00:08:17 <Rucknium[m]> "Fluorine Flamingo" was robbed :P
00:45:37 * cryptogrampy[m] uploaded an image: (87KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/RiRTfBoOjRghdTwjvomDIYDF/a600101f-3c6e-4b4c-a908-e44ab60818fe.jpg >
00:45:44 <cryptogrampy[m]> https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0731
00:54:23 <z7yhp6ynyz[m]> Is anyone familiar with swapuz which is on kycnot me?
00:57:13 <z7yhp6ynyz[m]> I can’t seem to get in contact with their support and I’m wondering if they’re ignoring me. If anyone can check I would really appreciate it.
01:04:33 <z7yhp6ynyz[m]> It says 24/7 support, but I can’t get a response in their live chat
02:12:49 <cryptogrampy[m]> https://ciphertrace.com/current-trends-ransomware-monero/
02:13:17 <cryptogrampy[m]> Not sure if this pdf is old or new but I see copyright 2022: https://4345106.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/4345106/Content/Current%20Trends%20in%20Monero%20Usage%20and%20Ransomware_FINAL.pdf
02:14:55 <cryptogrampy[m]> https://twitter.com/ciphertrace/status/1516815579398774786?s=20
02:16:03 <plowsof[m]> >Pay in BTC; avoid using anonymity-enhancing technology or privacy coins to pay ransoms. 
02:16:03 <plowsof[m]> 😁
02:18:51 <orly_owl> i want seinfeld music to play when i read most tweets about bitcoin
02:45:24 <sethforprivacy> <cryptogrampy[m]> "https://ciphertrace.com/current..." <- Thanks for sharing, lots of good tidbits
02:45:43 <sethforprivacy> Tweeted out a thread about it, great litmus test that Monero continues to work, see broader adoption, and is untraced still.
02:46:20 <sethforprivacy> Important that Ciphertrace continues to push people to pay in Bitcoin and that they specifically mention having lists of XMR addresses gathered through social engineering but no information past that and no tracing of Monero mentioned.
02:46:24 <sethforprivacy> Lots of Bitcoin tracing, of course.
02:59:49 <nioc> maybe I should read and find out why
02:59:51 <nioc> lol
03:12:36 <orly_owl> nah
03:34:49 <xmr-ack[m]> “ZCash (ZEC) is the second largest privacy coin (or anonymity enhanced cryptocurrency: AEC) in market cap, behind XMR, but CipherTrace researchers haven’t yet seen any ransomware actors demand payment in ZEC.”
03:35:07 <xmr-ack[m]> Literally no one uses zcash, not even criminals
03:35:45 <xmr-ack[m]> * even criminals 😆
03:35:58 <orly_owl> what about odd criminals
04:01:30 <monerobull[m]> <orly_owl> "what about odd criminals" <- One tried (og alphabay)
04:01:56 <orly_owl> hmm i did read about that...
04:02:12 <monerobull[m]> 7 days after starting to accept ZCash, the sites founder hang from the ceiling of his prison cell
04:28:51 <orly_owl> um wtf
05:22:57 <bridgerton[m]> <𝙲𝙴𝚁𝚄𝙻𝙴𝙾𝚄𝚂> he shot himself fromnthe back of the head
05:33:36 <orly_owl> he had long arms
06:38:10 <mj-xmr[m]> <monerobull[m]> "7 days after starting to..." <- That's how all of my last 10 previous lives ended. Don't you do it too?
06:46:44 <orly_owl> mj-xmr[m] the dead cat
08:39:08 <Inge> Anyone have a link to a video of Sarang on Monerotopia?
08:47:10 <cheekyleeks> Inge!
08:47:41 <cheekyleeks> Inge: https://monerodl.com/monerotopia/14-Sarang-Noether/
09:31:14 <johnfoss68[m]> https://www.themoneromoon.com/p/the-monero-moon-issue-39
09:31:48 <johnfoss68[m]> Cheers to everyone who supported my CCS, I really appreciate it 👍
09:58:32 <Inge> cheekyleeks: Thank you very much :)
09:59:12 <cheekyleeks> Inge: always welcome xo.
12:12:13 * ceoofdogenero[m] uploaded an image: (377KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/wOrIhdAumnusYLIcsQkdhiVh/ima_b451c30.png >
12:12:25 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Wondering if this coin will recover
12:15:20 <orly_owl> ded
13:45:23 <ceoofdogenero[m]> <orly_owl> "ded" <- Bro, but it is nft
13:45:24 <ceoofdogenero[m]> It is the future
14:00:25 <orly_owl> DA FEWCHA
14:12:21 <sethforprivacy> Had enough of DERO shitspam on Twitter, wrote up a thread -- feel free to use it to debunk their idiotic and grandiose claims: https://twitter.com/sethforprivacy/status/1517141762011140096
14:43:14 <sethforprivacy> s/DERO/DEROspam/, s/shitspam//
14:43:18 <sethforprivacy> s/shitspam/spam/
15:26:31 <sech1> They also claim to have solved solo/pool mining problem. Spoiler: they didn't
15:27:03 <sethforprivacy> But sech1, they use Sigma blocks! 51% attacks and pooled mining are defeated!
15:27:19 <sethforprivacy> Small blocks more frequently means no pool mining necessary, ezpz, no tradeoffs
15:27:26 <sech1> 1 second block time doesn't really work in real life. They have mountains of complaints from miners that blocks they mined didn't result in payouts
15:27:33 <sech1> orphan rate is more than 50%
15:28:01 <sech1> also, their blockchain is storead as a bunch of files on disc (not database at all)
15:28:03 <sethforprivacy> sech1: Holy shit lololol
15:28:09 <sethforprivacy> sech1: wut
15:28:10 <sech1> currently more than 3 million files
15:28:15 <sech1> after a couple of months
15:28:15 <sethforprivacy> I see you've dug even more deeply than me 😄
15:28:18 <sethforprivacy> sech1: hahahahaha
15:28:25 <sech1> because I implemented their mining algo in XMRig
15:28:29 <sech1> and had to sync the blockchain
15:28:48 <sethforprivacy> Ahhh
15:28:52 <sech1> now they recommend to create a virtual drive and keep the blockchain there
15:28:59 <sech1> ghetto database
15:29:26 <sech1> LMDB is not used for the political reasons
15:30:25 <sech1> Anyone who claims "51% attack solved" just shift the attack surface somewhere else
15:30:40 <sech1> most often 51% attack solution means blockchain split is possible
15:31:21 <sech1> when you mine your own blockchain for a carefully calculated amount of blocks and release your version to half of the network
15:31:23 <sethforprivacy> Yeah, no kidding. Their entire marketing is chock-full of grandiose claims without tradeoffs
15:31:30 <sech1> boom - you split the blockchan in two
15:31:38 <sethforprivacy> The TLS over UDP thing gave me a good chuckle
15:31:42 <sech1> half of the nodes on old chain, other nodes on the new chain
15:31:56 <sech1> their mining protocol uses TCP
15:32:00 <sech1> with TLS of course
15:32:02 <sech1> WebSocket
15:32:05 <sech1> but not UDP
15:32:42 <sethforprivacy> Yeah their entire protocol (p2p and rpc) seem to both use TCP from what I can tell of their awfully commented code
15:32:55 <sethforprivacy> No mentions of DTLS or any other method of doing UDP-like TLS
15:34:46 <sech1> Dero has 1 developer (aka Captain) who's good at using Go and its libraries, but not good enough for low-level stuff
15:34:59 <sech1> hence file-system "database"
15:38:29 <sethforprivacy> Yikes it's even worse than I realized
15:38:39 <sethforprivacy> Hopefully tweet thread will save some people from being misled and scammed
15:38:47 <sethforprivacy> 2mil pre-mine plus lots of lies = PnD
15:39:04 <sethforprivacy> *plus incompetent implementations and architectural decisions
15:39:46 <bridgerton[m]> <ian.niculescu> had a tiny bit of Dero sitting on TradeOgre, sold it so you saved me some money at least
15:40:46 <sech1> on the plus side, XMRig's implementation of their algo was 5x better that the reference, and network hashrate was very low at the time, so I mined ~0.3 XMR worth of Dero while "testing" :D
15:41:00 <sech1> in about a day
15:44:40 <msvb-lab> sech1: Why would LMDB have a political reason for (not) being used, is this something interesting?
15:45:17 <sech1> there was a brawl between Dero and Monero devs about licensing
15:45:35 <sech1> they basically rewrote a lot of Monero's code in Go without mentioning Monero in copyrights
15:45:52 <sech1> rewrote = almost 1-to-1 rewrite in Go
15:46:17 <sech1> whether or not it's illegal without mentioning the original authors of the code, I don't know
15:49:03 <bridgerton[m]> <ian.niculescu> I got banned from the Dero Discord for sharing Seth's twitter thread after they deleted it and censored me
15:49:37 <sech1> and I think there was some personal beef betwen hyc and Dero team, this is why
15:49:41 <sech1> I don't know the details
15:57:01 <XMR2020> sech1: and I think there was some personal <- aka the lone dev copying monero's code without attribution... can't imagine why there is beef...
15:58:19 <bridgerton[m]> <ian.niculescu> please tell all your friends Dero is a scam
15:59:28 <sech1> Then I'll need to explain what Dero even is :D
16:37:42 <sethforprivacy> Heh brought all the DERO shills out of the woodwork, fun times
16:45:10 <sethforprivacy> Original Zether paper here: https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/191.pdf
16:48:16 <sethforprivacy> https://deroscam.tumblr.com/ lol the plagiarism is insanity.
17:09:23 <xmr-ack[m]> <sethforprivacy> "https://deroscam.tumblr.com/ lol..." <- Hey, well at least we got a golang port of the code base out of it...
17:09:39 <xmr-ack[m]> * of it... 😂
17:10:04 <sethforprivacy> I'll take "code bases I wouldn't touch with a thousand foot pole" for 2 million DERO, please
18:19:02 <sethforprivacy> Just want to encourage you all that their is *massive* momentum behind Monero going on behind the scenes, often unnoticed.
18:19:02 <sethforprivacy> The amount of prominent Bitcoiners already using Monero, merchants and projects integrating with Monero, and people wanting to learn how to use Monero is going through the roof lately.
18:19:32 <sethforprivacy> This is much larger than just the cryptocurrency scene, and there is great and growing momentum in many other freedom-loving communities.
18:33:58 * ceoofdogenero[m] uploaded an image: (956KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FdilpuVwVbAjRqGVsSYMabmY/ima_b016e12.png >
18:34:26 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Look like p2pool proportion shrink from 5.3% at 9 April to 5
18:35:53 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Btw what is the downside of p2pool? Why people don’t mitigate to it entirely? When fee is 0%?
18:50:18 <nioc> you need to run monerod
18:50:39 <nioc> also it's not really 0 fee
18:51:11 <snex> how is it not 0 fee
18:51:31 <nioc> you have many small outputs which you need to combine
18:51:45 <nioc> which costs.............network fees
18:52:30 <snex> but who is collecting these supposed fees? whatever the pool earns is distributed to the members according to hashrate. theres nowhere for any "extra" to go
18:53:03 <nioc> it is included in the block reward 
18:53:50 <nioc> how much it costs depends on your HR vs the HR of the p2pool instance you are on
18:54:18 <nioc> it can be up to ~0.8%
18:54:34 <snex> still not understanding where that 0.8% goes
18:54:42 <nioc> tx fees
18:54:47 <nioc> where do they go
18:54:49 <snex> ok.. to who?
18:55:07 <nioc> it is included in the block reward 
18:55:24 <nioc> loke any tx
18:55:29 <nioc> like*
18:55:31 <snex> say a block reward is 1 xmr and your p2pool mines it. there are 10 members and assume they all have equal HR. everyone in the pool gets 0.1 xmr. theres no fee
18:55:55 <snex> if youre gonna say everyone gets 0.09 xmr, then where does that extra 0.1 go?
18:57:06 <nioc> are you saying that you get all your fees back?
18:59:57 <snex> ?
19:00:30 <snex> the miners arent paying fees. the sender of the xmr is paying the fee *to the miners*
19:00:48 <snex> in a normal pool, the owner of the pool collects a fee from his/her members
19:00:54 <snex> in p2pool, there is no owner
19:01:31 <nioc> when the miners have to consolidate all there 0.00003 xmr inputs in order to use them then yes, they pay tx fees
19:02:25 <nioc> the more inputs you have the bigger the tx and therefore the bogger the tx fee
19:02:32 <nioc> *bigger
19:02:59 <snex> ok i see what you are saying - we pay fees to other miners in order to split up the rewards. but sometimes those miners are also us so theres a slight rebate. and if the whole world uses p2pool then it becomes a wash
19:03:57 <nioc> yes you would get something back, I haven't actually looked at that part closely 
19:04:07 <nioc> to see how it would work out
19:04:54 <nioc> why more people don't use p2pool?  people are lazy
19:05:12 <snex> it was surprisingly easy to set up
19:05:14 <nioc> new GUI release will make it much easier 
19:05:57 <nioc> hey I just want to click a button
19:06:00 <nioc> lol
19:07:08 <nioc> <sethforprivacy> @sethforprivacy:matrix.optoutpod.com 
19:07:08 <nioc> Just want to encourage you all that their is *massive* momentum behind Monero going on behind the scenes, often unnoticed.
19:07:08 <nioc> The amount of prominent Bitcoiners already using Monero, merchants and projects integrating with Monero, and people wanting to learn how to use Monero is going through the roof lately.
19:07:08 <nioc> This is much larger than just the cryptocurrency scene, and there is great and growing momentum in many other freedom-loving communities.
19:07:29 <nioc> ^^^ just slowly building for 8 years  :)
19:07:42 <sethforprivacy> Indeed.
19:07:55 <nioc> and 3 days  :D
19:08:49 <ceoofdogenero[m]> What if regulator ban us more to stop momentum?
19:09:12 <ceoofdogenero[m]> * us more aggressively to stop
19:09:21 <snex> "what if they ban math"
19:09:27 <snex> i wish them luck
19:19:34 <ceoofdogenero[m]> They may force all cex to delist xmr
19:20:42 <snex> when they untied the $ from gold (price was $35/oz at the time), experts predicted that the gold price would fall to $10/oz or less
19:20:44 <revuoxmr> Revuo Monero. Issue 117: April 14-21, 2022. http://revuo-xmr.com/issue-117.html
19:24:02 <snex> in case you havent looked lately, we are pushing $2000/oz
19:24:32 <snex> point being, untying crypto from fiat only helps crypto
19:24:45 <snex> (assuming that crypto actually serves a purpose)
19:27:49 <merope> snex: That's a non-sequitur
19:28:48 <snex> not really. CEX (or even DEX really) are harming crypto in the long run
19:29:16 <snex> all it does is encourage memebros to pump shitcoins. thats not what crypto is for
19:29:38 <ceoofdogenero[m]> snex: Agree
19:29:47 <ceoofdogenero[m]> They lie about supply
19:29:50 <merope> That's the "free market" for ta
19:29:58 <merope> s/ta/ya/
19:30:08 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Make fake usd coin
19:30:31 <snex> new markets are always full of scams
19:30:38 <merope> snex: [Citation needed]
19:30:52 <snex> you need a citation that new markets are always full of scams?
19:31:27 <snex> when radiation was discovered, tons of scams sprung up overnight about how you should eat radioactive materials for your health
19:31:28 <merope> Look again at which message I'm replying to
19:31:36 <snex> im on irc, i cant see any threads
19:32:12 <merope> Oh I see
19:32:51 <merope> I was replying to "CEX and DEX are harming crypto in the long run"
19:32:55 <ceoofdogenero[m]> snex: For cancer
19:33:34 <Inge> sethforprivacy: even Ukraine accepts Monero 
19:33:57 <snex> exchanges retain the supremacy of fiat currency. the point of crypto is to destroy fiat
19:34:07 <merope> Point being, that cryptocurrencies' (the non-scam ones, anyway) original goal is to become actual money. And like all money, people need a place where they can exchange one form of money into another
19:34:25 <snex> fiat isnt money. fiat is fraud
19:34:54 <merope> Do you see how that mentality gets you nowhere?
19:35:16 <merope> How do you plan on "destroying fiat", if nobody can access your system that intends to replace fiat?
19:35:36 <snex> the vast majority of people who pay fiat for crypto are just hoping to get a larger amount of fiat back in the future. they dont want to USE crypto. they dont even understand the use-cases for it
19:35:50 <merope> Do you expect every single person on the planet to figure out how to mine and earn their new fiat replacement money one piconero at a time?
19:35:53 <snex> why cant they access it? do jobs for crypto. sell goods for crypto
19:35:58 <ceoofdogenero[m]> merope: They can mine xmr without exchange 
19:36:12 <merope> Because I can tell you right now that that won't work at scale
19:36:31 <snex> if it wont work at scale, you should avoid crypto because its non-workable
19:36:57 <snex> and tbh im skeptical of it scaling, which is why im not all in
19:37:19 <snex> but we still have to try
19:37:32 <merope> Who's gonna pay people with crypto for jobs, if only a small niche of people has crypto?
19:37:58 <mj-xmr[m]> <ceoofdogenero[m]> "They may force all cex to delist..." <- Then everybody can still withdraw Bitcoin and use atomic swaps to go to XMR
19:37:58 <snex> i mean the way youre arguing, gold cant be money. yet gold was money for 5000 years
19:38:32 <snex> gold wasnt money because government said so. gold was money because of its properties which government co-opted
19:38:42 <merope> You need an exchange. Centralized, decentralized, whatever flavour you want. But you need a market where people can transition easily into the new system. Otherwise you're doomed to fail from the start
19:39:17 <snex> ok but that exchange should be based on goods and services, not fiat
19:39:27 <merope> There's nothing in the chemical or physical properties of gold that says "intrinsically good for money"
19:39:35 <snex> there is though
19:39:58 <snex> its not an accident that we gravitated to gold over aluminum
19:40:34 <merope> If you're gonna say scarcity, that's neither a physical nor a chemical property. It's an economical one
19:41:04 <snex> there are many other relevant properties that all have to be within a narrow range of values
19:41:08 <merope> Gold is chemically stable, sure. That's good when your money doesn't rust away
19:41:47 <snex> gold is super dense, which means you can store lots of value in a small space. almost no other metals have a similar density so gold is very hard to fake
19:42:42 <snex> gold is fungible, unlike diamonds, tobacco, beaver pelts, etc
19:42:45 <merope> Lead is also super dense. Is lead super valuable? No. Its value is not even close to the proportional density to gold
19:43:03 <snex> bruh i specifically said all the properties have to be there
19:43:19 <snex> you cant come back with "but this other thing has exactly 1 relevant property"
19:43:54 <merope> You've only mentioned density as the reason why gold can't be faked
19:44:09 <snex> no i didnt? i said almost nothing else has the same density
19:44:42 <merope> Literally Tungsten
19:44:45 <snex> only tungsten is near gold, and tungsten is also pretty damn expensive, very hard to work, and very different than gold in easy to determine ways
19:44:55 <merope> Which has, indeed, used to fake gold
19:45:03 <merope> *been used
19:45:10 <snex> yeah if the buyer is a clueless idit
19:45:12 <snex> idiot*
19:45:25 <merope> Irrelevant 
19:45:31 <snex> no it isnt lol
19:46:16 <snex> to make tungsten into a realistic looking gold bar you are spending like 75%-80% of the value of the real thing. and a simple electric current test will foil you
19:46:34 <merope> Do you always carry a testing kit to identify the purity of the gold you receive? Do you think gold users in the past did?
19:46:57 <snex> if im buying a large amount of gold, yes. and people in the past couldnt work tungsten *at all*
19:47:12 <snex> tungsten is a pretty new discovery
19:47:56 <snex> extreme melting point, no malleability whatsoever
19:48:08 <snex> literally hit your gold bar with a hammer
19:51:31 <snex> if we discover intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy, i will bet you 1 xmr that their civilization used gold as money to the same extent ours did
19:51:48 <merope> You may want to avoid that, if you care about reselling/reusing that bar later without having to recast it first
19:51:48 <merope> Lmao
19:52:34 <snex> why? deforming a gold bar doesnt change its value
19:52:49 <merope> One of the most meaningless bets ever
19:53:47 <snex> when you buy a gold bar, you pay spot + premium, where the premium is based on the non-fungible form of the gold. smash or melt that bar, all you lose is the premium
19:54:06 <merope> Strictly speaking, no. But a recipient will look at it and think: "Hmmm, there's something funky with your gold bar... you're trying to screw me over"
19:54:38 <snex> or maybe you bought it because youre a jeweler and it doesnt matter how deformed it is. just that its real
19:55:02 <snex> youre still in this mental mode of "buy stuff for fiat so i can sell it later for more fiat"
19:55:17 <snex> thats not why we want gold or crypto
19:56:12 <merope> A jeweler looking for raw metal is a very narrow specific scenario which cannot be generalized the way you're trying do to
19:56:29 <merope> And I'm not in the speculative mindset
19:56:41 <merope> You can have a market for buying and selling without having to speculate about it
19:57:19 <merope> And also: if crypto is money, and money can be used for speculation, then there's nothing stopping people from speculating with it
19:57:20 <ceoofdogenero[m]> <snex> "if we discover intelligent..." <- If xmr is used til that day, 1xmr might be worth a mansion
19:57:50 <snex> well then im willing to bet a mansion on the fact that aliens also used gold as money
19:57:54 <merope> So this whole attitude of "we're too good for speculators" is pointless
19:58:20 <snex> to me, its just as obvious as "aliens discovered the number pi"
19:58:32 <mj-xmr[m]> Speculators provide liquidity.
19:59:24 <ceoofdogenero[m]> Universe is big, maybe some area matter aren’t distributed seamlessly
20:00:16 <snex> for a rocky planet to form and  develop life, youd need a supernova that creates roughly the same ratio of gold that our sun did
20:00:23 <ceoofdogenero[m]> * Universe is big, maybe some area matter proportion aren’t distributed equally
20:00:28 <snex> and most of that gold will sink to the planet core
20:04:00 <snex> gold is even visually distinct from its surroundings, which would lead any intelligent life to at least inspect it
20:08:21 <snex> and unlike aluminum or similar, it mostly exists in elemental form rather than hard to break molecules
20:09:18 <snex> literally the only downside is that you cant teleport it at the speed of light the way you can with crypto
20:09:30 <nioc> gold is shiny 
20:09:33 <nioc> I like to stare at it when the sun shines in it
20:09:41 <nioc> on
20:10:03 <nioc> damn, both my o an i keys are completely worn off
20:10:45 <Inge> But Why??
20:10:55 <ceoofdogenero[m]> snex: Btw, for crypto to work as medium of exchange for type 3 civilizations.(galaxy)
20:10:55 <ceoofdogenero[m]> It would have to have fk long blocktime?
20:11:48 <snex> im not sure such civs can exist. youd need to be able to create targeted wormholes and in that case, light speed is good enough
20:12:45 <snex> if we could make solid state hard drives where 1 atom = 1 bit, how much data can you store on a desktop?
20:12:51 <nioc> Inge: old cheap keyboard 
20:13:07 <nioc> much shitposting
20:13:41 <nioc> I just assume you were talking to me  :D
20:13:51 <Inge> I was
20:17:28 <nioc> a nad n are also gone
20:17:54 <nioc> t is virtually gone, l is in bad shape
20:17:59 <snex> time to upgrade. oh shit the new keyboard doesnt match the aesthetic gotta buy all new everything else too
20:18:21 <nioc> aesthetic?  lol