08:25:31 * w[m] uploaded an image: (100KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/kunMxlzPlXUDdYmIcCKGlTnH/Imagepipe_158.jpg >
08:30:45 <w[m]> plowsof: see what you've done?! Jeez. You were supposed to be Ciccione's comfort zone. (Even though he used CCS instead of WAAS.. blasphemy)
08:30:46 <w[m]> ... how is this monero community leaders fault?! Jeez
08:32:40 * w[m] uploaded an image: (180KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/ThdrHWpZOjoHLEcxQWWGTCBC/Image_176.jpg >
08:40:15 <r4v3r23[m]> <w[m]> "Imagepipe_158.jpg" <- COMMUNITY NEEDS CENTRAL PLANNING, COMRADE
08:41:25 <TimeWalker[m]> I demand to speak with the Monero CEO
08:42:50 * r4v3r23[m] uploaded an image: (149KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/IaASNgaUisZoqhgaEqNdXYwa/image.png >
08:47:53 <w[m]> This isnt shitposting IMO. He called out community leaders for being silent... hes not even in here. SGP defended him big time, Seth donated a sizeable amount.
08:47:54 <w[m]> Does he means on Reddit and telegram 😅?
08:47:54 <w[m]> Fucking ridiculous. Guy blunders 151 xmr and blames the market 
08:48:08 <w[m]> Blames community leaders*****
08:48:14 <monerobull[m]> #ErCiccioneGambledCCSMoney
08:48:33 <w[m]> Top trending hashtag
08:49:50 <nioc> Since when has crypto prices not been gambling?
08:51:09 <w[m]> Since you get paid 151xmr over value and dont sell until its 50% down
08:51:31 <w[m]> Thats gambling
08:51:43 <w[m]> Hoping for a moonshot? They didnt sell a drop at 280
08:51:53 <monerobull[m]> nioc: He didn't sell the funds he got but gambled on the price. It's an awesome thing for him since either monero pumps and he pockets tens of thousands or monero dumps and they halt development until it undumps itself
08:52:27 <monerobull[m]> No way for him to lose
08:53:00 <spacekitty420[m]> so much crying over and over for some nothinburger, wtf LOL, cant yall just stop crying for a fucking minute and be like idfk, just pump the price or somethin and problem solved u know? 😹
08:53:27 <bridgerton[m]> <Encore> :pepe_weed:
08:53:34 <monerobull[m]> You know what might pump the price? Haveno release lmao
08:53:51 <spacekitty420[m]> like, yall go out, sucking some dirty dicks or somethin and pump that price
08:53:51 <spacekitty420[m]> fucking bitch asses, crying all day long but doing nothin LOL
08:53:56 <w[m]> You know what else might pump the price? Not selling the bottom
08:54:13 <w[m]> Guy sold at the bottom smh
08:54:30 <w[m]> Someone running an exchange doesnt seem to understand trading 
08:54:59 <rbrunner> So sad there is no way to downvote individual lines to -30 or even -40 karma, like it happened on reddit for their posts, to really show it to them, the holy anger of the community
08:55:16 <rbrunner> (lines written on IRC)
08:55:40 <spacekitty420[m]> monerobull[m]: yeah and for the whatever number of times it been said, haveno can still be released without the ui like fuck, its like gotta say that again and again all fucking day long cause yall fucking crying about shit that doesnt even affect the release
08:55:56 <w[m]> Yes it does affect the release
08:56:08 <monerobull[m]> Didn't he want to decide who gets to be an arbitrator? Better hope you never have a need for one, I'm sure they'll have their own code of conduct on who wins based on their wokeness score
08:56:20 <w[m]> He sold UNDER VALUE
08:56:21 <w[m]> Where does he recover That ?
08:56:53 <nioc> Have all CCS funds been paid out?
08:56:58 <monerobull[m]> No way did they actually sell? Haveno rugged us with CCS funds? Lmao
08:57:16 * spacekitty420[m] uploaded an image: (32KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/catgirl.cloud/CJanVSGqiZTYVEtFpNtxEqYR/image.png >
08:57:18 <spacekitty420[m]> it doesnt as been said all day yesterday, can we fucking move on already? 😹
08:57:21 <w[m]> No, only 302 xmr have been paid, 0 and 1 milestone
08:57:55 <w[m]> monerobull[m]: Yeaman, and they even took a 10% profit invoke sell and priced it as break even
08:58:00 <monerobull[m]> spacekitty420[m]: But we like ranting
08:58:20 <nioc> So why say he sold the bottom or gambled?
08:58:27 <rbrunner> yeah, spacekitty420[m], please don't act so reasonable, you only disturb :)
08:58:28 <nioc> Disingenuous 
08:58:29 <w[m]> He DID
08:58:41 <w[m]> he sold 20k worth, smartly.
08:58:47 <w[m]> At value
08:58:55 <monerobull[m]> nioc: He didn't do it with all funds but with 300 xmr
08:58:59 <w[m]> Then oncenit was above, he held. Once it dropped he sold
08:59:14 <spacekitty420[m]> rbrunner: okay irc boomer hipster
08:59:54 <nioc> When you get a CCS payout and need to pay people, what do you do?
09:00:09 <w[m]> The dates and amounts of invoices were posted by haveno themselves.
09:00:09 <w[m]> Selling on April 15, pricing for April 8
09:00:09 <w[m]> Not selling again til may 15 or so
09:00:12 <rbrunner> Listen to w[m] what to do?
09:00:57 <w[m]> nioc: Well, if you know 151 xmr @ 200$ is your budget, and the price is 240, and the devs only take usd, you dump the xmr and earmark the funds.
09:01:24 <w[m]> Not dump 20k worth then watch your shit bleed for months
09:01:29 <w[m]> Then blame the markey
09:01:33 <nioc> Sorry if I have been having too much fun to follow closely. 
09:06:19 <w[m]> When you make rookie ass mistakes, youre supposed to own up to it and learn from it. Not point fingers at everything except for your lack of accounting and accountability.
09:06:19 <w[m]> "We weren't paid all at once, we couldnt sell".
09:06:19 <w[m]> They definitely had 151 xmr that they could have sold for profit. They didnt. There's absolutely no reason to assume they would have sold if they were paid in full. 
09:11:59 * w[m] uploaded an image: (186KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/TmFKFFGEwwOMuImfoNzZsjvI/Image_177.jpg >
09:15:00 <dsc_> 20k for this drama is worth it, no?
09:15:41 <w[m]> Its like 150k dsc_: 
09:15:46 <dsc_> no exchange but a theatrical performance
09:16:23 <w[m]> They need to list wow if they want confetti instead of pitchforks 
09:17:03 <dsc_> there is some truth to that statement :P
09:17:19 <spacekitty420[m]> and here you fucking go again with that wow shill which you keep bringing up every single drama, you couldnt stop yourself 😹
09:17:51 <dsc_> yeah I also dont like people bringin up WOW in XMR related channels 
09:17:54 <dsc_> just fyi
09:18:04 <w[m]> dsc_: is a WOW G/dev
09:18:04 <w[m]> How could I not?
09:18:29 <w[m]> And wow is more than related. For example
09:18:39 <dsc_> it makes me feel uncomfortable
09:18:54 <dsc_> anyway
09:19:22 <w[m]> dsc_: plowsof and ooo123 were wondering what happened to 7760 in wownero
09:19:22 <w[m]> It was in prior release version, but nor current master or release. I believe wowario repo has it though
09:19:52 <w[m]> Monero pr 7760, ill grab the link to the wow merge
09:19:55 <dsc_> yeah I ignored the questions asked to me here, come to WOW channels to discuss WOW
09:20:05 <spacekitty420[m]> like told you on the previous drama u been spam shilling wow, penumbra is definitely okay to list it on release on their own platform so instead of crying all day everyday about haveno it could be more productive to instead contribute to that other platform instead of the one you keep hating on every single day for like forever now
09:20:08 <dsc_> im not gonna talk about that here
09:20:31 <dsc_> <3
09:21:01 <spacekitty420[m]> dsc_: there's a matrix channel? o.o
09:21:07 <dsc_> pls continue the haveno discussion :P
09:21:12 <dsc_> i was enjoying it
09:21:45 <spacekitty420[m]> dsc_: gieb wow matrix channel o.o
09:23:09 <w[m]> dsc_: In private?
09:23:30 * dsc_ slaps spacekitty420[m] and w[m] around a bit with a large trout
09:24:15 <spacekitty420[m]> <insert surprised pikachu face thingy>
09:24:34 <w[m]> <insert surprised Chris rock>
09:24:48 <w[m]> * < insert surprised Chris rock >
09:26:56 <w[m]> spacekitty420 @spacekitty420:matrix.org: https://github.com/haveno-dex/listing/issues/11
09:34:05 <spacekitty420[m]> <w[m]> "spacekitty420 @spacekitty420:..." <- well damn, it's almost been 2 months already, had a bit of catching up to do on that thread but yeah, still seems to leave it open to discussion for potentially be for release even tho overall sentiment might be more like for the 2nd or 3rd wave of listing
09:34:05 <spacekitty420[m]> like, issue not closed or anything so that's good
09:34:05 <spacekitty420[m]> am definitely like, it would be really nice to have it on release but if its not then that's no big deal either, a lil wait aint really that big of a deal, really...
09:35:01 <w[m]> Anyway, spacekitty, this isnt about shitting on haveno or kicking a guy when hes down.
09:35:02 <w[m]> Its about accountability or lackthereof, and worse, blaming everybody for your own blunder.
09:35:02 <w[m]> Imagine youre a dev and thought you had steady income, only to find out your employer held your wages in crypto and lost enough to have to lay you off
09:35:04 <w[m]> Its not so simple as "who cares, life goes on"
09:38:44 <spacekitty420[m]> havent checked yet if oxen was proposed as well, dont own any either but could be a great add too imo, hearing they building some sort of ecosystem as well with like session (which heard that name in a wide range of different community) and lokinet, which might be an other interesting tech, like bisq, haveno and penumbra routing traffic through tor and lokinet apparently being similar to tor with the onion routing or somethin
09:38:44 <spacekitty420[m]> somethin
09:38:44 <spacekitty420[m]> anyways, could be a decent add as well imo, just cause interesting tech type of thing
09:39:03 <w[m]> Interviewer - "Could haveno had made better financial decisions to avoid this?"
09:39:03 <w[m]> Haveno - "no. This isn't our fault at all. I blame the community. Bunch of trolls trying to destroy me. Period. Any other reason is just an attack on us"
09:39:24 <w[m]> Oxen was, yes
09:39:58 <spacekitty420[m]> may 14 the proposal indeed, sweet :)
09:42:00 <spacekitty420[m]> > <@w:monero.social> Interviewer - "Could haveno had made better financial decisions to avoid this?"
09:42:00 <spacekitty420[m]> > Haveno - "no. This isn't our fault at all. I blame the community. Bunch of trolls trying to destroy me. Period. Any other reason is just an attack on us"
09:42:00 <spacekitty420[m]> to be fair, community being full of cringe ass weirdos that just crying all day long about a bunch of bs LOL
09:42:58 <w[m]> I agree. But this isnt the case. Haveno squandered the funds. Haveno and haveno alone
09:44:56 <spacekitty420[m]> and the price can still go up again at any time and the temporary pause will just be that, some temporary pause that is no big deal either...
09:45:33 <w[m]> Kitty
09:45:33 <w[m]> They sold in the red
09:46:32 <w[m]> They cant recover lost money unless the price goes to high 200s
09:47:27 <w[m]> <w[m]> "Image_177.jpg" <- I dont like this bs accounting either
09:47:35 <dsc_> one thing I find interesting about the haveno frontend proposal is that it does *not* mention the technologies involved
09:47:47 <spacekitty420[m]> w[m]: which will most likely happen soon or later
09:48:40 <dsc_> it speaks in the all encompassing term "frontend"
09:49:13 <spacekitty420[m]> was the UI devs paid in usd or xmr tho?
09:51:01 <dsc_> "frontend" is rather ambiguous. It can be built using simple HTML/JS, using backend template rendering, using a SPA framework, etc.
09:51:19 <spacekitty420[m]> isnt it reactJS or somethin?
09:52:18 <dsc_> Indeed, a SPA framework. ReactJS. Incredibly complicated. I've seen many projects fail due to underestimating the complexities that come with SPA frameworks.
09:52:34 <dsc_> it shadows the DOM and keeping state is rocket science
09:52:45 <spacekitty420[m]> the whole design shematics and whatnot was also released, tryna find link again on that
09:52:47 <dsc_> plus you're dealing with some nodejs/npm bullshit
09:53:02 <dsc_> my point is: this is *important* information one should include in the proposal
09:53:26 <dsc_> because as a techie, I can look at it, see they're using ReactJS, and decide this is not worth backing
09:55:57 <dsc_> Going on a tangent here but back when I was young I was part of the half-life 2 modding community and we'd get often get people on our forums with big plans to create their own big MMORPG
09:56:17 <dsc_> they had no technical skill themselves but were able to write 4 pages full of ideas
09:56:31 <dsc_> we referred to those as "idea guys"
09:57:53 <dsc_> “I am not a visionary. I'm an engineer. I'm happy with the people who are wandering around looking at the stars but I am looking at the ground and I want to fix the pothole before I fall in.”
09:58:07 <dsc_> ok enough wisdoms from me
10:00:22 <spacekitty420[m]> <spacekitty420[m]> "the whole design shematics and..." <- oh, had to enable webgl in browser, thought link was ded 😹
10:00:22 <spacekitty420[m]> https://www.figma.com/file/ijVTy2RIF8j36LF5y2sRtt/Haveno-Product-Design?node-id=856%3A5172
10:01:53 <dsc_> 150k USD is still nothing if you want to outsource development for such complicated frontend
10:01:58 <dsc_> monero tanking is irrelevant
10:04:16 <spacekitty420[m]> eh, $150k that's definitely enough to pay for rent and noodles tho :3
10:05:47 <dsc_> he picked an expensive technology and outsourced its development 
10:06:23 <dsc_> (which is fine, but dont underestimate what happens when, for example, monero tanks)
10:06:28 <spacekitty420[m]> it's not like gotta also pay for some specialized hardware like if it was machine learning and had to get all dem tesla V100 or whatever the current best is
10:06:28 <spacekitty420[m]> grandma's toaster should be enough to do some dev or somethin am guessing
10:06:39 <dsc_> im also argueing that monero tanking is irrelevant as this was doomed anyway
10:07:49 <dsc_> i mean look at those figma designs, they're great
10:07:53 <dsc_> which is a bad thing :P
10:08:02 <dsc_> read: its a lot of work
10:09:00 <spacekitty420[m]> true
10:10:54 <dsc_> so as a non-techie, how are you going to establish the roadmap of a software product?
10:11:09 <dsc_> and thus determine how much funding you need?
10:12:32 <dsc_> (answer: you cant, you can only repeat what the devs tell you, and hey those devs have commercial incentives to give optimistic estimates)
10:14:28 <spacekitty420[m]> the fuck do i know LOL
10:14:29 <spacekitty420[m]> like, they had that UI dev which later on just ended up making he's own fork and currently working alone on it without funding but is still doing great so far
10:14:29 <spacekitty420[m]> opensource is fucking weird like, people working for free and whatnot just for ideology, not even for the noodles
10:14:29 <spacekitty420[m]> s/he's/his/
12:23:17 <spacekitty420[m]> alrighty, seems like i just got banned on /r/xmrtrader by XMR2020 just for sayin that no am not erciccione's or l0nelyc0w's alt account LOL
12:23:17 <spacekitty420[m]> so stoopid
12:46:13 <jwinterm> spacekitty420[m] is ciccione's alt confirmed
12:46:59 <spacekitty420[m]> :derp: 
12:53:13 <jwinterm> :P
16:30:42 <agatesAlecksGate> Wasn't Seth supposed to be on What Bitcoin Did?  Every time they release a new episode I'm expecting it lol
16:56:47 <ossaix[m]> Yes that will be a great one
17:04:14 <chesterfield[m]> <agatesAlecksGate> "Wasn't Seth supposed to be on..." <- he said it would be in early july
17:11:11 <agatesAlecksGate> <chesterfield[m]> "he said it would be in early..." <- oof what a lead time
17:11:28 <agatesAlecksGate> most of his other guests just smell their own farts
17:33:06 <r4v3r23[m]> <agatesAlecksGate> "most of his other guests just..." <- what makes this one any different?
17:34:42 <ofrnxmr[m]1> This one uses xmr 👀
17:35:29 <agatesAlecksGate> r4v3r23[m]: Are we talking about the same Seth?
17:36:53 <chesterfield[m]> r4v3r23: doesn't like influencers and thinks people should turn off podcasts/youtubers and learn privacy and everything on their own from scratch 
17:37:10 <chesterfield[m]> let me know if i summed that up correctly
17:40:35 <bridgerton[m]> <Encore> r4v3r23: this one smells an unknown amount of farts
17:41:37 <agatesAlecksGate> Huh by that logic I should stop mentoring people
17:42:34 <chesterfield[m]> Yes, that's correct.  Your services are not needed anymore.  This channel will be shutting down in 24 hours.
18:00:21 <chesterfield[m]> > deeply inhales fart
21:16:57 <jeffro256[m]> Speaking of CCS, I updated my proposal here : https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/319?diff_id=4419&start_sha=9acb90b5a562a75f48f1cc6885cdd2183271d710
21:17:14 <jeffro256[m]> Mainly reducing hours and pushing back the expiration date 
21:18:03 <jeffro256[m]> If anyone cares to look, or ask questions, I would greatly appreciate it