00:43:02 <crypto_grampy[m]> Just created a bounty for making a nice video tutorial on creating a Monero-accepting webstore for dummies.  Please donate/comment/share 😄 : https://bounties.monero.social/posts/29/video-tutorial-how-to-build-a-basic-wordpress-shop-that-accepts-monero-for-dummies
08:10:32 <mechanic41turk[m> Douglas Tuman should invite Ragnarly to MoneroTalk show: https://nitter.usethetools.org/GunsnBitcoin/status/1454868989880975361?s=20 
09:01:35 <ErCiccione> <xmrscott[m]> ""You missed the point of my post..." <- You keep not understanding that we are not talking about the bridge or appservice. Please read the conversation again with more attention. I also remind you that i gave a hand with the setup of Monero's matrix server, i currently manage Haveno's one and i gave suggestions for the configuration of synapse many times. Including when the set up was screwed up by community members that
09:01:35 <ErCiccione> wouldn't understand their mistake. I'm quite familiar with synapse and friends. I already told you a migration of the matrix server is in process to resolve some of the issues. It's not something any of us can "escalate to Libera" as you keep saying. The bridge, appservice or libera have nothing to do with this, so only people with access to the backend can do something about it.
09:09:17 <ErCiccione> Now. Going back to the point, i think we need a dedicated role for dealing with backend stuff. I think core disagrees, but i was assured the problems are now being worked on. I hope things are going to work this time, but i still think there is need of a dedicated figure tho.
10:19:08 <Inge> hm. Willy Woo sees XMR at "We care about privacy, but not really"
10:33:19 <Inge> https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1455105265255153668
10:49:05 <ComplyLast> shitpost something vague dont offer explanation
10:49:08 <ComplyLast> [x] check
10:51:25 <ComplyLast> also given mr. Woo particular set of expertise and business line I can see how he wouldn't like XMR. Kudos to that
11:19:47 <ErCiccione> You might want to start reconsider your support for Monerotopia and their conference: https://twitter.com/calciferciccio/status/1455127956410482691
11:22:03 <ErCiccione> No idea why a racist holocaust denier, which has anything to do with Monero is invited to a Monero conference, but the organizers do seems to have a passion for racists. I hope Tuman will reconsider his list of guests, because it would be a disgrace to tie such people to Monero
11:22:26 <ErCiccione> btw you can see that guy is invited here: monerotopia.com
11:23:33 <Inge> maybe it's a post-modern interpretation of "human rights activist"
11:26:29 <ComplyLast>  but the organizers do seems to have a passion for racists
11:26:36 <ComplyLast> I see 3 speakers kind of confirmed
11:26:44 <ComplyLast> who are the other racists?
11:26:56 <ComplyLast> Hyc and Daniel Kim?
11:28:07 <ErCiccione> i'm not referring to the other guests invited. I'm referring to the fact that vays seems to be welcome (another conspiracy theorist) at the conference, plus this: https://t.co/T7adnfjmea?amp=1
11:28:29 <ErCiccione> i think and hope hyc and daniel kim are not aware of what kind of individuals are welcome at this conference
11:58:35 <entry1[m]> Is it possible that not enough research was done on the backgrounds and that there is no intention of having anything remotely racist/antisemitic associated with Monero? Personally, I found out about Chris Sky last year from the video of him speaking about the government tyranny and lockdowns taking place, which was spot on. I agree 100% with the peaceful protests they're conducting and non-compliance, especially with the overreach of
11:58:35 <entry1[m]> the government's hand forcing the demise of small businesses while letting big businesses prosper. Doing some more digging I've seen his posts from over 5-10 years ago downplaying the Holocaust and other controversial topics, which I don't agree with. Is it possible that his views on the subjects have changed since? I've not heard him say anything remotely on those topics in any recent times and I am playing devil's advocate.
11:59:39 <entry1[m]> No hate is acceptable and I'm not minimalizing anyone else's words etc.
11:59:53 <entry1[m]> * I'm not intentionally minimalizing anyone
12:45:59 <Rucknium[m]> If they wanted controversial speakers, they could have just asked me 😉
12:48:14 <aberdeenik[m]> Rucknium[m]: What are your interests?
12:50:14 <Rucknium[m]> Economics. Statistics. Privacy.
12:51:29 <Rucknium[m]> aberdeenik: You arrived after this happened: About a month ago there was a bit of an uproar about some things I stated here: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/255
12:53:12 <Rucknium[m]> Some people on 4chan think I'm a government agent 😆
13:07:56 <ErCiccione> I don't know if "controversial" is the right word for somebody who claims "muslims and rape go along together like burghers and fries" and "black people lack the sofistication to make an advanced civilzation" or that hitler was "spot on" in his view of jewish people
13:08:36 <ErCiccione> Some of these claims are from a couple of years ago
13:08:48 <ErCiccione> if you want more: https://www.antihate.ca/antisemitic_islamophobic_racist_conspiracy_theorist_dominating_international_anti_mask_movement
13:09:51 <mechanic41turk[m> <ErCiccione> "No idea why a racist holocaust..." <- dude calm down
13:10:19 <mechanic41turk[m> the reason chris sky is invited is that doug mainly wants to branch out to the different online communities, in order to spread the message
13:11:12 <ErCiccione> Oh, holocaust deniers are welcome because they want to reach out to different online communities. That makes it fine!
13:11:14 <ErCiccione> jesus christ
13:11:16 <mechanic41turk[m> Also, I don't know if all the "ism" labeling that you put on Chris Sky is correct or not. His MoneroTalk interview was one of the good ones. He is putting a good fight against medical tyranny that's going on in the Canada and the US.
13:11:36 <mechanic41turk[m> ErCiccione: Let's just say, you don't like the dude.
13:12:39 <ErCiccione> > Also, I don't know if all the "ism" labeling that you put on Chris Sky is correct or not
13:12:39 <ErCiccione> Then you should probably do some research first? https://www.antihate.ca/antisemitic_islamophobic_racist_conspiracy_theorist_dominating_international_anti_mask_movement
13:13:22 <ErCiccione> mechanic41turk[m: I really hope this is not the community Monero is becoming, because if it is i don't want to be part of it
13:13:41 <mechanic41turk[m> ErCiccione: OK. You don't have to be part of the monerotopia conf then
13:14:11 <Rucknium[m]> mechanic41turk: These statements are pretty damning, assuming Sky actually made them and he has not condemned them retrospectively.
13:14:25 <mechanic41turk[m> I don't like this outing of individuals because of their personal beliefs, also their past social media posts--which may or may not have been genuine btw, quite easy to fake things on the net.
13:14:42 <ErCiccione> What a bunch of bullshit
13:15:57 <mechanic41turk[m> Rucknium[m]: That's his problem whether he made those or not. However, I really do not like this over sensitivity on part of some monero core (?) members on immediately taking a stance against people online just because they don't carry the same beliefs around covid vaccine, covid masking, or other leftish government policies.
13:15:58 <mechanic41turk[m> Just saying.
13:16:54 <carrington[m]> I'm pretty sure the main issue is the racism, not the covid stuff
13:18:15 <mechanic41turk[m> It is not your job to protect blacks, jews, or other minorities, etc. People who do not want to associate with these stuff can simply distance themselves from this. However, trying to denigrate efforts on part of Doug to promote monero is just not OK.
13:18:37 <mechanic41turk[m> What are we going to do? Research the past posting history of any and all the people that monero community gets associated with?
13:19:01 <ErCiccione> If people have to explain to you why associating holocaust deniers and racists with Monero is a bad thing, i don't think there is much to say
13:19:07 <mechanic41turk[m> I simply do not agree on this stance.
13:19:57 <mechanic41turk[m> ErCiccione: regarding holocaust and racism--that's simply your opinion. Some people who use monero may or may not hold these beliefs. Remember, there is something called free speech.
13:20:47 <Rucknium[m]> mechanic41turk: You are losing credibility by the minute.
13:20:55 <mechanic41turk[m> OK.
13:20:59 <ErCiccione> I hate the american school system
13:22:09 <carrington[m]> The only way I'd say it would be OK to invite such a person is if he had retracted/condemned his previous beliefs since then. People should have an opportunity to change for the better, although I haven't seen that in this case
13:22:42 <ErCiccione> carrington[m]: I agree, but in my experience this is very rarely the case.
13:23:32 <mechanic41turk[m> I don't care about muh credibility. I care about voicing a stance that I have, and believe me or not, many other people in this chat also share with: which is, this over zealous and over sensitivity about personal political beliefs and letting that color many of the decisions around monero.
13:23:32 <mechanic41turk[m> I am OK with Chris attending monero conf as far as he doesn't use his personal opinions around whatever divisive topic to color and divide the conference itself.
13:24:23 <mechanic41turk[m> He is doing a good job around warning people and putting together some non-violent demonstrations against the obviously tyrannical governmental policies.
13:25:01 <mechanic41turk[m> Go listen to his interview with Doug.
13:25:27 <mechanic41turk[m> https://odysee.com/@MoneroTalk:8/chris-sky-the-power-of-united-non:3
13:25:34 <carrington[m]> There's also a distinction between attending vs. being a features speaker or whatever
13:26:09 <Rucknium[m]> Can't we get some activists who are working against police brutality?
13:26:31 <ErCiccione> or literally anyone who hasn't expressed sympathy feelings toward nazis?
13:27:05 <carrington[m]> There are many activists who would seem to be better champions, that's for sure
13:27:05 <mechanic41turk[m> ErCiccione: Surely Dr Kim is attending.
13:34:40 <entry1[m]> <ErCiccione> "or literally anyone who hasn't..." <- Tricky road you're going down. No empathetic person would sympathize with what the Nazis stood for in terms of genocide, but the majority of them were German nationals who were brainwashed and weren't actively working in concentration camps. It is disgusting to see the amount of lives destroyed from the war, civilians and troops alike. Russians killed more civilians than the Nazis
13:34:40 <entry1[m]> did and that gets brushed under the rug. I'm not defending Chris Sky's statements at all and I acknowledge that concentration camps existed and mass murdered Jews and many others.
14:04:00 <mechanic41turk[m> I think this moral panic and purity spiraling that time and time again becomes visible here and on reddit needs to be tempered down. What Chris has wrote, some of them 10 years ago, some of them 2 years ago, are certainly ugly and tasteless. I am do not agree with what he has written down on some of the platforms.
14:04:00 <mechanic41turk[m> However, we all know the reason Doug has invited him to speak on MoneroTopia has no connection to Chris' ugly and tasteless postings of the past. As far as I can make it, Doug is interested in Chris because Chris is the underdog of the fight between what some of us perceive as a tyrannical measures against a portion of the Canadian society that came into form with the advent of Covid-19.
14:04:00 <mechanic41turk[m> That's it. It's not that Doug is upholding any of the "ism" with his invite of Chris. Doug is just wants to make an effort to rallying a larger audience around a tool that he sees beneficial to personal liberty, which is Monero.
14:13:09 <carrington[m]> I don't doubt Doug's good intentions at all, FWIW 
14:15:01 <mechanic41turk[m> I agree with this: https://nitter.usethetools.org/DontTraceMeBruh/status/1455174869050609665?cursor=LBkGJQYRAAA%253D#r
14:15:01 <carrington[m]> But I would advise anyone in his boots to either seek clarification about those statements, or to seek out a campaigner with similar goals without the baggage of racist statements
14:22:02 <Rucknium[m]> >But it is totally unfair to attack Doug or Monerotopia as if they are supposed to run background checks and know every single persons' opinions before allowing them to attend the event.
14:22:02 <Rucknium[m]> It is literally the job of conference organizers to vet speakers. Chris Sky is not just listed as attending. He is listed as one of only three "soapbox speakers" at this point.
14:26:25 <mechanic41turk[m> Well, the organizers may have vetted Chris according to his recent work, and not according to his decades long of social media posts.
14:26:48 <mechanic41turk[m> Regardless, the organizers will have the last say in this. And it is up to Doug to decide.
14:28:14 <mechanic41turk[m> https://nitter.usethetools.org/DouglasTuman/status/1455165578776297472#m
14:29:05 <Rucknium[m]> Hopefully sunchakr and Doug will take these recent revelations into account.
14:41:08 <Inge> These almost 2 Covid years have not been kind to Tone's mind
14:42:33 <ComplyLast> all the underlying issues were already there, in his defense.
14:44:07 <ComplyLast> really unfair to blame it on covid
14:44:27 <DaveyJones> yeah he already was a moron
14:44:44 <ComplyLast> i didn't wnat to put it that bluntly.
14:45:10 <DaveyJones> a master of words
15:20:29 <chad[m]1> > or literally anyone who hasn't expressed sympathy feelings toward nazis?
15:20:29 <chad[m]1> ErCiccione you gotta dial back your anti-nazi reactor. Just because one invitee made racist remarks a while back, does not mean literally everyone who's been invited is a nazi sympathizer. Take a deep breath. Everything is going to be ok.
15:20:52 <chad[m]1> * > or literally anyone who hasn't expressed sympathy feelings toward nazis?
15:20:52 <chad[m]1> ErCiccione you gotta dial back your anti-nazi reactor. Just because one invitee made racist remarks a while back, does not mean literally everyone who's been invited is a nazi sympathizer. Take a deep breath. Everything is going to be ok.
15:21:05 <crypto_grampy[m]> https://www.wired.com/story/white-house-market-dark-web-drugs-goes-down/
15:21:29 <crypto_grampy[m]> A few monero mentions in here 🙃
15:51:56 <xmrscott[m]> <mechanic41turk[m> "It is not your job to protect..." <- I mean, both on Reddit and on Libera.chat policy is in place to protect discrimination. "Both by our values and Swedish law, discrimination based on faith, ethnicity, sexual orientation, sex or gender expression, disability, or age is not permitted. Your personal values (e.g. religious, political, …) do not protect you if you participate in discrimination."
15:51:56 <xmrscott[m]> https://libera.chat/policies/
15:52:50 <xmrscott[m]> Not that much of a stretch to have a similar CoC at con(s) like Konferenco, etc
15:53:00 <xmrscott[m]> * to protect against discrimination. "Both
15:53:10 <mechanic41turk[m> xmrscott[m]: that's the chat's policy.
15:53:30 <mechanic41turk[m> xmrscott[m]: that's up to the monerotopia organizers to decide.
15:53:49 <xmrscott[m]> Black Hat, sister con to DEF CON has booted key speakers after uproar about revelations bout keynote speakers in the recent past
15:55:42 <xmrscott[m]> Yes, my point though is there is a standard within the community backbone (IRC and Reddit) to ban discriminatory behaviour. Obviously organizers can do whatever they want, I'm just highlighting the precedent set by the tools we use
15:56:30 <mechanic41turk[m> community backbone has spiraled out of the IRC and Reddit, tho.
15:56:39 <mechanic41turk[m> there are many other communities that are not using those two.
15:57:08 <mechanic41turk[m> regardless, these have no relation to the point discussed above.
15:58:01 <xmrscott[m]> tl;dr I echo carrington's thoughts that "There are many activists who would seem to be better champions, that's for sure"
16:06:27 <ErCiccione> <Rucknium[m]> "Hopefully sunchakr and Doug will..." <- Asked him directly on twitter since he hasn't answered to my post yet
16:23:31 <Rucknium[m]> A little something I've been working on:
16:23:32 <Rucknium[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/qkhjta/monero_resistant_to_statistical_attack/
16:37:03 <Rucknium[m]> If anyone wants to share it on Twitter or anything, the gif is probably better than the converted file that appears on Reddit:
16:37:04 <Rucknium[m]> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Rucknium/misc-research/main/Statistical-Monero-Logo/Statistical-Monero-Logo.gif
17:16:57 <fluffypony> lol that gif is awesome
17:23:29 <luigi1112> very cool ruck
17:54:37 <midnightmage[m]> That’s really nice, if I used Twitter I’d share that
18:15:23 <midnightmage[m]> You guys wanna hear something crazy, I moved in with the gf for COVID lockdown so she be my bubble and my lodger decided to claim he was my tenant and sent me a fake solicitors letter, after I had told him he had to leave as me and her we’re gonna move into my flat. I waited like 4 days when he was out packed all his stuff up changed the locks and kicked him out. Police told him get lost when they turned up, was so funny
18:15:23 <midnightmage[m]> seeing his face.
18:27:24 <spirobel[m]> > <@mechanic41turk:halogen.city> I think this moral panic and purity spiraling that time and time again becomes visible here and on reddit needs to be tempered down. What Chris has wrote, some of them 10 years ago, some of them 2 years ago, are certainly ugly and tasteless. I am do not agree with what he has... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f759391a733ab6edbc75d48361f37ba8435f6c74)
18:28:29 <mechanic41turk[m> spirobel: well said.
18:30:23 <mechanic41turk[m> I agree, it is the authoritarian outreach of the governments and supra-governmental organizations that are the real enemy. And that shouldn't be forgotten.
18:31:00 <mechanic41turk[m> Yeah, maybe she can be part of the monerotalk and tell people about how (if) she uses monero.
18:34:16 <chad[m]1> I'm not sure everyone in this room is antiauthoritarian. Lots of pro authoritarianism from several people here the last 24hrs
18:34:28 <mechanic41turk[m> haha
18:37:06 <crypto_grampy[m]> The conference needs a pro-authoritarian speaker, and far left person using Monero to help exterminate anti-vaxxers.  The best way to get people to gain mutual understanding is putting them in a room together and having conversations.  Not pushing them away IMO. 
18:37:35 <mechanic41turk[m> lol
18:37:49 <spirobel[m]> chad[m]1: everyone who uses monero is committing an anti authoritarian action. It does not matter if they are nazis, communists or libertarians.
18:38:08 <mechanic41turk[m> spirobel[m]: well said.
18:40:44 <chad[m]1> spirobel[m]: I completely agree. Monero is an antiauthoritarian technology 💯. I only meant to say recent messages in this room are very pro-authoritarian
18:40:59 <chad[m]1> Which is sad to see
18:46:06 <yggrasilnet[m]> chad: I don't think people will care if you personally find it sad to see
18:46:20 <mechanic41turk[m> I care.
18:46:23 <spirobel[m]> <chad[m]1> "I completely agree. Monero is an..." <- maybe we need to have an unspoken agreement in the monero communtiy: We will not cancel each other under any circumstances. Many far left and far right people use monero. But in the end people have to decide if the shitty ideology they arrived with is more important or monero. I say: fuck everyone who chooses ideology over monero. This is more important. But for outsiders we
18:46:23 <spirobel[m]> should show no mercy: use cancel culture or what ever you have at your disposal to attack them. People that advocate for KYC and AML regulation are the enemy. It does not matter how we defeat them it only matters that we defeat them. Either they or us go to jail. 
18:47:07 <yggrasilnet[m]> mechanic41turk: okay we 2 that care
18:47:49 <rbrunner> Either they or us go to jail? My, does this sound dramatic.
18:50:34 <spirobel[m]> rbrunner: yes it does. So what? People can buy dodge coin if they want to make jokes. This is revolution coin.
18:52:26 <mechanic41turk[m> sir I am here for the tech
18:53:43 <carrington[m]> Whatever ideology floats your boat is fine with me, but unrepentant racist bile is just the sign of a shitty person who lacks critical thinking and basic human compassion
18:54:18 <rbrunner> Even revolutions don't send half of people to jail, do they?
18:59:43 <chad[m]1> <yggrasilnet[m]> "chad: I don't think people..." <- Thanks, love you too
19:00:36 <spirobel[m]> <rbrunner> "Even revolutions don't send half..." <- I am not talking about half of the people. Its about labeling the people something that call us "terrorists" and money launderers. In a heated political environment labels like this can lead to real world consequences quite quickly. Look at the recent "red new deal" in china for example.  
19:01:12 <yggrasilnet[m]> chad: I don't mean it personally, I really haven't read this chat. I just hate arguments based upon social shaming.
19:01:21 <rbrunner> That makes much sense, thanks.
19:01:29 <rbrunner> *much more
19:01:49 <chad[m]1> yggrasilnet[m]: I think you and I are in agreement then :)
19:08:41 <chad[m]1> > I say: Fuck anyone who chooses ideology over Monero
19:08:41 <chad[m]1> Where do I buy a shirt that says this, lol
19:16:23 <spirobel[m]> <carrington[m]> "Whatever ideology floats your..." <- there is two things: 1.people like chris sky are out there under extreme pressure and narratives get crafted that blow might blow things out of proportion. Hes is an Alex Jones type figure. Even claimed to be inspired by him in the interview with Doug. He also might blow things out of proportion by himself. 2. The question is: how do we deal with it if we might not like some of
19:16:23 <spirobel[m]> the things he says? I think canceling is absolutely the wrong move. Counterbalancing is the right move! Bring in people like chivona newsome. I am super interested to see these two groups of people come together in one place.  Because I think the narrative that is being crafted in the media, that BLM and people like chris sky are opposites is plain wrong. Monero is political tech and inviting these poltical actors into the monero
19:16:23 <spirobel[m]> space can be a great strategy to gain more exposure.
19:16:33 <spirobel[m]> s/is/are/
19:16:52 <spirobel[m]> s/is/are/, s/blow//
19:29:25 <user71432> interesting
19:32:40 <carrington[m]> Seems like a pointless distraction when there are all sorts of privacy/freedom activists without the baggage.
19:36:41 <xmrscott[m]> Yeah, seems like a rather silly argument to make in light of stuff like FSF and Stallman. Plenty of technical people who can push privacy forward w/o making the news cycle around an org or FOSS about harassment, etc
19:37:30 <midnightmage[m]> Liberals are the problem, the left and the right can usually agree on stuff, liberals use identity politics to further the agenda of the ruling elite
19:45:15 <plowsof[m]> <user71432> "interesting" <- i sent this message from irc using a python script and it was bridged fine 🙈
19:45:27 <xmrscott[m]> If you want to make generalized statements about politics you would be best served going to -offtopic. Engaging in racist behaviour has no place on IRC or the social tools bridged to it because it's literally coded into the host's policy.
19:47:07 <mechanic41turk[m> ffs
19:47:13 <mechanic41turk[m> nobody is engaging in racist behavior here.
19:47:21 <mechanic41turk[m> stop hammering this.
19:48:40 <mechanic41turk[m> borderline concern trolling.
19:48:48 <carrington[m]> Nobody here was accused of it. Scott was just stating facts
19:49:02 <xmrscott[m]> We have had people DM contributors both on social media and spam them w/ racial slurs.
19:49:23 <xmrscott[m]> *both on social media and IRC
19:49:34 <xmrscott[m]> * w/ racial/homophobic slurs.
19:54:09 <mechanic41turk[m> yeah. that's why it's called "spam."
19:57:09 <xmrscott[m]> Yes, I'm just reiterating the point that DM'ing people slurs and then banning them from IRC channels is not 'cancel culture'. You don't balance out that kind of behaviour here in IRC-land by keeping said person on and just inviting the NAACP chair or whatever
19:57:36 <xmrscott[m]> People may conflate whatever con policy w/ IRC policy so I'm making the distinction now
19:57:52 <mechanic41turk[m> Nobody said DM'ing racial slurs on IRC results in cancel culture banning them afaik
19:58:58 <mechanic41turk[m> >You don't balance out that kind of behaviour here in IRC-land by keeping said person on and just inviting the NAACP chair or whatever
19:59:08 <mechanic41turk[m> Ok, that's conflating a lot of things.
19:59:16 <mechanic41turk[m> "The said person": is this Chris Sky?
19:59:32 <mechanic41turk[m> If so, are you saying Chris himself DM'ed contributors on IRC and called them racial slurs?
19:59:56 <xmrscott[m]> "The question is: how do we deal with it if we might not like some of the things he says?" If he makes slurs towards contributors here in IRC-land he would likely get banned. You don't get a free pass from having a following
20:00:49 <mechanic41turk[m> Nobody in here said that if Chris Sky himself joining here right in this room and reiterating his bad-taste posts from 10 years back would be welcomed.
20:01:03 <mechanic41turk[m> And I think that is being so is as clear as day among everyone.
20:02:38 <xmrscott[m]> As someone who has watched both Reddit and IRC I can tell you as Monero gets more popular there is a shift towards (temp) banning anyone from engaging in behaviour that violates policy as seen as 'censorship'
20:03:44 <xmrscott[m]> * as 'censorship' or 'cancel culture'
20:04:10 <xmrscott[m]> So again, just making it sure given words like 'cancel culture' are being thrown around, what's what on Matrix/IRC
20:04:28 <mechanic41turk[m> Yeah, OK.
20:04:53 <mechanic41turk[m> However, I would also like to point out that all this comes off as passive-aggressive tone-controlling among the chat participants.
20:05:10 <mechanic41turk[m> We don't need to be reminded "RACISM BAD" every other 10th post.
20:05:50 <xmrscott[m]> Am I and others saying 'RACISM BAD' every 10th post? Pretty sure that's not the case
20:06:07 <unscottable[m]> would george floyd have used monero? hm? see if he had used xmr to pay for that food at the gas station it wouldve all been avoided 
20:06:14 <unscottable[m]> 👆🏻
20:06:20 <mechanic41turk[m> xmrscott[m]: not every 10th post, but, make it every 50th or whatever. Point is, it makes many people in this room having to have to walk on the eggshells.
20:06:38 <mechanic41turk[m> I don't have to share your morality towards all the issues.
20:09:24 <xmrscott[m]> Sure, I'm not here to talk about morality, just the policy set by host. :)
20:09:31 <unscottable[m]> i imagine floyds visage with a monero symbol under it. could be a good ad campaign 
20:10:38 <unscottable[m]> you cant have a counterfeit monero you see 
20:10:48 <xmrscott[m]> And if you look at a week's worth of scrollback I think it'd be far from '50th or whatever'. Not making slurs towards people shouldn't be equated to walking eggshells. Really not hard to make slurs in here.
20:11:27 <mechanic41turk[m> xmrscott[m]: sure. again, the problem is, I am not seeing (haven't been seeing) racist slurs being thrown in this room--so why the preemptive finger wagging?
20:11:31 <unscottable[m]> well wheres the list of slurs 
20:11:48 <mechanic41turk[m> unscottable: calm down bro
20:12:01 <xmrscott[m]> * hard to not make slurs
20:12:06 <unscottable[m]> id like a list so i know counts as a slur 
20:12:08 <Rucknium[m]> unscottable[m]: Interesting idea. Monero in particular, and the cryptosphere generally, have not done much to reach out to the left wing.
20:12:43 <unscottable[m]> * i know what counts as
20:13:24 * unscottable[m] uploaded an audio file: (79KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/antioptic.com/SMjuLieNRGqIAOfEnlTtNiUo/Voice%20message.ogg >
20:13:51 <xmrscott[m]> Anywho, I've said my bit for conversation, no need for me to drag it out longer than it needs to be. tl;dr Whatever your ideology is and thoughts on 'cancel culture' are, Libera.chat policy is here: https://libera.chat/policies/
20:14:05 <mechanic41turk[m> OK. Good.
20:14:40 <plowsof[m]> 🧘
20:14:53 <unscottable[m]> Both by our values and Swedish law, discrimination based on faith, ethnicity, sexual orientation, sex or gender expression, disability, or age is not permitted. Your personal values (e.g. religious, political, …) do not protect you if you participate in discrimination.
20:15:34 <unscottable[m]> gender expression lol oh jeez 
20:15:52 <nioc> I'll make it simple, be good
20:15:59 <nioc> shouldn't be that hard
20:16:25 <unscottable[m]> i guess tranny counts as a slur then eh 
20:16:30 <carrington[m]> If the conversation is actually on topic then none of those should ever be a problem
20:16:48 <mechanic41turk[m> carrington[m]: this.
20:17:35 <mechanic41turk[m> All of this started because ErCiccione started a moral panic around a particular choice of a speaker that Doug chose for the monero conf he is preparing.
20:17:42 <unscottable[m]> do the rules apply in offtopic too or what 
20:19:08 <carrington[m]> mechanic41turk[m: To be fair, I'd say that is on topic. Talking about the implications of this doesn't have to lead to room participants breaking the ToS was my point.
20:19:57 <carrington[m]> Although strictly speaking it is more on topic in other places such as monero-events or Doug's DMs
20:19:58 <mechanic41turk[m> carrington[m]: I agree. And then came reprimanding remarks around ToS in this room, and how we shouldn't break it.
20:20:16 <mechanic41turk[m> While we weren't the ones uttering the slurs or whatever.
20:20:42 <Rucknium[m]> Keep in mind that now Doug is being paid to promote Monero through the Monero CCS.
20:22:12 <carrington[m]> That makes it pretty on topic here then as this is often the main CCS discussion forum
20:23:35 <Rucknium[m]> Here's the link to the CCS: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/DTuman_6months_full-time_on_monero-projects.html
20:25:02 <unscottable[m]> s/i guess tranny counts as a slur then eh/i guess the t-word counts as a slur then eh /
20:25:45 <Rucknium[m]> The MoneroTopia conference is listed as one of the projects he is working on as part of the CCS proposal.
20:29:51 <unscottable[m]> <unscottable[m]> "Both by our values and Swedish..." <- i gotta say the last part of this seems islamophobic 
20:36:59 <midipoet> damn, I missed the drama.
20:39:45 <nioc> lucky you :)
20:40:30 <libre_> They say Bitcoin is money for enemies 
20:40:37 <libre_> Monero is supposed to be better than Bitcoin
20:40:48 <libre_> But what you guys are proposing is the opposite
20:40:53 <libre_> Monero is money for allies only now?
20:40:57 <libre_> IMO thats contrary to Monero spirit
20:41:19 <midipoet> honestly. I blockchained for the drugs, stayed for the girls, and then got addicted to the drama. 
20:43:43 <crypto_grampy[m]> libre_: just because i'm okay with someone using it to buy nefarious items doesn't i need to  a heroin addict at my conference telling people how good it feels
20:43:59 <crypto_grampy[m]> s/just because i'm okay with someone using it to buy nefarious items doesn't i need to  a heroin addict at my conference telling people how good it feels/just because i'm okay with someone using it to buy nefarious items doesn't mean i want to have a heroin addict at my conference telling people how good it feels/
20:44:07 <sgp_> it's not about who uses monero, it's about who I want to spend my time with. and I don't want to spend time with people who make bad-faith arguments
20:45:18 <mechanic41turk[m> midipoet: that's the spirit.
20:46:05 <unscottable[m]> crypto_grampy[m]: does being a heroin addict count as a disability or what 
20:46:15 <nioc> sigh
20:46:15 <Rucknium[m]> midipoet: #monero-beef:monero.social will always be there for you.
20:47:09 <sudo_ki[m]> Rucknium[m]: This should be used more often
20:47:12 <libre_> Monero is about fungability. You can use that pov beyond money. Holdig people money or words on the record forever is antiethical to monero. Cancel culture only exists because of the lack of fungability.
20:48:00 <sudo_ki[m]> Lol what a ridiculous argument
20:48:26 <sudo_ki[m]> Cancel culture exists because of the socially a moral
20:48:45 <unscottable[m]> everyone who disagrees with me is evil 
20:49:03 <entry1[m]> Chris Sky was a good speaker in the Monero Talk episode and did not say anything remotely racist or offensive in it. I have nothing against him speaking about the current state of affairs and need for privacy/Monero. If he wants to denounce previous things he posted, I think it could help him.
20:49:42 <midipoet> Who is Chris Sky?
20:49:44 <carrington[m]> Monero is a neutral tool but that doesn't mean we have to be neutral to tool-like behavior
20:49:57 <mechanic41turk[m> midipoet: see his monerotalk interview
20:50:09 <midipoet> Are all you stateside getting all solipsistic again?
20:50:13 <mechanic41turk[m> https://odysee.com/@MoneroTalk:8/chris-sky-the-power-of-united-non:3
20:50:25 <midipoet> Ok ok. I will go listen.
20:50:33 * unscottable[m] uploaded an audio file: (18KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/antioptic.com/ZrztOZqJDETIswWedhqGpLDb/Voice%20message.ogg >
20:52:01 <sgp_> Monero advocate. Reason for the drama is he is a hardcore, outspoken covid denier. From today for example: https://twitter.com/chrissaccoccia1/status/145519810587638579
20:52:05 <sudo_ki[m]> midipoet: Oo i learnt a new word today, ty
20:53:23 <carrington[m]> Nah the drama is racist statements made in the past
20:54:18 <unscottable[m]> "covid denier" lol 
20:54:20 <mechanic41turk[m> sgp_: tweet got deleted?
20:54:28 <sgp_> oh I must have missed those then
20:55:25 <libre[m]> The drama is wanting speakers to be KYC’d
20:55:29 <Rucknium[m]> midipoet: People seem to be more upset about this than the Covid stuff:
20:55:29 <Rucknium[m]> https://www.antihate.ca/antisemitic_islamophobic_racist_conspiracy_theorist_dominating_international_anti_mask_movement
20:55:47 <Rucknium[m]> I am not sure about the authenticity of the evidence cited, however.
20:55:53 <mechanic41turk[m> Rucknium[m]: this.
20:56:00 <libre[m]> Chainalysis but for tweets, to flag tainted tweets.
20:56:12 <libre[m]> That's what some people seem to like here
20:56:12 <carrington[m]> Opinions on covid one way or another does not inherently make you a bad person on its own. Unrepentant racist bile on the other hand...
20:56:24 <mechanic41turk[m> carrington[m]: agreed.
20:57:14 <mechanic41turk[m> however, I don't know if he is "unrepentant", and I don't see myself holier than him to judge whether he repented or not.
20:57:22 <sgp_> it's not just an opinion on covid though, it's literally fake news meant to incite without any regard for accuracy
20:57:28 <unscottable[m]> lol repent is a funny word to use 
20:57:45 <libre[m]> repent or else...
20:58:01 <mechanic41turk[m> All is, I liked his talk on Doug's show. I like what he is doing with peaceful noncompliance against tyrannical covid regulations in canada, and I think he can be part of the monerotopia.
20:58:20 <mechanic41turk[m> sgp_: tweet was deleted, I couldn't see it.
20:58:49 <midipoet> And he is gonna speak at a Monero event?
20:58:53 <sgp_> it appears pinned at the top of his twitter still
20:58:59 <libre[m]> Ciphertracing peoples past activity is anti-monero IMO
20:59:01 <mechanic41turk[m> sgp_: let me check again. cheers.
20:59:03 <sgp_> > <@rucknium:monero.social> midipoet: People seem to be more upset about this than the Covid stuff:
20:59:03 <sgp_> > https://www.antihate.ca/antisemitic_islamophobic_racist_conspiracy_theorist_dominating_international_anti_mask_movement
20:59:03 <sgp_> jeez this is bleak
21:00:43 <mechanic41turk[m> sgp_: yeah, I see. It's just like his own opinion. I don't know whether his claims bear truth--I didn't check his sources to verify it. Maybe they hold true. Remember, people mocked him back when he warned against Covid vaccine passports and medical segregation of society that's indeed happening right now.
21:00:50 <sudo_ki[m]> Personally I'm not surprised doug has asked this person to speak   
21:01:51 <sudo_ki[m]> He speaks with confidence and is pro monero 
21:01:54 <unscottable[m]> the current democratic state and its media is pumping out numerous pieces on XMR being used by neonazis, racists, antisemites and so on.
21:02:08 <unscottable[m]> this will only escalate
21:03:01 <unscottable[m]> the international monetary system will continue to single out us as being nonbelievers of the current belief system, in any way they can. 
21:03:13 <unscottable[m]> you better buckle up and get used to it. 
21:04:02 <unscottable[m]> * they can. whether true or not.
21:04:24 <sgp_> well here is a chance to help prove otherwise and we invite a clearly racist asshole to be a prominent speaker
21:04:38 <mechanic41turk[m> lol
21:05:11 <rbrunner> But ... he is *our* asshole?
21:05:19 <unscottable[m]> the system will diminish whatever proof you give and amplify any proof to the contrary. 
21:05:31 <unscottable[m]> that is how it functions. 
21:06:27 <sudo_ki[m]> sgp_: I haven't seen any rasict statements, can you help? 
21:06:49 <sgp_> look, I agree that no matter what we do, Monero will constantly have to deal with misleading/bad press. That's just the way it is with new technology no one understands that is being used by bad people
21:06:54 <crypto_grampy[m]> doesn't chris sky drive around with a muslim guy and his wife for most of his videos?  
21:06:59 <sgp_> BUT
21:07:14 <sgp_> that's not a blank check to elevate those voices
21:07:45 <unscottable[m]> the daily stormer has an XMR address but so does egalitarian entities 
21:07:58 <mechanic41turk[m> crypto_grampy[m]: what
21:07:58 <unscottable[m]> that is the beauty of XMR, id embrace it. 
21:08:18 <unscottable[m]> they will always highlight one and not the other 
21:08:47 <midipoet> I am listening to the podcast. He just sounds like a shouty American, except he is Canadian. 
21:09:02 <mechanic41turk[m> midipoet: +1
21:09:08 <sgp_> yeah but this is about what we are doing, not about them
21:10:54 <sudo_ki[m]> Ok... I found the racism in that article
21:13:09 <mechanic41turk[m> also check the timestamp of him posting those
21:13:11 <midipoet> I would rather this dude not be a headline speaker at a Monero event, cause he sounds like an idiot
21:13:57 <mechanic41turk[m> again, I also wouldn't like to over rule that those might be fabricated--tho chances to that are slim.
21:14:18 <sudo_ki[m]> Yea, pretty old
21:14:32 <midipoet> But if Doug is organising the event, I guess, Doug chooses? 
21:15:01 <selsta> it's community funded
21:15:01 <mechanic41turk[m> midipoet: I agree.
21:15:26 <midipoet> selsta: then the community should have a say
21:15:35 <midipoet> I say he is an idiot
21:15:52 <midipoet> Mr Sky. But I don't know him that well, admittedly
21:15:53 <Rucknium[m]> If Doug wanted a controversial speaker, he could have chosen me 😉
21:16:01 <sudo_ki[m]> The problem with people like that is because they're very good at being critcal listeners, they loose faith in society as a whole and start concocting weird belief systems with the facts they can get their hands on
21:16:32 <sudo_ki[m]> midipoet: Here here
21:18:03 <sudo_ki[m]> I think he needs to repent thoroughly before getting community approval 
21:18:27 <mechanic41turk[m> sgp_: chris sky says "he is being called racist but he is married to an asian"
21:18:34 <mechanic41turk[m> timestamp 16:10 on the monerotalk interview
21:18:48 <mechanic41turk[m> he also says his best friend is a muslim imam.
21:18:55 <selsta> ???
21:18:57 <mechanic41turk[m> he sounds pretty repentant to me.
21:19:38 <sgp_> Is this a bad joke
21:19:55 <mechanic41turk[m> no
21:20:52 <sudo_ki[m]> I get that he doesn't think he's a racist and i questioned it to, but at times there he certainly makes racist statements, perhaps unknowingly. Generalisation tend to be inherently racist and if you use statistics to support your argument, then you're just an idiot 
21:20:55 <carrington[m]> Neither of those things are addressing racist public statements made in the past
21:21:07 <sudo_ki[m]> s/to/toi/
21:22:00 <sudo_ki[m]> s/to/too/
21:25:55 <midipoet> I do think it's good to have spaces where all walks of life can discuss their views/ideologies/perspectives though, especially if there are common intersections that mightn't be immediately obvious. Maybe if this Chris Sky person is that "inflammatory" perhaps Doug should think about trying to ensure a well-balanced speaker lineup? (if he/the community wants to keep him in)
21:29:43 <mechanic41turk[m> midipoet: someone else suggested another social activist from NYC
21:30:08 <mechanic41turk[m> https://twitter.com/ScooterCasterNY/status/1441416418919124992
21:30:40 <mechanic41turk[m> I am OK with both of them speaking about how they use monero in their social activism.
21:30:50 <mechanic41turk[m> nitter link here: https://nitter.snopyta.org/ScooterCasterNY/status/1441416418919124992
21:31:53 <sudo_ki[m]> This is a good compromise
21:32:03 <carrington[m]> I fail to see how this guy or anything he has to say actually furthers monero's cause tbh, but maybe that's just me
21:32:22 <mechanic41turk[m> carrington: it definitely furthers monero's reach
21:32:47 <mechanic41turk[m> these are the guys and their ilk need the monero the most.
21:32:55 <mechanic41turk[m> the dissenters.
21:33:24 <midipoet> I guess he is quite topical
21:33:30 <carrington[m]> The only connection I see is "PayPal bans controversial people" which I think everyone already knows. 
21:33:35 <midipoet> As is the other proposed NYC activist
21:33:49 <midipoet> But I didn't think that was the reason for Monerotopia
21:33:56 <midipoet> But perhaps it should be?
21:33:57 <mechanic41turk[m> carrington[m]: not only paypal but all the visa/mastercard etc. etc.
21:34:05 <mechanic41turk[m> it is a total economic shutdown
21:34:06 <mechanic41turk[m> no joke.
21:34:14 <mechanic41turk[m> why downplay it?
21:34:56 <kinghat[m]> i didnt gather he was a "covid denier" from dougs podcast, just that he was against vaccine mandates and passports. i also didnt gather that he knew all that much about monero 🤷‍♂️
21:35:42 <carrington[m]> I'd much rather someone present a whole mix of examples of activists and organizations being excluded by the arbitrary shutdown by PayPal, visa etc.
21:38:55 <Rucknium[m]> Maybe we should have u/nokoolaidisaidthnx speak. Apparently he is doing some very "interesting" work on the U.S./Mexico border that tangentially involves Monero. I gather this from his public posts on r/xmrtrader
21:39:28 <selsta> There are people in the weed industry who get excluded from regular banking, sex workers, so many more. No need to invite someone quoting antisemitic trash from Mein Kampf?
21:41:22 <mechanic41turk[m> <kinghat[m]> "i didnt gather he was a "covid..." <- +1
21:42:35 <Rucknium[m]> selsta: There is now an onlycoins.app . It is BCH-focused, but I believe they deal in multiple cryptocurrencies and possibly Monero.
21:43:19 <Rucknium[m]> ^ Um, NSFW warning on that link I suppose.
21:43:58 <mechanic41turk[m> Rucknium[m]: it's a shame that no monero undertaking was the trail blazer there
21:44:13 <mechanic41turk[m> OF banning sex workers should've been a great opportunity for monero.
22:09:08 <GQSS[m]> <mechanic41turk[m> "OF banning sex workers should've..." <- Popularising the use of Monero as payment for whores will greatly help the cause, especially in countries were prostitution is banned. 
22:16:53 <kinghat[m]> <selsta> "There are people in the weed..." <- ya I don't know anything about the guy other than Doug's interview. I wasn't trying to endorse him by any means.
22:20:28 <doaflip[m]> is there a way to click from media to go to the message in chat?
22:20:53 <doaflip[m]> <selsta> "There are people in the weed..." <- afaik, nazis are already into monero. i've seen a few online promoting it.
22:22:10 <selsta> and...?
22:22:27 <doaflip[m]> selsta: just saying there's no need to promote it to them since they'll find their way here anyway
22:24:12 <mechanic41turk[m> Who in here promoting monero to nazis?
22:25:20 <selsta> doaflip[m]: sure, monero is permissionless technology, everyone can use it
22:25:39 <doaflip[m]> selsta: yup
22:30:54 <chad[m]12> <carrington[m]> "The only connection I see is "..." <- Its easy to feel like everybody knows this, if you talk to crypto people every day. As someone who spends a lot of time talking to tech-illiterate non-techies, this notion is not as ubiquitous as you make it sound.
22:32:10 <libre[m]> Protocol enforced neutrality > Woke enforced society
22:39:16 <escapethe3ra[m]> https://www.monero.observer/monero-observer-blitz-october-2021/
22:52:37 <crypto_grampy[m]> <escapethe3ra[m]> "https://www.monero.observer/..." <- You're crushing it.  
23:02:38 <chaser[m]> my monerod's p2p port is open but I can't for the love of me get incoming connections. halp.
23:21:19 <pigeons> I've verified that libera <-> matrix plumbing for #monero-gui and #monero-pools is working properly, and Matrix support said it is now.
23:22:33 <pigeons> They said they were going to lookinto the remaining non-working rooms, #monero-space, #monero-swap, #monero, and #monero-hardware on 15 October
23:22:53 <pigeons> I've not received any follow-up or confirmation that this actually happened on 15 Oct.
23:29:30 <sethsimmons> Thanks for the updates, pigeons @pigeons:libera.chat