00:30:05 <ArticMine[m]> Seth For Privacy: A key point, in my view, with ring signatures in Monero is confidential transactions. The very few successes of the block chain surveillance companies in Bitcoin is from the reassembly of a large transaction after mixing. Also in my view these companies are really^N full of BS saying they can trace Monero transactions. For Bitcoin N=1 For Monero N is several orders of magnitude larger
00:33:09 <ArticMine[m]> The absence of privacy doesn't equal effective surveillance.
01:14:48 <chesterfield[m]> <selsta> "he worked on view tags and..." <- Why is he making commits when he could be in here having truly productive week-long arguments???
01:14:57 <chesterfield[m]> Doesn’t make sense to me
11:28:44 <ossaix[m]> Another question on using a VPS for a node / onion node. Can the VPS provider see what you're doing? Can they monitor traffic? Wondering whether I should keep pursuing local raspberry pi one (that will be vulnerable because I'm a simpleton in terms of setting it up) or VPS one that has better uptime and can get a trusted dev to implement for me
11:47:46 <BTCisMyFavNFT> assume a VPS provider can see everything
12:13:55 <merope> > local raspberry pi one (that will be vulnerable because I'm a simpleton in terms of setting it up)
12:13:56 <merope> As long as you don't expose the unrestricted rpc port to the internet (18081 by default), it's fine. If you want to use it as a remote node when you're away from home, you can use the restricted rpc options https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monerod-reference/#node-rpc-api
16:30:19 <Psynthax> hi, here I am trading monero again.... like and subscribe :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDNFk1VpBaQ
16:45:27 <merope> Psynthax -> https://matrix.to/#/!TlVgUtVNZychNpMzKW:matrix.org?via=matrix.org&via=monero.social&via=halogen.city
18:04:17 <inlight> hi monero boys
18:31:46 <sgp_[m]> 👀 https://twitter.com/cakewallet/status/1532067017309638656
18:38:25 <inlight> cakewallet is idiot, can't use it on non-phone devices
18:38:57 <sgp_[m]> haha
18:40:50 <inlight> if cakewallet is based in US or EU, why it doesnt take KYC for allowing u to buy xmr
18:41:09 <inlight> it goes through some service based in different country where kYC isn't mandatory ?
18:50:21 <sgp_[m]> inlight: trades are through ChangeNOW or Sideshift
18:50:55 <inlight> im talking about buying monero through card
18:51:06 <inlight> US/EU law require KYC
18:51:11 <sgp_[m]> inlight: that's currently not possible in the app
18:52:04 <sethforprivacy> Monero now #2 on CoinCards and rapidly approaching Bitcoin's usage: https://twitter.com/CoinCards/status/1532051778757201920?s=20&t=x59oIF2i63NqMoyGzc9kwQ
18:53:22 <inlight> sad, coincards is only for canada
18:53:34 <sgp_[m]> inlight: Canada + US
18:53:36 <inlight> just one country in 260 countrie on earth
18:55:17 <inlight> many times i had monero, and i wanted to buy pizza, or order some food (they dont have giftcards), i wish there would have been a xmr -> mastercard/visa service, so i could have paid by, works globally
18:55:42 <inlight> most gcs are out of stock
18:57:34 <sethforprivacy> You sure are a nice cup of depresso today, aren't you inlight.
18:57:42 <sethforprivacy> Fun guy
18:57:50 <inlight> Lol
18:57:58 <inlight> i have an idea to bypass KYC to purchase monero
18:58:37 <inlight> so you create an app, like a game (where you can buy coins, items and can trade with other player of the game ).
18:59:42 <inlight> also, there would be withdraw/ refund option in app, so you could get money back for your coins/ items.
19:00:19 <inlight> and then you seperately create a service on internet, where user can swap monero for game coins
19:00:33 <inlight> :)
19:03:47 <inlight> so basically you purchase decoy digital items (which doesn't require kyc) then swap those from real-value items digitally.
19:06:08 <merope> That would not work anyway: the real-world company/entity running such a service would be legally held liable for all the money they sent out. Therefore, the only way they could protect themselves from being abused as middlemen for crime would be through kyc
19:07:36 <inlight> the real-world entity will be innocent running a mere game/ platform, 
19:08:11 <inlight> they will not advertise their black-service alongside, but will be masked a seperate entity
19:10:10 <merope> Yeah, good luck telling that to a judge
19:13:20 <inlight> merope: why will the real-world company be held liable, for what ?
19:15:34 <inlight> eg. in runescape game, you can mine and trade, purchase gold coins, there is actual market for that, so if you have gold, you can go to thirdpart website and sell gold for paypal, bitcoin, alipay, etc
19:21:04 <inlight> like in roblox, you can sell robux over 100K to get cash back
19:21:25 <inlight> over 10K i guess
19:21:39 <inlight> from the official game company to bank account
19:42:12 <inlight> also, if you go to amazon, only sellers have to do KYC, while there is no KYC for buyers
19:42:44 <inlight> unless government makes kYC mandatory for both seller/buyer on everykind of online transaction, there are ways.
19:44:26 <inlight> need to thouroughly study, also, even then the service could go hybird online-offline (with like sales agent, from whom you could buy a token/coupoun offline) and then use online.
19:46:40 <inlight> p2p
19:48:21 <inlight> same could go for selling those tokens to get $$, indirectly from those third-party sellers linked to company, you give them the token and they give money, and they repeat same with the company, and company has KYC of sellers, so no problem.
19:48:43 <inlight> merope: 
19:49:06 <inlight> actually what im descibing on purchasing part using token is already there, check https://www.paysafecard.com/
19:49:35 <inlight> not available world-wide, but should work, and we can create our specific for monero
19:50:13 <inlight> sethforprivacy: what do you think ?
19:52:23 <plowsof[m]> 🫵👴👉️🚪
19:56:22 <inlight> also there is mandatory KYC if you trade with large P2P trader (because of risk is getting dirty money), if you use online payments, (otherwise fine with CASH for low amount).
20:01:44 <inlight> i think, you have problem with KYC at centralised place, but maybe not with p2p kyc with individual traders,  if they are rrequired by law to do KYC, you can't do anything else. 
20:02:11 <inlight> then create a parallel economy
20:03:03 <inlight> but, 
20:04:52 <inlight> plowsof[m]: Purchasing a product (decoy product) doesn't require KYC so i think KYC can be evaded at the extent. 
20:05:03 <inlight> in a democratic country.
20:24:08 <inlight> i think, paysafecard like smth could be directly integrated in seller's payment page, since its world wide with minimal currency exchange (payment) fee, you could buy a card in us, and puy anonymously using that card in a no-KYC based exchange in iceland, and receive Monero  
20:25:01 <inlight> and join the Monero Circular Economy!
20:28:30 <bridgerton[m]> <monerobull> paysafe cards are a bit cringe
20:29:13 <bridgerton[m]> <ian.niculescu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2J_HD0_TCQ 3:55, "I don't mind monero"
20:29:51 <bridgerton[m]> <monerobull> i once wanted to buy something more expensive with them a few years ago and after buying the first 50€ card i had to wait around in the store for 10 minutes before i could get the next one
20:32:04 <inlight> just giving a reference of what could be done.
20:34:07 <inlight> so i think this solves no-kyc purchasing problem, 
20:35:21 <inlight> also of selling i think, you could just sell the monero, and someone will pay you to your bank account same way through card.
20:44:57 <inlight> i think the issue of KYC/AML is more with selling cryptocurrency than buying, because transparent chains like BTC can be tracked so they need KYC, while not in case of XMR, so there is no purpose here, 
20:53:26 <inlight> i think all this can be done with NFT-type things instead of some paysafecard
20:54:41 <inlight> you could say- you purchased/sold art, etc
20:56:14 <inlight> i think this is a way to justify p2p trade (you selling monero for bank money) - you could justify you sould art, music, video, etc ownership to someone. 
21:01:15 <inlight> OR OR OR, 
21:01:26 <inlight> just create a fucking MONERO CIRCULAR ECONOMY
21:01:56 <inlight> i have my own farm lands, so i can grow myself!
21:04:33 <louipc> that's great
21:04:56 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> i think the problem with kyc/aml and surveillance can be solved if necessary steps can be taken like fixing the broken internet from a transparent one to a more default private one where user r actually good anonymity and privacy
21:05:37 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> things like using briar
21:06:01 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> and making appilations run on tor/i2p or both
21:07:15 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> making trading appellation and even games and communication tools like VOIP run exclusively on onion or garlic or both networks 
21:08:09 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> just need more atomic DEX and darknet markets with good GUI
21:08:17 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> APP WISE
21:08:32 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> like onion share
21:08:57 <cluelessnoob[m]> hi all
21:08:59 <louipc> you need stuff that'll work reasonably on a disjointed mesh network
21:09:17 <cluelessnoob[m]> those who you're using pruned blockchain, could you please tell me how large it is right now in KB?
21:09:23 <cluelessnoob[m]> i.e. could you run `ls -l ~/.bitmonero/lmdb-pruned/data.mdb` please?
21:09:25 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> and Cwtch
21:10:24 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> need those for i2p and even others darknets services they need to be granny proof for them to work
21:10:35 <cluelessnoob[m]> the `monero-blockchain-prune` is so slow I'm thinking about dropping it and using either full node or remote one
21:11:11 <inlight> anti-economics
21:13:02 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> yea importance of mesh network is vital
21:13:20 <cluelessnoob[m]> Sounds like https://paywithmoon.com/
21:13:25 <inlight> tor, i2p is not meshnetwork, they are anonymous overlay network
21:13:35 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> over reliance on transparent/surveillance internet is not ideal or smart
21:13:52 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> inlight: everyone knows that
21:13:55 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> lol
21:13:57 <inlight> M0x1zxq7896lp2ze: to fix broken internet, you need decentralised internet, "power to the people" 
21:14:01 <inlight> which is Mesh-network
21:14:42 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> i was replying to above post lol
21:15:02 <inlight> so first run that, like CJDNS (deprecated now), use YGGDRASIL (in active development, 40K active nodes) - it is encrypted ipv6 overlay network as well as mesh network
21:15:18 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> inlight: yes we need decentralized internet that is very true 
21:15:48 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> but even reliance on short wave communication tech is not smart
21:16:03 <inlight> so you assign yourself an ipv6 address, and join the network through wifi, radio or through internet (over tcp) 
21:16:21 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> we need true encrypted long range communication radio tech
21:17:08 <inlight> thats mesh network, however you connect, 
21:17:14 <inlight> not talking about hardware
21:17:22 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> we need to make our military communication technology used by military and terrorist organization public
21:17:24 <inlight> then on top of it, you could run anonymization network 
21:17:49 <inlight> like tor, or any mixnet (i2p, nymtech) 
21:18:03 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> that the biggest problem
21:18:33 <inlight> we will use it, if you can build such hardware, and if it is cheaper so can be widely adopted :)
21:18:35 <inlight> hmu
21:18:52 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> compare to military and terrorist and despotic government tech the common public is a joke
21:19:09 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> * common public tech is a
21:19:11 <inlight> do you host any node/service ?
21:20:08 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> inlight: current mesh barely reach city wide between 2 nodes
21:21:07 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> we need tech with nodes reaching between at least 2 continents if not planetary scale
21:21:30 <plowsof[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/v2rk5e/you_can_now_buysell_monero_with_fiat_on_monerocom/ 🤯
21:21:42 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> we must think for the future
21:23:58 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> <inlight> "we will use it, if you can build..." <- yea we need hardware that r opensource along with software that r opensource with kill switches and good isolation and sandboxing
21:25:59 <inlight> Lol, you speak like you have no clue
21:26:02 <inlight> :)
21:27:55 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> lol
21:29:41 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> we have seen tech get more open source over the years and now we even have system that r more private and secure than normal Ubuntu based Linux distro like GrapheneOS and CalyxOS
21:30:54 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> but the problem remains with closed sourced hardware and mobile operators and closed sourced SIM tech
21:31:49 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> even with the hardware problem fixed we need to take down the ISP and mobile operators or replaced them
21:33:08 <M0x1zxq7896lp2ze> they r the biggest threat to privacy and security and they r mostly in favor of terrorist and despotic surveillance regime