00:03:56 <surgeon_[m]> You couldn't make up a James Bond villian that would even come close to these people without being laughed out of your pitch meeting. 
00:36:34 <Kivojo[m]> <surgeon_[m]> "You couldn't make up a James..." <- Couldn't agree more.
02:49:46 <hintojanaiyo[m]> hi guys, anyone using linux want to help beta test?
02:49:52 <hintojanaiyo[m]> https://github.com/hinto-janaiyo/monero-bash
02:51:05 <hintojanaiyo[m]> ive been testing the functionality and debugging extensively the past couple days but it would be nice if people could find bugs
02:51:49 <hintojanaiyo[m]> i recommend using a vm if you wanna be on the safe side
02:58:27 <demitasse[m]> does this download the whole blockchain? I want to help but on a laptop with small ssd
03:03:35 <chesterfield[m]> <hintojanaiyo[m]> "ive been testing the functionali..." <- it would be nice to know what options are available to install
03:04:03 <chesterfield[m]> i.e. monero-bash install without a package should tell me what options there are
03:12:36 <hintojanaiyo[m]> yeah ui/messages are rough, focused on making it work first
03:12:39 <hintojanaiyo[m]> `monero-bash version` should show everything
03:14:09 <hintojanaiyo[m]> <demitasse[m]> "does this download the whole..." <- it does
03:39:57 <plowsof[m]> Any wordpress / website builders want to earn 1k in XMR? https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ttg75q/seeking_web_site_wordpress_builder_for/
05:05:05 <Cknight70[m]> this room
05:05:07 <Cknight70[m]> is taking fucking
05:05:17 <Cknight70[m]> 20% of my server's resources
05:05:20 <Cknight70[m]> to resolve all the extremities
05:05:22 <Cknight70[m]> what the fuck
05:22:31 <DaveJevansCEOCip> <Cknight70[m]> "20% of my server's resources" <- Sorry, we'll slow down our backup system
05:22:54 <monerobull[m]> <Cknight70[m]> "what the fuck" <- Well there are 1 k people in here and the monero community will make greater use of smaller servers -> more federation (at least thats how i think it works)
05:24:23 <Cknight70[m]> synapse has been way heavier resolving since 1.55
05:24:32 <Cknight70[m]> not just this room
07:12:55 <mj-xmr[m]> <Kivojo[m]> "09fcb1a8-1d05-47eb-88b3-..." <- It means you want to ride on Blockchain's popularity, but you won't mention that it was made in order to stop your rampant inflation, that you will continue. Blockchain or not. Ah yeah. And we're to be blamed for inflation.
13:22:29 <anhdres[m]> <Kivojo[m]> "09fcb1a8-1d05-47eb-88b3-..." <- pretty straightforward, I'll give her that
13:22:50 <anhdres[m]> keep monerin'
13:23:41 <anhdres[m]> this is going to be a bumpy road
14:30:58 <bridgerton[m]> <~/.bitmonero/lmdb/data.dir> Hello,
14:30:58 <bridgerton[m]> anyone down to build the monero logo with us on r/place?
14:30:58 <bridgerton[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/place/?cx=975&cy=487&px=5
14:40:23 <bridgerton[m]> <ian.niculescu> made a reddit account just for this
16:12:07 * soiledcold[m] uploaded an image: (263KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/YfEQrVukyByybUNFDAKwzkqM/ima_b35e63b.jpeg >
16:12:12 <soiledcold[m]> Doing this on r/place join https://discord.gg/2rdZT55P
16:12:19 <soiledcold[m]> Need all the reddit accs we can get
16:16:16 <DaveJevansCEOCip> I'll see if I can get some staff from HQ on this.
16:53:43 <inlight> hey
16:53:54 <inlight> sethforprivacy: did you check the blog about threema ?
16:53:59 <inlight> i sent you that day
16:55:48 <sethforprivacy> I've read it in the past but not for a while. Feel free to re-send it.
17:18:39 <inlight> ok here
17:19:06 <inlight> sethforprivacy: https://soatok.blog/2021/11/05/threema-three-strikes-youre-out/
17:19:37 <inlight> ^ so you must not blindly follow/promote any new tech. 
17:34:46 <r4v3r23[m]> <inlight> "^ so you must not blindly follow..." <- its almost as if people should do their own research instead of follower wannabe influencers
17:35:27 <r4v3r23[m]> > <@inlight:libera.chat> ^ so you must not blindly follow/promote any new tech.
17:35:27 <r4v3r23[m]>  * its almost as if people should do their own research instead of following a wannabe influencers
17:35:31 <r4v3r23[m]> s/follower/following/
17:38:48 <DaveJevansCEOCip> r4v3r23[m]: Who hurt you
17:39:33 <r4v3r23[m]> if you think offloading your own thinking to others is a good thing then you do you
17:40:24 <DaveJevansCEOCip> We offload our thinking all the time.  No one has time to understand every detail of everything. 
17:42:04 <r4v3r23[m]> when it comes to personal privacy and security you have more personal responsibility
17:42:28 <r4v3r23[m]> taking some talking heads opinions as gospel is the wrong way to go
17:42:55 <DaveJevansCEOCip> The guy that wrote the Threema post also recommends Zcash.  I guess I'll be leaving now.
17:42:58 <skweege[m]> Of course, but the ability to converse with others and compare research is a fundamental part of advancing our privacy
17:43:00 <r4v3r23[m]> just look at matt odell, a "respected" influencer in the bitcoin privacy space
17:43:15 <r4v3r23[m]> motherfucker supported cash app and wasabi as a privacy solution for the longest time
17:43:33 <DaveJevansCEOCip> Yeah people should never be able to make bad decisions or change their recommendations
17:43:40 <r4v3r23[m]> you know how many users privacy he damaged by shoving his worthless opinion out there?
17:43:46 <skweege[m]> No one should take another person’s word as gospel, but as long as there’s solid sources you can’t go wrong with accepting what is said
17:44:02 <r4v3r23[m]> DaveJevansCEOCip: personally do what you want. dont go out there with "recommendations" that others should follow
17:44:09 <r4v3r23[m]> and sell your self as a privacy advocate
17:44:24 <DaveJevansCEOCip> Then why are you criticizing others and making recommendations
17:44:26 <r4v3r23[m]> DYOR is a thing for a reason
17:45:06 <DaveJevansCEOCip> Why are you still talking if recommendations don't matter an people should be using their own brains
17:45:14 <r4v3r23[m]> skweege[m]: thats what doing research is vs following an influencer
17:45:28 <DaveJevansCEOCip> So you're saying seth doesn't do research?
17:45:35 <DaveJevansCEOCip> Matt doesn't do research?
17:45:47 <r4v3r23[m]> the point is thats their own opinions
17:45:56 <r4v3r23[m]> dont try and tell others what to do
17:46:00 <DaveJevansCEOCip> What if they do research and someone else does research and shares that research and changes the original researchers opinion
17:46:13 <r4v3r23[m]> its attention seeking more than anything
17:46:19 <DaveJevansCEOCip> Can you do research and be wrong?
17:46:29 <r4v3r23[m]> of course
17:46:40 <DaveJevansCEOCip> I've researched things before and later found that my research was incorrect
17:46:54 <r4v3r23[m]> privacy and security are personal
17:46:55 <r4v3r23[m]> we all have different threat models
17:47:02 <DaveJevansCEOCip> So do you recommend that Seth and Matt stop sharing their research findings?
17:47:08 <r4v3r23[m]> ill do my own research and come to my own conclusions based on my own needs, thanks
17:47:24 <r4v3r23[m]> but if you have a talking head about there screaming that X solution is best and its not
17:47:31 <sethforprivacy> It would be best if no one talked about privacy, shared their opinions/thoughts out of their own privacy journey, or recommended literally anything 🙃
17:47:31 <r4v3r23[m]> youre doing more damage than good
17:47:42 <DaveJevansCEOCip> Point me to the post where someone is screaming that X solution is the best
17:47:45 <sethforprivacy> World would be much better off if we just all said "DYOR" to any question or topic.
17:47:51 <r4v3r23[m]> DaveJevansCEOCip: go back to my original message that you quoted
17:50:45 <sethforprivacy> On a serious note, how did I personally hurt you, r4v3r23? You take literally any chance you can to attack me personally on unrelated discussions. Why?
17:51:40 <sethforprivacy> I wasn't even in the discussion and you attacked me lol
17:52:06 <SerHack> DYOR
17:52:49 <r4v3r23[m]> sethforprivacy: you didnt. i dont know you. its your kind i have a problem with. coming from the bitcoin privacy space ive seen people begging for guides and rules to follow to get "perfect privacy" as if its something they can just mindlessly follow and be ok
17:53:12 <r4v3r23[m]> real privacy and security are offensive, you have to know your own risk models and create your own solutions
17:53:32 <r4v3r23[m]> following some ones "best practices" is antithetical to DYOR
17:53:51 <garth> Sethforprivacy: I for one LOVE the way you’ve helped me and others become more private. Thanks Seth!
17:55:37 <DaveJevansCEOCip> r4v3r23[m]: Seth had a podcast on this: https://optoutpod.com/episodes/s1e04-nathan-thenewoil/
17:56:05 <sethforprivacy> r4v3r23[m]: What is "my kind"?
17:56:10 <DaveJevansCEOCip> I think it would be helpful if you suggested a handful of topics for future podcast episodes.  How to get people to DYOR, etc.
17:56:36 <sethforprivacy> I never post anything claiming it covers all threat models or is the perfect thing for anyone. I've been quite clear on threat models and their implications in blog posts and podcasts.
17:56:47 <sethforprivacy> I don't tell people "do this and you'll be perfectly private", ever.
17:57:15 <sethforprivacy> r4v3r23[m]: This is an utterly ridiculous statement, best practices are a great start, and often the best place for noobs to start as they learn more.
17:57:51 <r4v3r23[m]> sethforprivacy: not if you dont understand why they are "best" to begin with
17:57:53 <sethforprivacy> Following best practices doesn't mean you don't (or shouldn't) DYOR.
17:58:05 <r4v3r23[m]> often people making recommendations are just parroting
17:58:14 <sethforprivacy> r4v3r23[m]: Then DYOR 😉
17:58:27 <r4v3r23[m]> sethforprivacy: thats exactly my point
17:59:03 <sethforprivacy> There's no reason to personally hate anyone trying to educate or inform people ont he need for privacy and the tools available lmao
17:59:15 <r4v3r23[m]> i dont hate
18:00:13 <sethforprivacy> You go out of your way to attack me and anyone else trying to do something good.
18:00:26 <DaveJevansCEOCip> r4v3r23[m]: Give some constructive feedback then
18:00:32 <r4v3r23[m]> "good" is relative
18:00:40 <sethforprivacy> r4v3r23[m]: Then what is it? Why spend so much of your time attacking others if it's not hate?
18:01:40 <r4v3r23[m]> sethforprivacy: you just think that any criticism against what you think is true is some sort of attack
18:02:34 <sethforprivacy> You consume and discourage actively, I don't really get why.
18:02:34 <sethforprivacy> r4v3r23[m]: Nothing you've said about me is true, so I'm not really sure your aim here.
18:02:40 <sethforprivacy> You just hated me as soon as you made your account here/joined lol
18:02:48 <sethforprivacy> I have literally no clue why.
18:03:00 <r4v3r23[m]> youre taking this personally. like i said, i dont know you
18:03:23 <sethforprivacy> So you don't know me, but go out of your way to call me out and attack me constantly?
18:03:26 <sethforprivacy> How does that make sense?
18:03:42 <r4v3r23[m]> "constantly"
18:03:45 <r4v3r23[m]> way to prove my point
18:04:10 <r4v3r23[m]> not everything is about you seth
18:04:15 <sethforprivacy> Practically any time I speak in this channel you come out of the woodwork.
18:04:20 <r4v3r23[m]> we were talking about DYOR before you jumped in
18:04:20 <r4v3r23[m]> now its about you
18:04:35 <r4v3r23[m]> sethforprivacy: lmao its a targeted attack
18:04:37 <r4v3r23[m]> gtfo
18:04:40 <sethforprivacy> I don't speak up here often though.
18:05:29 <sethforprivacy> <r4v3r23[m]> "its almost as if people should..." <- This is about me, is it not?
18:05:34 <sethforprivacy> Convo had nothing to do with you
18:05:41 <sethforprivacy> Spoke up and "called me out" for some reason
18:05:46 <r4v3r23[m]> if you identify as one of them then yes
18:05:54 <sethforprivacy> ?
18:06:01 <sethforprivacy> You responded to a message to me, saying that lmao
18:06:11 <sethforprivacy> Don't pretend it's not attacking me
18:06:31 <r4v3r23[m]> like i said, your kind
18:06:37 <r4v3r23[m]> i pointed out matt odell as well
18:06:40 <r4v3r23[m]> there are many others 
18:07:12 <r4v3r23[m]> the general trend towards privacy "thought leaders" is what i am against
18:07:55 <sethforprivacy> And the alternative to people sharing their findings to help others is...?
18:08:28 <r4v3r23[m]> theres a difference between sharing and positing yourself as some kind of authority
18:08:42 <r4v3r23[m]> 4 years i did my own research and came to the conclusion that AOSP on pixels were best for my security needs
18:09:04 <r4v3r23[m]> shared my findings in the samourai telegram chat and loads of people quickly picked up on it
18:09:19 <r4v3r23[m]> fast forward to today and its the defacto standard for mobile crypto security
18:10:00 <sethforprivacy> So... you shared your privacy journey and helped others?
18:10:06 <sethforprivacy> Kind of like what I do...
18:10:26 <r4v3r23[m]> my focus was on sharing the reasonings and research, not making a name for myself
18:10:32 <sethforprivacy> Neither is mine?
18:10:42 <sethforprivacy> That's why I don't understand your personal attacks.
18:10:50 <sethforprivacy> How have I profited or benefited from all of my free work?
18:11:27 <sethforprivacy> Your problem is with me personally, for some reason, and not the content I share apparently. Which is all the more confusing
18:11:48 <r4v3r23[m]> you keep trying to make this personal
18:11:49 <r4v3r23[m]> get over yourself
18:12:11 <sethforprivacy> ???
18:12:13 <sethforprivacy> Ok lmao
18:12:26 <sethforprivacy> You obviously have no ability to discuss in good faith and are just blatantly lying about what you're doing.
18:12:29 <sethforprivacy> Have a good one.
18:12:34 <r4v3r23[m]> right
18:35:09 <inlight> sethforprivacy:  who attacked who ?
18:35:50 <inlight> seth has one of most interesting podcast i listen to! but i don't agree with him!
18:35:54 <sethforprivacy> Not you, just r4v3r23 
18:35:57 <inlight> i listen to pass time
18:36:03 <inlight> and did you read the blog!
18:36:30 <sethforprivacy> Not yet finished
18:36:35 <inlight> but seth thinks using some "privacy tools" give people privacy
18:36:52 <inlight> and i don't agree with you on grin also.
18:37:21 <sethforprivacy> inlight: What do you mean?
18:37:23 <sethforprivacy> inlight: How so?
18:37:54 <inlight> like- i have listened to all of your podcasts, and many time you ask questions from the guest
18:38:02 <inlight> what tools you use to "protect your privacy" 
18:38:16 <inlight> and many such moment has come- that was amusing for me!
18:38:32 <inlight> at that time i didn't knew you hung around here, otherwise i wouldve told you so
18:38:59 <sethforprivacy> Not sure what you mean, what was amusing?
18:39:07 <sethforprivacy> And what's wrong with the question?
18:39:20 <inlight> will recall and tell you later, take with a pinch of salt, nothing personal lol!
18:39:54 <sethforprivacy> Ok!
18:41:38 <inlight> mainly your thought about grin, that it has deep privacy flaws. 
18:41:41 <inlight> https://twitter.com/MW_Grin/status/1496455007868264458?s=20&t=-Js1OLLJRzOIsj-l_bc3Jw
18:42:45 <sethforprivacy> inlight: And? I don't agree with them.
18:43:00 <inlight> fine!
18:43:01 <sethforprivacy> One of the critical flaws in GRINs approach to privacy was a lynch-pin in the case against the DAO hacker.
18:44:23 <inlight> grin doesn't have privacy flaws, maybe your idea of privacy is different than mine. 
18:44:28 <sethforprivacy> ?
18:44:40 <sethforprivacy> Grin is the perfect privacy tool, and you link to a tweet saying there are no perfect privacy tools???
18:44:54 <inlight> grin is a protocol, not a tool!
18:45:11 <sethforprivacy> ?
18:45:14 <sethforprivacy> Its a cryptocurrency...
18:45:27 <inlight> oh you dont understand
18:45:47 <inlight> monero, grin all are a protocol,  (here cryptocurrency protocol)
18:45:56 <inlight> and those tools you use are the implementation of the protocol
18:46:15 <inlight> the protocol in itself isn't insecure or have flaws.
18:46:22 <sethforprivacy> Absolutely false.
18:47:09 <sethforprivacy> No protocol is free of flaws or perfectly secure.
18:48:09 <inlight> here, i am talking about grin/monero.
18:48:16 <inlight> anyways
18:48:52 <sethforprivacy> Ok
18:55:04 <nioc> grin works as long as nobody keeps historical data
18:55:06 <nioc> lol
18:55:10 <r4v3r23[m]> <inlight> "but seth thinks using some "..." <- yup
18:59:16 <sethforprivacy> Or actively surveils the network, or monitors receiving nodes, etc. etc.
19:04:24 <inlight> anyone knows about: https://monnaie-libre.fr/
19:05:11 <inlight> "A Decentralized Digital Currency Without Capitalism"
19:06:02 <inlight> because- centralization is inevitable under capitalism
19:06:50 <inlight> True decentralization requires adhering to the principles of cryptoanarchists, which requires an anarchist digital currency; not an anarchocapitalist one.
19:50:41 <inlight> / 49