00:00:56 <Kivojo[m]> I was never being able to forget Justin Ehrenhofer and Erciccione for those recent events (if you know what I'm talking, you know)
00:04:59 <Kivojo[m]> These people just don't tolerate the difference between ideas that different people have, they are stuck in the old cliche of "left-right" and "woke-conservative"
00:05:08 <Kivojo[m]> This is not what we need 
00:05:51 <Kivojo[m]> And also I don't need a 150K application written in ELECTRON!
00:08:07 <Kivojo[m]> I know, this stupid element (matrix client) is also in electron, but I've had no better choice. It's all about choices
00:10:29 <Kivojo[m]> nvm, I was just brainstorming
00:21:35 <Torr> Kivojo[m]: What's up?
00:22:31 <Kivojo[m]> Torr: Latest proposal of Haveno
00:50:05 <nioc> yes let's not fund Haveno and constantly get money from the operation of it, instead let them use the backers that will invest in them and let them take the money /s
00:56:46 <Kivojo[m]> <nioc> "yes let's not fund Haveno and..." <- I didn't say that
00:57:57 <Kivojo[m]> It must be a better option than paying $150K for front-end and not being able to choose where you want the fees go
00:58:11 <Kivojo[m]> s/It/There/, s/be/exist/
00:58:42 <Kivojo[m]> The end user have to choose where the fees will go
00:58:47 <nioc> sorry, I was reacting to much of the uninformed talk that is going on elsewhere 
00:59:27 <Kivojo[m]> Kivojo[m]: not some centralized entity (whether it be Engine, HCT, MCT or whatever)
00:59:36 <Kivojo[m]> nioc: No problem mate
01:06:03 <Kivojo[m]> <Kivojo[m]> "The end user have to choose..." <- And anybody who is familiar with programming knows that this approach a lot easier and hell of a lot more efficient 
01:06:03 <Kivojo[m]> Just look at Feather wallet and how it shows the list of latest CCS in its main page, you have to do the same thing and add an option in the settings of the program for the end user to choose what CCS, Monerujo funding, Engine proposal he/she wants to donate the fees to.
01:07:16 <Kivojo[m]> > <@kivojo:agoradesk.com> The end user have to choose where the fees will go
01:07:16 <Kivojo[m]>  * And anybody who is familiar with programming knows that this approach's a lot easier and hell of a lot more efficient
01:07:16 <Kivojo[m]> Just look at Feather wallet and how it shows the list of latest CCS in its main page, you have to do the same thing and add an option in the settings of the program for the end user to choose what CCS, Monerujo funding, Engine proposal he/she wants to donate the fees to.
01:08:32 <Kivojo[m]> Asking $150K for these simple tasks you could have done right and you didn't is what I'm consider an act not in the good fate
01:12:12 <Kivojo[m]> s/'m//
01:14:50 <Kivojo[m]> s/'m//, s/the//
01:38:42 <nioc> interesting idea about choosing funding, it might well keep people engaged in Monero's development
01:38:45 <nioc> there won't always be an open CCS so there would have to be a backup that would look like what is in the proposal
01:40:31 <nioc> there was much research into what was needed for the front end and there has been public discussion on cost and scope
01:42:02 <nioc> there are more funding avenues besides CCS
01:43:45 <nioc> in general, where the Haveno generated $ might go, not talking about the Haveno CCS proposal itself
01:46:12 <johnfoss68[m]> Are there any longer time Monero community members that care to comment on my CCS proposal for The Monero Moon?
01:47:15 <johnfoss68[m]> I'm not exactly a tin foil hat sort of guy, but one of the persons who commented on my CCS proposal, their history shows that all their comments oppose other proposals such as monerokon 
01:47:37 <johnfoss68[m]> And the other person's account was created yesterday 
01:49:53 <johnfoss68[m]> Anyone know if there's a community meeting scheduled? I used to attend these a few years ago but life gets in the way, but I can set an alarm and get up in the middle of the night if needed. 
01:51:01 <Kivojo[m]> <nioc> "there won't always be an open..." <- In that case I'm sure a list of xmr donations addresses for charities and not-for-profit organizations would do the work
01:51:17 <Kivojo[m]> s/donations/donation/
01:52:16 <Kivojo[m]> That doesn't make any sense to me to keep funds in custody while there is no CCS or proposal
01:52:35 <Kivojo[m]> Hate it or lose it
01:53:30 <chesterfield[m]> https://www.coincenter.org/new-crypto-sanctions-bill-targets-publishing-code-facilitating-transactions/
01:53:31 <Torr> Put the address of gnuteardrops[m], his work is a piece of art, literally.
01:53:56 <chesterfield[m]> is anyone looking into mirroring monero code projects onto something more resilient than github?
01:54:19 <nioc> also makes little sense not to hold onto it for big projects that would need funding.  That's the thing about haveno, it will allow more and bigger projects
01:54:56 <nioc> chesterfield[m]: has only been discussed for years,  there is a mirror somewhere
01:55:07 <Kivojo[m]> chesterfield[m]: I've been shouting to mirror it to codeberg and gitea for the past 6 months
01:55:42 <chesterfield[m]> it would really be a good idea to start pushing off github/gitlab
01:55:52 <chesterfield[m]> much better to do before the hammer falls
01:56:16 <chesterfield[m]> is there anything that can be done with ipfs where multiple people can seed these repos?
01:56:22 <nioc> johnfoss68[m]: yeah spam has been an issue recently but all comments are weighted / take that into account 
01:57:05 <nioc> luigi was in here the other day asking how many "newsletter" do we need funded by the CCS
01:57:19 <nioc> the response was.....silence 
01:57:45 <nioc> neither yes or no
01:57:54 <jwinterm> johnfoss68[m]: tbh I haven't read yours, but in general I feel like anything outside of actual dev work, research or implementation on core stuff, never tends to work out so well
01:58:00 <jwinterm> not that dev work always works out well
01:58:23 <jwinterm> but just of the ones that have gone especially poorly, they tend to be PR or marketing related
01:59:00 <chesterfield[m]> project coral reef was one of the greatest and most successful CCS proposals man will ever know
01:59:05 <jwinterm> that chinese forum one a while ago, sailfish record thing or whatever, doug monero talk one, tesla giveaway
01:59:31 <jwinterm> I guess funding to get conferences off the ground is net good, even if original monerokon was a little bumpy
01:59:34 <chesterfield[m]> jwinterm: you're just pissed you didn't get the tesla
01:59:40 <chesterfield[m]> > tesla siri drive me home
01:59:46 <jwinterm> mebbe
02:00:41 <nioc> yes tesla, which has a camera on the driver at all times and sends that info back to headquarters \o/
02:01:06 <nioc> mebbe also on the backseat with your lover 
02:02:02 <chesterfield[m]> nioc: the cheapest onlyfans recording studio
02:05:38 <nioc> I follow things closely enough so I don't read aggregate Monero news
02:06:28 <johnfoss68[m]> <jwinterm> "but just of the ones that have..." <- I've put through two CCS proposals before and they've gone through fine, and in my personal opinion marketing is something monero sorely has lacked over the years, so I'm just trying to plug that hole
02:07:41 <johnfoss68[m]> Only marketing one that I remember ppl being upset with was that million dollar music artist promotion a few years ago
02:07:59 <nioc> also tesla giveaway 
02:08:36 <nioc> and yes the chinese forum was the biggest bust 
02:08:40 <johnfoss68[m]> Oh yeah haha, that got rushed through somehow?
02:09:01 <nioc> yeah cause people were lined up to fund it
02:09:20 <nioc> they knew elon would ignore it so they would get their $ back
02:09:32 <nioc> just a BS stunt
02:09:50 <johnfoss68[m]> Well I like to think with my proposal first of all ppl know exactly what they're getting, and I've been apart of the Monero community for over five years demonstrates I'm not a dodgy bastard.
02:10:13 <nioc> can confirm ^^
02:11:05 <jwinterm> I almost never donate, so...probably not missing my money
02:11:15 <jwinterm> link to proposal?
02:12:05 <johnfoss68[m]> Yeah that's what I figured, no one has to donate if they don't want to. I mean I don't donate to every single CCS 
02:12:22 <johnfoss68[m]> And some I give more generously to
02:12:38 <Google1> yeah, you might be legit johnfoss68[m]. problem is, your angle might not be the "appropriate" one.
02:12:40 <johnfoss68[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/294
02:13:09 <nioc> those negative accounts are most likely sockpuppets :)
02:13:37 <Google1> most definitely. Who the fuck is Kill Bill? :s
02:13:57 <nioc> probably you
02:14:05 <Google1> Nope.
02:14:06 <Google1> Not me.
02:14:17 <johnfoss68[m]> Yeah I thought they might be. Plus my posts to the newsletter in the Monero subreddit have been getting downvoted. 
02:14:20 <Google1> You can ask "Kill Bill" for KYC.
02:15:23 <jwinterm> is your last name really foss?
02:15:38 <johnfoss68[m]> The only concern I have heard is use of monerochan images in the newsletter, but that's an easy fix if that's something the community is concerned about, eg don't put them in
02:15:53 <jwinterm> basically like 2 xmr/issue?
02:16:16 <jwinterm> lol 
02:16:20 <johnfoss68[m]> No it's not Foss. 
02:16:46 <jwinterm> would have been cool
02:16:54 <jwinterm> I own foss.farm
02:16:54 <johnfoss68[m]> Yeah 2 xmr. So like 330usd when I made proposal 
02:17:03 <jwinterm> would have sold it to you for 2 xmr
02:17:33 <johnfoss68[m]> My last one I was funded for 1 xmr at price of 350usd and I obviously pushed out the issues even though price halved
02:17:53 <jwinterm> oh it says it right in there
02:17:57 <jwinterm> derp
02:18:16 <johnfoss68[m]> Foss farm lol
02:18:57 <jwinterm> maybe better to do biweekly for 6 months?
02:20:19 <Google1> What is the point of rolling out biweekly when there is literally 3 weekly newsletters, one other that is daily and also does a monthly wrap up (Monero Blitz by Monero Observer)?
02:20:26 <Google1> Seriously. What is the point?
02:20:51 <Google1> https://www.monero.observer/monero-observer-blitz-february-2022/
02:21:11 <johnfoss68[m]> I thought about bi-weekly but in my opinion people's attention spans are so short these days, and news changes so quick, that weekly seemed better to shove Monero in front of their eyes on a more often basis 
02:21:39 <Google1> Correct.
02:21:56 <Google1> ...with the right "angle"... that is...
02:22:17 <johnfoss68[m]> First of all I was before both of them, my content is arguably more informative than ruevuo, more images, videos, includes commentary
02:22:29 <johnfoss68[m]> Tbh I'm surprised you're so against my proposal lol
02:22:37 <Google1> Right, because your newsletter was born well before Revuo Monero...
02:22:44 <johnfoss68[m]> Monero Observer is great
02:22:49 <Google1> Yeah...
02:23:41 <johnfoss68[m]> And two are local monero newsletter publications, one of which was recently started and is very very very similar to mine
02:23:56 <johnfoss68[m]> Ruevuo is similar too
02:24:16 <Google1> Oh, totally. Revuo Monero is the very same thing as "Da" Monero Standard and Monero Moon.
02:24:21 <Google1> They all look "da same".
02:24:37 <johnfoss68[m]> And probably most importantly, I am 100% independent with no ties or alliances with any members or organisations with Monero 
02:25:41 <Google1> The Monero Standard (https://localmonero.co/the-monero-standard), Monero Moon (https://medium.com/feed/themoneromoon) y Revuo Monero (https://revuo-xmr.com/).
02:25:47 <Google1> For context ^.
02:25:56 <johnfoss68[m]> For example, localmonero hosted newsletter may not cover positive news or developments related to a competitor
02:26:17 <Google1> johnfoss68[m]: Oh, certainly. Revuo Monero severely involved with Monero Core Team.
02:26:36 <Google1> How does Rotten dare open his mouth in this issue at all... How dare...
02:27:24 <soiledcold[m]> Google1: Opens for this c*ck (jk)
02:27:24 <soiledcold[m]> Sorry I just had to
02:28:06 <nioc> how do you juggle so many
02:28:55 <jwinterm> this is neat monero donation trivia that apparently you have to use the wayback machine to find now https://web.archive.org/web/20150602224358/http://getmonero.org/getting-started/donate/hall-of-fame
02:29:21 <Google1> OK, cool story.
02:29:41 <Google1> nioc: I don't know. I must keep mocking up new alias because xmrscott[m] keeps nuking me off of Matrix side. So...
02:29:53 <Google1> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
02:29:54 <entry1[m]> Johnfoss makes great newsletters, as does escap3 and rotten. There is nothing wrong with all the different platfoems and different ones. Hope you meet your goal!
02:30:07 <entry1[m]> s/platfoems/platforms/
02:30:42 <Kivojo[m]> <Google1> "Oh, totally. Revuo Monero is the..." <- Lol that "da" destroyed me, sorry I didn't chose the name :)
02:31:29 <johnfoss68[m]> Yeah I've got no issues with any ppl or entities within monero. Tbh I pretty shocked to see sock puppets commenting on my CCS lol. I main goal is just to help monero grow through increased marketing, and do my part within the community.
02:32:16 <nioc> rotten upvoting the puppets 
02:32:47 <johnfoss68[m]> But yeah this is petty but I know my newsletter came before the others, so can't help if people wanna copy something good 😝
02:32:59 <Google1> Right... it's not like I run El Monero, the only Spanish Monero podcast to ever exist and they are just jumping in to voice their opinions.
02:33:05 <Kivojo[m]> <johnfoss68[m]> "For example, localmonero..." <- I object, I was being able to publish without them criticizing anything about it, yet.
02:33:14 <Google1> nioc: You keep gaslighting me. I will keep doing _my_ volunteering job across the street. Thanks a lot.
02:33:36 <nioc> yes keep doing the good work
02:33:55 <nioc> let others do theirs 
02:34:19 <johnfoss68[m]> Localmonero approached me last year to publish on their site, but I said no because I thought it may impact on my neutral position 
02:34:37 <Kivojo[m]> s/chose/choose/
02:34:49 <johnfoss68[m]> But yeah I do like your work Kivojo! keep it up mate 
02:36:35 <Kivojo[m]> johnfoss68[m]: ✌️
02:37:52 <Kivojo[m]> johnfoss68[m]: Basically I was a voiceless person and they gave me a voice. That doesn't mean I let them to take that voice away if they want.
02:50:45 <prodezzargenta[m> Yes, I've recently created that account because I was following some of the news in GitLab, but I've never knew how to comment. The Spanish Monero Community told me how to.
02:51:41 <prodezzargenta[m> <johnfoss68[m]> "I'm not exactly a tin foil hat..." <- I've just give you my honest opinion about the subject. No need to think about "a tin foil hat"
02:53:24 <prodezzargenta[m> s/give/gave/
03:07:42 <prodezzargenta[m> And for those who refers to me as a "rotten's puppet" because I come from the same spanish community: I made an investigation of +780 pages for two years about the history of money, economic theory, cryptocurrencies, and why Monero is the best solution.
03:08:30 <prodezzargenta[m> This is the link of my work (which I'm currently translating to english, in order to be "universal"): https://github.com/prodezzargenta/about-cryptocurrencies
03:14:18 <prodezzargenta[m> I really don't care about gossips and I'm completely out of whatever happened here with Rotten. We can stop these unnecesary comments and work HONESTLY as a global community; or we could just lie to ourselves, and divide our efforts by separating the community in: the "rotten's spanish puppies", and the rest of Monero.
03:19:36 <prodezzargenta[m> I  care about using Monero because I see it as a mean to survive in a country where there's an ongoing risk of a new hyperinflation (without having any war). That's one of the points I make in my work. If we're going to disrespect each other because of whatever meaningless things are going on here, well... Guess I'll have to work on my own (or with the spanish community). End.
03:20:03 <prodezzargenta[m> s/give/given/
03:30:31 <nioc> I had no idea you were the one who posted 
03:32:28 <nioc> so it wasn't because of any ties you might have
03:33:05 <nioc> rotten and I know each other for quite a while
03:33:52 <nioc> notice how how didn't go off on me for such accusations :)
03:36:10 <nioc> but yes my point was to let people do their work
03:36:21 <nioc> thank you for what you do
03:59:43 <DogeStandard[m]> Is seraphis quantum resistant?
05:04:22 <Keiji[m]> <Kivojo[m]> "I know, this stupid element (..." <- There are non-Electron Matrix clients. Some were pretty bad a year ago I think, but many have improved. Fractal is finishing a major rewrite
05:05:22 <Kivojo[m]> Keiji[m]: Fractal is good but it doesn't have proxy support built-in and won't work with `torsocks`.
05:05:41 <Google1> Just use SchildiChat, you larpers. schildi.chat.
05:11:17 <Kivojo[m]> <Google1> "Just use SchildiChat, you..." <- unfortunately not available for my distro
05:12:42 <Epsilon> Kivojo[m]: They provide AppImages on their GitHub
05:13:46 <Kivojo[m]> Epsilon: I'd rather compile it myself than use an appimage
08:17:50 <ursus69[m]> <entry1[m]> "No, its decentralized and..." <- It depends on stock market manipulation, and as the "big brother" is buying it more, more it can manipulate.
08:46:44 <monerooo[m]> Hey guys, any other requests? Features that are missing? Currently available languages: English, German
08:46:44 <monerooo[m]> https://moner.ooo
09:33:40 <bridgerton[m]> <Martin L> any list of xmr merchants , that i can add of?
12:33:19 <jonah_xd[m]> <Google1> "Just use SchildiChat, you..." <- Its literally element with a diffrent look
13:48:33 <bridgerton[m]> <Veemo> i wanted to ask is there something like ebay where you can pay with monero? id like to buy books using it
14:02:30 <bridgerton[m]> <Martin L> dark web markets?
14:02:43 <bridgerton[m]> <Veemo> nah legit stuff lmao
14:02:58 <bridgerton[m]> <Martin L> you can purchase books in dark web
14:03:11 <bridgerton[m]> <Veemo> manga too?
18:38:40 <bridgerton[m]> <Veemo> whats the point of being able to sign messages with the wallet?
18:38:58 <bridgerton[m]> <Veemo> couldnt i just use a good messenger that does it automatically
18:40:43 <ComplyLast> to prove you're the owner of that wallet
18:40:58 <bridgerton[m]> <Veemo> oh ok
18:41:10 <bridgerton[m]> <Veemo> i was just looking around my wallet cause i was bored
18:47:08 <atomfried[m]> <Kivojo[m]> "I'd rather compile it myself..." <- thats ridicules if it is not in your package manager of your distro just use an appimage