10:06:35 <M6z989gjkqz[m]> hello
13:04:45 <cryptogrampy[m]> https://twitter.com/PeterMcCormack/status/1516761323878723591?s=20
13:04:47 <cryptogrampy[m]> WOW
13:04:54 <cryptogrampy[m]> Nice Seth For Privacy: !
13:07:45 <sethforprivacy> He only does in-person interviews so it's a bit tricky, but trying to sort out a time now + flights/hotel/etc.
13:08:06 <sethforprivacy> Have been going back and forth planning it for a while, was supposed to be recorded around BANB but he had to back out due to some personal stuff.
13:08:13 <sethforprivacy> Very, very much looking forward to it 🙂
14:54:57 <Inge> lol. He didn't do only in-person interviews during the pandemic
14:55:18 <Inge> But very cool - he has always had a soft spot for Monero in part due to his .. introduction to crypto
15:16:42 <r4v3r23[m]> the guys an absolute moron
15:23:31 <cryptogrampy[m]> i think even he would be in agreement
15:23:41 <Inge> lel
15:24:20 <cryptogrampy[m]> Getting the word of monero out to people is huge, if it gets 10 people thinking about privacy, great.  if it gets people to start demanding protocol changes in bitcoin, that's also great.
15:53:57 <han-shan[m]> ^^^^^
15:53:57 <han-shan[m]> even if the guy is a moron
16:01:22 <r4v3r23[m]> <cryptogrampy[m]> "Getting the word of monero out..." <- i think you cant teach people to give a fuck about their privacy
16:01:55 <r4v3r23[m]> unfortunately most people will have to get burned a few times before realizing its importance
16:02:02 <cryptogrampy[m]> r4v3r23[m]: you definitely can.  i started learning about monero after coming across the citadel dispatch podcast
16:02:31 <cryptogrampy[m]> i was looking for bitcoin audio to listen to on my morning walk 
16:02:38 <cryptogrampy[m]> and the rest is history
16:04:20 <r4v3r23[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: not sure. citadel is a perfect example - odell just pays lip service to privacy while not actually doing anything about it
16:04:24 <r4v3r23[m]> he does more harm than good
16:05:13 <cryptogrampy[m]> his podcast convinced me that no normal person will ever be able to use bitcoin privately
16:05:36 <r4v3r23[m]> yeah if you can see it in that way cool
16:05:49 <cryptogrampy[m]> i think they mentioned monero once or twice and that's how i learned about it
16:20:33 <sethforprivacy> <cryptogrampy[m]> "you definitely can.  i started..." <- Wow, TIL!
16:20:47 <sethforprivacy> I should tell Matt he's converting people to Monero through Dispatch 😈
16:22:12 <cryptogrampy[m]> cough  cough
16:22:16 * cryptogrampy[m] uploaded an image: (376KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/BNQMnvOuGeBqURybCrNvpxJy/image.png >
16:23:47 <r4v3r23[m]> teaching others by failing yourself 🤣
16:41:29 <han-shan[m]> matt is probably the most visable privacy advocate around.
16:41:29 <han-shan[m]> hard to see how he does more harm than good.
16:41:29 <han-shan[m]> he seems to understand the tradeoffs well and made his judgment call.
16:41:38 <mj-xmr[m]> <r4v3r23[m]> "teaching others by failing..." <- UR mean :)
16:43:40 <r4v3r23[m]> > <@hanshan:usethe.tools> matt is probably the most visable privacy advocate around.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/e9a4f8a6b20144f6376e9b3b3fb6ef1c27d85dce)
16:44:54 <r4v3r23[m]> he's a bitcoin shill first and foremost
16:45:09 <han-shan[m]> the fact that you say that makes me think *you* don't know what you're talking about.
16:45:09 <han-shan[m]> there are plenty of brain dead maxi zombies and matt isn't one of them.
16:45:48 <r4v3r23[m]> you're absolutely right, carry on
16:50:41 <sethforprivacy> > <@hanshan:usethe.tools> the fact that you say that makes me think *you* don't know what you're talking about.
16:50:41 <sethforprivacy> > there are plenty of brain dead maxi zombies and matt isn't one of them.
16:50:41 <sethforprivacy> He's not really worth the time to argue with.
16:50:57 <sethforprivacy> He just spews toxicity and attacks everyone around him.
16:51:59 <r4v3r23[m]> not everyone, just those that need to be called out :)
16:52:14 <sethforprivacy> I unignored him and then quickly realized why I ignored him lol
16:52:18 <r4v3r23[m]> tell me that advocating for LN usage is good for privacy
16:52:24 <sethforprivacy> * why I originally ignored him
16:52:44 <sethforprivacy> Plenty of others in the community that give critical feedback in meaningful ways 🙂
16:53:03 <r4v3r23[m]> "meaningful"
16:53:25 <han-shan[m]> thanks
16:53:25 <han-shan[m]> monero maximalism pisses me off as much as bitcoin maximalism.
16:53:25 <han-shan[m]> imo you and matt do the best job of actually talking through it in a critical way.
16:53:25 <han-shan[m]> (of the big visible people anyway. lots of good people. )
16:54:03 <han-shan[m]> r4v3r23[m]: matt is very clear that LN doesnt provide good privacy for the receiver.
16:54:23 <r4v3r23[m]> still is a LN shill while claiming to be a privacy advocate
16:54:50 <r4v3r23[m]> ive interacted with him and he's just a shill looking for a following
16:55:00 <r4v3r23[m]> theres a reason he left the privacy chats i was a part of with his tail between his legs
16:55:15 <han-shan[m]> lol
16:55:15 <han-shan[m]> ok bro
16:55:22 <han-shan[m]> you're so smart
16:55:35 <han-shan[m]> bye now
16:55:37 <r4v3r23[m]> no, i just do my own research and come to my own conclusions
16:55:43 <r4v3r23[m]> shoot me
16:56:50 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Ln privacy is better than bitcoin l1(if you host channel yourself)
16:57:03 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Most people will use custodial wallet and give them all tx information
16:57:52 <sethforprivacy> ceoofdogenero[m]: The answer is... maybe
16:57:58 <sethforprivacy> Depends on a gazillion things
16:59:44 <nioc> monero depends on using it 
16:59:53 <nioc> so simple
17:05:54 <r4v3r23[m]> <nioc> "monero depends on using it..." <- bingo
17:06:11 <r4v3r23[m]> but you cant make a name for yourself just telling people to do the simple thing
17:14:31 <han-shan[m]> <nioc> "monero depends on using it..." <- monero also depends on a smallish community of developers
17:14:32 <han-shan[m]> and smallish hash rate
17:14:32 <han-shan[m]> in comparison to bitcoin anyway.
17:14:32 <han-shan[m]> everything is tradeoffs.
17:15:08 <nioc> alhow do you compare HR when the algos are different?
17:15:33 <han-shan[m]> some people understand and explain those tradeoffs.
17:15:34 <han-shan[m]> and some make bullshit generalizations and talk trash.
17:15:45 <mj-xmr[m]> Just my 2 cents, but our smallish hash rates are better decentralized.
17:15:48 <han-shan[m]> nioc: kWh
17:15:49 <nioc> HR ultimately depends on the value of the coin
17:15:55 <cheekyleeks> han-shan[m]> monero maximalism pisses me off as much as bitcoin maximalism.
17:15:55 <cheekyleeks> based.
17:16:38 <r4v3r23[m]> mj-xmr[m]: absolutely. who cares if you hav ethe largest hash rate if its all centralized and at the whim of the state
17:16:46 <cheekyleeks> <mj-xmr[m]> Just my 2 cents, but our smallish hash rates are better decentralized.
17:16:46 <cheekyleeks> elaborate without spastically slinging shit at ASICs. I'll be waiting.
17:17:26 <r4v3r23[m]> "smallish group of developers" bitcoin was literally coded by one guy/small team
17:17:38 <cryptogrampy[m]> interesting chart on mining: https://moneroj.net/commit/
17:17:52 <cryptogrampy[m]> kind of hard to wrap my ancient and decaying head around
17:18:58 <mj-xmr[m]> cheekyleeks: I'm sorry, but I cannot. This is mutually exclusive :)
17:18:58 <cryptogrampy[m]> i'm personally glad there is a group of people pushing privacy on bitcoin and teaching people what it actually takes to live privately in a transparent box
17:19:04 <nioc> yes we need more devs.  I have been watching the # of devs increase over time and there are currently several new or relatively new initiatives in place that will continue the increase of devs
17:19:07 <r4v3r23[m]> based
17:19:11 <cryptogrampy[m]> yeah you shouldn't do it, but if you have to, here's what you need to do 
17:19:31 <cheekyleeks> mj-xmr[m]: I figured as much. Monero people cannot talk about "mining decentralization" without dunking on ASICs. It's called short-sightness. Have a good day. xo
17:19:34 <r4v3r23[m]> mj-xmr[m]: based
17:19:40 <cheekyleeks> Muh asics bad hurr durr.
17:19:52 <r4v3r23[m]> maxi confirmed
17:20:00 <mj-xmr[m]> No Mate, it's just correlated.
17:20:08 <cheekyleeks> I'm not your mate, pal.
17:20:15 <nioc> asics are not commodity hardware, never has been
17:20:25 <r4v3r23[m]> ASICs would be awesome if they were as common as CPUs
17:20:29 <cheekyleeks> I won't waste my time debating with brain fog. lol.
17:20:39 <nioc> good choice
17:20:56 <r4v3r23[m]> wheres the ignore button?
17:21:18 <nioc> oh, just realized who I was talking to lolol
17:21:35 <snex> "debate me bro but dont use points that i cant counter"
17:21:41 <nioc> the fog has lifted \o/
17:21:43 <r4v3r23[m]> lmao
17:22:28 <nioc> don't get triggered, cheekyleeks is just making us look at ourselves
17:23:19 <cheekyleeks> nioc: who is getting triggered? I have half the channel ignored. lol.
17:23:19 <r4v3r23[m]> no he's just regurgitating retarded talking points
17:23:29 <cheekyleeks> Time is scarce. Won't engage with retards.
17:23:37 <snex> ok lets talk about car repair. if you need to hook your car up to a million dollar computer in order to diagnose and repair problems, is that more or less decentralized than a classic where everything is mechanical?
17:23:42 <nioc> my ignore button has never been used
17:23:44 <mj-xmr[m]> I say: as long as there are no 100% capital controls imposed by the states, everybody can buy/mine whatever coin Zey/Zem want :)
17:24:13 <snex> how about mobile phones? whats more decentralized, apple phones or pine phones?
17:24:17 <cheekyleeks> snex: TIL an ASIC is a "million dollar computer".
17:24:25 <snex> did i say that?
17:24:30 <cheekyleeks> did I not say that?
17:24:31 <snex> no. so strawman somebody else
17:24:35 <cheekyleeks> lol.
17:24:37 <cheekyleeks> Fuck off.
17:24:41 <snex> respond to the argument presented, not the argument you wish i made
17:24:46 <snex> no, you fuck off
17:24:47 <cheekyleeks> Ok, retard.
17:24:51 <nioc> easy now Mr leeks
17:24:55 <snex> your immediate reaction was to strawman instead of address the issue
17:24:59 <snex> the issue is CENTRALIZATION
17:25:04 <r4v3r23[m]> dont bother, he's here to echo preconceived notions, not actually learn anything
17:25:10 <cheekyleeks> <snex> how about mobile phones? whats more decentralized, apple phones or pine phones?
17:25:10 <cheekyleeks> Apple phones because they are widely distributed. Pine phones are owned by a dozen neckbeards in Idaho.
17:25:20 <luigi1112> why are we fighting today
17:25:23 <snex> rofl ok so repair youor own apple phone
17:25:27 <snex> your*
17:25:37 <snex> show us all how to open it up and replace the battery
17:25:49 <cheekyleeks> easy repair. just bang the iphone with a hammer and get a beater android from 2015.
17:25:50 <mj-xmr[m]> luigi1112: Because what's a party without anybody dead?
17:26:07 <nioc> luigi1112: the usual reason  LD
17:26:12 <snex> why would you get a beater android from 2015?
17:26:13 <cryptogrampy[m]> luigi1112: sir will you please just merge the asic code into monero so we can finally decentralize
17:26:23 <cheekyleeks> snex: why would I not get a beater android from 2015?
17:26:38 <cheekyleeks> cryptogrampy[m]: take it up to "da" council.
17:26:41 <snex> is it because... you can repair it yourself with simple tools and instructions??
17:26:43 <luigi1112> I will slap all ya'll
17:26:48 <cryptogrampy[m]> there are literally billions of people waiting to buy asics right now.  we want to mine!!!! let the people mine!!!
17:26:51 <cheekyleeks> luigi1112: slap deez nutz.
17:26:57 <luigi1112> oops got banned from oscars
17:27:01 <cheekyleeks> lol.
17:27:02 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Monero + asic = decentralized
17:27:13 <nioc> I need to go out and Cat sit for a while, have a good time folks  :)
17:28:20 <snex> seems like you understand why general purpose tools are good for mobile phones but cant make the leap to the same logic for crypto
17:28:53 <cheekyleeks> snex: Imagine. Now let's talk like some pompous ass in a philosophy class room and type: "strawman" argument.
17:29:20 <cheekyleeks> Monero more decentralized. Monero #1 coin marketcap in two weeks. ASICs bad. Hurr durr.
17:29:23 <snex> oh, sorry, did i use a word you didnt understand?
17:30:01 <cheekyleeks> I totes don't know what a strawman argument is. I need to take a shower and a crash course on pompous philosophy Internet debates. Will hit you up once I am on your level, friend.
17:30:03 <r4v3r23[m]> imagine thinking bitcoin is decentralized XD
17:30:04 <snex> "market cap" is irrelevant
17:30:11 <cheekyleeks> Your mom is irrelevant too.
17:30:17 <snex> you are measuring "market cap" with fiat
17:31:46 <snex> you in 1635: tulips have the highest market cap. stop buying gold. buy tulips. buy flower farming equipment.
17:31:53 <r4v3r23[m]> snex: just let him keep talking and hang himself
17:31:54 <r4v3r23[m]> its fun to watch
17:32:05 <cheekyleeks> you are a waste of time lol.
17:32:10 <snex> well if we all stay silent he will give up lol
17:32:12 <cheekyleeks> gotta buy 3 asics more. see ya.
17:32:17 <cryptogrampy[m]> It's been fun guys but Bitcoin is going up forever and every other crypto security and crypto property is going to zero.  Bitcoin is not a cryptocurrency.  It is digital energy.  See you all on Layer 3.
17:32:26 <cheekyleeks> lol.
17:32:39 <r4v3r23[m]> its alien tech from the future that will end all wars and govts
17:32:49 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Btc is digital gold
17:32:49 <r4v3r23[m]> HODL
17:33:01 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Because you can’t use it efficiently as cash
17:33:23 <mj-xmr[m]> Definitely not as a donation to The Truckers...
17:33:42 <cheekyleeks> I mean, I use bitcoin daily as digital cash. But you do you, I do me, lad. ceoofdogenero[m]
17:33:56 <cryptogrampy[m]> i wonder if michael saylor is accidentally using a hallucinogen as a cologne or something.  Perhaps one of the skippers on his yacht is swapping out the shampoo....
17:34:05 <r4v3r23[m]> you think you do
17:34:06 <r4v3r23[m]> cash is fungible
17:34:12 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Do you eat lunch and wait 1 hour for payment?
17:34:18 <cheekyleeks> cryptogrampy[m]: he's just snorting loads of coke and buying corn with delayed loans. chad moves.
17:34:24 <snex> you use bitcoin daily as digital cash? better hope i never find any of your addresses
17:34:26 <ceoofdogenero[m]> s/lunch/diner/
17:34:34 <cheekyleeks> ceoofdogenero[m]: Do I not eat lunch and not wait 1 hour for payment?
17:34:57 <snex> also i hope you are reporting all of those trades to the IRS so that you can pay your fair share
17:35:02 <cheekyleeks> snex: here's my btc address. https://paynym.is/+rapidtruth76f
17:35:07 <ceoofdogenero[m]> In what area u use it as cash?
17:35:11 <cheekyleeks> Go find out about all my past txs. and balances.
17:35:15 <cheekyleeks> ceoofdogenero[m]: Kuwait.
17:35:26 <ceoofdogenero[m]> It’s like telling the world your financial activity
17:35:31 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Value your privacy
17:35:42 <cheekyleeks> I value my privacy, that's why I use samourai wallet. :)
17:35:57 <cheekyleeks> Go take a look before you keep repeating recycled bullshit. https://samouraiwallet.com/
17:36:32 <r4v3r23[m]> > values privacy
17:36:38 <r4v3r23[m]> > uses public ledger
17:36:39 <snex> oh you mean that thing that institutions have flagged so that they know to stop accepting btc from anyone who uses it?
17:36:49 <cheekyleeks> lolol.
17:36:53 <r4v3r23[m]> 😂😂
17:36:54 <snex> you are basically using monero with extra steps. you know that right?
17:36:56 <cheekyleeks> ur retarded.
17:37:06 <r4v3r23[m]> snex: bingo
17:37:08 <cheekyleeks> you are basically retarded. you know that, right?
17:37:13 <snex> nope
17:38:00 <cryptogrampy[m]> it's also not fungible
17:38:03 <snex> "bitcoin is fine because if i install all this extra shit and make super sure to use it all right, i can have privacy"
17:38:12 <cryptogrampy[m]> i don't accept mixed coins at my taco stand
17:38:23 <cheekyleeks> that's you, not the merchants i fuck with, boomer.
17:38:35 <snex> well the merchants you fuck with will be under arrest eventually
17:38:40 <ceoofdogenero[m]> snex: You can have history of using privacy tool on permanent public database lol
17:38:45 <cheekyleeks> snex: join the ignore list.
17:39:10 <r4v3r23[m]> ceoofdogenero[m]: lol
17:39:21 <snex> lol. somebody mad that governments know exactly where chokepoints are and will exploit them
17:39:31 <r4v3r23[m]> this guys an all star mental gymnist
17:40:16 <sethforprivacy> New blog post for the hard-fork, please share widely: https://www.getmonero.org/2022/04/20/network-upgrade-july-2022.html
17:40:33 <snex> honestly he probably put 100% of his nw into btc at 70k and he cant admit it was a bad idea
17:40:42 <cheekyleeks> https://www.getmonero.org/2022/04/20/network-upgrade-july-2022.html
17:44:48 <ceoofdogenero[m]> snex: Impossible btc topped at 69k
17:45:24 <snex> $69,420?
17:54:00 * ceoofdogenero[m] uploaded an image: (385KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/gWghbxAlsebLcukrDbtEZcyM/ima_af97c04.png >
17:55:13 <cryptogrampy[m]> Monero standoge: it's over.  i've already moved my funds to cumrocket (ticker $CUMMIES)
17:55:42 <ceoofdogenero[m]> How is your investment?
17:55:47 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Moon or doom?
17:56:07 <cryptogrampy[m]> i don't know.  my grandson manages my money
17:56:31 <ceoofdogenero[m]> 1 cummies = 1 cummies
17:56:57 <mj-xmr[m]> With decreasing supply across the years.
17:57:05 <cryptogrampy[m]> ceoofdogenero[m]: exactly my thoughts.  going to be swimming in cummies very soon
17:57:50 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Ngd
17:58:08 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Number go down
17:58:18 <cryptogrampy[m]> heading down to the cafeteria for some snacks.  have a great afternoon, all.  
18:40:21 <han-shan[m]> Christ
18:40:21 <han-shan[m]> all I said was the developer base and hash rate is smaller than Bitcoin
18:40:21 <han-shan[m]> and y'all had to circumnavigate total space
19:14:55 <nioc> Wut, we're not bigger than bitscorn?
21:27:29 <msvb-lab> Good article sethforprivacy, it is small and full of interesting facts.
21:27:59 <sethforprivacy> Thanks! Wanted to get something out ASAP.
23:54:28 <brnls[m]> <sethforprivacy> "New blog post for the hard-fork,..." <- This notes the transaction size decreases of 5-7% due to BP+. I had thought that with the ring size bump the net change was going to be slightly larger transactions. Are they actually smaller overall despite going from 11 -> 16?
23:56:21 <sethforprivacy> Not smaller overall, no
23:56:33 <sethforprivacy> But smaller than they would be without BP+ by that amount on average
23:56:52 <sethforprivacy> A bit confusing Im realizing now
23:57:22 <brnls[m]> Got it, yeah that makes sense. A slight rewording might be helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets interpreted that way
23:57:38 <sethforprivacy> Good call, will think of a way to reword and PR tomorrow.
23:57:52 <sethforprivacy> Thanks 🙂
23:58:12 <brnls[m]> np, thanks for putting together the post!