00:27:08 Hi 00:27:21 I'm new here 00:27:44 I was wondering how folks buy monero anonymously 00:28:02 Before you get angry at me and say read the docs 00:28:26 I'm asking how I can even hide the fact that I own/use monero in the first place 00:28:43 ms866[m]: have a look at localmonero.co 00:29:11 I saw localmonero and it seems like people ask for other crypto 00:29:50 Is it not somewhat risky to do so if these folks might be known localmonero users and any other crypto I send them will be visible/traceable 00:30:13 some also accept cash you can choose you payment method 00:30:13 Folks = wallet addresses 00:30:41 But that puts both of us somewhat at risk if we meet physically or send via mail 00:30:52 Risk = exposing who you might be 00:31:25 Buy KYC-free Monero (with cash or gift cards, no ID or bank account required) e.g. LocalMonero.co, HodlHodl.com, Bisq.network, CoinATMRadar.com, Azte.co. You may need to buy Bitcoin with cash first then exchange to Monero, e.g. via FixedFloat.com. 00:31:25 You can run Feather Wallet via Tor if you don't want your ISP to know you use Monero. 00:31:25 You can also shop online with Monero via proxy merchants (they pay the fiat invoice for you and reship the product to you): https://proxysto.re (EU based) and https://sovereignstack.tools/rerouter/ (US based) 00:32:26 I currently have monero gui on a tails USB and monerujo on a (still googled) android phone 00:32:37 Different wallets 00:33:06 anarkiocrypto: thanks I only knew of localmonero 00:33:34 What are your thoughts on crypto atms? 00:34:47 That take cash 00:35:37 @ms866 you gunna learn today. @anarkiocrypto is one of the most knowledgeable people on this subject. 00:35:40 I assume that's what was meant by "buy bitcoin with cash" 00:36:00 Cash in person is private (no ID needed, no cameras). You can find a trader in the nearest city if you don't want any gossip. Cash by mail is private if you use a fake return address (but your city is still on the postmark). 00:36:00 KYC-free Bitcoin ATMs are private. They have cameras but don't require ID and the camera footage is generally deleted after x days. Then exchange Bitcoin to Monero, e.g. with FixedFloat. I heard CoinFlip and Bitcoin Maine ATMs are good in the US. You can use a burner phone or SMS verification website, if they require a phone number: https://archive.org/details/how-to-use-text-verified-to-buy-non-kyc-bitcoin-at-a-bitcoin-atm 00:36:00 There may be Azte.co Bitcoin voucher vendors in your area. You can buy these Bitcoin vouchers with cash and without ID, just like phone refills or gift cards. 00:36:06 Loving this 00:36:36 More info:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/af036ced79bfdc45f7dfc93a1270b062eedf89b2) 00:37:02 Many KYC-free exchanges focus on Bitcoin, but it's very easy to exchange Bitcoin for Monero. 00:37:45 What if I have a crypto atm that has monero nearby 00:37:59 If the ATM is KYC-free, that's even better. Just buy Monero directly. 00:38:04 That doesn't compromise my anonymity? 00:38:12 Yes it is I think 00:38:17 No, as long as it doesn't require ID, it's fine. 00:38:42 So if I walk there with my android phone and use my monerujo to receive do you think that's anonymous enough? 00:38:50 There are only Bitcoin (and sometimes Litecoin) ATMs where I live, so I need to exchange BTC <-> XMR, but if you can buy Monero directly, that's great. 00:39:26 I was going a bit crazy and printed a receive address from my tails wallet (offline printing) to walk there without a phone and only have cash and that printed QR code! 00:39:29 That's fine. Monerujo is a popular and trusted wallet and it's more convenient to use a mobile wallet for crypto ATMs than a desktop wallet. 00:41:14 I was thinking my phone tracking my location plus the cameras plus if there's any software in the atm that tracks receive addresses might give my identity away 00:41:43 Am I being paranoid? I usually like to go overboard than miss something 00:42:27 You can use airplane mode if you want, but as long as the ATM doesn't require government ID, it's fine. If you are worried, you can send your Monero to a fresh wallet later. 00:43:12 But I would've given away the fact that I use/own monero though 00:43:13 Right? 00:43:31 You can check how long the ATM stores footage, but it should be deleted within some days. Otherwise you can wear a face mask (corona statism is bad, but at least masks can help with anonymity) and a hat. 00:43:52 Believe me I'm loving the mask thing 00:44:21 I'm just thinking cameras everywhere tracking me from when I leave "home" to the atm and back 00:44:28 The ATM operator doesn't have your name, home address or any state-assigned identity. The operator only sees that someone (no name) went to the ATM and bought x XMR and sent it to x address. 00:44:48 But the gov has access to all cams right 00:46:17 I earn Bitcoin/Monero via remote web dev work and withdraw cash at Bitcoin ATMs to pay for food and rent. (I can't get a "regular job" or bank account due to no ID.) The ATM has cameras but nothing bad has happened. Grocery stores, trains, etc. also sadly have cameras, but this footage isn't published anywhere and is deleted after x days. 00:46:38 Honestly I doubt anyone even looks at the ATM's cameras. Maybe only if someone tried to steal the cash from the ATM. 00:46:54 I'm not "extra" paranoid in thinking that am I? 00:47:16 I feel like I wake up everyday and say hi to my dedicated fbi agent 00:47:36 The state and cops can ask any business to disclose camera footage, but I doubt it will ask for the crypto ATM's footage. 00:47:49 Generally this only happens if there is theft. 00:48:02 Ok... 00:49:18 So I guess you don't even see a reason to have one wallet that's on my phone (that I feel like is somehow tied to me) and another that's on TAILS that's completely anonymous? 00:49:56 Especially if you wear average clothes, a hat and a face mask, the operator will just see a regular guy buying Monero (if the operator looks at the camera at all). The crypto ATM transaction takes 5 minutes max. (Sadly for me, I needed to wait in front of the ATM for 30+ minutes multiple times due to slow Bitcoin blocktimes, but Monero has a 2 minute block time.) 00:50:27 Noice 00:50:27 You can use multiple wallets. Personally I use Monero GUI and sometimes Feather Wallet on Whonix Workstation, but Tails is good too. 00:50:41 Mobile wallets are just more convenient for crypto ATMs due to the QR code scanning. 00:51:00 AFAIK you can also run Monerujo via Tor. 00:51:07 I'm still new to the privacy/anonymity side too, so my setup/toolkit is still very poor 00:51:09 Maybe try Orbot's VPN feature. 00:51:24 I do 00:51:30 Monerujo through orbot 00:52:00 Here are some good privacy/anonymity Matrix rooms: https://matrix.to/#/#optout:monero.social https://matrix.to/#/#anonymity:matrix.org https://matrix.to/#/#Bitcoin:usethe.tools 00:52:09 I just don't trust that google isn't tracking my friggin taps on my screen right now 00:52:48 You can try the LineageOS custom ROM (or Calyx/Graphene if you have a Google Pixel, yes sadly it requires Google's hardware but it at least removes Google's software). 00:53:35 If you had the choice of 00:53:35 1. Buying prepaid cards using cash then use localmonero through TOR 00:53:35 2. Buying Monero directly from an ATM 00:53:35 which one would you go with 00:54:06 Looking into getting a pixel and calyx with microG soon 00:54:21 Then maybe later try no microG or graphene 00:55:03 you can directly us graphene they have sandboxed google services which works like a charm and is better than microG 00:55:16 anarkiocrypto[m]: Is the optout one related to sethforprivacy by any chance? 00:56:02 atomfried[m]: Really?! I heard horrible stuff about graphene and its compatibility 00:56:24 ms866[m]: yes works like charm for me 00:56:38 Buying Monero from a crypto ATM would be easier. 00:56:38 BTW if you mean prepaid debit cards (sadly it's impossible to buy them in the EU anymore), if they work for free trials/online purchases and don't require ID to activate, I would buy one from you. 00:57:29 Yes, Opt Out is Seth's server. 00:57:31 I think last time I checked they still sell them here in the US 00:57:52 Let me check if they have any kyc required to activate 00:58:09 If they don't I'll ping you and see if you want any 00:59:32 This was delightful 00:59:32 I'm new to everything, even element and matrix and I'm so glad I can find people that share my interests, who I can learn from 00:59:57 Looking forward to becoming a more active member of the privacy/security/anonymity communities 01:00:12 anarkiocrypto: thank you for answering all my questions 01:00:45 BTW if the prepaid debit cards work without KYC, I could only buy around $20-$50 for now, so you would probably still need to visit the crypto ATM. But crypto ATMs work well, so there shouldn't be any problems. 01:01:14 If I had more questions about the same topic can I DM you or do you prefer I just message here then you can answer if you're available (or tag you here maybe)? 01:01:39 Oh... I was just gonna get you the card(s) coz I thought you needed some 01:01:51 I'm just gonna use the atms from now on 01:02:24 If you're doing the cards thing for my sake only, I thank you, but you don't have to 01:03:59 I don't buy online often and use cash in local stores, but it would be nice to have access to a debit card in case I needed it. If it's KYC-free and works for most online stores, I would definitely buy a $20 or $50 card. 01:04:23 You can send a PM. I can also invite you to a Crypto Agorism server. 01:05:03 Ok I'll keep you posted about the card when I get a chance 01:05:16 Can I ask a off topic question 01:05:52 What do you (everyone here) think about using tor over protonVPN 01:06:07 I always got the sense that it's a no no 01:06:29 But then I was told to treat proton VPN as a ISP replacement and then TOR normally 01:06:45 Which is somewhat better coz my isp wouldn't even know I use tor 01:06:53 Thoughts? 01:07:45 s/a/an/ 01:08:58 I just use Tor by itself, since my ISP doesn't censor or limit Tor. Sometimes I use Whonix Workstation for Tor -> VPN for websites that block Tor exit nodes (I don't trust VPNs alone since they know both your home IP and what you are accessing). 01:08:59 ProtonVPN is fine if you are connecting to Tor (which means ProtonVPN won't see what websites you access anyway). 01:09:38 So you're pro TorOverVpn and VpnOverTor 01:09:58 For different usecases 01:10:27 Both are fine for different use cases. VPN -> Tor if your ISP blocks Tor. Tor -> VPN if the website blocks Tor exit nodes. 01:11:12 Do you know of good VPNs that use private payment methods? 01:11:21 Monero for example 01:11:34 To use in the second usecase 01:11:44 If both your ISP and the website block Tor, you can only safely do VPN -> Tor -> VPN if they are 2 separate VPN companies and paid anonymously (e.g. with Monero). 01:12:17 I heard Mullvad and Ivpn are trusted and accept Monero (either directly or via https://digitalgoods.proxysto.re/). 01:12:33 I think Seth has reviewed these VPNs, maybe ask in the Opt Out room. 01:12:50 I'm getting treasure drops rn 01:13:34 Maybe you would be interested in this collection of links/resources: https://haste.tchncs.de/raw/sibikozafe 01:14:18 anarkiocrypto[m]: I understand the 2 different companies aspect 01:14:18 But hypothetically, if I use my paid protonVPN, then TOR, then some random alias email to free protonVPN (same company)... What's the harm there? 01:15:52 ProtonVPN still owns the data centers, sees the current connections and can do timing analysis. 01:16:07 anarkiocrypto[m]: I'm crying right now 😁🙏 01:18:36 Last question... Just coz I kept opening the links I'm being sent and remembered I wanted to research this... 01:18:36 Which android and desktop browser do you recommend? I don't need anything fancy but want a good, privacy respecting one 01:18:36 I'm currently using brave for desktop and DDG browser on android (checking out bromite but not sure how it's "better") 01:19:43 I only use Tor Browser. It works perfectly for me. 01:22:06 On desktop and android? 01:22:57 I feel like that's a bit overkill for day to day stuff... Or maybe even defeats the purpose if I use certain things... Like logging in somewhere, buying regular stuff or even worse shipping something 01:26:19 I use Tor Browser on desktop for everything (I only use my laptop for pseudonymous activities, even my remote web dev work is pseudonymous). 01:26:19 I use my phone for real life activities (e.g. talking with real life friends, news, weather, maps, taxi apps). I guess the Firefox app with a VPN would be OK for this, but I just don't like to use smartphones (too many sensors, small screen, difficult to use the touch keyboard). 01:27:03 Tor Browser is based on Firefox, so I guess stock Firefox + hardened security settings + VPN could be useful if you don't want to connect to Tor. 01:31:30 Hmmm 01:31:42 I guess I'm more of a phone guy outside of work 01:32:23 I'm curious how do you get around revealing your physical address when buying goods online? 01:33:35 I was looking into buying a trezor or ledger and was surprised ledger doesn't even accept crypto 01:33:35 And trezor only accepts bitcoin 01:33:35 But then I was like... How do I ship this to me (I have to buy them from the manufacturer) without revealing my address 01:33:52 I can't receive any mail to my home address anyway, so I use package pickup stores/lockers, which only require a SMS code (no ID). Not sure if these exist in the US. 01:33:53 You could try these reshippers (they pay the fiat invoice and reship to you, and you pay in Monero): 01:33:53 https://sovereignstack.tools/rerouter/ 01:33:53 https://proxysto.re/ 01:34:09 I think Bitcoin Maine sells hardware wallets in their physical store, but IDK if you are near Maine. 01:34:47 But then I reveal my address to the reshipper? 01:35:29 I'm looking for a service that offers lockers of some sorts and doesn't need ID if anyone knows how to do so in the US 01:37:41 If there are any Bitcoin/tech/libertarian meetups or hackerspaces near you, you could ask if you could ship it to them. 01:37:41 Or some people send it to their work address, which is at least more private than their home address, and you could maybe send it to a "department" or the business itself, instead of your full name. 01:37:41 Otherwise SeedSigner is a DIY hardware wallet, but IDK if it supports Monero. 01:37:41 Generally Monero GUI, Feather Wallet or Monerujo are safe and trusted wallets, so a hardware wallet isn't 100% necessary. 01:38:42 IDK any specific shipping solutions in the US sadly. The package pickup stores are specifc to the country where I live. :( But maybe you can ask in Crypto Agorism (where I invited you)? 01:38:53 Well I can use a PO box but that is directly links to me and costs quite a bit 01:39:47 General Delivery at a post office may work if you use a pseudonym and say that you lost your ID. (Or maybe they will refuse to give it to you...) 01:40:10 If you are a regular at any local businesses or meetups, you can ask if you can send it there. 01:40:24 I also have friends but I don't wanna freak them out "hey can I ship stuff to you and you don't check what they are?" lol 01:40:49 anarkiocrypto[m]: That I thought of 01:40:49 If there are any motels that don't ask for ID, you can maybe ask if you can send the package there (you don't need to stay at the motel). 01:40:50 But I move a lot so... 01:41:15 If it's just a hardware wallet, you can probably be open about it to trusted friends. Just say that you are trying out Bitcoin (but you don't have any yet). 01:41:46 Yeah... I'm trying to have a permanent solution though 01:41:49 Then if they ask you about it later, just say that you lost interest and sold the Bitcoin. 01:42:14 Like have a way to ship anything to a place where I can pick them up later 01:42:27 I can see a bunch of private ways but no anon way 01:43:30 This is how the package pickup stores work here, you can write any name and a KYC-free phone number, receive a SMS when it arrives, and pick it up with only the SMS code. If you have e.g. UPS, DHL or DPD stores where you live, you can check if they work with only SMS codes and no ID. 01:44:13 BTW there are some Pixels for sale for Monero here if you are interested (and find a maildrop): https://matrix.to/#/#cryptomarketplace:matrix.org 01:44:40 I'll check... But I also don't know of a way to get a no ID sim in the US if not VOIP 01:45:37 I heard you can buy Mint Mobile with cash, no ID. 01:45:57 Yeah but you need to activate it 01:46:20 I haven't tried but I assume they'll ask ID stuff to activate it 01:46:43 Also wrote about a concept for a KYC-free crypto-friendly PO box network:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/a7edb45ebda087a060bcb05172e7db7e990ff7dc) 01:46:47 If someone can confirm they don't, that'll be amazing 01:47:13 From what I have heard, Mint Mobile is 100% KYC-free, but maybe ask in Crypto Agorism (some people have experience with Mint Mobile there). 01:48:28 you can buy mint mobile with cash but when registering on their site you give them your info 01:48:49 and your phone's info 01:48:55 Do they require ID? If not you can write a realistic pseudonym and fake address. 01:49:20 don't remember :) 01:49:38 > <@anarkiocrypto:halogen.city> Also wrote about a concept for a KYC-free crypto-friendly PO box network:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/5554dfebc4084e8bf05ee3cdaf14d1cbeeb1a95a) 01:51:04 Email would be better and easier. I just used SMS because the package pickup stores here use SMS, and many couriers offer a box for phone number but only a few offer a box for email (but you could write it on the second address line, I guess). 01:51:41 It's easier to get an email anonymously and you can get some kind of code to pick the pkg up 01:52:40 Yes, email would be better in practice. It's easy to buy KYC-free sim cards here, but I know it's difficult to find KYC-free sim cards in many countries. 01:53:44 Again, I can't thank you enough for all the info you provided today 01:54:04 As promised I'll get back to you on that prepaid card thing 01:54:16 But it'll be a few days before I do 01:54:28 No problem. :) 08:56:35 Has anyone tried mysudo.com? 09:18:48 Yeah, it is good if you need a second number 09:19:22 For email aliases, I like simplelogin better 12:51:57 https://nypost.com/2018/03/21/blockchain-for-bitcoin-is-infected-with-child-porn/ 12:51:59 xD 20:43:19 Hello, I would like to contribute to the community. I'm an undergrad math student and I want to learn code and practice contributing to the development. I am new at this 😅 20:44:03 juanhb[m]: Message 21:35:50 juanhb: Hi! Please come to #monero-recruitment:monero.social and tell about your skillset there. We have a need of mathematicians. 21:36:22 Here are some research question we need to work on: 21:36:23 https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/94 21:39:36 didnt know about that list 22:01:34 zkao: It's new. Feel free to suggest additions or edits. 22:39:37 Happy to see "Advisability of churning and churning best practices" :) 23:35:56 Any person to help with a number for texting!!!! All this voip texting app are not working 23:40:43 If you need a SMS verification try SMSPVA.com or TextVerified.com. If you need to send a SMS, try Jmp.chat or Silent.link. All are KYC-free and you can pay with Bitcoin (or Monero via FixedFloat.com).