16:25:24 <sgp_[m]> Kayaba just announced Serai, an AMM DEX for Monero and other assets: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/vudljh/announcing_serai_a_new_dex_for_monero_bitcoin_and/
16:25:28 <sgp_[m]> We plan to include the ability to trade and add/remove liquidity within Cake
16:51:22 <plowsof> Wow, Awesome! and have a nice weekend everyone 🫵😁👍️
17:13:30 <rbrunner> Certainly an interesting and promising project. But:
17:13:31 <rbrunner> That will be one big mountain of work until it's really ready and arrives in the hands of people entrusting it with large sums because battle-tested
17:23:16 <kayabanerve[m]> I spent 2-3 months on the Monero lib and cryptography alone :(
17:23:27 <kayabanerve[m]> I still require the C code for BPs and hash to point :(
20:33:21 <sgp_> [Action Required] Defcon Supplies for Monero / Cryptocurrency Village https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/718
20:35:08 <tobtoht[m]> Feather Wallet 2.0.0 is out! https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/vuinb0/feather_wallet_200_released/
21:08:58 <som1[m]> Hello monero community, 
21:49:26 <som1[m]> i would like to pitch an idea, anyone would like to hear ?
21:56:58 <merope> Go ahead
21:59:31 <som1[m]> https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/
21:59:50 <som1[m]> i would say kick off i2p support and work on mesh-network integration;)
22:00:39 <merope> What did i2p do wrong to you?
22:01:00 <som1[m]> I2p is not secure, anonymous network, if you know,  even tor is better than that.
22:01:13 <som1[m]> perhaps main problem with i2p is 'it lacks academic criticism' 
22:01:18 <som1[m]> and it is 'not very anonymous' and 
22:01:29 <som1[m]> lags far behind tor project in term of academic review
22:01:57 <merope> > not secure
22:01:58 <merope> [citation needed]
22:02:30 <som1[m]> not secure, because it lacks any citation :)
22:02:37 <som1[m]> that is the citation in itself
22:02:43 <merope> It has less (not zero) academic review compared to tor, but that does not make it intrinsically insecure
22:02:58 <merope> There are papers that analyze the security aspects of i2p
22:03:08 <som1[m]> you are not the right person to aruge )
22:03:23 <som1[m]> then why there are no dark net markets for i2p and no one uses i2p 
22:03:31 <som1[m]> there exists only mirror
22:03:33 <merope> I would suggest doing some digging before you go around making bold claims like "it's not secure"
22:04:11 <som1[m]> i2p has very less engagement with academics and researchers. so i would say if you are using i2p "you are taking blind risk"
22:04:33 <merope> Keyword: you would say that
22:05:21 <merope> I'm sure that someone talking about academic research would understand the distinction
22:06:13 <som1[m]> you are not the right person to review,  also grass is green.
22:06:26 <som1[m]> right person to argue*
22:06:42 <merope> And how would you know that, exactly? :)
22:08:01 <som1[m]> nym networks seems to be promising than tor and i2p,  but it comes with a catch :)
22:11:15 <som1[m]> Anyone know about Mesh network, i think Monero should work to intergrate such project with itself 
22:11:47 <merope> Pull requests are always welcome, if you're willing to do the work
22:12:09 <merope> (Or if you're willing to pay for someone else to do it)
22:12:26 <som1[m]> endor00: do you know about mesh network 
22:12:47 <merope> I know some stuff, yes
22:13:38 <chesterfield[m]> Monero should work over ham radio
22:14:18 <som1[m]> so our current internet infrastructure is centralised, where ISP acts as gatekeeper,  with single point of control, and government can shut down the internet anytime.  It is not controlled by the people,  but by the corps and governments. 
22:15:08 <som1[m]> so a mesh network is "community network", "off-the-grid network" by the people, for the people. 
22:15:54 <som1[m]> Mesh network has mesh topology, like monero network,  unlike our current internet infrastructure which has star topology, so there is no single point of control,  and it is immune to censorship.
22:16:59 <chesterfield[m]> Btw hello og Monero guy
22:16:59 <som1[m]> You must have heard about "CJDNS",  hyperboria network"
22:17:31 <som1[m]> all these are deprecated now, so i ask you to take a look at 'yggdrasil network' 
22:18:01 <som1[m]> https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/ -  encrypted ipv6 overlay routing scheme for mesh network (more scalable than cjdns)
22:18:53 <som1[m]> you can connect to several peers physically (wirelessly) and join the network off the grid, 
22:19:45 <som1[m]> it has its own ipv6 based scalable routing protocol so it is just like traditional web so if you want to access a website or service, you would just put their ip. 
22:20:35 <merope> I'm sure people who are unfamiliar with yggdrasil can go read more about it on its website
22:20:35 <som1[m]> > you can connect to several peers physically (wirelessly) and join the network off the grid, 
22:20:35 <som1[m]> if you don't have any peers around you,  you can also connect to them over internet,  by running Yggdrasil tun adapter, think if it like a vpn,  where all your traffic will be forwarded to the network
22:21:49 <som1[m]> so essentially we are creating our parallel internet network,  just like we created our parallel currency system (monero).
22:23:20 <som1[m]> so the place where i live, i don't have any peer connected to yggdrasil network near me,  so i am connected to the yggdrasil peer over internet i.e. connected to the network. 
22:23:20 <som1[m]> so yggdrasil is also a "overlay network implementation of a new routing scheme for mesh networks. It is designed to be a future-proof decentralised alternative to the structured routing protocols commonly used today on the Internet and other networks."
22:24:16 <som1[m]> it already has thousands of node running, so many people are running services you could visit here: "https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/services.html" 
22:25:53 <som1[m]> like someone is running tor proxy,  http proxy (to www internet), i2p proxy so there is no issue.  when you will use yggdrasil network, you won't feel the different,  because the difference is in physical layer (network topology). 
22:26:31 <som1[m]> so i think, this project better suits monero use-cases, 
22:26:59 <merope> Funny how you criticize i2p for the lack of extensive review, yet you're here promoting a network that is even newer and less stable, and lacks any formal review at all
22:27:06 <som1[m]> i don't need to explain you more, but i want someone to write CCS to work on this, and make some reddit post, explaining people.
22:27:29 <som1[m]> merope: that is not the point,  i am talking about something entirely different.
22:27:51 <merope> > i want someone to write CCS to work on this
22:27:51 <merope> That's not how it works. If you want to do work, then you write it. Otherwise, you can't make any demands from anyone
22:28:30 <som1[m]> Monero is decentralised,  but it still need centralised internet infrasrtucutre to work on top, that most people use,  you could say people could transfer monero over pendrive but thats not hte point. 
22:29:28 <som1[m]> similarly i2p, tor etc all these are overlay protocol to work over centralised internet,  while mesh network is entrirely different thing,  you could join the network by connecting to a peer (could be your neighbour who is connected to the network)  wirelessly. 
22:29:38 <merope> som1[m]: But it *is* the point, you're just ignoring it because it is inconvenient for you :)
22:30:33 <merope> Because by your own definition, yggdrasil is even less secure than i2p
22:31:15 <som1[m]> i am not talking about i2p, we can leave that for later
22:31:46 <som1[m]> you seem to be a troll
22:31:56 <merope> So: are you going to write the CCS request to fund a developer willing to work on the yggdrasil integration? Or post and fund a bounty on bounties.monero.social ?
22:33:50 <som1[m]> no, i think monero community should start thinking about integrating with mesh networks :)  
22:33:50 <som1[m]> bitcoin already has support via blockstream satellite to join the bitcoin network off-the-grid,  this fully decentralised 
22:33:50 <som1[m]> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/from-isp-to-p2p-how-mesh-networks-take-bitcoin-off-the-grid
22:35:20 <som1[m]> but with yggdrasil,  it is not only limited to bitcoin broadcasting,  you could access any service hosted on the network like traditional internet. 
22:35:37 <merope> If you do some digging, you'll find that we have already thought about mesh networks in the past - specifically, using radio devices. The guy who wrote the CCS ran off with the money he got and delivered fuckall in exchange
22:36:33 <som1[m]> you don't have to work on anything, maybe the fund the yggdrasil project,  ask more monero-related anom reseracher, developers to help that project.
22:36:50 <som1[m]> take a look at: https://freifunk.net/
22:37:26 <som1[m]> if you live in germany, france  you could join the wireless network by  buying the radion device. 
22:37:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> <som1[m]> "i don't need to explain you more..." <- I want "som1" to do it too
22:37:44 <merope> Our current devs and researchers already have a lot on their plate. If you want to get this done, your best bet is to find a new dev and pay them to work on this
22:37:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not just any "someone" though 
22:38:54 <som1[m]> then we need to recognise this atleast.  
22:38:54 <som1[m]> > If you do some digging, you'll find that we have already thought about mesh networks in the past - specifically, using radio devices.
22:38:54 <som1[m]> great,  you can start with yggdrasil,  which is the only choice here
22:39:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who is "you"? You?
22:39:26 <merope> Why don't you start? :)
22:39:51 <som1[m]> how monero users can support this ?  "they can run monero service like monero node,  proxies, etc" on yggdrasil network.
22:40:37 <merope> Is your monero node reachable via yggdrasil?
22:40:48 <som1[m]> i don't run a monero node.
22:41:00 <merope> Then start by doing that
22:41:19 <merope> Then write down the steps on how you did it, and post them online where people can find it
22:41:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> som1[m]: https://github.com/nahuhh/android-termux-monero-node/releases/tag/master-beta
22:41:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merry xmas
22:42:33 <som1[m]> endor00 is troll, ignore him.
22:42:48 <merope> No, just a guy who doesn't like entitled assholes :)
22:43:08 <som1[m]> but i am talking to people, who will write CCS for monero integration with mesh-network projects,  and post same on reddit, etc
22:43:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> som1[m]: https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20220708#c118260
22:43:25 <merope> You walk in here telling "monero devs should do this and that, because I say so", yet you're not even part of the network yourself
22:43:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: You cant even be bothered to run a node 
22:43:58 <merope> som1[m]: Great! Make sure to post it here as well when you've done it, so that we can contribute!
22:44:28 <merope> (And make sure you have a developer ready to do the work when you post the CCS)
22:44:53 <som1[m]> merope: sir, there is a difference between  architect, and workers :)
22:45:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/plowsof/flipstarter-waas-wip
22:45:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Go raise some money and come back with the funds 
22:45:27 <merope> Sir, this is open source. If you want something done, go do it yourself or pay someone to do it for you
22:45:55 <zounds[m]> som1[m]: I like the idea but if you aren't even running a node then you can't even claim to be a worker much less an "architect" 
22:45:56 <merope> Otherwise, feel free to keep architecting your dreams
22:46:29 <zounds[m]> And running a node is like posting to signs at a worksite. Literally the easiest thing to do
22:46:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or be valuable enough to do it yourself and be paid to do it
22:48:15 <som1[m]> i think people who are already running the various services for monero community can run yggdrasil node to be accessible over that mesh netwokr.
22:48:45 <bridgerton[m]> <GuffyLuffy> wassup
22:48:50 <merope> Sure they can - but they need someone to show them how. So why don't you lead by example?
22:49:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> som1[m]: I think you can do that shit yourself, asshole 
22:50:28 <bridgerton[m]> <GuffyLuffy> DANNNGGG u got called and asshole
22:51:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> The audacity of this som1.
22:51:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not running a node? /ignore
22:51:56 <bridgerton[m]> <GuffyLuffy> lol
22:53:49 * som1[m] uploaded an image: (76KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XYSrfAIXnfDbDaDqQoqidLvg/image.png >
22:53:50 <som1[m]> for those who don't know this is how it works: 
22:54:10 <som1[m]> giving the example of briar.
22:54:12 <bridgerton[m]> <GuffyLuffy> oh kool
22:54:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Seriously.. som1: thats pretty ballsy. "I dont support monero. Im going to tell you what to do though" 
22:54:43 <bridgerton[m]> <GuffyLuffy> ayy can any of yall see my texts? i wanna make sure before i start talking to my self
22:55:00 <merope> Yes GuffyLuffy
22:55:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yea luffy I can. Luffy the pk?
22:55:44 <bridgerton[m]> <GuffyLuffy> yes
22:55:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Based
22:57:02 <som1[m]> read this: http://web.archive.org/web/20190903032616/https://n-o-d-e.net/hyperboria.html
23:03:13 <som1[m]> also take a look at: https://txtenna.com/ -> by samourai wallet
23:03:13 <som1[m]> but in monero case, instead of specialised software,  there could be user broadcasting monero payments off-the-grid to satellite or connected peers wirelessly, which is connected to yggdrasil network and the packet willl travel to destination (monero node hosted on network) instead of our current world wide wed. 
23:03:13 <som1[m]> everyone running same mesh protocol.
23:19:44 <bridgerton[m]> <GuffyLuffy> looks interesting
23:38:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not sure if already reported
23:38:20 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (1110KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/ZAWVxUTrquHODxsvkZRbsWSZ/Imagepipe_226.jpg >
23:41:16 <merope> First time I see it, thanks 
23:47:04 <plowsof> escapethe3ra ^ 👀