00:00:11 <monerobull[m]> Do you think anyone would be interested in a plug and play monero+p2pool node? The cheapest option would maybe cost ~180€ with more expensive ones up to 250
00:00:11 <monerobull[m]> All the user would have to do is plug it in and forward 1 port
00:20:26 <ted[m]> That sounds pretty neat
00:24:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> I could do that price and include a phone 
00:24:54 <monerobull[m]> Lol ok
00:24:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> What sort of device were you thinking of monerobull @monerobull:monero.social: 
00:25:03 <monerobull[m]> Rock pi 4
00:25:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds interesting 
00:25:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Im not in the hw business)
00:25:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Okok. Yeah that sounds solid
00:25:48 <monerobull[m]> This would be for non-technical people who never even heard of things like SSH
00:26:51 <monerobull[m]> I have one myself and the PiNodeXMR software is really solid once every is set up
00:27:05 <monerobull[m]> s/every/everything/
00:27:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bull, have you tried the termux node (android)? 
00:27:45 <monerobull[m]> I once built xmrig from source and mined on termux but i haven't run a node on it
00:28:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> I had thought of buying low priced android 7 devices + SD cards and doing the same. But said "too much work". 
00:28:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/nahuhh/android-termux-monero-node/releases/tag/master-beta
00:28:38 <monerobull[m]> SD cards also get chewed up by Blockchain stuff
00:28:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Flash storage is flash storage
00:29:05 <monerobull[m]> I think the pinode Dev said they last about a year 
00:29:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Write cycles depend on the sync mode used and the size of the card 
00:29:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Safe, for example, does more writes than fast:async
00:29:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> And a 512gb card can write 50gb twice as many times as a 256gb card 
00:30:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> But all flash storage is limited by write cycles 
00:30:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Which is why I recommend against using internal storage unless you dont care about eventually bricking the device)
00:30:41 * monerobull[m] uploaded an image: (44KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/cmREmwqvhRUbkmGgnEekvCau/A1741231z93VY9V3Vbbm7.jpg >
00:30:53 <monerobull[m]> This is what the most expensive node would look
00:31:00 <monerobull[m]> Like
00:31:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nice.
00:31:38 <monerobull[m]> Case isn't a necessity though 
00:34:29 <al800[m]1> You can probably get away using cheapo dram-less nvme drive
00:34:29 <al800[m]1> How much write per day you need for monero, probably really not that much
00:36:18 <monerobull[m]> Not much, thought about a cheap 30€ Samsung SSD
00:36:42 <al800[m]1> 2TB crappy Intel 660 should last 5 years if you write 400GB per day
00:37:05 <al800[m]1> so it should last forever in a monero node (until you get to fill it with XMR blockchain)
00:38:47 <monerobull[m]> I'd have to do some more research on the SSD, currently just probing for interest
00:39:35 <al800[m]1> s/660/670p/
00:41:45 <al800[m]1> Samsung 970 EVO 2TB have 1200TB endurance (so you can write like 6-700GB a day during 5 years. So expect 100 years for a more respectable 35GB per day). Will surely die for other thing than endurance before that.
00:42:32 <al800[m]1> monerobull[m]: Do, Endurance are nice now because good wear leveling algorithm and high capacity
00:43:27 <wheezybackports> Honestly any SSD larger than 500GB will do for a long time
00:44:04 <wheezybackports> I personally use a 1TB Western Digital blue SSD
00:46:11 <al800[m]1> I do have 1 WD Black Nvme, 1 HP EX950 NVME, and finally one Chia coin abused Samsung SM951 512GB (it's a 2016 drive, I began abusing it for Chia, stopped abusing it when usage was at 98%, about a year ago. Now using it for gaming, usage still 98% lol)
00:49:08 <al800[m]1> The only SSD that caused me real trouble is the Patriot Warp 2 I got a very long time ago (2008 era piece of crap)
00:49:48 <monerobull[m]> <wheezybackports> "Honestly any SSD larger than..." <- Even a 256gb will last a couple more years, it would be the default option to keep price as low as possible but more storage optionally available 
00:50:30 <al800[m]1> Should be 512GB imo
00:50:30 <al800[m]1> minimum, as you say, you want the node to last a couple of years without upgrading the default
00:51:09 <al800[m]1> You can get any shitty DRAM less SSD and pre-provision the blockchain in.
00:51:38 <al800[m]1> and put the OS in a 16GB SD card or something like that
00:51:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are we talking pruned or full?
00:51:44 <monerobull[m]> That's the plan, pre-synced nodes, ready to go
00:51:46 <monerobull[m]> Full
00:52:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pruned I think 256 is ok. But that a full should imo be > 2x the blockchain size if its going to be sold
00:52:48 <monerobull[m]> Yeah I guess you're right
00:53:13 <monerobull[m]> Would push it over 200€ though:/
00:53:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> So perhaps a cheaper option, pruned nodes, and a full node option 
00:53:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Full node option can come with a pruned node is so desired..
00:53:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> If* so
00:53:47 <monerobull[m]> Idk if i want to sell pruned nodes tbh
00:53:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why?
00:54:12 <monerobull[m]> They aren't as useful 
00:54:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> In what manner?
00:54:38 <al800[m]1> 480GB Crucial BX500 is like 45$ on amazon
00:54:39 <monerobull[m]> Aren't they worse for privacy since they need data from peers?
00:55:16 <al800[m]1> it's a crap drive for an OS but it will work just fine for a node (if it's pre-provisionned, else it will take more time to sync than a decent SSD)
00:55:35 <monerobull[m]> Needs to be nvme to work with the rockpi 
00:56:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pruned nodes sync full blocks and then prune them.
00:56:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> They are fully verifying nodes just like full nodes.
00:56:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you also enable sync-pruned-blocks then you will sync old blocks that have been verified by another pruned node.
00:56:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> New blocks (tip of chain) are always synced as full blocks. No reliance on any other node 
00:57:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> The issue is, if a full node is trying to sync blocks from a pruned node, it needs (at least) 7 other pruned nodes to build the full chain.
00:57:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> In theory, the network can run on 100% pruned nodes 
00:58:13 <monerobull[m]> Hm
00:58:15 <al800[m]1> monerobull[m]: Team Group MP33
00:58:27 <monerobull[m]> al800 @al800:0wnz.at: thoughts on the Western Digital SN550
00:58:32 <al800[m]1> https://www.newegg.com/team-group-mp33-512gb/p/N82E16820331416?quicklink=true
00:59:04 <Rucknium[m]> Note: Some people have suggested that the BTC network slowdown is due to low-performance Raspberry Pi BTC nodes:
00:59:04 <Rucknium[m]> https://blog.lopp.net/is-bitcoin-network-slowing-down/
00:59:08 <al800[m]1> Both are DRAM-less but the MP33 is cheaper
00:59:28 <monerobull[m]> > <@rucknium:monero.social> Note: Some people have suggested that the BTC network slowdown is due to low-performance Raspberry Pi BTC nodes:
00:59:28 <monerobull[m]> > https://blog.lopp.net/is-bitcoin-network-slowing-down/
00:59:28 <monerobull[m]> The rockpi is plenty quick
00:59:38 <monerobull[m]> Raspberries are slow af though 
01:00:34 <Rucknium[m]> I would recommend running the Seraphis performance tests on hardware that you plan to use:
01:00:34 <Rucknium[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/91
01:01:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@rucknium:monero.social> Note: Some people have suggested that the BTC network slowdown is due to low-performance Raspberry Pi BTC nodes:
01:01:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> > https://blog.lopp.net/is-bitcoin-network-slowing-down/
01:01:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium:  how about the # of nodes for the period last year vs this one. Isnt bitcoin like, flat
01:01:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> More users + same network = congestion 
01:01:56 <monerobull[m]> > <@rucknium:monero.social> I would recommend running the Seraphis performance tests on hardware that you plan to use:
01:01:57 <monerobull[m]> > https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/91
01:01:57 <monerobull[m]> I'll do that
01:01:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium:  the seraphis performance numbers are where I argue pruned nodes will be needed if we get a lot of volume 
01:02:47 <Rucknium[m]> ofrnxmr: Could you clarify your point? The BTC block size is the same last year and this year. Mempool may be a bit different, but some nodes choose not to keep mempool.
01:04:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> I remember reading last year that the number of full nodes on bitcoin was ~ 10k with 100k listening nodes
01:04:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> This year I read 10k full nodes with 150k listening nodes
01:04:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> 50% more listening nodes relying on the full nodes, isnt that a cause for sync slowdown?
01:04:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Im Asking, not telling )
01:05:31 <monerobull[m]> Thanks for the discussion, if you have anything else, comment on the reddit post, I'm going to sleep now :)
01:05:38 <Rucknium[m]> I've had to sync BCH and BTC nodes from genesis a few times recently. The BCH nodes seem to sync about 50% faster (up until August 2017). That could point to slow BTC network for initial block download.
01:06:06 <Rucknium[m]> >50% more listening nodes relying on the full nodes, isnt that a cause for sync slowdown? 
01:06:06 <Rucknium[m]> Could be, yes.
01:07:42 <Rucknium[m]> All I am saying to monerobull is "be careful". Make sure the plug-and-play nodes can keep up if transaction volume increases.
01:08:35 <monerobull[m]> Alright, thanks for the input :)
01:09:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Current requirements are under 25kbps
01:10:52 <Rucknium[m]> CPU verification of Monero transactions are much more computationally expensive than bitcoin transactions. That would be the bottleneck I would be concerned about. 
01:11:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes, I kept that in mind 
01:12:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> I timed how long it took to verify full blocks, vs how long it took to download them, and kept a padding room of 1 minute (dont want to always be 1 block behind)
01:12:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> On my slowest device*
08:17:39 <merope> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Rucknium:  the seraphis performa..." <- Pruned nodes still need to verify all the data, so the cpu requirements are the same. Pruning only affects storage space requirements. You verify the whole tx, then discard some of the data before writing to disk
08:20:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Pruned nodes sync full blocks and then prune them.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/81a871a73b5228bbd9a91e3a707ebc7d9dfc4432)
10:07:02 <selsta> Pruning also allows you to use less bandwidth during sync when using --sync-pruned-nodes, though I don't know how much bandwidth gets saved and how it exactly works.
10:07:16 <selsta> --sync-pruned-blocks
10:48:40 <plowsof> meeting today in ~5 hours , ill remind an hour before again as its at a weird time / day, and update any last minute ccs proposal ideas, Monero Moon has just posted theirs for example  https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/723
10:49:56 <plowsof> luigi making us work on weekends , cruel :'(
11:05:23 <dartian[m]> <plowsof> "luigi making us work on weekends..." <- cruel, but fair
11:06:54 <dartian[m]> this song is the nature of us, with a needed turnabout in outcome
11:06:54 <dartian[m]> https://youtu.be/wsEwK69LXjQ
11:08:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rage against the machine 
11:11:41 <dartian[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: my favorite lyrics are "shake your hands and march around, but don't take what you need"
11:11:41 <dartian[m]> with monero, you grasp our future
11:14:40 <dartian[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Rage against the machine..." <- I see a mad face. yeah they putz up. but they literally tried to do something real no other band has.
11:14:40 <dartian[m]> they put a free show on at the height of their fame just to give people a chance to toss themselves upon the wheels, upon the gears, upon all the aparatus to make the machine stop
11:14:40 <dartian[m]> https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/rage-against-the-machine-democratic-national-convention/
11:17:17 <dartian[m]> * I see a mad face. yeah they putz up. but they literally tried to do something real no other band has.
11:17:17 <dartian[m]> they put a free show on at the height of their fame just to give people a chance to toss themselves upon the wheels, upon the gears, upon the levers, upon all the aparatus to make the machine stop
11:17:17 <dartian[m]> https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/rage-against-the-machine-democratic-national-convention/
11:20:11 <dartian[m]> and what do you bring to the table IRS: 
11:22:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Careful Martian, they are on IRC
16:00:35 <luigi1112> greetings
16:00:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Greetings
16:01:05 <dukenukem> Salutations.
16:01:08 <plowsof> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/723
16:01:09 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests
16:01:10 <Rucknium[m]> Hi
16:01:12 <plowsof> hi meeting time
16:01:28 <luigi1112> my goal is to merge or close 80% of these by the time we're done here
16:01:31 <luigi1112> :)
16:01:57 <hinto[m]> hi
16:02:05 <plowsof> am i the Unknown moderator?
16:02:39 <luigi1112> moderate away. I don't know what else you want to talk about, if anything.
16:04:47 <plowsof> ETH<->XMR swaps thing was closed already as its funded by MAGIC .. 1st step toward the goal
16:05:17 <plowsof> right slets just get some community highlights and jump into the ccs ideas 
16:05:33 <plowsof> 3. Community highlights    
16:05:38 <plowsof> also can someone ban luigi for interrupting  my meeting 
16:06:04 <plowsof> thanks
16:06:05 <plowsof> [MineXMR closing August 13th](https://minexmr.com/) 
16:06:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Minexmr closing on the 12th* which is imo not good for hashrate during the 720blocks after readjustment
16:06:53 <Rucknium[m]> plowsof: ETH<>XMR atomic swaps are not yet funded by MAGIC. The status is: in discussions to have a fundraising campaign for it.
16:06:57 <luigi1112> glhf
16:07:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1GH yesterday, 989mh today
16:07:13 <plowsof> thanks for clarifying
16:07:14 <kayabaNerve> Hello
16:07:54 <plowsof> more info on magic here -> [MAGIC grants](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/w5g49a/before_opening_a_ccs_proposal_check_to_see_if_a/) 
16:08:02 <kayabaNerve> Can confirm what Rucknium[m] said, with the distinction it is moving forward at this time and not an equal possibility ("discussions")
16:08:34 <jwinterm[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: oh I thought you were saying p2pool had 1 GH and I was like, "no way"
16:08:47 <plowsof> also if we didn't know its actually donation week, funded by MajesticBank (ends this sunday) [MajesticBank Donation week](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/w82bl3/donation_week_use_majesticbank_and_help_fund/)
16:09:57 <plowsof> i wanted to put up some donation pages for devs/contributors in need of hardware (as i thought this would be an easy goal to fund) and only 2 reached out to me (1 does not wish to go public with it) more info @ p2pcrowd.fund 
16:10:19 <aremor[m]> MAGIC is a 3rd party?
16:10:41 <jwinterm[m]> MAGIC is US-based non-profit organization
16:10:42 <dukenukem> aremor[m]: https://magicgrants.org/
16:10:59 <jwinterm[m]> but, who is first party anyway?
16:11:12 <plowsof> who is 2nd?
16:11:32 <dukenukem> 49 minutes left, funny fellas.
16:12:14 <plowsof> 5. [CCS updates](https://ccs.getmonero.org/) 
16:12:40 <plowsof> a. [[monero-bash] continued development (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/333)    
16:12:44 <aremor[m]> So my point is, it’s a centralized 3rd party that is processing payments. So there’s tax implications?
16:13:00 <plowsof> hinto is the proposer, and has already completed 1 previous ccs  
16:13:13 <luigi1112> yes you get tax deductions I think
16:13:44 <jwinterm[m]> aremor[m]: MAGIC is favorable for donors compared to CCS, at least in the USA
16:13:51 <Rucknium[m]> aremor: Yes. The tax implication is that any donors who have U.S. tax obligations get a tax credit for donation to a nonprofit. It's the opposite of what you're guessing.
16:13:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Re monwrobash
16:13:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1.0 stops working and 2.0 doesnt exist without ccs?
16:14:35 <plowsof> i think p2pool related proposals are more relevant now considering the minexmr closing down news
16:14:40 <hinto[m]> ofrnxmr: v1.x.x versions will still work
16:14:58 <hinto[m]> although i will stop maintaining them
16:15:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why the increase in rate?
16:15:17 <aremor[m]> Rucknium: sorry if I’m getting in the way.  But what’s the implications for the developer? There will be a W4 filed for them? 
16:16:16 <plowsof> my positive input for hintos last ccs proposal was that after being funded he completed the work quickly, and continued working on it (judging by his github commits) 
16:16:29 <hinto[m]> continuing to maintain it turned out to be a lot more work than I first thought
16:17:04 <hinto[m]> i also think my first ccs price might have set a precedent for small requests for funding
16:17:21 <hinto[m]> compared to other proposals i think it's an ok price :D
16:17:41 <Rucknium[m]> aremor: jwinterm knows the details.
16:18:01 <luigi1112> you don't say how many hours you think it'll take though?
16:18:07 <plowsof> too soon to reach a consensus on this proposal? 
16:18:35 <hinto[m]> it'll take max the duration of the ccs so 3 months
16:18:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> To do what?
16:19:28 <jwinterm[m]> aremor[m]: I think we would normally do 1099 but tbh I'm not 100% off hand
16:19:29 <luigi1112> 3months of work or a few hours of work over 3 months
16:19:49 <hinto[m]> ofrnxmr: everything listed in the milestones
16:20:16 <plowsof> specify exact hours / hourly rate and we can re-evaluate? 
16:20:36 <hinto[m]> luigi1112: pretty much constant work until it's finished and then continued maintenance when needed 
16:20:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> That doesnt seem like 3 months if work
16:21:15 <luigi1112> well it's also not 3 months of pay
16:21:24 <luigi1112> 10xmr/mo
16:22:15 <aremor[m]> jwinterm: ok. Devs shouldn’t probably be properly informed because they accept proposals on MAGIC. But potential implications. Full US taxes might be up to 40% depending on tax bracket and lots of other things 
16:22:28 <luigi1112> anyway it has no votes or comments so I'm not going to do anything with it presently
16:22:33 <v1docq47[m]> Hi all, sorry to late!
16:22:51 <plowsof> consensus: specify hours / hourly rate - generate some feedback (votes/comments) ? 
16:23:01 <luigi1112> I'd like to start from the bottom if we can. Afghan thing
16:23:05 <luigi1112> close it?
16:23:08 <plowsof> ok
16:23:14 <plowsof> spirobels afghan proposal 
16:23:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hours per item would be nice.
16:23:19 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/282
16:23:23 <luigi1112> ofrnxmr[m] agreed
16:23:24 <hinto[m]> ok, will edit the ccs
16:23:28 <luigi1112> even just rough estimates
16:23:28 <luigi1112> thanks
16:23:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close it - spirobel
16:23:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Missed every meeting
16:24:13 <luigi1112> great
16:25:03 <luigi1112> done. Translations....
16:25:16 <luigi1112> I still do not like tr ccses much at all
16:25:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof:  there was an issue in monero transaltions group
16:25:36 <luigi1112> 296 and 335
16:25:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im notnsure thebdetails.. I think mj and his referral?
16:25:49 <jwinterm[m]> aremor[m]: Afaik the money going to the developer would be treated as income whether it came from magic as a payment for 1099 contracting or from ccs without any formal contact
16:26:13 <jwinterm[m]> But it is beneficial from donor perspective 
16:26:14 <luigi1112> :+1:
16:26:50 <plowsof> which one is 335 sec
16:27:02 <plowsof> spanish tr
16:27:03 <luigi1112> new spanish one now that he got paid for last one
16:28:46 <plowsof> i have no idea about this proposal, im only aware of a shortage of translators to verify the work of translators... and yes ofrnxmr there is another tr proposal brewing for greek / korean 
16:29:10 <luigi1112> there is an existing one for greek, though IDK the overlap
16:29:20 <luigi1112> they come up with a crazy amount of material to translate
16:29:52 <luigi1112> but yeah the difficulty reviewing and the fact that it's basically volunteer work makes the whole thing almost unworkable
16:30:04 <plowsof> close the old greek one my vote 
16:30:09 <luigi1112> we brought on a "tr coordinator" but then he was afk a long time
16:30:17 <jwinterm[m]> Should just establish a practice of only supporting Esperanto, no English available even
16:30:27 <jwinterm[m]> Obvs
16:30:34 <luigi1112> I'm kinda of the mind to disallow any translation CCSes pending redesign
16:30:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive have no useful comments on tl.
16:30:58 <plowsof> +1 for dissalow further tr proposals pending redesign 
16:31:01 <luigi1112> jwinterm[m] can you be coordinator?
16:31:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well, id agree with that
16:31:21 <luigi1112> any others?
16:31:39 <chesterfield[m]> Shoutout to Google translate for helping me through all these translation ccs’s
16:31:45 <luigi1112> just a small edit to the "how to" ccs page and smooth sailing
16:31:45 <plowsof> the tr coordinator netrik182 himself says that translations are meant to be freefly submitted by the members of the community via weblate 
16:32:04 <dukenukem> Disallow & closing 296 & 335 with the edit in the how to page, my two mili piconeros.
16:33:14 <luigi1112> ah it's what is ccs page
16:34:13 <plowsof> next one luigi?
16:34:58 <hinto[m]> plowsof: i think the general lack of reviewers makes it very slow
16:35:12 <plowsof> indeed
16:35:22 <hinto[m]> i submitted some translation via weblate many months ago that i don't think have been touched
16:35:47 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-front/-/merge_requests/35
16:35:48 <luigi1112> ok
16:35:54 <hinto[m]> bulk translation via a ccs might be easier to process, but idk
16:35:58 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/310
16:36:30 <plowsof> patronero was discussed in a prev meeting - rucknium suggested the totel cost of funding the ccs would be more than it would ever raise for donators
16:36:40 <plowsof> and not much activity in the comments there.. i vote close 
16:37:17 <plowsof> total*
16:37:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> What is difference between this, bash, Seth docker, termux node?
16:37:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Except for price 
16:37:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Seconded 
16:37:57 <plowsof> its been 3 months since any comment on that one , rip
16:38:54 <v1docq47[m]> I want to say in my defense that I have not only translations, we also do voice over for videos and transcripts of all speeches from monero conf and we support the work xmr.ru for 5 years already
16:39:58 <luigi1112> internet folks are here so I might lose connection for a bit
16:40:14 <luigi1112> v1 is an old timer for sure
16:40:16 <plowsof> :(
16:40:22 <luigi1112> bit unique
16:41:14 <luigi1112> I don't have any insight into whether what he's doing is of value or not, but he's certainly been doing it a long time drama free
16:41:34 <luigi1112> s/of value/worth the cost
16:42:12 <hinto[m]> ofrnxmr: patronero seems like a more beginner friendly 1-click solution to p2pool mining
16:42:31 <hinto[m]> although the author has been MIA for a while
16:43:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is there any reason v1 ccs is urgent ATM? I know its scheduled to he started in august. but can it wait?
16:43:28 <luigi1112> ok we are down to 9 (7 after the 2 tr ccs)
16:43:37 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/323
16:43:38 <plowsof> SeedSigner - great concept, why wouldnt we want it,  hourly rates are a bit sus imo though , and the feasibility of obtaining the hardware for the quoted price 
16:43:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Termux node has p2pool, onion stratum user friendly setups.
16:43:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe I should up my price significantly 
16:44:12 <dukenukem> plowsof: They said they'd come up with a beta release but no update since, as highlighted by last hinto[m]
16:44:32 <v1docq47[m]> I have problems with publishing reports on reddit
16:44:41 <dukenukem> unless I misunderstood something.
16:44:43 <plowsof> id like to see a proof of concept showing data rate transfer speeds on the hardware he intends on using via qrcode / cameras
16:44:54 <v1docq47[m]> reddit stubbornly blocks my reports, I tried to contact the moderators and they confirmed that it is reddit that blocks all reports and links :(
16:45:29 <plowsof> i vote close then on seedsigner until he comes back with a beta PoC thanks dukenuken didnt see 
16:45:40 <dukenukem> np. Second the sentiment.
16:46:04 <v1docq47[m]> yes of course i can wait for august
16:46:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Third
16:46:46 <hinto[m]> agreed, cool concept but author disappeared
16:46:46 <plowsof> Garlix .io - the devs/creators themseves said here on matrix that they would close that proposal because things such as hotshop exist (the web wallet point of sail thing for monero) 
16:47:12 <plowsof> sail->sale 
16:47:19 <luigi1112> plowsof can you comment sometime with that sentiment?
16:47:28 <luigi1112> oh you voted close
16:47:29 <luigi1112> ok
16:47:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close
16:47:50 <luigi1112> will give it a day or so since hinto just asked 2hrs ago
16:47:54 <Rucknium[m]> Something like SeedSigner (or Monerujo's Sidekick) seems useful since users rely too much on Ledger and Trezor updates when we hard fork. But yes I would like more proof of feasibility before pushing it to funding.
16:48:11 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/324
16:48:14 <luigi1112> garlix!
16:48:25 <plowsof> close vote for garlix
16:49:02 <dukenukem> +1
16:49:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Definitely 
16:49:58 <plowsof> Selstas new ccs - +1 merge 
16:50:05 <sgp_> plowsof: you are now a mod of this channel, congrats 🎉
16:50:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merge 
16:50:49 <Rucknium[m]> +1 merge to selsta's CCS
16:50:54 <aremor[m]> jwinterm: your point makes sense but there is a difference.  The difference is your personally identifiable information has to be shared with additional groups which means it’s possible for it to leak easier.  The Twitter leak for 54 million people this past week is an example.  Centralized groups are notoriously not good as safeguarding private information 
16:51:33 <sgp[m]> vote no on garlix
16:51:56 <plowsof> monero moon - i gave a thumbs down simply because his rates are double that of monero observers 
16:53:09 <plowsof> i already think MO should ask for more, but this just seems unfair 
16:53:19 <luigi1112> selsta's will get merged after the appropriate period
16:54:17 <jwinterm[m]> I suppose that is true aremor: 
16:54:18 <plowsof> we need to talk about solopts merge request , this is important 
16:54:28 <luigi1112> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/334
16:54:30 <luigi1112> yep
16:55:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, no
16:55:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Solo opt. Split milestones. No
16:55:33 <plowsof> in my opinion, if you sign up for a ccs As a team , with milestones to pay out as a team, then , you can't just complete your part and get paid out, you must get your team mate over the finish line 
16:55:49 <plowsof> you then have an excuse to abandon it, because hey, you're paid.. not your problem anymore
16:56:17 <plowsof> not a good precedent to set either modifying milestones after being funded 
16:56:20 <sgp[m]> what is the context on this one?
16:56:35 <plowsof> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/334
16:56:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> And he already banked money to attend meeting and count hours 
16:57:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dishonest at its best
16:57:00 <plowsof> mj has completed part of the work for some milestones so he wants to extract his pay out of them (these milestones where a team effort)
16:57:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> No.
16:57:18 <plowsof> his team mate is not yet finished with their tasks
16:57:54 <xmrfn> "Split milestones 3 & 4 into (3.1+3.2) & (4.1+4.2) for individual devs" -- wait, what? No, you do not unilaterally alter the terms of the contract. That's the opposite of why we have contracts.
16:58:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Originally he was supposed to oversee endor and ensure the work was completed 
16:58:19 <plowsof> i vote no - milestones are 'set in stone' - complete it as a whole to receive payment 
16:58:29 <jwinterm[m]> I think that makes sense
16:59:00 <xmrack[m]> I vote nay
16:59:13 <xmrfn> FWIW I concur. Milestones exist precisely to be as objective as possible binary yes-or-no, you made it and got paid.
16:59:33 <Rucknium[m]> mj sort of set this CCS up as an opportunity to mentor endor, i.e. increase overall skill level among Monero devs/community members. The splitting of payouts is not consistent with the mentoring idea.
17:00:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> I vote, any more of this nonsense the ccs is cancelled and funds forfeit 
17:01:11 <luigi1112> my logic was basically mj wants to be paid and endor doesn't seem to care, therefore leaving them together makes the milestone more likely to be completed in a reasonable time
17:01:22 <luigi1112> logic for leaving them linked
17:01:43 <plowsof> yep, get your team mate over the finish line or you get nothing 
17:01:43 <sgp[m]> I am not familiar with this specific proposal really, but I definitely feel somewhat for the person who does work and then can't get paid if their teammate didn't do anything. But still, it's not really fair to just pay for a partial proposal for nothing to come of it
17:02:56 <luigi1112> sgp[m] his argument is they are sort of doing parallel work and so "something" comes of it even if only one part is completed, I think
17:03:29 <sgp[m]> even so.... that's not really a healthy situation to put you in
17:03:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> The originally ccs says
17:03:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should Endor not make it until the deadline, I guarantee, that I will finalize the project by myself until the coming winter.
17:03:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> No splitting.
17:04:02 <luigi1112> my preference would be they figure it out amongst themselves
17:05:04 <sgp[m]> agree
17:05:32 <plowsof> to clarify, we did not vote to remove xmr.ru's proposal - infact we did not have time to discuss it , unless?
17:06:05 <plowsof> this is to be treated as not a generic transslations proposal, as the proposor is a long time serving member 
17:06:23 <plowsof> video translations / community etc
17:07:26 <plowsof> leave it up longer to generate some more interaction / feedback?
17:07:43 <hinto[m]> +1 for v1, translation work is hard + finding long-time translators is even harder
17:08:08 <v1docq47[m]> most of my translations are focused on Monero research papers
17:08:13 <v1docq47[m]> https://github.com/v1docq47/monero-research-lab-translations/tree/main/publications
17:08:29 <luigi1112> need some more engagement on that regardless
17:08:41 <luigi1112> some of the lack is probably just from being a long timer
17:08:55 <luigi1112> anyway we are over 1hr, and we got quite a lot done
17:09:11 <plowsof> yeah we're not talking about this proposal when we say 'no translations' (just to clarify) 
17:09:14 <xmrack[m]> I think at this particular moment in history having a good source of Monero information in the native russian language could be very helpful to the project.
17:09:16 <luigi1112> 2 are sub 1d so don't matter
17:09:28 <luigi1112> the rest all have clear directives on what to do, with possible exception of v1
17:09:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Did we make 80%
17:09:58 <luigi1112> if we go with 9 instead of 11 to account for the 2 new ones, we are very close :)
17:10:11 <luigi1112> (considering closing the two tr ccses)
17:10:29 <plowsof> i give us a 9/10 , well done everyone 
17:10:47 <xmrfn> @xmrack I'd help fund expedited alternate Russian translation FWIW
17:10:56 <dukenukem> We did it, Reddit! 🥳
17:11:00 <luigi1112> seedsigner we'll give a day or so, then close, hinto is going to update with hour estimation
17:11:10 <plowsof> poggers
17:11:24 <luigi1112> that's 4/5 of the remainder (not counting selsta and foss again)
17:11:43 <plowsof> fyi selsta will be home shortly thats why he wasnt here
17:11:46 <netrik182> I'm late
17:11:54 <netrik182> Sorry, confused the meeting time 
17:12:35 <hinto[m]> sgp: very unrelated but will monero meet continue? or maybe starting breaking monero s2 with Rucknium :D ?
17:16:09 <netrik182> luigi1112 I agree with not having for tr ccses until we come up with a better system
17:16:37 <netrik182> s/for/more/
17:17:18 <netrik182> There are too much opportunistic submissions and lack of volunteers 
17:17:54 <luigi1112> thanks netrik182 
17:17:56 <netrik182> As someone mentioned earlier, I'm personally in favor of translations being submitted organically 
17:18:19 <netrik182> As volunteer work. 
17:19:22 <netrik182> We successfully managed to close the Spanish one with exceptions which was pending for 1 year
17:20:29 <xmrfn> Maybe we get volunteers with awesome swag more than XMR? Bragging rights? Exclusive Tshirts, social media badges, basically you brought XMR to the World *AND WE THANK YOU*
17:20:34 <netrik182> The German one from wobole will be reviewed by a trusted contributor but wobole themselves is not reachable 
17:20:52 <netrik182> I tried contacting them without success 
17:22:25 <netrik182> That's the last tr ccs still in progress iirc
17:23:50 <netrik182> I can PR a rephrased version of CCS instructions about translations not being allowed for now luigi1112 
17:25:05 <luigi1112> netrik182 I did already but it's pretty basic. Feel free to propose something better.
17:26:01 <netrik182> Will do
17:32:33 <plowsof> thnx everyone for attending, have a nice weekend 
17:32:52 <dukenukem> Likewise.
17:35:24 <netrik182> Thanks plowsof for organizing it and sorry again I was late
17:37:58 <aremor[m]> I enjoyed my first meeting very much.  Thanks so much jwinterm and Rucknium for engaging with me 
17:55:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thanks luigi1112: and plowsof: 
17:58:47 <tel> Is nft safe?
18:08:58 <luigi1112> very safe
18:13:20 <piconerojeu[m]> Piconero.eu now has tripcodes and secure tripcodes for buying and selling. Tor and VPN posting is also enabled. 
18:13:34 <piconerojeu[m]> s/Piconero/Piconeroj/
18:39:52 <piconerojeu[m]> @all Do you have any suggestions on how to make it more known among xmr uusers?
18:40:23 <piconerojeu[m]> I am a strong fan of Agorism, and XMR appears to be very useful for that.
18:40:43 <tel> I'm tension free with monero. Is there trustworthy nft blockchain software?
18:40:46 <tel> And a wallet
18:40:55 <piconerojeu[m]> Some in the reddit crowd might be interested me thinks.
18:40:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thee is an agorism group iirc
18:45:42 <piconerojeu[m]> That is cool. I will advertise the site there as well.
18:47:06 <aremor[m]> <piconerojeu[m]> "Some in the reddit crowd might..." <- Yeah both /monero and /moneromarket
18:48:29 <tel> Is status.im trustworthy?
18:53:34 <piconerojeu[m]> <aremor[m]> "Yeah both /monero and /moneromar..." <- Good idea. 
18:53:40 <piconerojeu[m]> Can someone here with a reddit account please kindly make a post about piconeroj.eu over there? 
18:53:43 <piconerojeu[m]> Thank you!
19:09:16 <merope> <luigi1112> "my logic was basically mj..." <- fwiw it's not that I don't care, I'm just handling some personal stuff that's causing some delays on my part that affects mj's work too - but I am still working on the project and intend to finish my part of the work as well
19:35:35 <r4v3r23[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Thee is an agorism group iirc" <- it sucks
20:21:56 * piconerojeu[m] uploaded an image: (299KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/ntgsQaACMHPjxSQNEekfruOv/hmmm.png >
20:22:37 <piconerojeu[m]> This is what happened after i announced piconeroj.eu
20:30:32 <ct[m]> what did you expect?
20:30:56 <ct[m]> you or maybe someone else asked on "break the site"
20:39:00 <piconerojeu[m]> It was me who asked everyone to break the site.
20:39:11 <piconerojeu[m]> I meant breaking in the techincal way instead of Le 4Chin way
20:39:23 <piconerojeu[m]> For now, new Ads would require manual vetting.
20:42:55 <mib[m]> piconerojeu[m]: That's not gonna scale, at least not if you plan on moderating it alone. 
20:44:39 <piconerojeu[m]> mib[m]: True. Do you have any suggestions on what to do about it?