05:54:42 https://odysee.com/@AlphaNerd:8/fbi-demands-user-data-from-signal-here's:3 05:54:53 On privacy in general. 07:23:26 How can we reward existing vendors who accept btc to also accept xmr? Can monero fund be used for business development activities? Say like hiring a sales manager responsible for converting high value btc vendors to switch to xmr? 07:35:46 Could also promote monero devs to incorporate other cryptos into their projects e.g. this one specifically aims at helping people accept xmr/btc/bch (wallet creation automatic) https://wishlist.monerodevs.org/ 07:45:27 There's also several 'integrate monero' into payment processor bounties people can donate to https://bounties.monero.social/ 07:45:34 "Could also promote monero devs..." <- What is this about? Can we use it to crowwdsource funds to increase sales conversions for monero adoption among vendors? 07:47:13 Monero bounties website is for crowdfunding, take a look (one bounty has 17+ xmr raised) 07:54:31 "Monero bounties website is for..." <- Bounty xmr is not clearly visible, need to click each post to find which one has 18 xmr? 08:09:16 Bounties are in the comments below. (Reducing sync times) 12:08:41 * Moneroship[m] uploaded an image: (730KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/GfDkeimtwbXrpVzBWrwcxVye/image.png > 12:08:50 Why do the admins of SGPs discord server allow porn when his own code of conduct clearly says no sexualized imagery ???? xD 12:09:10 * Moneroship[m] uploaded an image: (732KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/yTuDsRKWXzZrBZzxJmbuEGBe/image.png > 12:15:04 Discord server is not a part of Monero Space 12:25:13 "Why do the admins of SGPs..." <- Where? 12:26:28 * Moneroship[m] uploaded an image: (2208KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/ggQbKzBVIIJbLABKmmCeAXQz/image.png > 12:26:34 this is what my friends find when they look for a monero discord. 12:26:40 or just any normie i talk to about monero... 12:27:03 * Moneroship[m] uploaded an image: (19KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/yPfwCTkmFuXZhkkGYYyvOfSO/image.png > 12:28:12 Pl delete that pic. It's inappropriate here too 12:37:33 ty 12:37:45 "Pl delete that pic. It's..." <- so im not crazy. 13:14:18 ErCiccione: what kind of person would we be trying to hire as far as skillet / responsibilities 13:17:25 hire for what? 13:17:39 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/575#issuecomment-955661405 13:17:51 dev didn't seem like the right channel so I responded here sorry 13:18:23 ah yeah sure! 13:18:53 that's sensitive stuff, so ideally a sysadmin who has already familiarity with Monero's infrastructure 13:20:05 yeah seems like it would be a short list 13:20:22 i thought pigeons did infrastructure stuff 13:20:32 pigeons has been taking care of this stuff, but he contributes on volunteer basics and need somebody to continuously follow up on him on progresses. Core need to hire somebody dedicated to maintain server and services 13:20:48 ah ok 13:21:30 I'm open to more responsibilities and have some technical background + a flexible schedule but I'm only a sysadmin in my own home lol 13:22:17 as a result we have several problems to the infrastructure (see the problem with matrix/IRC) and stuff that has been broken for years that never got fixed (like Matomo for server analytics) and i did use to ping pigeons about it quite regularly. 13:22:38 I'm sure core have somebody who can take care of the situation 13:23:12 i've been bothering them about it for a long time, hopefully this is the last time :) 13:23:53 ok yeah if there's already a good candidate that's chill I'd chip into a ccs or something for it 13:24:21 best thing would be to let them know you are available IMO. So they can keep you in consideration 13:24:50 👍 13:32:56 remember when we had slack relays? 13:35:18 I do, but then mattermost arrived... and died :) 13:35:53 right. i mean, i get the complaints about stuff, but the truth is the irc works. and has worked since 2013 13:36:01 or 2014 13:36:55 i mean, perhaps matrix is the thing that will stick around, but i dunno. and hosting things creates a central thing which does centralized stuff 13:37:23 IRC has worked since 1990 13:37:25 and the delays i see on matrix are just wow 13:37:41 i know, i meant for the monero dev / community effort 13:38:44 IRC is not noob-friendly. Monero needs noobs. Monero needs the bridge to work :) 13:38:54 so get it to work 13:39:06 this fatherly other is so hard to pin doiwn 13:39:18 the delays you see in the monero rooms are not normal tho. I never had any of these issues on the Haveno rooms and that server is self-hosted too 13:39:41 gingeropolous: I think that's what ErCiccione is trying to do 13:39:55 yeah... with not much success until now 13:40:13 well i don't know what actually needs doin so im just blathering here 13:40:18 Maybe we need more powerful hardware? 13:40:30 hardware is good. We need a dedicated sysadmin 13:40:45 what needs adminning? shit doesn't just work? 13:41:09 gingeropolous: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/575#issuecomment-955661405 13:42:24 the issues i mentioned in that can be solved by having a figure taking care that everything works and stuff gets done. There isn't such a figure in monero atm but it's badly needed 13:43:58 to be clear, this is not only related to matrix, but to the infrastructure in general 13:45:19 but of course, if you have a self-hosted whatever, you have to maintain it and make sure it works reliably or doesn't make sense 13:45:49 ErCiccione: There are a few sysadmins who we picked up in the recruitment push. Let me see... 13:46:52 yeah but as i mentioned earlier let's keep in mind that this person will have access to sensitive stuff, so it's unprobable (hopefully) that a newcomer will be picked 13:46:55 Siren is a sysadmin 13:47:15 Oh right. 13:49:16 @sizz:monero.social also does sysadmin work 13:50:20 yeah rando noobs is though 13:50:22 tough 13:51:35 beside, i prefer matrix because it doesn't force me to rely on a centralized server and people can just join the federation with their own server 13:52:48 sure. that model is why i personally gave it a chance 13:52:53 haven't set up my own server yet though 13:52:58 if thats how it works 13:53:10 beside all the fancy features. IRC works sicne the '90's but has also the features of an app from the '90s :) 13:53:22 you don't need to but you can, that's the cool thing 13:53:56 s/app/protocol 13:57:36 and ive never really looked into bridging things, but it doesn't make sense to me that it has to be done by someone with special privalges. privaelges . privaleges. im gonna get it. no spell check. privileges. fine spell check 13:57:50 like, can't anyone run a bot to do the job? 13:57:58 Matrix chats can be end-to-end encrypted. IRC isn't. That's big. 13:59:44 its just a bot, connected to both, reads lines from one, if not present in other, submits to other. 13:59:49 end-to-end encryption is not a problem, matrix handle that with IRC well. 14:00:18 bridging rooms is something that should be done once and that's it 14:00:19 gingeropolous: yes actually 14:00:42 the absence of a dedicated figure who makes sure everything goes fine is the problem 14:00:51 these are not new problems. It's one problem that never got fixed 14:00:55 so yeah. any of the new sysadmin recruits from Rucknium[m] 's push could do that 14:01:11 no sensitive stuff needed mebbe 14:01:12 ErCiccione: Er, I mean it's good that Matrix has e2ee as part of its feature set. Not that it necessarily makes it more difficult to bridge. 14:01:12 i'm assuming there is no actual problem with the IRC relay because the haveno rooms have no problems 14:01:33 Rucknium[m]: Oh i misunderstood then. I agree with that :) 14:02:18 does the bridge work for some users on IRC? or none? 14:02:31 plowsof[m], so, #monero isn't bridge at all for some reason 14:02:43 the bridge that does work for this room and , example, research lab and lounge... 14:02:49 decides occasionally to need to warm up 14:02:58 i.e., it doesn't send the first message if things have idled for a while 14:03:06 but it will send 2nd message on 14:03:37 gingeropolous: I have noticed this too. 14:04:00 I don't think that's a problem of the bridge, more to the set up behind it 14:04:11 sorry, behind the Monero matrix server 14:04:28 right. but its that annoying kind of bug that doesn't happen all the time. a glitch 14:05:11 is that the right usage of glitch? 14:05:15 yeah, if only there was a figure which job is to monitor all this stuff and fix things if something is broken :P 14:05:26 ive heard shadow bans are implemented on the bridge also e.g. @geonic specifically does not get his comments bridged anymore 14:05:59 bans work both way if the mod has power on both matrix and IRC. 14:06:25 same for changing topics and stuff like that. If you are mods on both side, a change you made on Matrix will be reflected on IRC 14:09:09 well, from my perspective, it seems the matrix issues are too relatively minor to expect someone full time to maintain. however, the other issues ErCiccione mentioned are more sensitive, so that limits the talent pool 14:09:23 regarding a dedicated sysadmin 14:09:40 but im just a guy with opinions 14:10:00 that likes to type them out on the internet 14:11:07 i could look into bridging.. cant be much harder than mirroring the bounties site to a none js tor site. and im used to not getting paid for anything 😂 14:11:21 i don't think a full time figure is needed tho, just somebody dedicated to that. Beside, there is a lot to maintain. Consider that i've been maintaining translate.getmonero.org by myself (with the help of pigeons in some case) to mention 1 14:11:46 plowsof: the bridge we use is not managed by us tho. It's matrix' 14:12:04 ahh, ok 14:12:24 so make a new bridge 14:12:25 yeah, we self host the matrix server, but not the bridge 14:12:57 gingeropolous: that was my first approach when i created the haveno room. I set up a bridge and was working amazingly 14:13:11 problem is that Libera people limit the amount of requests you make on their server... 14:13:39 so my bridge was basically kicked out. Talking with libera people they told me they make exception in only superrare cases 14:14:07 and they told me to use matrix' bridge (the one monero uses), which has a limited set of features turned on. 14:14:23 ah, so the bridge account was effectively spamming? 14:15:38 kinda. The requests were legit, the libera folks just limit the amount of connections 14:16:15 'read comment on irc' 'copy and paste into matrix' - from their end it would look like a regular user i would assume 14:16:39 basically once you reach N people in the room, the bridge makes too many requests and they ask you to shut it down. They make an exception for the "official" matrix bridge 14:17:03 im lost on these requests 14:17:42 plowsof[m]: It's more than that. Once cool feature of the bridge is presence tracking. The bridge check that the people in the IRC and matrix room are the same and corrects the list accordingly. That alone is probably a lot of requests 14:18:22 what a stupid feature if it makes the whole bridge break 14:18:23 xD 14:18:36 nothing breaks? 14:18:41 it was working perfectly fine for me 14:18:52 they ask you to shut it down i thought? 14:19:04 it just uses a lot of resources, that's why the official bridge doesn't have all the features turned on 14:19:28 Moneroship[m]: because of the excessive numbers of connections to their IRC server 14:19:30 the only problem with bridging (e.g. me, a home user) is that anyone gets the chance to send a message from my ip (or the server i rent) etc 14:20:18 yeah bridge spam was fun 14:20:47 i dunno. from my reading of https://matrix.org/docs/guides/types-of-bridging it seems like there's a lot of overcomplicated crap for just copying and pasting messages 14:22:32 It's easier than it looks. This is the bridge: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc 14:23:51 but yeah it doesn't only rely messages. It has a full set of features which are actually cool 14:37:25 well sounds like those features make it brokt 14:39:16 it's the amount of people that was the problem. I was asked to turn it off even if i switched off most features 14:40:17 after reaching N people in the room with a bridge, they ask you to shut the bridge down. Features or not features 14:41:03 who they? 14:42:47 Libera folks. 14:44:39 I was talking with Jess specifically, because she used to take care of the relations with Monero people 14:44:54 ima make a relay in bash 14:45:28 :P 14:45:58 You don't even need a relay for libera actually. You can join their rooms directly 14:46:11 i know i threw even more confusion now :) 14:47:18 Basically Libera folks are running a matrix bridge to make things easier 14:47:47 this room for example should be in #monero-community:libera.chat 14:48:19 s/matrix bridge/matrix server 14:48:27 is that where it is? 14:49:20 matrix folks can join the IRC room directly from there, but that's not a great approach. i mean, it's good for now that there are reliability issues 14:50:45 yeah i guess the difference is bridge vs. relay 14:50:59 it seems the bridge approach is too fancy for its own good 14:53:22 you lose all the IRC <-> Matrix features by connecting to IRC directly and makes exchanging messages between matrix users a pain for the matrix homeserver, but it does show you messages from both sides 14:56:11 well, if the matrix messages are relayed properly to IRC. 14:56:18 yeah, it is a bit complex 15:02:56 as per MoneroDev channel : binaryFate ": We're about to move the matrix infra to a new server soon (probably this week). After that we can look at fixing bridges." 15:05:05 I hope my other points are being considered too. The bridge is not really the main problem 15:23:28 check this out dear community fellows: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/qjrlvs/introducing_nifty_gunthers/ 15:37:32 anhdres: That initiative looks amazing. That said, are there going to be high gas fees for this? 15:38:08 Rucknium[m]: For that reason we're minting them on the Polygon chain 15:38:21 at least for now 15:38:32 but feedback is welcomed 15:39:29 My feedback is: Look into smartBCH. It's a low-fee EVM-compatible sidechain of BCH. 15:40:36 In fact, I'm going to suggest to the BCH community that BCH funding initiatives do something similar with NFTs. There have been ideas kicked around for how to "give back" to Flipstarter donors. 15:43:44 In fact, Enter The Sphere did something similar already: http://flipstarter.enter-the-sphere.com/ 15:50:39 Will check it 16:21:31 @anhdres what a great use / combination of your talents ! The descriptions on the drawings, funny and touching! 17:05:22 "I'm sure core have somebody..." <- Core does not have an 'inside guy' w/ Matrix Support. Matrix Support owns the bridge, not pigeons has been stated many a-time 17:07:42 "right. i mean, i get the..." <- Yeah, but IRC blasts your IP to the entire channel since the '90s. Not exactly something you want happening on a privacy project 17:08:39 "plowsof, so, #monero isn't..." <- This is because Matrix Support owns the bridge and requires bridging any room w/ 100+ to get a manual exception override from Monero Support 17:10:00 "ive heard shadow bans are..." <- They have been unbanned similar to Reddit. Also it wasn't a shadow ban in that the ban message/reason was publicly posted by the bot that he violated Libera.chat policy 17:11:09 s/from Monero Support/from Matrix Support 17:15:56 Thanks for the info @xmrscott ! 17:23:51 (And to add on to that #monero bit, Matrix Support has been asked multiple times by pige to get the 100+ person exception). I can speak from personal experience that Matrix Support can take 2-3 weeks to reply if at all. 17:25:27 Hot take: One wouldn't need to deal w/ issues stemming from IRC bridging if people didn't use IRC. https://xkcd.com/1782/ 17:27:48 One bottleneck is Libera. If they allowed a higher request volume to their IRC server, then we wouldn't have to go through Matrix Support, it seems. 18:00:13 "Core does not have an 'inside..." <- I think you missed some of my messages. I'm aware of the situation :) 18:15:48 "I'm aware of the situation". I disagree. You literally said on GitHub "Only who has access to the server's config can do something or even get an idea of what the problem is." despite the root cause for #monero being clearly stated multiple times over the past few months on this channel/room. Let's not throw shade at pige on GitHub who I might add is usually quick to update the matrix/synapse server if one doesn't follow the 18:15:48 ongoings of -community. If you were aware of the situation of Matrix Support owning the app service bridge you would be escalating to #libera-matrix:libera.chat or their GitHub repo, not Monero Meta. :) 18:23:40 xmrscott: You missed the point of my post, which is to ask core to have a dedicated figure to take care of this and other backend related matters, since they have access to it. But beside, the problem is not only #monero, but also messages getting lost in other channels because of clear backend problems. In fact, a migration is ongoing. I don't think Libera can help with that. Only to mention matrix issues and i made clear that there are 18:23:40 more. You can read from dev that binaryfate understood my frustrations and thinks are in motion. So, i cannot really agree with you on this one 18:28:18 Let's not throw shade at pige <- I have absolutely nothing against pigeons, i thought i didn't need to clarify that. He helps all the time when i contact him, but he is a volunteer and sometimes things need to be followed by somebody dedicated to the role, because otherwise, i assure you by experience, you end up stalled. For years. 18:34:38 true xmrscott[m] , forgot about that . ive been doin the znc thing for so long 19:24:34 the [m] afer people's names in here means that they are being patched in from matrix, is that right? So is there an alternative mirror of this channel on matrix? 20:58:51 17:10 xmrscott[m] "ive heard shadow bans are..." <- They have been unbanned similar to Reddit. Also it wasn't a shadow ban in that the ban message/reason was publicly posted by the bot that he violated Libera.chat policy 20:59:17 If the user never receives a message about the ban, that’s a shadow ban by definition. I never received such a message (maybe because I don’t use Matrix?). Next time matrix mods decide to be holier than thou and unilaterally silence IRC users for violating Libera.chat policies, a notification might be merited. Up to you, of course.  21:05:35 "You missed the point of my post, which is to ask core to have a dedicated figure to take care of this and other backend related matters, since they have access to it. " You're continuing to miss the point which is Core does not have account access to @appservice:libera.chat which is the means by which the bridge is managed and no amount of designation by Core, be it 1 person or 7 will change that as it's owned by Matrix Support. 21:08:02 If you want to talk driving Matrix resolution issues, quite literally anyone can do that be it you, binaryfate, myself, or folk reporting the issues on monero-*. Literally all one has to do is escalate #libera-matrix:libera.chat by joining the room/channel and saying "Messages are not being relayed in X channel. Can someone w/ appservice access look into it? Thanks". Super simple. We're a decentralized community for pete's sake, we 21:08:02 should act in a more decentralized fashion rather than relying on Core to micromanage everything that's easily escalated by anyone 21:09:30 s/If you want to talk driving Matrix resolution issues, quite literally anyone can do that be it you, binaryfate, myself, or folk reporting the issues on monero-*. Literally all one has to do is escalate #libera-matrix:libera.chat by joining the room/channel and saying "Messages are not being relayed in X channel. Can someone w/ appservice access look into it? Thanks". Super simple. We're a decentralized community for pete's sake, we 21:09:30 should act in a more decentralized fashion rather than relying on Core to micromanage everything that's easily escalated by anyone/If you want to talk driving Matrix resolution issues, quite literally anyone can do that be it you, binaryfate, myself, or folk reporting the issues on monero-*. Literally all one has to do is escalate #libera-matrix:libera.chat by joining the room/channel and saying "Messages are not being relayed in X 21:09:30 channel. Can someone w/ appservice access look into it? Thanks". Super simple. We're a decentralized community for pete's sake, we should act in a more decentralized fashion rather than relying on Core to micromanage everything that's easily escalatable by anyone to the proper folk/ 21:13:37 "the [m] afer people's names in..." <- Usually. Technically someone based on the Libera.chat side could nick themselves someUser[m] for kicks and giggles. Yes, there's is a matching Matrix room (https://matrix.to/#/#monero-community:monero.social) that is bridged to Libera.chat so messages in Matrix are relayed to Libera and vice versa 21:30:32 Is there a recommended port to use for monero-wallet-rpc? I see 18082 used in the wallet-rpc documentation, but it seems like that overlaps with the zmq port 21:50:58 18083 :P 22:57:44 oh look - 1 BTC != 1 BTC (for the nth time) https://twitter.com/BrianRoemmele/status/1454840629851164676 22:58:53 although I find the evidence somewhat lacklustre 23:03:04 Most minining is centralized already, isn't it? 23:11:37 Yes the nature of ASICS means the manufacturers tend to keep the latest and greatest to themselves for their own farms 23:28:52 https://twitter.com/GunsnBitcoin/status/1454868989880975361?s=20 23:33:32 That's Ragnar, is it not? 23:34:18 Inge: Yes, along with Diverter and many others from the pro-privacy Bitcoin community. 23:37:54 a guns and btc store, but I don't need either of those 23:45:31 wow I never thought I'd live to see the day Ragnar supports Monero 23:52:47 "a guns and btc store, but I don..." <- And a conference 🙂 23:53:22 "wow I never thought I'd live..." <- He's been slowly turning, and I've been working on him here and there 🙂 23:53:22 There are many more like him in the Bitcoin crowd, and many will come with him to appreciate the tool that Monero is. 23:53:22 Very encouraging. 23:56:19 we can buy a conference? see if they have something in a monerokon 23:56:51 seems that we need some help 23:57:22 glad that you will be there sethsimmons