01:00:30 <nikg83[m]> Change randomx to require high ram (32gb) ? Kill botnets and make mining profitable again for real miners ? 
01:00:30 <nikg83[m]> Nobody is going to invest in mining rigs/farms, just to protect the network when they know botnets will leech of it forever 😅 
01:00:30 <nikg83[m]> Or switch to sha3 ASICS ? Get intel/amd onboard 
01:19:01 <crypto_grampy[m]> Mining farms are bad, botnets and ransomware are good and create a more secure internet (antifragility) and anyone with high powered hardware should probably be using it for commerce/research first and mining monero on downtime as a way to recoup investment cost.  Old hardware can be slapped in a building near renewable/cheap energy and used as a monero farm.  
01:19:51 <crypto_grampy[m]> My 2cents before I croak
04:01:39 <bridgerton[m]> <BigSlim> remote nodes list for monero
04:01:49 <bridgerton[m]> <BigSlim> I see no lists anywhere really that are up to date?
04:03:04 <crypto_grampy[m]> Monero.fail
04:06:00 <bridgerton[m]> <BigSlim> supportxmr still running remote nodes?
04:06:07 <bridgerton[m]> <BigSlim> honestly should check cakewallet
04:07:01 <bridgerton[m]> <BigSlim> all the nodes there are red (offline)
04:09:29 <selsta> BigSlim: node.supportxmr.com:18081 is online
04:09:35 <bridgerton[m]> <BigSlim> props to cakewallet for speeding up their app though. man it used to take like 5 hours to sync 30k blocks
04:10:00 <selsta> node.melo.tools:18081 too
04:15:23 <bridgerton[m]> <BigSlim> cant wait to upgrade this dinosaur intel mac to the new m1 or m2. Using the mac mini m1 is a world of difference
06:08:35 <monero2k2[m]> Dumped my last shitcoins and went all XMR! Feels good man.
06:09:13 <monero2k2[m]> Now if I want to swing and daytrade my xmr can I do that via cakewallet?
06:22:08 <oceanus[m]1> #monero-markets:monero.social
06:27:17 <cmdrbergger[m]> <monero2k2[m]> "Dumped my last shitcoins and..." <- Debating doing this myself. Still holding on to some ltc because of their upcoming privacy update
06:42:01 <monero2k2[m]> <cmdrbergger[m]> "Debating doing this myself..." <- When is that happening? If we’re in a bear market, be prepared for severe downward movement in all crypto. So if you go all in be careful. If you don’t need the funds right now and your longterm like 4-5 yrs you should be good just monitor news about crypto and privacy coins. 
09:20:23 <nikg83[m]> <crypto_grampy[m]> "Mining farms are bad, botnets..." <- Atleast should increase ram requirements, that will remove botnets off network 
10:20:22 <carrington[m]> ❤️ botnets. If we could lower the RAM requirements we'd have every shady insecure IoT device mining XMR. Very environmentally friendly
10:41:59 <ZombieMaster[m]1> <nikg83[m]> "Atleast should increase ram..." <- yeah why remove botnets? they are *really* decentralized and highly unlikely to be shutdown unlike some "legitimate mining rigs"
11:34:11 <nikg83[m]> <ZombieMaster[m]1> "yeah why remove botnets? they..." <- Few actors control botnets, how Is that decentralised?
11:58:33 <ZombieMaster[m]1> <nikg83[m]> "Few actors control botnets..." <- What size are you referring to approximately when you say "few"? And even if there are few actors they still are in possession of potentially 10-100m devices with a wide range of hardware specs and capabilities and in their totality fully topologically decentralized. When some are shutdown others will quickly take over and as long as a specific coin is their preference of mining
11:58:34 <ZombieMaster[m]1> then as an entity it is truly decentralized and uncensorable. If you can think of anything more censorship resistant that all the botnets of the world combined, let me know :)
12:00:01 <ZombieMaster[m]1> s/that/than/
12:13:11 <sech1> "Few actors control botnets" a few hundred actors. At least.
12:15:19 <monerobull[m]1> Its also a fact that most insecure devices are already mining monero and its likely their numbers will go down rather than up
12:16:16 <monerobull[m]1> There won't suddenly be a huge botnet with a large chunk of hashrate
12:17:30 <monerobull[m]1> Only through some kind of fucked windows update making millions of devices insecure and that would have such a big impact, Microsoft could probably roll it back remotely.
12:42:50 <nikg83[m]> <sech1> ""Few actors control botnets" a..." <- Few hundred, still not 1cpu 1vote 
12:43:25 <monerobull[m]1> Well yes
12:43:43 <monerobull[m]1> White paper doesn't say you can't have more than 1 CPU, no?
12:44:21 <nikg83[m]> Don’t see why high ram requirement should not be pursued? It’s not like ram is scarce or centralised like asic
12:44:26 <monerobull[m]1> It's still 1 cpu 1 vote, even if someone accumulated 25k CPUs via malware they wrote
12:45:06 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: At almost zero cost to mine xmr 
12:45:29 <nikg83[m]> You are not valuing xmr if someone is free to be allowed to run botnets
12:45:59 <monerobull[m]1> I see this as free security
12:46:56 <ZombieMaster[m]1> nikg83: requiring high end spec for miners isn't really going to help people with older hardware no?
12:46:56 <ZombieMaster[m]1> I still got 16 gb of ram on my workstation
12:48:17 <sech1> Half of botnet hashrate comes from hacked servers, increasing RAM requirement won't stop them
12:48:25 <sech1> servers have a lot of RAM
12:48:38 <monerobull[m]1> Botnets take paychecks of people outside of our ecosystem and turns them into hashrate an attacker needs to overcome. The more power costs, the less people from inside the ecosystem mine, but not botnets
12:49:19 <monerobull[m]1> Also immune to regulations against PoW
12:49:27 <localmonero05> Botnet lives matter.
12:49:41 <sech1> you can't ban miners when miners are already illegal
12:49:48 <localmonero05> ^ 
12:49:58 <ZombieMaster[m]1> ^
12:50:34 <nikg83[m]> > <@zombie_master:halogen.city> nikg83: requiring high end spec for miners isn't really going to help people with older hardware no?
12:50:34 <nikg83[m]> > I still got 16 gb of ram on my workstation
12:50:34 <nikg83[m]> Adding another 16gb doesn’t work ? Even 16gb limitation should be good, but will need to be tweaked again down the line 
12:50:57 <sech1> also, an egalitarian (accessible to everyone) PoW is the best PoW. Allowing everyone to mine ensures the best decentralization. Everyone includes botnets too.
12:51:21 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Highly doubt it, it’s mostly carded servers you are talking about 
12:51:46 <sech1> log4j
12:52:08 <sech1> hacked servers added 500 MH/s since December
12:52:19 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Monero mining should be accessible for everyone with a CPU, also with low spec and older hardware. Most people still have 4 GB or 8 GB RAM and can't afford to upgrade to 32 GB (which may require an upgrade of their other hardware too).
12:53:21 <nikg83[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: 16gb ram is cheap and compatible to older hardware 
12:53:23 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Requiring expensive high end hardware would also centralize mining, like how expensive ASICs centralize Bitcoin mining.
12:53:32 <monerobull[m]1> sech1: Heh, nice
12:54:00 <anarkiocrypto[m]> My laptop can support 8 GB max. And AFAIK 16 GB RAM costs around $80, not cheap.
12:54:01 <ZombieMaster[m]1> also ASICs are impossible with randomx
12:54:27 <monerobull[m]1> Dude more ram limitation doesn't do anything if a compromised server has 2000 GB of ram
12:55:17 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: More old pcs than servers that are vulnerable to be used as botnets
12:55:28 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Why do you even want to limit who can mine Monero?
12:55:43 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Nothing wrong with old PCs.
12:55:46 <sech1> 1 hacked server can make up for 50 old PCs in terms of hashrate
12:55:53 <ZombieMaster[m]1> <nikg83[m]> "You are not valuing xmr if..." <- you are not valuing xmr if you are valuing centralized control and exclusionary policies
12:56:08 <nikg83[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: Can you mine iot devices mine right now ?
12:56:15 <monerobull[m]1> ZombieMaster[m]1: Fitiing name lmao
12:56:23 <monerobull[m]1> nikg83[m]: No
12:56:33 <sech1> iot devices probably no, but Raspberry Pi 3 - absolutely
12:56:34 <ZombieMaster[m]1> monerobull: :)
12:56:43 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: Because it’s limited by ram, let’s lower it down too
12:56:49 <anarkiocrypto[m]> I don't own any IoT devices and these are generally expensive new hardware. I am talking about older laptops and desktops.
12:57:15 <monerobull[m]1> nikg83[m]: Pretty sure 2gb is just randomxs minimum specs
12:57:16 <sech1> modern phones (less than 5 years old and with 4 GB of RAM) can mine RandomX efficiently too
12:57:27 <anarkiocrypto[m]> You should be able to mine Monero on anything that has a CPU. It may be slow or unprofitable, but this is the user's decision, not a centralized dev decision.
12:57:56 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Efficiency against botnets ? Really 
12:57:58 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Many people are even mining at a loss with old computers, but this is their decision and they should be able to make it.
12:58:01 <monerobull[m]1> Google  tv Chromecast should technically be able to do it :P
12:58:36 <nikg83[m]> Even highend cpus are not that profitable after power cost
12:58:39 <nikg83[m]> Due to botnets
12:58:45 <monerobull[m]1> No
12:58:47 <sech1> botnets are not going anywhere even if they can't mine RandomX. They'll be doing their malicious botnet things anyway
12:58:53 <monerobull[m]1> Due to monero being undervalued
12:58:59 <sech1> why exclude them? It will only hurt Monero decentralization
12:59:23 <nikg83[m]> anarkiocrypto[m]: And tons of them don’t mine it with their cpu because it’s not worth and botnets can keep securing the network 
12:59:46 <monerobull[m]1> Botnets mining monero also makes monero botnet resistant. You won't ddos your free moneyprinter
13:00:36 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: Undevalued because big miners (asic) left and they don’t keep price in check to keep it profitable 
13:00:36 <nikg83[m]> See xmrbtc after first anti-asic fork 
13:00:43 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Also don't exclude regular people who want to voluntarily mine Monero with older hardware (and can't afford to upgrade). If you don't like botnets, educate people about anti-virus.
13:01:06 <monerobull[m]1> > <@nikg83:matrix.org> Undevalued because big miners (asic) left and they don’t keep price in check to keep it profitable 
13:01:06 <monerobull[m]1> > See xmrbtc after first anti-asic fork 
13:01:06 <monerobull[m]1> Moonbois get out
13:01:20 <ZombieMaster[m]1> > <@nikg83:matrix.org> Undevalued because big miners (asic) left and they don’t keep price in check to keep it profitable 
13:01:20 <ZombieMaster[m]1> > 
13:01:20 <ZombieMaster[m]1> > See xmrbtc after first anti-asic fork
13:01:20 <ZombieMaster[m]1> and why do you believe the hard fork happened in the first place?
13:01:38 <localmonero05> Definitely not because of ASICs. That'd be hearsay.
13:02:01 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: Was replying to your question of being undervalued, keep running your botnets I don’t care
13:02:01 <nikg83[m]> I am looking forward to 0.0009
13:02:34 <localmonero05> There's #monero-markets for price action discussions. ;-)
13:02:51 <monerobull[m]1> "Monero is performing badly because botnets mine with free power, stop them!" Is what you are saying
13:03:23 <sech1> "big miners (asic) left and they don’t keep price in check to keep it profitable" you have problems with logic
13:03:26 <localmonero05> Don't use quotes if you are not actually quoting something. Reads as if you are putting your own interpretations, within quotes.
13:03:31 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: No, I am saying get real miners ; they contribute more that botnets 
13:03:37 <sech1> miners sell coins they mine, they don't keep the price
13:03:46 <localmonero05> ^
13:03:51 <nikg83[m]> Real holders work for it , botnets mine at no cost
13:03:52 <sech1> to keep the price, they'd have to buy more coins than they sell
13:03:55 <sech1> what's the point?
13:04:12 <monerobull[m]1> No real holders have upkeep
13:04:13 <sech1> see Zcash price action to see where it's going together with big ASIC miners
13:04:27 <monerobull[m]1> Botnets can horde coins till a greener day
13:04:45 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Sure keep buying 200xmr/day forever
13:04:57 <localmonero05> nikg83[m]: Bruh.
13:05:02 <sech1> I'd be happy to if I had enough $$$ to do this
13:05:17 <monerobull[m]1> There are literally 50 million dollars of btc block reward each day
13:05:22 <monerobull[m]1> Monero is 100k
13:05:33 <sech1> more like $75k at current prices
13:06:00 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: And nobody wants to buy or can buy 😅 once cex go , no volume either 
13:06:29 <monerobull[m]1> nikg83[m]: OK rattie you may get back to r/xmrtrader
13:06:55 <nikg83[m]> monerobull[m]1: Ok 👌 
13:25:16 <carrington[m]> Finding ways to pump the price will do much more for dedicated home miners and decentralized than any tweaking of RAM requirements
13:40:45 <localmonero05> Ah... Number go Up technology...
13:41:23 <sech1> Elon tweet rocket price propulsion
13:41:33 <localmonero05> lol.
13:43:07 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Circular economies and merchant acceptance > price alone
13:53:51 <anarkiocrypto[m]> Circular economies also increase the amount of transactions, therefore more profits for miners.
16:59:54 <localmonero05> https://i.imgur.com/GkLXe7h.png
16:59:54 <localmonero05> Illegal on Matrix, again.