02:37:17 <mattexchangefx[m> Never depend on a single income to get financial freedom. I can teach you how you can earn from $5,000 to $6,000 weekly,without sending money to me or anyone, but you will pay me 10% commission when you receive your profit. if you are interested, click on the link to join the chat room 👇
02:37:17 <mattexchangefx[m> https://t.me/+TGide6vQ554mNgRY
11:56:39 <tel> Please teach me how to use monero
12:01:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> What would you like to know?
12:01:49 <tel> ofrnxmr[m] I want to know how to use it
12:02:34 <tel> I've heard monero is slow, is it true?
12:05:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> No. Around 2 seconds to send a transaction, similar time to show up with the receiver
12:08:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> 20mins to unlock new received money or change. << this is the only "slow" part. Cannot spend until unlocked.
12:08:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> 20mins is only = 2 btc confirmations, so I dont see 20mins as slow. More as "inconvenient"
12:10:42 <merope> It's pretty fast at sending transactions 
12:10:48 <tel> Is there any other privacy-respecting cryptocurrency  like Monero?
12:10:49 <r4v3r23[m]> <tel> "I've heard monero is slow, is it..." <- download a wallet and use it yourself
12:11:28 <tel> r4v3r23[m] ok but which wallet? Cli wallet doesn't work in termux android
12:12:44 <r4v3r23[m]> tel: monerujo is easy to use on android
12:13:02 <r4v3r23[m]> check feather wallet for desktop
12:13:54 <tel> r4v3r23[m] what's your primary wallet?
12:19:58 <selsta> tel: CLI wallet does work on termux
12:20:06 <selsta> I sent you the download link last time https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/
12:20:30 <selsta> only the version from the termux package manager seems broken, but that one isn't maintained by us
12:21:46 <r4v3r23[m]> none. i just larp here
12:24:30 <ypavtv97lx[m]> As of today Monero is better store of value than Bitcoin: 12 months holding, Bitcoin is down 32% vs Monero down 10%
12:24:38 <ypavtv97lx[m]> Ethereum dropped by 18% in a year span, but it's a premined clusterfuck going PoS so who cares.
12:25:32 <zoom0ut> zoom out
12:26:43 <ypavtv97lx[m]> it also had much more stable price over the year
12:27:24 <tel> selsta: Can you provide script to install?
12:27:48 <tel> Is there any other privacy-respecting cryptocurrency like Monero?
12:28:08 <selsta> wget https://downloads.getmonero.org/cli/androidarm8
12:28:10 <selsta> extract
12:28:12 <ypavtv97lx[m]> plenty but they are all scams 
12:28:42 <tel> Monero isn't scam?
12:28:50 <ypavtv97lx[m]> nope.
12:31:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero is likely the most (arguably the only) honest cryptocurrency project 
12:37:05 <ypavtv97lx[m]> they could as well redirect /r/cryptocurrency to /r/monero :D
12:37:59 <ypavtv97lx[m]> lot of people get burned by this sub, getting into scam projects and leaving them with bad opinion about cryptocurrencies in general for the rest of their lifes
12:39:02 <ypavtv97lx[m]> part of them know they are investing in scams but think they will win with the casino 
12:43:23 <monerobull[m]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2I8cBpsUnc
12:44:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=H2I8cBpsUnc&local=true
12:51:04 <tel> Difference between Monero_com and Cake apk? https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/releases
12:51:51 <selsta> monero.com is only a monero wallet
12:51:55 <selsta> cake wallet is a multicoin wallet
12:52:08 <selsta> otherwise no difference as far as i know
13:21:17 <tel> Shruum is very bad because it needs orbot
13:24:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerujo needs orbot for tor... but doesnt even work
13:24:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Both using orbot is 100% unnecessary and I plan to remove orbot from both 
13:27:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Monerujo does not need orbot for clearnet connections. Works perfectly fine for those)
13:27:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerujo also doesnt support ssl though.. 
13:30:37 <tel> Orbot is not 100% secure
13:30:46 <tel> Tor in termux is 100% secure
13:30:56 <tel> How to run my node in monerujo?
13:31:16 <tel> Where to buy monero?
13:37:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Buy monero cask? Or trade for crypto? 
13:37:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cash - localmonero, kraken
13:37:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Swap - majesticbank, changenow.io, fixedfloat
13:37:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Exchange - tradeogre, kucoin 
13:38:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> <tel> "How to run my node in monerujo?" <- Monerujo doesnt run a node.
13:38:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can run a node in termux and connect to it from moneujo
13:40:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can run this node on the same device, but preferrably you run it on a dedicated that will be plugged in for most/all day.
13:40:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/nahuhh/android-termux-monero-node/releases/tag/master-beta
13:40:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Everything you need for android node is here 
13:44:14 <tel> Can I run node in heroku? 512mb ram
13:45:42 <tel> Storage is about 400gb
13:50:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dont quote me, I dont know anything about heroku
13:51:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> But id say not enough ram.. but... you try it and let us know
14:03:47 <SerHack> tel: it's a little bit difficult because Heroku does not like anything Monero-based (thanks to the people that tried to mine on those machines)
14:42:42 <garth> Five bucks says Cake is gonna give the Monero.com domain to the project because nobody uses that app and everybody just sticks with Cakewallet. Good thing too since it's better than GetMonero.org
14:47:31 <jwinterm[m]> I say no way at least not in the next 12 months
14:47:37 <jwinterm[m]> They just launched that
14:49:14 <zoom0ut> garth: I will give 5 bucks for that
14:49:26 <garth> Yes but eventually
14:49:32 <garth> Obvs not soon
17:32:38 <Fishy[m]> Hello, I'm joining because I'm interested in exploring the potential for a Monero-native stablecoin. I have a lot of experience working with Fei Protocol, a stablecoin on ETH L1. Stablecoins are my area of expertise (:
17:37:31 <merope> tldr: stablecoins require a trusted middleman, which is kind of a nono around here
17:37:44 <merope> As for algorithmic stablecoins: lmao
17:38:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> As for stablecoins in general. Lol.
17:38:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nothing stable about the usd
17:41:06 <merope> You know what would be fun? A stablecoin pegged to gold and other precious commodities
17:41:21 <merope> Not saying it's a good idea, but it would definitely be fun to see
17:43:15 <Rucknium[m]> Fishy: Describe how stablecoins are your area of expertise. The economics of them? The programming of them? etc.
17:51:24 <sirbanana[m]> <merope> "You know what would be fun? A..." <- You have it already pax gold
18:09:13 <Fishy[m]> <merope> "As for algorithmic stablecoins..." <- There are plenty of successful algostables, LUSD and RAI being examples of the most decentralized ones
18:11:29 <Fishy[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "Fishy: Describe how stablecoins..." <- Mainly stablecoin design and economics of stablecoins
18:11:30 <Fishy[m]> I think eventually stablecoins will have to monitor both interest rates and quantity rates in the way that RAI does, but with more fine tuning to ensure a tighter peg
18:12:10 <Monegro> Hey what do yall think of a coin which has an emission schedule dependent on both time *and* mining difficulty
18:12:11 <Monegro> ?
18:12:45 <Monegro> That way, emission goes up as more miners join the network. It prevents crazy lopsided supply distributions, but still rewards the early miners
18:13:03 <Fishy[m]> <merope> "You know what would be fun? A..." <- not a fungible coin but commodities can be accessed on-chain via Kwenta's synthetic assets
18:13:26 <Monegro> It would smooth out supply inelasticity, and act as a "quasi" stablecoin
18:14:12 <Monegro> Because as adoption and purchasing increases, the issuance increases with it. So it helps to avoid the crazy parabolas of crypto. It would be CPU mined (merge mined with XMR), so everyone in the world could get their hands on some
18:14:15 <Rucknium[m]> Fishy: Do you have papers available to read?
18:17:06 <Fishy[m]> Rucknium[m]: The only ultra-detailed media I've created on stablecoins is a diagram for a stablecoin AMM (automated market maker), I can however explain the mechanism design behind most stablecoins
18:19:50 * Fishy[m] uploaded an image: (234KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/hSUGxZNYYyqhvnPMGEhlelAp/FishySwapDiagram.png >
18:20:52 <Rucknium[m]> It is formal mechanism design? In other words, proven to produce a certain game theory equilibrium?
18:22:42 <Rucknium[m]> And then follow-up question: What notion of equilibrium do you use?
18:25:42 <Rucknium[m]> And are multiple equilibria possible?
18:28:42 <Fishy[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "It is formal mechanism design?..." <- I've not engaged with any formal mechanism design material
18:30:40 <Fishy[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "And then follow-up question..." <- I'm unsure of the exact meaning of this question, for example like LUSD is priced at $1.03 right now because LUSD holders are charging a fee via market mechanisms rather than changing the protocol (the protocol is immutable)
18:31:09 <Fishy[m]> This is some form of equilibrium right now, however if some large ETH holder decided they wanted a bunch of leverage and borrowed and sold LUSD it could go to $1 again
18:35:02 <Rucknium[m]> The game theory equilibrium. I've only read one stablecoin white paper with my economist eyeglasses on, but I was not impressed with the one that I did read. To be frank, there are a lot of people playing with economic forces that they do not understand in the cryptosphere.
18:36:20 <Fishy[m]> Rucknium[m]: probably so, I'm not a formally trained economist or academic
18:36:43 <Fishy[m]> but I'm just interested in proposing ideas and seeing if others can poke holes in them
18:36:48 <rbrunner> Maybe some context that I googled: https://fei.money/  https://twitter.com/FishFishDeFi  https://medium.com/volt-protocol/treasury-and-risk-management-d5792754a4df
18:38:59 <Fishy[m]> rbrunner: in the context of Volt Protocol I did not ever agree that the VOLT stablecoin had a strong chance of maintaining peg with the design it launched with, there were additional mechanisms being created (a form of lending insurance essentially) to try to keep the stablecoin at peg
18:39:08 <Fishy[m]> just disclosing that so I don't take heat over that article haha
18:39:37 <Fishy[m]> > <@rbrunner:libera.chat> Maybe some context that I googled: https://fei.money/  https://twitter.com/FishFishDeFi  https://medium.com/volt-protocol/treasury-and-risk-management-d5792754a4df
18:39:37 <Fishy[m]>  * in the context of Volt Protocol I did not ever agree that the VOLT stablecoin had a strong chance of maintaining peg with the design it launched with, there were additional mechanisms in the works (a form of lending insurance essentially) to try to keep the stablecoin at peg that had better chances
18:40:46 <rbrunner> Well, only reading over that article, without even going much into details, gave me a first impression about what monumental amounts of complexity we are likely talking here
18:41:18 <rbrunner> We here have all hands full with basically a single task: Make a single good cryptocurrency, period.
18:41:57 <rbrunner> If I see how the DeFi people juggle with coins, DAOs, chains, contracts, yada, yada I get downright dizzy
18:42:32 <rbrunner> And a constant nagging feeling like "They can't be serious, or can they?"
18:43:51 <Fishy[m]> rbrunner: most of DeFi is pretty useless compared to TradFi I'll agree
18:43:51 <Fishy[m]> But something like a decentralized stablecoin is necessary for mass adoption of private electronic currency
18:45:17 <rbrunner> Well, the Swiss National Bank also tried their luck with a "stablecoin", they tried to hold CHF at EUR 1.20, and they threw tens of billions of EUR at the problem
18:45:31 <rbrunner> and failed spectacularly.
18:45:38 <rbrunner> I guess we can do better :)
18:46:06 <rbrunner> Oh, the other way round of course, the EUR at CHF 1.20
18:46:13 <Rucknium[m]> My initial guess is "we" cannot :P
18:46:54 <rbrunner> I guess the SNB did not use the right game theory then :)
18:47:12 <aremor[m]> Honest question: why does the IRC server of a privacy focused crypto currency require light KYC to use it?
18:47:15 <rbrunner> Or the algorithm had a bug somewhere
18:47:40 <Rucknium[m]> Often the correct application of game theory is to realize that achieving a certain goal is impossible.
18:47:54 <jwinterm[m]> How does irc require kyc?
18:47:56 <rbrunner> aremor: Er ... because it's not "our" server?
18:48:21 <rbrunner> Maybe Libera has restriction how you can or cannot register
18:48:23 <jwinterm[m]> You can connect to libera using Tor right?
18:48:24 <aremor[m]> rbrunner: But it was chosen to be used though 
18:48:43 <aremor[m]> jwinterm[m]: Validated email 
18:48:48 <jwinterm[m]> I've heard oftc is a bit more Tor friendly
18:49:12 <jwinterm[m]> You don't have to register though do you?
18:49:40 <rbrunner> Aren't some channels for some times only for registered users?
18:49:46 <aremor[m]> jwinterm[m]: To be honest I think that’s the one I’m thinking of. You have to validate your info on there 
18:49:48 <rbrunner> After spam attacks and such
18:50:08 <Fishy[m]> The most effective stablecoins use collateral and debt (seizing the collateral when collateral value gets too close to debt value)
18:50:08 <Fishy[m]> Doesn't sound like the SNB was doing such a thing, seemed like they were moreso participating in open market operations to try to peg their currency to one they didn't have control of. Quite literally LUNA-tier 
18:51:21 <rbrunner> And you have control over everything? Well, I guess one cloud castle is controlling the other one :)
19:00:14 <Fishy[m]> What the SNB was trying to do was ignorant of supply and demand. Like 1 CHF has different demand than 1.2 EUR (for example if EU states demand higher taxes EUR grows in value). 1$ of ETH and 1$ of USD have the same demand because ETH is priced in USD (what gives ETH its $ value is its demand)
19:03:25 <rbrunner> As I see it, the whole affair simply got too expensive. The SNB on one side, pretty alone, and monumental market forces on the other side. The markets won.
19:03:32 <Fishy[m]> <rbrunner> "And you have control over..." <- Sure, I don't have control over USD or ETH price, but letting people borrow a synthetic dollar with ETH collateral does not require either of those things, simply that someone is willing to hold the synthetic dollar and lend to the borrower.
19:04:35 <rbrunner> "someone is willing". Yeah, right, that's the key. If nobody is willing, all comes crashing down, one way or another.
19:05:35 <rbrunner> Remember, nobody deemed it possible in the slighest that Bear Stearns would collapse, and AIG nearly so.
19:05:59 <rbrunner> Simply wrong algorithm, eh? :)
19:06:04 <Fishy[m]> rbrunner: If they are not willing to hold the stablecoin the system can safely unwind as borrowers repay their debts and withdraw their ETH.
19:06:32 <Fishy[m]> rbrunner: Not even the wrong algo, the wrong goal
19:08:10 <Fishy[m]> I'm simply interested in knowing the specific reason LUSD you believe LUSD will blow up, other than a "X financial institution with different characteristics blew up" fallacy
19:08:16 <Fishy[m]> s/LUSD//
19:22:11 <Fishy[m]> With the Bear Stearns comparison maybe its possible that the LTV (loan-to-value) ratios on synthetic stablecoins are too high, but that doesn't invalidate the entire mechanism of collateralized debt stables. (It just means they have certain failure modes)
19:24:13 <Fishy[m]> For example, I'd be comfortable holding a stablecoin with a 20% LTV backed by XMR collateral, as I don't think XMR will drop more than 50% in one block
19:24:26 <Fishy[m]> s/%/%+/
19:30:01 <jwinterm[m]> Kinda stinks haven used XUSD and they're kinda scam cause XUSD is pretty good ticker 
19:45:31 <garth> I heard a rumor that stablecoins are a government psyop to bring Jimmy Hoffa back from the dead and have him testify that the moon landing was totally legit
19:45:52 <rbrunner> "X financial institution with different characteristics blew up" fallacy. Why fallacy?
19:46:05 <rbrunner> So far seems to me we more or less talk past each other
19:46:28 <rbrunner> I talk about people, you talk about algorithms, technical things, constructs
19:47:15 <rbrunner> I am convinced that there is nothing on Earth that can *force* people to continue to believe in something, or in all cases offer a graceful exit if they stop to believe
19:48:14 <rbrunner> You think I operate with fallacies. I think your arguments are a good example of hubris.
19:49:01 <rbrunner> All history of commerce and credit and currencies and so on, 5000 years or so, does not matter: We know better now.
19:49:10 <rbrunner> No, sorry, we don't.
19:51:24 <rbrunner> We don't even know yet whether bog-standard cryptocurrencies like BTC and XMR will really work over time.
19:52:04 <rbrunner> Maybe we will just fade into the background of history again with all our "coins" in 10 years or so because we fail to solve big enough problems, or something better comes along.
19:53:40 <rbrunner> But, well, of course I am only a single member of a big community, don't take me too serious :) A really solid proposal of yours may well rise interest.
19:54:15 <rbrunner> After all "Can we have an XMR based stablecoin" is something like an FAQ on the Monero subreddit.
19:55:13 <monerobull[m]> Algo stable coins never work out, i wouldn't touch it
19:56:28 <rbrunner> Ah, you don't know yet, you can become "liquidity provider", you will 5% XMR each month on your "liquidity". Deal?
19:57:01 <rbrunner> *you will earn
19:57:30 <monerobull[m]> Damn have my private keys 
19:58:58 <seragold[m]> I can't say for sure that there is not and never can be an algorithmic peg that works.  I am suspicious of big Blackrock borrow of BTC much of which was used in large UST buy and then dump of all.  By analysis of those that buy this scenario Blackrock made about $1 billion and this started the free fall of UST peg in a big way.  Which in turn took out some major places people were staking their crypto for long term income.  And
19:58:58 <seragold[m]> it is certainly likely Blackrock does what the US and international government community wants to keep its high seat. 
19:59:16 <seragold[m]> One lesson is keep custody of your crypto!
21:00:16 <revuoxmr> Revuo Monero. Issue 130: July 21 - 28, 2022. http://revuo-xmr.com/issue-130.html
21:12:12 <Fishy[m]> <rbrunner> "I am convinced that there is..." <- Sure, I agree. I'm just operating on the assumption people value assets the way they do today (no black swan events). Obviously no system can survive every scenario, and if it seemed like I was saying that sorry. 
21:17:00 <luigi1112> ok meeting in 42h44m
21:17:11 <luigi1112> no ifs ands or buts
21:18:28 <dukenukem> ok boss
21:18:44 <dukenukem> 🫡
21:25:14 <plowsof> if it wasn't for checking Revuo i would not have noticed that SolOpt merge request 
21:34:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> spirobel:  dont miss out this time 
21:41:17 <zoom0ut> I will be away
22:04:24 <jwinterm[m]> oh 42h44m
22:04:27 <jwinterm[m]> I was all ready for 44 min
22:04:29 <jwinterm[m]> lol
22:09:32 <plowsof> jwinterm ready to throw down with a moments notice, i like that 
22:10:37 <jwinterm> 🫡
22:11:05 <jwinterm> I am sitting at bar next to only weird people working on python code for accounting
22:11:13 <jwinterm> so ready to throw down on anything almost