07:24:10 <libre[m]> I have some controversial thoughts about MobileCoin. I think it will eventually be a good thing for Monero.
07:24:29 <libre[m]> In the same way that CBDCs will drive up adoption of crypto
07:25:44 <libre[m]> By two fronts. Driving home the importance of privacy coins, eliminating the stigma ( signal has good reputation with journos and other normies that would normally see privacy coins as something bad )
07:26:20 <libre[m]> Once people are aware of the importance of privacy coins they will inevitable find out that the better and best one is Monero
07:27:47 <libre[m]> In the same way that some people start their journey with shitcoins to later transition into actual valuable projects
07:41:48 <xamnra[m]> <libre[m]> "Once people are aware of the..." <- Not necessarily. People will be brainwashed into thinking signal/mobile coin as good enough, and matrix/monero are for criminals.
08:50:27 <apollyon[m]> briar anyone?
08:51:06 <apollyon[m]> the average joe doesnt even use signal
08:54:39 <apollyon[m]> https://briarproject.org/
08:54:56 <apollyon[m]> p2p through tor
08:59:02 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> All these messaging apps.
08:59:02 <bridgerton[m]> Just send me encrypted mail
10:23:41 <adamantium[m]> where can i buy some xmr without KYC
10:23:50 <adamantium[m]> no bisq pls
10:40:25 <ComplyLast> adamantium[m] localmonero ?
10:42:39 <adamantium[m]> need to find a trader who doesnt require kyc first on that platform
10:44:07 <ComplyLast> ATMs that sell monero?
10:44:23 <ComplyLast> Fiat to crypto kycless is not easy
10:44:31 <ComplyLast> regardless if its Monero or anythng else
10:45:24 <adamantium[m]> whats up with haveno? 
10:45:38 <ComplyLast> work in progress
10:45:47 <jonah_xd[m]> Still under development
10:47:37 <adamantium[m]> ok ty
13:36:27 <UXP[m]> <adamantium[m]> "no bisq pls" <- Hi,  if you don't mind could you explain why you would not want to use bisq?
13:36:59 <midipoet> libre[m]: will users of MobileCoin not just think it's a cryprocurrency built into signal? The average Joe doesn't know the difference between a cryprocurrency and a privacy orientated cryptocurrency, and also doesn't really care. 
13:39:08 <adamantium[m]> UXP[m]: hey! i dont have any btc
13:44:05 <ComplyLast> 2nd hypothesis no one will use MobileCoin
13:45:47 <ajs_[m]> Getting normies to use signal in the first place would be an achievement
13:45:52 <carrington[m]> I don't see how MOB retains regulated fiat onramps if XMR doesn't
13:52:03 <xamnra[m]> <ajs_[m]> "Getting normies to use signal in..." <- It could also make normies unwilling to further switch to real privacy software/coin.
13:52:31 <ComplyLast> every normie  I know doesn't trust SGX
13:55:18 <ComplyLast> <carrington[m]> I don't see how MOB retains regulated fiat onramps if XMR doesn't
13:55:20 <ComplyLast> they wouldn't
13:58:16 <Inge> .usd
14:15:04 <setvin[m]> according to money laundering regulations exchanges are required to keep and share their own records, thats the only legal requirement
14:15:15 <setvin[m]> theres nothing that says anything about blockchains or tracking assets once they get into customers hands. 
14:15:36 <setvin[m]> At least as far as I've found, happy to be corrected if im misinformed 
14:17:58 <setvin[m]> this regulation makes me imagine collusion between exchanges is quite easy, seemingly encouraged. Who is monitoring this? Seemingly no one. Exchanges self report, hide what they wish, but of course if their customers had the same privileges this wouldn't work right? 
14:18:41 <setvin[m]> the "early adopters" who laid out all this flimsy framework will have it washed away by regulation, Is my guess
14:20:44 <UXP[m]> <adamantium[m]> "hey! i dont have any btc" <- ok, ty makes sense seems to be a recurring issue, hopefully bisq can make changes to accommodate for this soon. 
15:57:15 <adamantium[m]> <UXP[m]> "ok, ty makes sense seems to be a..." <- its based on btc though, thats why im waiting for haveno
16:15:19 <setvin[m]> haveno is more based on XMR?
16:16:44 <setvin[m]> what are thoughts on XMR entering a smart chain? I personally dont like leverage but I do like interoperability. 
16:17:30 <cafkafk[m]> I don't like business ventures in crypto
16:18:10 <cafkafk[m]> So to me it's more or less a question of "is this x technology" run by a company or a *community*
16:18:44 <setvin[m]> I think the closest coin that shares are vlaues is BCH and was thinking of smartbch
16:18:59 <setvin[m]> from what I gather its not very centralized
16:19:12 <setvin[m]> s/are/our/
16:19:26 <setvin[m]> I havent used smartbch but was just asking what people think of the idea. If done right of course
16:20:31 <cafkafk[m]> setvin[m]: It looks like a for-profit, so personally I would sidestep
16:20:40 <setvin[m]> fair
16:20:53 <cafkafk[m]> I mean of course they could built their tech on top of monero
16:21:01 <setvin[m]> Once you understand what is happening here it's hard to go anywhere else.
16:21:10 <cafkafk[m]> But like, it should not be a tight integration from the monero communities side
16:22:01 <setvin[m]> Just based on my experience interacting with some of the more notable users of BCH, it would seem our values align. 
16:22:13 <setvin[m]> Of course appearances are always deceptive. 
16:22:33 <setvin[m]> Either way the certainly seem to appreciate my representation of monero in their communities.
16:22:49 <setvin[m]> s/Either way the certainly seem to appreciate my representation of monero in their communities./Either way they certainly seem to appreciate my representation of monero in their communities. They understand the value./
16:23:24 <Rucknium[m]> cafkafk: To my knowledge, smartBCH was mostly funded by donations. 1000 BCH worth of donations. Of course, there could be "backroom deals" that make the donations more like investments. See http://flipstarter.smartbch.org/
16:23:35 <cafkafk[m]> I mean, even if they do now, I'm just skeptical of business, as any for profit business that is run to survive will always be ready to sink their teeth into you. I'm partially a monero maximalist because it's untethered by corporate control, which is the only way I see a true decentralized, and private crypto to ever be feasible
16:24:38 <Rucknium[m]> setvin: My understanding is that the smartBCH's protocol's level of centralization is currently "medium", but will be "low" within the next few months as they figure out some technical challenges.
16:24:39 <setvin[m]> A lot of people have ill things to say about us, so I always take everything with a grain of salt.
16:24:48 <setvin[m]> If you ask around all of us have infinite moneros floating around
16:25:14 <cafkafk[m]> Rucknium[m]: But it's a for profit business regardless, as least as far as I can read. maybe I'm wrong, but that's my main gripe, same with ETH, which I think is killer tech but it's irellavant when it's not out of control of a single entity.
16:26:46 <setvin[m]> eventually these open source projects will have to accept the fact that more than 6 people will use it.
16:27:36 <cafkafk[m]> I mean, there are "open source" projects that are used by billions, being corporate is in no way a ceiling to growth
16:27:56 <setvin[m]> theyre considered "bloated" look how ubuntu gets dogged
16:28:05 <cafkafk[m]> Ubuntu deserves it
16:28:15 <cafkafk[m]> They send amazon your local file searches
16:28:26 <setvin[m]> with mass adoption comes such sacrifices. I have not seen or heard of a better solution.
16:28:54 <setvin[m]> growing pains are quite natural. 
16:28:55 <cafkafk[m]> Like, that's obviously not okay, but that is also literally because ubuntu literally is run by for profit
16:29:07 <cafkafk[m]> We don't have that stuff in all the non-profit distros
16:29:22 <setvin[m]> just a bit of social commentary on my part regarding the more prolific users of open source software
16:29:22 <cafkafk[m]> Because there is literally no one that could earn money from doing deceptive stuff like that
16:29:46 <nioc> ubuntu no longer does that
16:29:53 <setvin[m]> we're in a unique situation because the entire project is money
16:29:53 <cafkafk[m]> Well, gotta admit that it's a cherrypick
16:29:54 <nioc> did for a short while
16:30:11 <nioc> but yeah
16:30:15 <setvin[m]> even if you came here to do "charity work" there could be quite the argument made for self motivation
16:30:29 <cafkafk[m]> nioc: The point is that these problems arise when for-profit is in charge, it's not about the actuality but about creating the best possible structure to shepherd the project
16:30:56 <cafkafk[m]> setvin[m]: Well, there is no one saying that a non-profit can not make contractors a killing, like, look at the crowdfunding efforts of the monero project
16:31:02 <nioc> hence my "but yeah"  :)
16:31:13 <cafkafk[m]> Just that the governing of the project should not be motivated by profit is not the same as all the contributors being poor
16:31:44 <cafkafk[m]> At least in my experience, havign deep knowledge of free software and open source projects, that you can only get from being a contributer, is how you land some great jobs
16:31:57 <cafkafk[m]> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:32:05 <cafkafk[m]> That's how I feel about it lol
16:32:05 <setvin[m]> My belief is similar to others - I think this technology will ultimately benefit mankind. With that belief in mind, my path is clear.
16:35:48 <setvin[m]>  History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. He who passively accepts evil is as much involved
16:35:48 <setvin[m]> in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
16:35:48 <setvin[m]> Martin Luther King, Jr. 
16:57:56 <setvin[m]> speaking of communties
16:58:12 <setvin[m]> s/speaking of communties/on the topic of speaking up:/
16:59:00 <setvin[m]> we are we allowing shitcoins a platform to shill on our communities? There are people integrating with our discord server using it to promote outside products. No one seems to be speaking out about it.
16:59:02 * setvin[m] uploaded an image: (66KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/gJtaFacHJqidIeUALnSYBhLn/image.png >
17:05:19 <jwinterm[m]> You and Rucknium in here shilling btrash...
17:08:08 <setvin[m]> Thanks for your concern. You seem to show up everywhere that I do. Don't you have a lot projects you could be working on?
17:08:38 <setvin[m]> Im not bothering you. Stop following me, I would appreciate it.
17:08:45 <jwinterm[m]> Actually you are showing up in places I'm already in
17:08:53 <setvin[m]> I dont know what kind of favors you think you are doing for yourself.
17:09:26 <setvin[m]> your projects have no place being advertised in our community centers. Please justify this action.
17:10:25 <setvin[m]> I understand it upsets you someone like me is willing and able to confront you, just let it go. I've moved on. I suggest you do as well.
17:10:33 <setvin[m]> You should probably make some new plans though
17:10:36 <jwinterm[m]> I'm not advertising anything in this place, but you and ruck constantly shilling bch
17:10:51 <setvin[m]> Its all I talk about
17:11:00 <jwinterm[m]> I don't give a shit what happens with wownero
17:11:35 <setvin[m]> So why is it such a problem for you?
17:12:26 <setvin[m]> The more you press against me the more attention you bring to yourself and my platform. Just a bit of free advice from me to you.
17:13:09 <setvin[m]> I've created a solution and moved past it. Since you dont care what happens to wownero I dont understand the motives behind commentating. You should be in agreement with me then? No shilling shitcoins?
18:13:41 <bridgerton[m]> <ian.niculescu> wownero is not a shitcoin
18:14:52 <shillo> btc > wownero > eth > xmr > bitconnect > lolbtrash. In that order
18:54:03 <crypto_grampy[m]> Bitconneeeect is going to infinity
18:54:10 <crypto_grampy[m]> Still hodling(tm)
19:02:29 <setvin[m]> that guy makes youtube videos now
19:02:33 <setvin[m]> apparently his wife divorced him
20:01:22 <ajs_[m]> WHO just named new COVID variant "Omicron"
20:15:55 <entry1[m]> Luckily we have effective vaccines protect against the variants and decrease the spread of COVID /s
20:16:14 <entry1[m]> * effective vaccines that protect against
20:17:55 <ajs_[m]> omicron sounds like a marvel villain
20:19:12 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> stay inside and keep using your iPhones, Netflix acconts, Social media ad delivery devices, etc.! DON'T GO OUTSIDE! DO NOT DO THINGS WE CANNOT MONETIZE!
20:34:23 <entry1[m]> Please keep getting Prime deliveries in your home to be "safe" and wait for the next mainstream news government announcement, heavily pressured by the World Health Organization/NIH/CDC that receives copious funding from questionable individuals and large corporations. We need the government to step up and print more money and lower interest rates into the negatives so there won't ever be a retirement age for the lower and middle class
20:34:23 <entry1[m]> from everyone's soaring debt and hyperinflation. We need to eliminate small businesses and rely on the government to regulate everything because they are so efficient and have the people's interest in mind. In order to be even more efficient, we should combine the governments into one world government!! That will solve everything
20:40:30 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> Good thinking entry1. This is why one should not use monero (the currency of criminals and renegades) and use "fiat" USD. This way, the United States can continue to import trillions of dollars of goods from the rest of the world in exchange for the service of a world currency.
20:42:15 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> With Monero, there would be no 2.7%+ yearly inflation rate, so workers would have no incentive to continue "growing the economy" in order to accrue a meager savings.
20:49:12 <entry1[m]> Preach!
21:28:31 <chaser[m]> where is the most comprehensive list of monero-accepting vensors/service?
21:29:24 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> https://basedmachines.com (not yet)
22:56:51 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> All these payment processors are bl0at
22:56:57 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> Need a more based minimalist method
23:05:01 <crypto_grampy[m]> XmrSale CCS is in development
23:05:18 <crypto_grampy[m]> You're also welcome to make something 😀
23:15:12 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> https://xmrsale.org/
23:15:12 <bridgerton[m]> ❤️ 
23:15:12 <bridgerton[m]> 😍
23:15:43 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> Approved!!!!!!!!!
23:16:40 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> New contributor incoming
23:17:17 <bridgerton[m]> <O Pão> https://tenor.com/view/derail-valley-thomas-gordon-gif-14615083
23:25:27 <setvin[m]> https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/26/celsius-cfo-arrested-on-charges-tied-to-former-job-at-moshe-hogegs-firm/