01:55:40 <bridgerton[m]> <ian.niculescu> Is that real ?
06:45:18 -xmr-pr- [css-proposals] j-berman opened pull request #288: Master
06:45:18 -xmr-pr- > https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/288
07:00:18 -xmr-pr- [css-proposals] j-berman opened pull request #289: j-berman edit: added link to ring size PR + removed 'when' on determin...
07:00:18 -xmr-pr- > https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/289
07:06:53 <bridgerton[m]> <𝙲𝙴𝚁𝚄𝙻𝙴𝙾𝚄𝚂> how many hardforks is Mastering Monero behind in information?
08:06:53 <slave_blocker2> I am currently still translating zero to monero to portuguese. It is not only translating but also exposing the protocol the best i can in verbatim terms.
08:06:56 <slave_blocker2> One of the things i want to explain is gamma...
08:06:58 <slave_blocker2> In the pedersen commitments it is said :
08:07:00 <slave_blocker2> H = 8 ∗ to point(H_n (G))
08:07:02 <slave_blocker2> This implies that there is a γ such that :
08:07:04 <slave_blocker2> H = γG .
08:07:08 <slave_blocker2> And there is no monerian that knows γ .
08:07:10 <slave_blocker2> Because it is calculated through a hash function...
08:07:12 <slave_blocker2> I would like to expose the implications of knowing γ .
08:07:14 <slave_blocker2> I was told that knowing γ lets you forge xmr. This is, 
08:07:16 <slave_blocker2> print xmr out of thin air.
08:07:18 <slave_blocker2> Can someone help me please ?
08:07:20 <slave_blocker2> I am very persistent and i am already finished with the translation, except 
08:07:22 <slave_blocker2> footnotes and lifting semantic errors here and there. 
08:43:30 <RingCT> slave_blocker2: Maybe you should try asking that question in #monero-research-lounge. Ping UkoeHB. He was one of the authors of the second edition.
08:43:36 <RingCT> Thanks for working on the translation. :)
08:43:59 <RingCT> Ah, I see you posted in MRL as well...
08:44:21 <RingCT> Ping Ukoe. He could likely offer some pointers for you.
08:44:32 <slave_blocker2> i feel it is my duty.
08:47:55 <slave_blocker2> i have done so in the past. He was very helpful then, but i had also very limited time back then. And therefore this was not resolved, i am currentlz doing this full-time. :)
15:49:00 <bridgerton[m]> <𝙲𝙴𝚁𝚄𝙻𝙴𝙾𝚄𝚂> do you think monero-chan uses a hardware wallet 🥸
15:49:00 <bridgerton[m]> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/621366094531133461/944983980397170728/1645351722430.gif
17:56:12 <ajs_[m]> MoneroKon meeting in 5 minutes
17:56:29 <ajs_[m]> in #monero-events:monero.social 
19:30:18 -xmr-pr- [meta] ajs-xmr opened issue #667: MoneroKon 2022 Planning Meeting: Sunday 27th February 2022 @ 18:00 UTC
19:30:18 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/667
19:41:31 <inlight_> whats new
20:19:57 <thetitanborn[m]> hey everyone. how does a newcomer get started?
20:20:40 <thetitanborn[m]> I come from the NFT space, got about 80k followers organically this year but I was always concerned about the provacy then I found this beauty
20:22:48 <bridgerton[m]> <Krypton> The lectures by dr. Daniel Kim are a must watch. Articmine's videos on scaling are very interesting as well.
20:22:48 <bridgerton[m]> https://youtu.be/aC9Uu5BUxII
20:23:34 <thetitanborn[m]> > <@bridgerton:matrix.org> <Krypton> The lectures by dr. Daniel Kim are a must watch. Articmine's videos on scaling are very interesting as well.
20:23:34 <thetitanborn[m]> > https://youtu.be/aC9Uu5BUxII
20:23:34 <thetitanborn[m]> cheer
20:23:35 <thetitanborn[m]> s
20:23:38 <xxfedexx[m]> Hey thetitanborn ! You can get started with Monero by buying it, or mining it.
20:23:38 <xxfedexx[m]> If you want to buy Monero with fiat, you can use LocalMonero.co; if you want to exchange other cryptocurrencies into Monero, you can use TradeOgre, KuCoin or Binance (In my opinion TradeOgre is better than Binance and KuCoin).
20:23:38 <xxfedexx[m]> Mining Monero isn't hard - Monero follows Satoshi's vision of 1CPU = 1 vote, and so it can be mined with your computer. You might get some revenue or be in loss, depending on your PC and the electricity price in your country.
20:24:50 <thetitanborn[m]> > <@xxfedexx:matrix.org> Hey thetitanborn ! You can get started with Monero by buying it, or mining it.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c207511f5d2aebecd50e8fefc830e124dab106ba)
20:26:10 <xxfedexx[m]> You can use https://minerstat.com/coin/XMR to calculate your estimated profit
20:26:38 <xxfedexx[m]> View the estimated hashrate of your PC on https://xmrig.com/benchmark
20:27:51 <thetitanborn[m]> tyvm this is super welcoming
20:28:09 <xxfedexx[m]> In fact, You are welcome 😉
20:29:09 <xxfedexx[m]> thetitanborn do you already have a Monero wallet?
20:29:28 <thetitanborn[m]> yeah the blue one, forgot how its called
20:30:01 <thetitanborn[m]> cake
20:30:05 <xxfedexx[m]> Ok, can you give me your Monero address?
20:30:13 <thetitanborn[m]> one sec
20:30:27 <thetitanborn[m]> let me change it cuz I did not get my seed, I was just testing it out
20:36:31 <thetitanborn[m]> 83FXmc6ZfnkEsLLY8QosKjjBLLm9M3P58917o6YoAXpdCSCrhPfQZGoG9iSZKunKEgM31oRY8SYzvCkSAzzYh2DzHU5zrfZ
20:40:21 <xxfedexx[m]> thetitanborn[m]: Sent you an undisclosed amount of xɱr
20:41:00 <Torr> 79e99999 Monero
20:41:20 <xxfedexx[m]> No
20:41:26 <xxfedexx[m]> I sent moar
20:41:47 <thetitanborn[m]> cheers!
20:42:06 <xxfedexx[m]> https://exploremonero.com/transaction/b0874e83c5369314abadcac9dfd522cd750c48ddf7e5a380c567c5ee32d67a57
20:43:57 <thetitanborn[m]> I read mastering monero today, I always have to use subaddresses or is it 100% private even if I use primary?
20:44:39 <slave_blocker2> only nothing is 100%.
20:44:56 <Torr> thetitanborn[m]: Never count on 100% privacy.
20:45:05 <slave_blocker2> And it is and is not.
20:45:25 <Torr> Not even when you are there.
20:45:47 <slave_blocker2> only nothing is 100%. And it is and is not.
20:46:04 <slave_blocker2> ommm
20:47:45 <xxfedexx[m]> thetitanborn[m]: It is private because with Monero you have something called "Stealth Addresses" that get generated automatically every time somebody transacts with you. But the problem is simple: Let's imagine A is a KYC exchange and B is a criminal paying you using your address X.
20:47:45 <xxfedexx[m]> The criminal is in reality a police man and tells to the exchange "Hey exchange! If somebody asks you to send money to address X, then he is involved in illicit activities".
20:47:45 <xxfedexx[m]> They can easily link your identity.
20:48:45 <thetitanborn[m]> interesting
20:50:51 <thetitanborn[m]> so that's why you have to keep switching addresses?
20:51:00 <thetitanborn[m]> or always give a subaddress?
21:03:40 <xxfedexx[m]> You should prefer to use different subaddresses for each transactions
21:03:49 <thetitanborn[m]> yes
21:03:59 <thetitanborn[m]> ok, good. I got that one right at least
21:04:22 <thetitanborn[m]> your transaction seems to be validated btw, but I still got nothing. it usually takes 30 min?
21:04:28 <xxfedexx[m]> Weird
21:04:34 <xxfedexx[m]> Are you sure you got nothing?
21:04:41 <thetitanborn[m]> 100%
21:04:57 <thetitanborn[m]> I checked the numbers too to make sure I did not F up
21:04:57 <xxfedexx[m]> It should show up when it gets 1 confirmation
21:05:08 <xxfedexx[m]> And show as confirmed when it gets 10 confirmations
21:05:42 <thetitanborn[m]> yeah weird
21:06:08 <thetitanborn[m]> this is the part when I shout scam and run away right? xD
21:06:32 <xxfedexx[m]> Yes
21:06:37 <xxfedexx[m]> It's very weird
21:06:43 <thetitanborn[m]> hell of a scam cuz u tired to be nice and u lost lmao
21:06:46 <xxfedexx[m]> I used Monero for years but something like this never happened
21:07:13 <thetitanborn[m]> I am flipping through both my addresses and subaddreses. nothing
21:07:13 <xxfedexx[m]> Maybe it doesn't show because I sent too little monero?
21:07:27 <thetitanborn[m]> it's 0.00 usd tho
21:07:32 <xxfedexx[m]> No
21:07:36 <xxfedexx[m]> It should be $2
21:07:53 <xxfedexx[m]> Weird
21:08:11 <xxfedexx[m]> thetitanborn[m]: Does it also show a list of incoming transactions?
21:08:13 <xxfedexx[m]> Can you see it?
21:08:25 <thetitanborn[m]> moment
21:08:41 <thetitanborn[m]> nope
21:09:21 <thetitanborn[m]> does gas fluctuate here like it does on ETH or BTC?
21:10:34 <xxfedexx[m]> Monero's transaction fees is paid by the sender and it is usually less than $0.002
21:11:08 <thetitanborn[m]> can it be affected in any way because I am using VPN?
21:12:06 <xxfedexx[m]> No
21:12:27 <xxfedexx[m]> A lot of Monero wallets use Tor by default by the way
21:12:27 <xxfedexx[m]> Try closing and opening your wallet
21:12:34 <thetitanborn[m]> did it several times
21:12:36 <thetitanborn[m]> tried reconnecting
21:12:44 <thetitanborn[m]> moved through all wallets, subwallets
21:12:46 <thetitanborn[m]> nothing
21:12:55 <xxfedexx[m]> subwallets?
21:13:03 <thetitanborn[m]> subadresses
21:13:13 <thetitanborn[m]> noob with the terminilogy still
21:13:49 <xxfedexx[m]> I do not know
21:14:04 <thetitanborn[m]> fuck it, hey, I appreciate the warm welcome
21:14:28 <thetitanborn[m]> if we ever meet I promise I'll buy you a coffee for 5$ :P
21:14:30 <xxfedexx[m]> Look at the positive thing: i've just burned 0.01337ɱ
21:14:56 <thetitanborn[m]> is that good or bad?
21:15:02 <thetitanborn[m]> good cuz there's less? :P
21:15:18 <xxfedexx[m]> It's kind of good, if there is less Monero then the price is higher
21:15:44 <thetitanborn[m]> how is the inflation/deflation system btw?
21:15:48 <thetitanborn[m]> can they be minted endlessly?
21:16:01 <thetitanborn[m]> and gas fees burns make it deflationary?
21:16:37 <xxfedexx[m]> With Monero "gas fees" (we usually call it Transaction Fees) do not get burned, they get paid to miners so they keep the network secure
21:17:22 <xxfedexx[m]> Monero has an infinite supply, it currently has roughly an 1% yearly inflation, then it will stay around 0.8% yearly inflation
21:17:49 <xxfedexx[m]> Compare it to the United States Dollar's inflation :-)
21:18:05 <xxfedexx[m]> Here is a cool chart
21:18:06 <xxfedexx[m]> https://moneroj.net/inflation/
21:18:11 <thetitanborn[m]> solana has 8% yearly inflation lol
21:19:33 <xxfedexx[m]> Less inflation isn't always better
21:19:58 <thetitanborn[m]> interesting. I don't believe that. but tell me your POB
21:20:00 <thetitanborn[m]> POV
21:21:33 <xxfedexx[m]> Unlike Bitcoin, that has a supply cap of 11 million and whose emission will end, Monero has a tail emission: ɱonero has a minimum emission of 0.6ɱ per block (rougly 0.3ɱ per minute will be rewarded to miners) so that miners do not stop getting rewarded for their hard work. Miners, in fact, are very important to protect the blockchain from 51% attacks.
21:22:55 <xxfedexx[m]> Bitcoin's emission will end, and when it will end, only transaction fees will be rewarded to miners, and tx fees may not be enough to pay the miners for their precious work. This means that Bitcoin may be 51% attacked.
21:23:26 <thetitanborn[m]> while monero won't
21:23:28 <thetitanborn[m]> interesting
21:25:40 <nioc> people lose btc so at some point there will be none left lolol
21:26:01 <thetitanborn[m]> lmfao
21:26:23 <xxfedexx[m]> nioc: This is actually more true than it may sound
21:26:37 <xxfedexx[m]> A lot of people dies without disclosing their seed
21:26:37 <thetitanborn[m]> it is 1005
21:26:55 <xxfedexx[m]> For example if I died right now nobody could unlock my Monero funds
21:27:09 <thetitanborn[m]> been using crypto for 4 months I most forget seeds or where I put them
21:27:31 <thetitanborn[m]> quick, send your seedphrase
21:27:31 <nioc> my montero will continue to live after I die
21:27:47 <nioc> although they will probably dump it  :(
21:27:55 <thetitanborn[m]> but this is a business opporunity now
21:28:25 <thetitanborn[m]> "wanna make sure your children inherit your monero? trust us"
21:28:44 <xxfedexx[m]> nioc: Why dumping sound money and buying a centralized shitcoin like EUR or USD or GBP or whatever?
21:28:49 <thetitanborn[m]> just like FB with "what happens with your acc after you die"
21:29:18 <thetitanborn[m]> xxfedexx[m]: mostly because centralized shit moves fastest
21:29:43 <nioc> xxfedexx[m]: people gunna people
21:29:44 <lberrymage[m]> Is it okay to treat a "root" Monero address as just another subaddress, or does it have special properties in comparison to subaddresses that I should be aware of?
21:30:02 <thetitanborn[m]> > Is it okay to treat a "root" Monero address as just another subaddress, or does it have special properties in comparison to subaddresses that I should be aware of?
21:30:02 <thetitanborn[m]> great question
21:30:07 <lberrymage[m]> Asking because some software still doesn't support subaddresses
21:30:11 <dartian[m]> lberrymage[m]: personally I would never use the main address 
21:30:44 <lberrymage[m]> Yeah I'd do the same to be on the safe side
21:30:52 <dartian[m]> aren't they getting rid of the primary address? or was that not decided?
21:31:35 <lberrymage[m]> * safe side. Sometimes you need to though
21:32:23 <dartian[m]> What I consider to be crazy, and no one seems to listen for **some reason**, is that cake wallet's built in exchange always defaults to the primary address as the return address for xmr
21:33:02 <thetitanborn[m]> dartian[m]: even if you make several wallets in cake?
21:33:24 <dartian[m]> thetitanborn[m]: primary address of the wallet you have open
21:33:41 <lberrymage[m]> dartian[m]: That would be cool. I'll have to look into it
21:34:40 <dartian[m]> so you send xmr>btc to a kyc place, then send xmr>btc to donate to truckers in Canada... and now changenow has data that connects your kyc source to that donation. and every other xmr to something else exchange
21:35:29 <xxfedexx[m]> They seriously do not accept Monero?
21:35:59 <thetitanborn[m]> can't you exchange from monero to USDT > BTC?
21:36:40 <xxfedexx[m]> Yes you can
21:36:56 <xxfedexx[m]> But if the exchange is KYC then it can see your BTC transaction
21:37:01 <xxfedexx[m]> * BTC transaction and your identity
21:37:59 <dartian[m]> I was saying that using the same xmr return address for every exchange, links those exchanges together. whether it's the primary address or not. it should be a unique subaddress for each exchange 
21:39:56 <thetitanborn[m]> man, I just realized that I messed it up...
21:41:19 <dartian[m]> thetitanborn[m]: which isn't entirely your fault. cake fills it out for you as a suggestion. if it were blank it would at least prompt you to think about it. it doesn't even tell you it's the primary wallet address... you'd have to recognize that from the format
21:42:02 <thetitanborn[m]> no, not with Cake, I am not even into monero yet. I jus ofound it today
21:42:04 <thetitanborn[m]> but I made some cash in crypto this week and I am undoxxed
21:42:09 <thetitanborn[m]> problem is I exited through Binance
21:42:14 <lberrymage[m]> Primary addresses always start with a 4, right? (and have other differentiators)
21:46:05 <thetitanborn[m]> I have to say
21:46:15 <thetitanborn[m]> I really like this community because it seems to attract a lot of smart people
21:46:27 <thetitanborn[m]> checking out this video someone gave me
21:46:41 <thetitanborn[m]> he explains Monero. profession: particle physicist. lmao
21:46:44 <thetitanborn[m]> love it
21:47:28 <lberrymage[m]> Care to share?
21:47:39 <thetitanborn[m]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC9Uu5BUxII
21:47:47 <lberrymage[m]> Thanks
21:47:56 <dartian[m]> I am a rocket scientist and some of the smartest people I know I have found in monero community
21:48:34 <thetitanborn[m]> started listening to opt out today and I am really impressed
21:48:44 <thetitanborn[m]> VERY underrated podcast
21:48:53 <nioc> the only way using the same primary address is a potential issue is if the different exchanges share info
21:49:20 <nioc> which means your identity as well as the address
21:50:10 <nioc> I believe even then it is probabilistic results 
21:50:27 <thetitanborn[m]> eventually exchanges will share info
21:50:38 <thetitanborn[m]> either through monopoly or M&A
21:51:04 <thetitanborn[m]> closer term I am more worried about data breaches
21:51:42 <lberrymage[m]> I'm more concerned about market manipulation
21:51:52 <lberrymage[m]> You could do a lot of harm if you hacked an exchange
21:52:25 <lberrymage[m]> And the Coinbase incident doesn't exactly ease that concern
21:52:29 <nioc> yes there was just a plan announced for exchanges to share info 
21:52:43 <nioc> a group of them
21:53:22 <nioc> get morono from exchange > send to another wallet 
21:53:24 <nioc> done
21:53:58 <nioc> comapred to anything else montero is easy to use
21:54:06 <nioc> *compared
21:54:48 <thetitanborn[m]> what exchanges can you get it from?
21:54:48 <thetitanborn[m]> btw can you get it form changelly? I think you can
21:54:58 <thetitanborn[m]> since I saw cake has moonpay for BTC
21:58:04 <lberrymage[m]> thetitanborn[m]: There's a list here: https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/#exchanges
21:58:09 <nioc> changelly has a bad reputation 
21:58:34 <dartian[m]> <nioc> "the only way using the same..." <- or if the info gets hacked, or supeonad. I don't know these exchanges and I don't want to "trust" them with my financial info. That's self defeating imho
21:58:35 <thetitanborn[m]> nioc: in the market? why? or just with the monero community?
21:59:11 <nioc> have heard several complaints about them, they have a long history
21:59:32 <nioc> if you already have crypto then I would just use tradeogre
21:59:38 <nioc> fees are much less
22:01:12 <nioc> I believe they only have btc/xmr pair but still 0.2% per trade 
22:03:53 <dartian[m]> just be careful about leaving funds on TO. It's good, and I use it. They can ghost at any time with how they are set up tho
22:08:18 <nioc> for sure
22:14:29 <inlight> hi