01:54:08 <sis3020[m]> Come play the top mmorpg https://feetporn.win/ qrtufs experiment soon
02:06:24 <mib[m]> <sis3020> "Come play the top mmorpg https:/..." <- charuto
02:06:48 <mib[m]> * charuto needmoney90 BanhammerMonero
05:23:52 <rbrunner> As a follow-up to yesterday's discussion about Monero and stable coins I checked what the people over at Haven Protocol are doing (Haven is a codefork of Monero)
05:24:51 <rbrunner> They have xUSD what I think can be called an algorithmic stablecoin
05:25:10 <rbrunner> It aims to implement a peg of 1:1 with USD
05:25:53 <rbrunner> It seems it could hold that peg more or less until last month, now it stands at half the price it should: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/xusd/
05:26:31 <rbrunner> (If you zoom the graph out to 1 full year you can see how that played out.)
05:28:07 <rbrunner> I wonder a bit how that de-peg happened because the price of XHV / Haven itself does not show anything too drastic happening in June
05:30:10 <aremor[m]> rbrunner: Is it simply that stablecoins don’t work? 
05:30:46 <rbrunner> You said that, not me :)
05:31:36 <aremor[m]> XHV has different principles from xUSD.  Two different tokens. Just same chain.
05:32:01 <rbrunner> But yeah, I think if you are as small as Haven, with a current market cap of only USD 14 million for XHV, maybe that really does not work
05:33:09 <sech1> They halted xUSD in May, I think
05:33:19 <rbrunner> Yes, I think the "trick" should be that XHV is "adjusted" somehow by an algorithm to keep xUSD stable.
05:33:59 <rbrunner> You mean they switched off that algorithm, e.g. to protect XHV?
05:34:05 <sech1> Yes, you can't exchange XHV to xUSD and vice versa now
05:34:28 <rbrunner> Splendid. That was basically the whole value proposition, no?
05:34:29 <sech1> IIRC they did it after Terra collapse
05:35:18 <rbrunner> Strange I did not hear about that. I follow Monero forks quite closely. Maybe it is so small not enough people cared.
05:35:28 <aremor[m]> sech1: I saw that and thought it was only the exchange mechanism they had 
05:36:15 <rbrunner> Yup, disabled: https://www.reddit.com/r/havenprotocol/comments/v9q271/haven_protocol_is_not_decentralized_with_the/
05:36:56 <aremor[m]> “Conversions”, right
05:36:56 <rbrunner> https://www.reddit.com/r/havenprotocol/comments/v9ptm1/conversions_are_currently_disabled/
05:37:18 <rbrunner> "It was necessary to make this change without community consultation to prevent panic conversions from compounding the issue."
05:37:39 <rbrunner> A, only the danger of some panic on the horizon, and the stablecoin basically shuts down already?
05:38:07 <rbrunner> And I thought a stablecoin's purpose is protecting me against rough times ... silly me.
05:39:02 <rbrunner> Sigh. I am too old for this shit, really.
05:47:41 <aremor[m]> Damn, I actually had some of that for a slight second on tradeogre
05:48:13 <aremor[m]> But I don’t hold crap like that. Never.
05:55:20 <rbrunner> Stable crap, not crap :)
06:01:20 <rbrunner> I can't let go, I have to ramble on a little more still: From their blog post giving details https://havenprotocol.org/2022/06/13/conversions-paused/
06:01:41 <rbrunner> "In addition, the economics working group had already been discussing the potential for on-chain mechanisms that would automatically pause conversions."
06:01:51 <rbrunner> " This would be built into the protocol and be triggered if pre-determined asset ratios in the network were reached."
06:02:06 <rbrunner> Isn't this basically declaring defeat?
06:29:08 <ct[m]> I don't think so. In the past the most pressing issue with halting any blockchain or conversions was, that it was initiated by humans, so there is no guarantee that it won't be halted for other reasons (ie. politics)
06:29:08 <ct[m]> Embedding the decision to pause execution in the code prevents that kind of manipulation.
06:32:11 <ct[m]> In general adding a failsafe to experimental code is a good idea. I'd prefer this over arrogant devs who think they get it perfect on first try
11:11:39 <garth> Maybe someday they'll figure out a trustless stablecoin but we are certainly not there yet. I am dubious if we'll ever get there since it seems crypto sucks at being attached to real world things. "Land deeds on the blockchain! Fine art on the blockchain!"
11:15:11 <garth> It seems to me that cryptocurrencies work best when they remain inside of a digital space. So what sort of stablecoin would exist that is disattached from the USD? Because it seems that making a stablecoin worth, lets say, $1, requires that real world attachment, which then requires arbitration, which then kills decentralization, which is cryptos entire raison d'etre.
12:50:32 <Rucknium[m]> Meeting is supposed to happen Saturday 15:00 UTC, correct?
12:52:11 <plowsof> i only know '42 hours and 44 mins' from that message? is that what 15:00 UTC is?
13:32:42 <zoom0ut> from my calculations it is 16:00 UTC
13:33:07 <zoom0ut> who do I give my proxy to? 
15:01:16 <tel> Someone sell me xmr
15:03:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> For cash or crypto? You have options 
15:04:32 <MrWonderland[m]> <garth> "It seems to me that cryptocurren..." <- I really don't get the idea of stablecoins. If the goal of these cryptos are to be always worth 1$ then the total supply inflates at the exact same rate as the $ does. Just controlled by a different entity (so it's even more useless than the $). In that case just wait for the CBDC or use online banking I guess?
15:04:32 <MrWonderland[m]> The only way a 'stablecoin' could maybe work, if you bind it to silver or gold e.g. 1 SCoin equals 1g of gold. But then you still have the problem of the need to trust that entity that hands out this coins.
15:05:18 <MrWonderland[m]> tel: localmonero.co
15:06:40 <jwinterm[m]> > <@mrwonderland:tchncs.de> I really don't get the idea of stablecoins. If the goal of these cryptos are to be always worth 1$ then the total supply inflates at the exact same rate as the $ does. Just controlled by a different entity (so it's even more useless than the $). In that case just wait for the CBDC or use online banking I guess?
15:06:40 <jwinterm[m]> > The only way a 'stablecoin' could maybe work, if you bind it to silver or gold e.g. 1 SCoin equals 1g of gold. But then you still have the problem of the need to trust that entity that hands out this coins.
15:06:40 <jwinterm[m]> Exactly, USDT is just dollars controlled by another centralized entity, but it obviously fills a need for many users since USDT dominates total trading volume
15:06:59 <jwinterm[m]> You might not "get it"
15:07:07 <jwinterm[m]> But clearly many many people do
15:08:48 <MrWonderland[m]> I'm really curious what exactly is the use for it then? I mean I can see, that it gets used a lot, but I don't understand why (because in my eyes it doesn't really makes sense as I explained my view earlier)
15:08:55 <monerobull[m]> Stuff like usdt is mainly used for trading 
15:09:53 <zoom0ut> what a stable coin provides that usd does not is quick transfers and different gatekeepers 
15:10:06 <MrWonderland[m]> So you don't have to give someone your bank account number? And no three day waiting for the transaction to finish?
15:10:14 <monerobull[m]> Not really 
15:10:24 <monerobull[m]> Like crypto-trading
15:10:26 <monerobull[m]> Gambling on price
15:11:00 <monerobull[m]> I have 10 Bitcoin, Bitcoin goes up, i sell for tether, wait till Bitcoin goes down and buy back more
15:11:44 <monerobull[m]> Tether can be put into liquidity pools and therefore traded on decentralized exchanges
15:11:54 <ComplyLast> <jwinterm[m]> > The only way a 'stablecoin' could maybe work, if you bind it to silver or gold e.g. 1 SCoin equals 1g of gold. But then you still have the problem of the need to trust that entity that hands out this coins.
15:11:55 <monerobull[m]> Can't do that with regular dollars
15:11:55 <zoom0ut> meanwhile in Thailand bank transfers take 5 minutes 
15:12:02 <ComplyLast> that does already exist jwinterm[m] fyi
15:12:03 <MrWonderland[m]> Ah okay, thx! So stablecoins do make some sense :D
15:12:57 <monerobull[m]> It makes sense if you trade cryptos regularly, yes
15:13:42 <monerobull[m]> It's not trying to replace cash or anything, eventhough in some places with a weak local currency, people save up in tether
15:14:17 <monerobull[m]> Obviously very risky in case it depegs and you lose everything 
15:14:57 <monerobull[m]> But even here in Europe, had i bought tether with my money instead of letting it sit around in Euros, I'd be up 20%
15:15:30 <zoom0ut> or bought usd ?
15:15:59 <monerobull[m]> Yeah but it's way easierand cheaper for me to buy tether
15:16:05 <monerobull[m]> * Yeah but it's way easier and cheaper for me to buy tether
15:18:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> So, cbdc
15:18:16 <zoom0ut> yes
15:21:03 <ComplyLast> CBDC will have all the problems of current financial systems on steroids, minus slowness
15:22:26 <jwinterm> ComplyLast: imo it has "worked" for the last 8 years or whatever since tether launched
15:22:41 <ComplyLast> yes, I agree
15:22:48 <ComplyLast> and clearly market sees a need for it
15:22:54 <ComplyLast> and it's somewhat easy to understand:
15:23:20 <ComplyLast> it's cheaper to transact, way less regulatory oversight and somewhat permitionless (to a degree) compared with traditional usd ramps
15:23:43 <plowsof> i put up the template for the meeting tomorrow that is either taking place at 15 or 16 UTC. will anyone attend? https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/723
15:25:22 <ComplyLast> I was just saying that there are gold backed stablecoins already
15:30:15 <jwinterm> ya, at this point there are so many options for stables, including gold and eur etc., that it is probably a negative since it hurts liquidity
15:30:26 <jwinterm> I guess if bear market continues things will probably consolidate
15:30:46 <jwinterm> *consolidate more
15:43:09 <plowsof> Meeting @ 16UTC https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/wrestling?iso=20220730T16&p0=1440&msg=Monero+Community+Workgroup+Meeting%3A+Saturday+30th+July+2022+%40+16%3A00+UTC+&font=sanserif
16:28:00 <r4v3r23[m]> where can i see pool hashrate %s?
16:30:08 <r4v3r23[m]> Morpheus: could be a good chart
16:34:32 <zoom0ut> https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero
16:38:01 <Morpheus[m]> I have to make a crawler and get this data from them
16:38:25 <Morpheus[m]> But yeah, good chart
16:38:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://pools.xmr.wiki
16:38:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> I usually use ^ but not loading for me right now
16:40:35 <Rucknium[m]> Morpheus: Let me know if you find a reliable way to get historical data that does not come from the chain.
16:41:28 <Rucknium[m]> Some pools, including minexmr, put an indicator in the tx_extra of the coinbase transaction, but not all.
16:41:46 <Rucknium[m]> And all the websites that I checked do not have historical data.
16:44:17 <Rucknium[m]> I was working on statistical project to estimate the effect of minexmr's April 1st increased pool fee (1% to 1.1%) on their share of mined blocks, so I extracted the data from tx_extra. The project seems less of a priority now 🙂
16:58:58 <r4v3r23[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> https://pools.xmr.wiki
16:58:58 <r4v3r23[m]> > 
16:58:58 <r4v3r23[m]> > I usually use ^ but not loading for me right now
16:58:58 <r4v3r23[m]> yeah thats why i was looking for another
18:04:23 <Morpheus[m]> OK, no problem
18:06:56 <Morpheus[m]> I was delaying getting the data from miningpoolstats website, but as far as I know, we'll have historical data only after I start monitoring this
18:07:40 <Morpheus[m]> I could get data from Internet Archive in case there's no other way
18:07:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think thats ok for now. Miningpoolstat only shows a few pages of history, but perhaps the operators have logs going much further back?
18:08:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or internet archive :P
18:09:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> It would be cool if we could also monitor reorgs (the original miner vs new miner) 
18:09:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Morpheus, do you have a WaaS available? 
18:10:49 <Morpheus[m]> No...
18:14:23 <Morpheus[m]> Why?
18:15:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because youre putting in work :P 
18:20:32 <Morpheus[m]> xD I didn't even know WaaS was a thing until the other day
18:21:02 <Morpheus[m]> I plan to launch an API service soon enough 
18:21:33 <Morpheus[m]> But I'm glad people enjoy my work so far haha
18:23:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Very much so. Do you plan on hosting an onion for moneroj.net? (If you dont already have!)
18:23:26 <Morpheus[m]> There's one already
18:23:50 <Morpheus[m]> http://ilt7jgmfro76wgrtt6752lvfnhcz6wk5sjqhyvntjixygp3cwpvr4nad.onion/
18:25:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Interested in a vanity onion?
18:25:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerojnet5jhsiqidvwjqifbwu.onion etc?
18:26:19 <Morpheus[m]> Yes, sure. I didnt know how to have one of those
18:26:29 <Rucknium[m]> There is a way to put the onion URL into the webpage header so that it's easy for people with the Tor Browser to  click on it when they visit the clearnet website
18:27:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Doesn't work on mobile yet though Rucknium: 
18:27:21 <Morpheus[m]> Oh... so that's why people put onion META tags?
18:27:35 <Morpheus[m]> I saw that on some pages, was wondering what was that for
18:28:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Morpheus: 
18:28:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> The tool is here:
18:28:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/cathugger/mkp224o
18:28:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Once it finds your keys, (backup first) then overwrite the contents of your hidden service folder
18:29:02 <Morpheus[m]> I was going to put that Meta tag on moneroj.net, forgot completely
18:29:44 <Morpheus[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Morpheus:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/1fc7b0fd6e108f1ab0e5f1ac5ada60c8af54af7a)
18:30:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> I ran this tool on an android phone and found ofrnxmr in under an hour.
18:30:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> http://ofrnxmrqhjqb2zwl2zafkyv7cd52k5yrnivlu37mo7a7qsd4a3tva5id.onion:18089/get_info
18:30:39 <Morpheus[m]> Cool, nice help guys
19:12:27 <tel> ofrnxmr[m] cash
19:17:50 <tel> MrWonderland[m] why you recommend me a service which need user identity?
19:19:23 <MrWonderland[m]> tel: It depends on which offer you take. There're a lot of non KYC ones (at least in germany).
19:24:48 <tel> Kyc?
19:25:47 <tel> MrWonderland[m]: showing "Signup to start trading"
19:25:50 <tel> Unfair
19:26:03 <tel> I don't want to create any kind of account
19:30:05 <MrWonderland[m]> You only need a username and a password (and maybe an email). You can visit via tor/I2P. It doesn't get much more anonymous while still having some safety.
19:30:05 <MrWonderland[m]> (KYC = know your customer)
19:33:41 <tel> Whose customer am I ?
19:34:14 <tel> I2P looks like stone-age protocol now
19:36:00 <merope> Why would it? It keeps getting updated regularly
19:36:29 <merope> Bonus: it doesn't rely on entry/exit nodes like tor - it's an actual p2p network
19:38:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> tel
19:38:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> How would you be getting the cash to whoever you would like to sell you xmr
19:53:31 <tel> Paypal
19:55:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> .....
19:55:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> You want me to accept PayPal? LOL
19:55:19 <mib[m]> seems like a chargeback nightmare lol
19:55:33 <merope> it is
19:56:02 <mib[m]> you could transact with some stablecoin ^
19:56:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> They could just use fixedfloat then.
19:56:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> They dont need any of us. 
19:56:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ill tell you tel:  like I tell everybody.  Find a friend 
19:57:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Someone you know in real life that has crypto, and buy it from them..
19:57:38 <mib[m]> or just localmonero.
19:57:56 <jwinterm[m]> tel: there are options to do cash by mail or paypal even I think on localmonero
19:58:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Localmonero or even Craigslist might have sellers near you who will meet up without any kyc stuff
20:02:07 <tel> ofrnxmr[m]: BTC ?
20:03:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> BTC to xmr is easy 
20:03:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fixedfloat.com
20:11:20 <tel> ofrnxmr[m]: how do you want the cash?
20:14:56 <tel> What is tari?
20:18:14 <jwinterm[m]> vaporware
20:18:44 <dukenukem> whoa, rude.
20:20:16 <monerobull[m]> He's not wrong, so far it's nothing but vaporware 
20:20:52 <dukenukem> ok Deutschland.
20:22:47 <chesterfield[m]> <tel> "What is tari?" <- VC money milking machine
20:25:00 <jwinterm[m]> it's crazy they've been paying a staff of like 10-30 people or something for five years and haven't attempted any type of shitcoin pump and dump so far
20:26:04 <jwinterm[m]> by the time tari launches they will have to be L2 on bitcoin because all other chains will have died by the time they are ready for mainnet
20:26:15 <tel> Do all nfts present in eth blockchain only?
20:26:34 <tel> Does monero node means the blockchain?
20:29:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes, monero node means tool that syncs and verifies the blockchain 
20:30:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, nfts are all over the place. Solana, ETH, the local landfill,
20:30:19 <dukenukem> I am an NFT.
20:31:14 <tel> Testnet and mainnet meaning?
20:32:24 <jwinterm[m]> testnet is for testing - the tokens are worthless
20:32:44 <jwinterm[m]> mainnet is for production - the tokens may be worth something
20:33:31 <mib[m]> dukenukem: where do you trade yourself?
20:34:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Tel, these questions are mostly for google
20:34:41 <dukenukem> mib[m]: Three blocks away from my grandmother, with a few mates made at the pub.
20:42:55 <vtnerd> yeah its a shame too because tari was potentially a good platform for doing tokens/stock/nft stuff
20:43:38 <vtnerd> but that may have been its downfall, it was being steered in a direction that was possibly just out-of-reach (thus vaporware, at least so far)
20:44:07 <vtnerd> mimblewimble+contracts+quick validation nodes had lots of moving parts
20:46:04 <tel> Monero-alternative for nft?
20:46:12 <mib[m]> <dukenukem> "mib: Three blocks away from my..." <- sounds good! i bid a beer then :)
20:46:26 <tel> So, we 3 friends running monerod node make a blockchain?
20:48:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yep
20:49:45 <tel> Monero-alternative for nft?
20:50:10 <tel> What does dark net peps use for messaging?
20:53:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Google
20:53:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is the wrong place for all of these general questions 
21:06:58 <jwinterm[m]> ofrnxmr: what is google tho?
21:07:18 <selsta> the tari mobile wallet is really nice
21:21:41 <jwinterm[m]> does it support yats tho selsta ?
21:21:58 <selsta> obviously it does
21:22:32 <jwinterm[m]> rly lol
21:22:34 <jwinterm[m]> I was just messin
21:29:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> The whole wallet address is emojis
21:29:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> 🎈🍅💍🍩🐶🔮🐮🌟🎧🍇💉🎭📷🎸👚🌙🔦📌🌙🔩😂💡🍒🌽🚂📉🌴🎪🗽🐴😇🎲🎰
21:29:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is my address 
21:30:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Just made a test wallet)
21:30:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Seems all nodes run over tor
21:30:08 <jwinterm[m]> I knew that, but didn't think they would spend dev time implementing yats that no one uses, since, you know......they've been on testnet for like 5 years
21:30:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who no mymonero app like this :(
21:31:59 <endogenic> eh?
21:34:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Tari app super polished. Mymonero.... could use a makeover
21:38:53 <endogenic> Yeah I wonder where that is :-)
21:39:06 <endogenic> Don't worry,
21:39:34 <endogenic> I've been fighting very hard ever since I left MyMonero, but I'm pretty close now.
21:39:51 <endogenic> I'm working virtually unsupported
21:40:10 <endogenic> meanwhile there's so many people pouring a huge amount of money into.....
21:41:57 <endogenic> I'm glad I was involved in this though, one way or the other, because I was able to start from the ground up and hopefully make some better choices
21:42:52 <endogenic> I think that in some senses part of the reason why I've been working mostly solo is if I did have just one or two more people then most of this stuff would happen very quickly
22:04:16 <plowsof> any reason youve not taken the CCS / MAGIC route? or p2pcrowd.fund?
22:09:31 <plowsof> you dont even have to write a well thought out proposal either, look at this one https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/savandra-videos-for-monero.html, if you said im endogenic, this is what ive done and now im doing this fund me thanks im sure people would be interested it getting it pushed forward for funding , if you put it up soon we're even having a meeting to talk about ccs ideas 
22:12:16 <plowsof> also people worried about MAGICs KYC - i believe majesticbank has offered to kyc on behalf of people? not sure exactly how,, im guessing like an employer on behalf of an employee type of thing 
22:14:05 <endogenic> yes multiple
22:14:10 <endogenic> it is an intentional choice
22:14:33 <endogenic> to show everyone the solution will come from someone like ne
22:14:48 <endogenic> but also last time i did a proposal i was threatened
22:14:58 <endogenic> so i took it down for a little while
22:15:24 <endogenic> i chose not to raise from ccs under mymonero
22:15:32 <endogenic> actually spent a lot FOR monero
22:15:35 <endogenic> gave a lot for it
22:15:37 <endogenic> lost people
22:15:38 <endogenic> so
22:15:51 <endogenic> it'll be nice if i can make it a couple weeks
22:15:58 <endogenic> i can raise then from anyone
22:16:16 <endogenic> i already could haha
22:16:45 <endogenic> i went into hiding for a while for the above reason
22:17:15 <endogenic> funny how privacy tech is a double edged sword
22:36:24 <piconerojeu[m]> Frens, non-frens and lurkers,... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f461704fcd5cef75ded4b726b4b10cd754f57036)
22:36:30 * piconerojeu[m] uploaded an image: (96KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/jMvWVwhtKaPcmTXmjcTvdGLt/piconeroj_merkato.png >
22:37:32 <monerobull[m]> Ahahah
22:37:41 <monerobull[m]> I love the 4chan style layout 
22:38:43 <piconerojeu[m]>  * Frens, non-frens and lurkers,... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/ff36945a4d99fe9dfabc4c98046dce9c41bc19bc)
22:38:56 <endogenic> wow work is done hahahah
22:38:58 <endogenic> love it
22:39:08 <piconerojeu[m]> * right now. Thanks!
22:41:43 <piconerojeu[m]> endogenic: Thanks, could you try creating a few ads without JS and with VPN?
22:42:21 <piconerojeu[m]> monerobull[m]: :D that was the most bare-bones look for a P2P marketplace I could think of!
23:43:44 <endogenic> plowsof:
23:43:50 <endogenic> i'll dm u