:31 <spirobel[m]> <Mumuks> "Speculators increase price..." <- How do speculators increase price stability? is there research about this?
05:08:26 <Mumuks> spirobel[m]: Not only research but real world experience. Check the example of what happened with the price of onions when NY banned onion futures (the price became more volatile).
05:10:07 <Mumuks> The quick explanation is that if a trader is making money, he is buying low and selling high. It happens that traders get it wrong and buy high and sell low, but if a trader mostly does this, he will go out of business soon enough and will be out of the market.
05:12:14 <Mumuks> So, since traders that survive in the market buy low and sell high more often than the opposite, you can see how they have a stabilaizing effect on the price. When the price is low, they buy,, which keeps the price from going even lower. When the price is high they sell, which keeps the price from going even higher. Hence they have a stabilising effect.
05:15:14 <mj-xmr[m]> Mumuks: Somewhat smarter ones will even automate this and protect their decisions against own emotions.
05:16:49 <mj-xmr[m]> But it does take long time to brew and eliminate the weak hands.
05:20:00 <spirobel[m]> <Mumuks> "Not only research but real world..." <- I mean commodity futures have a special purpose: give farmers the option to derisk their business by buying hedges against price fluctuations in the commodity that they produce. I dont buy the argument: more speculators = less volatility. I would argue the opposite is true. But maybe I should be more specific. Its not speculators in general that I have a problem with. Its the
05:20:00 <spirobel[m]> hodlers. Speculators are in it for the money. They will speculate and shut up for the most part. I think its the hodlers that are the problem. Look at how much toxicity is spread by the bitcoin maxis. There is nothing wrong with chasing financial freedom. But doing it in a way that is not sustainable if everyone did it is bad. Even worse is the social signaling afterwards. Its like finding a way out of jail that will only work for
05:20:00 <spirobel[m]> a few people and after making it out its still not enough. They cant shut up about it and silently enjoy their "freedom" they need to tease the people that are still inside and tell everyone how much smarter than everyone else they are.
05:23:31 <Mumuks> spirobel: Btc environment became this toxic after Block(the)Stream started operating and censorship in forums ramped up. Most reasonable people left and, I suspect, a lot of the culture got changed by paid shills not by real users.
05:23:44 <Mumuks> But this is different than discussing speculation.
05:29:29 <spirobel[m]> <Mumuks> "But this is different than..." <- no. its related. If vice is turned into virtue and lazy behavior is rewarded the technological progress will stagnate. its apparent in bitcoin and even more so in litecoin. Attracting gamblers is actively repelling creative people that could move the space forward.   
06:39:29 <crypto_grampy[m]> Seraphis PoC is funded 🎉🎉🎉
10:32:07 <mechanic41turk[m> <crypto_grampy[m]> "Seraphis PoC is funded 🎉🎉🎉" <- quite fast
12:58:32 <gingeropolous> spirobel[m], well, thats marketing for yah
17:01:14 <sgp_> meeting this moment in #monero-space:monero.social 
17:01:57 <nioc> Another one that I can't attend 
19:31:38 <dEBRUYNE> x3nu[m]: Do you need any further explanation?
19:59:11 <crypto_grampy[m]> <dEBRUYNE> "x3nu: Do you need any further..." <- I wouldn't mind further explanation
19:59:29 <crypto_grampy[m]> Im guessing he's seeing it recently due to p2pool?  
20:17:16 <nioc> the 4 recent CCS in Funding Required are now funded
20:17:34 <nioc> thanks to those that donated :)
20:36:39 <sethsimmons> <nioc> "the 4 recent CCS in Funding..." <- Less than 3d after being merged 😎