00:03:29 <TrasherDK[m]> <spacekitty420[m4> "when both haveno and serai out..." <- And here I thought Monero was censorship resistant. How would you go about forcing any exchange to delist XMR?
00:06:55 <TrasherDK[m]> <plowsof> "localmonero = binance + 10..." <- It only when buying it's +10%. When selling it's -10% 🤪🤣
00:08:53 <aremor[m]> <TrasherDK[m]> "And here I thought Monero was..." <- They didn’t say who. Maybe the government does it 
00:09:38 <TrasherDK[m]> What government? All of them?
00:10:29 <aremor[m]> TrasherDK[m]: Take your pick 
00:11:30 <TrasherDK[m]> That fell flat quickly 🙂 
00:12:16 <aremor[m]> TrasherDK[m]: I’m glad 
00:13:13 <aremor[m]> The statement was fairly self explanatory
00:13:16 <TrasherDK[m]> Still waiting `What government? All of them?`
00:15:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> USA and Canada = no legal xmr 
00:15:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Edit.. forgot kraken
00:16:34 <TrasherDK[m]> The idea that XMR could be delisted from all CEX is in itself ridiculous.
00:16:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Binance.com not allowed in USA
00:17:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Binance.us = no xmr
00:17:13 <aremor[m]> TrasherDK[m]: They didn’t say all 
00:17:20 * TrasherDK[m] uploaded an image: (2KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/monero.social/ZneFnKUrNmAWKDzatANiovsB/image.png >
00:17:29 <aremor[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Thank you!!! This is already the case today 
00:17:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kucoin isnt either, but they just dont respond to requests 
00:18:49 <TrasherDK[m]> Is binance still a thing?
00:19:12 <aremor[m]> Troll alert
00:19:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its still the number 1 exchsnge in the world by a large margin 
00:19:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> A very large margin 
00:19:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like 5-10x as large as #2
00:20:13 <TrasherDK[m]> I wouldn't know. Too much shadiness going on, so never visited.
00:20:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> And top 4 cex own something like 70% of the eth supply 
00:21:32 <TrasherDK[m]> Ah, yes. The web3 dumpsterfire shitshow. Another area I stay well clear of.
00:33:02 <RavFX[m]> Web3 only in masketing so it make the dumpsterfire smell better
00:33:13 <RavFX[m]> s/masketing/marketing/
01:04:59 <jwinterm> ofrnxmr[m]: tradeogre and others like kucoin do not block usa users
01:05:17 <jwinterm> also, think it's more like 5% not 70% re: eth
01:05:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> I was looking for the chart I saw 
01:05:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Might be 70% if staked eth 
01:06:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> And tradeogre and kucoin, correct. They dont. But they operate illegally
01:07:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well... citizens arent legally allowed to use em, and legally kc, and tradeogre is supposed to follow certain laws to offer services to citizens of specific States
01:07:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> And pay fees to be a part of certain regulatory panels etc 
01:07:56 <jwinterm> https://www.coincarp.com/currencies/ethereum/richlist/
01:08:10 <jwinterm> I would say quasi-legallly
01:08:16 <jwinterm> not strictly illegally
01:08:32 <jwinterm> I know the guy who owns dead exchange at freebitcoins.com
01:08:36 <jwinterm> which also lists monero
01:09:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> jwinterm: Depends where 
01:09:13 <jwinterm> and he said that he believes that, according to his lawyer, there is room for interpretation on these things
01:09:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> New York and Texas, definitely illegal 
01:09:34 <jwinterm> and speaking from experience, there is no definite laws about anything wrt cryptocurrency or NFTs in the usa
01:09:38 <jwinterm> it's all murk
01:10:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> You cant offer services in a state that specifically has laws against the servuce 
01:10:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or or the tokens  
01:10:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://coingeek.com/kucoin-exchange-banned-in-canada-over-regulatory-violations/
01:11:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> ", with some of the casualties including major exchanges such as Binance, Poloniex, OKEx, and Bitfinex. It first announced actions against KuCoin and Bybit in June last year and has been going after them since then."
01:13:15 <nioc> I am not a cex  
01:13:24 <nioc> I am therefore setting the price  
01:13:29 <nioc> 1xmr = $723.18
01:13:36 <nioc> get them while they last
01:14:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Beautiful 
01:15:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, I think 700 is a good best market starting point 
01:15:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bear
01:40:33 <spackle_xmr[m]> I saw a comment about network traffic and decided to check my node:
01:40:33 <spackle_xmr[m]> Received 31524862939 bytes (29.36 GB) in 13881481 packets in 3.6 days, average 99.12 kB/s = 0.60% of the limit of 16.00 MB/s
01:40:33 <spackle_xmr[m]> Sent 720639902968 bytes (671.15 GB) in 17053574 packets in 3.6 days, average 2.21 MB/s = 13.83% of the limit of 16.00 MB/s
01:40:35 <spackle_xmr[m]> I don't know how unusual that is, but it seems that the network has been getting some attention.
01:41:26 <selsta> do you have public rpc enabled?
01:49:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Avg 2.2 mb/s 👀
01:49:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> How many incoming connections do you have? 
01:53:30 <spackle_xmr[m]> For connections: about 100 in right now. I think it got up to 130 or so when I checked it a bit ago.
01:54:21 <spackle_xmr[m]> rpc should be fully enabled, need to check.
01:55:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not sure, but perhaps selsta was asking if the public-node flag was enabled
01:56:17 <selsta> I assume it is that high due to public rpc.
01:56:41 <selsta> mine have similar traffic
01:57:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pre fork, rino was counting ~ 50% of nodes were updated.
01:57:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> If they were nodes that had incoming connections open, when they went offline, traffic was redirected to other nodes who have incoming connections open 
02:00:28 <selsta> would make sense, I lost about half of my connections on fork and have more incoming now
02:04:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://community.rino.io/network/
02:05:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> The number of "not ready" increased LoL
02:20:44 <spackle_xmr[m]> Yep, public rpc. I don't have a data cap and I'm glad to see it being used. I think when I initially set everything up a few months back it was sending about 80 GB per day, but I'm not sure if I remember that correctly.
05:05:34 <spacekitty420[m4> <TrasherDK[m]> "And here I thought Monero was..." <- idk, maybe if there s a consensus in the community about it and then that selsta asks them nicely maybe they would, cant know for sure that it wouldnt work if didnt at least give it a try...
05:10:20 <aremor[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "", with some of the casualties..." <- Bullish. Very bullish. Now folks can get their head out of their asses and start using the coin how it’s supposed to be used. Do business with it and stop f’ing around on exchanges 
05:13:27 <aremor[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Might be 70% if staked eth..." <- Yeah POS is going to be a complete shitshow 
05:16:10 <spacekitty420[m4> is there even a date that wont be pushed back yet again? i mean, there used to be an official date for eth PoS and that was november 2017 like actually 5 fucking years ago 😹
05:19:18 <aremor[m]> Did hash fall on Sunday when old version stopped being recognized?
05:19:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fluffy called vitalik out 5 years ago for being a scammer 🚮
05:19:34 <aremor[m]> I’m curious to know if there were botnets that couldn’t be updated
05:19:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
05:20:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lost a few pools, some still down, some had issues and were back up in hrs
05:20:09 <spacekitty420[m4> aremor[m]: a lil bit yeah, p2pool also lost about 100 miners apparently
05:45:52 <DataHoarder> Yep p2pool saw hashrate drop but just after a major increase larger than before
05:46:12 <DataHoarder> ”lost” window miners as hashrate increased, so less appear per-window
05:56:24 <monerobull[m]> Eth PoS will start the next bear run
05:56:48 <monerobull[m]> People have no idea that it won't change anything about the fees
05:57:48 <spacekitty420[m4> did they kept idea of decreasing total supply through fees being burned?
05:57:51 <monerobull[m]> So many think merge=sharding and 2 cent fees
06:26:28 <nikg83[m]> Does so many recent inputs selected as decoys, makes it much easier for ciphertrace to track txs? As they just need to own a high percentage of recent transactions
06:45:56 <spacekitty420[m4> if ciphertrace actually owns majority of recent transactions then tbh, monero would be an actual shitcoin that literally no one even use cause that tx count from yesterday is pretty fucking low (20k)
06:46:54 <spacekitty420[m4> like, mastercard literally can do more than twice that is a single second of what monero did in a whole 24 hours
06:47:08 <spacekitty420[m4> s/is/in/
07:06:03 <sech1> mastercard banned a whole country recently, no thanks
07:21:11 <nikg83[m]> <spacekitty420[m4> "if ciphertrace actually owns..." <- Who knows ? 
07:22:43 <spackle_xmr[m]> Ciphertrace originally announced their 'tool' roughly 2 years ago, and literally nothing has ever come from it.
07:22:43 <spackle_xmr[m]> There has never been a legal action taken in any jurisdiction on the planet as a result of tracing a Monero transaction. No warrants issued, arrests made, depositions taken... nothing. I welcome correction on this point if anyone can provide credible evidence.
07:28:06 <spacekitty420[m4> nah, sounds correct, ciphertrace been pretty much just full of shit so far
07:28:40 <spacekitty420[m4> but they gotta keep the ruse to keep getting fundings so... 😹
07:33:57 <nikg83[m]> > <@spackle_xmr:matrix.org> Ciphertrace originally announced their 'tool' roughly 2 years ago, and literally nothing has ever come from it.
07:33:57 <nikg83[m]> > There has never been a legal action taken in any jurisdiction on the planet as a result of tracing a Monero transaction. No warrants issued, arrests made, depositions taken... nothing. I welcome correction on this point if anyone can provide credible evidence.
07:33:57 <nikg83[m]> Ignore ciphertrace, just high percentage of decoys from recent outputs is dangerous 
07:35:40 <sech1> no it's not
07:36:09 <sech1> decoy selection algorithm was tuned like this to mimic real spending patterns
07:36:18 <sech1> there's a lot of research that went into it
07:36:55 <nikg83[m]> sech1: What if some entity already owns 50-60 percentage of recent transactions? 
07:37:50 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Mimic, but they can filter good number of their own txs?
07:37:52 <merope> That's not enough to mount a significant attack of decoy deanonymization
07:37:57 <sech1> then they'd know that 8 of 16 decoys are fake
07:38:06 <sech1> not enough
07:38:54 <nikg83[m]> merope: Enough to lower the ring size effectiveness? Increasing their probability?
07:39:01 <merope> Crap, the paper is not on moneroresearch
07:39:49 <merope> nikg83[m]: Of course that would *lower* it, but it would still leave the true spend protected
07:40:33 <merope> There's a paper about this - in order to deanonymize a significant number of transactions, they would need to own 90%+ of all outputs
07:41:50 <sech1> and that paper was written when the ring size was 11
07:41:55 <nikg83[m]> merope: If I am moving 2 old inputs which are marked, in a single tx ; won’t it be spotted easily ? 
07:42:57 <merope> There's actually a nice plot showing what % of all decoys they need to own in order to deanonymize 50% of all transactions, iirc
07:43:01 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Yes, but that was before we did this recent change to decoy selection which now makes the % higher for recent inputs 
07:45:13 <merope> nikg83[m]: You are thinking of input correlation (proving that two separate inputs belong to the same owner, because they show up in the same transaction, in spite of the decoys). What we're talking about is input deanonymization (proving which input is the true spend by knowing that the others are not because they belong to you/are known spent)
07:48:13 <nikg83[m]> merope: Yah inputs get deanonymized , also when someone is spending a old output even if it’s single one 
07:49:48 <merope> That's not a statement
07:52:04 <nikg83[m]> Let’s say I have a input from 2020, I make a tx with decoys mostly from 2022-21 with new algo and my input will standout
07:52:04 <nikg83[m]> What is the probability that decoy algo would have picked my 2020 input as a decoy in some other tx ? 
07:54:44 <merope> I don't know the exact number, but it's pretty low. That's how the decoy selection algo is designed, because in general there are pretty low chances of anyone spending an output so old
07:55:27 <merope> However, don't forget that your old output will also have shown up in other transactions back in 2020 already
07:55:37 <sech1> It usually selects 1-2 old inputs as decoys
07:56:13 <sech1> but if you spend 10 inputs from 2020 in a single transaction, it will be kind of obvious which are real spends
07:56:40 <nikg83[m]> merope: Is that a conclusion from monero blockchain analysis that ppl don’t spend from their old stack ? Or some other coin analysis? 
07:57:18 <merope> They looked at spend patterns on other coins and designed the algo from thay
07:57:24 <merope> s/thay/that/
07:57:59 <merope> Rucknium: is now doing more on that to design the new algo
07:58:47 <nikg83[m]> merope: Is every output used as a input decoy at somepoint ?
07:59:13 <merope> https://rucknium.me/html/spent-output-age-btc-bch-ltc-doge.html
07:59:34 <merope> nikg83[m]: Statistically yes. In fact, the average number of times that happens is == to the ringsize
08:00:02 <merope> So ringsize 11 means each output shows up in 11 transactions on average
08:00:42 <nikg83[m]> merope: That’s nice, has this been measured ? Or should happen 
08:00:58 <spackle_xmr[m]> Assuming my napkin math is correct, I believe there's something like a 2% chance of getting a value older than the start of 2020 with Monero's gamma distribution.
08:00:58 <spackle_xmr[m]> Obviously not the probability for a single transaction, but hopefully an informative statistic nonetheless.
08:02:22 <merope> nikg83[m]: I don't know if anyone has done any scientific measurement on that, but I know that there is a program somewhere that allows you to scan the blockchain and see all the transactions where a given input shows up
08:03:02 <merope> So you could do that for a large sample of inputs and see if the average is 11 or not
08:03:10 <spackle_xmr[m]> https://github.com/pokkst/monero-decoy-scanner
08:03:35 <merope> Oh there it is, thanks
08:08:27 <nikg83[m]> Btw is eabe attack possible?  Or slightly more hard now with increased ring size
08:08:56 <nikg83[m]> Or high target users need to have more churns in between
08:09:15 <sech1> possible but less reliable now
08:09:27 <sech1> and it will be even less reliable when ring size is increased to 128
09:04:48 <spackle_xmr[m]>  * Assuming my napkin math is correct, I believe there's something like a 2% chance of getting a value older than the start of 2020 with Monero's gamma distribution. That's for each decoy, so a set of decoys will have a significantly higher change of including an 'old' value.
09:04:48 <spackle_xmr[m]> Obviously not the probability for a single transaction, but hopefully an informative statistic nonetheless.
10:33:57 <Rucknium[m]> <merope> "They looked at spend patterns on..." <- Not exactly true. Moser et al. (2018) used a subset of old "traced" Monero transactions and fit a log-gamma distribution to the real spend age distribution: https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=15
10:36:30 <Rucknium[m]> <merope> "There's actually a nice plot..." <- I believe it is governed by a binomial distribution, under simplifying assumptions. I wrote an R Monte Carlo simulation here: https://gist.github.com/Rucknium/cd7b3b9ed73cba83a985731fba512ad1
10:37:27 <Rucknium[m]> But if it's binomial, then a Monte Carlo simulation is necessary, since binomial gives exact probabilities.
10:40:37 <Rucknium[m]> <nikg83[m]> "If I am moving 2 old inputs..." <- Probably. I think the cli and GUI warn users when they are about to do this. Borggren and Yao (2020) discuss this issue: https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=57
10:42:04 <Rucknium[m]> In theory we could have a more sophisticated decoy selection algorithm that takes into account multi-input transactions, but that research is for the future.
10:50:26 <Rucknium[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "But if it's binomial, then a..." <- Er, I mean the Monte Carlo simulation is _unnecessary_ if the it's simply binomial.
10:51:38 <Rucknium[m]> A monte carlo sim could be useful for using the empirical Monero data and removing the simplifying assumptions.
10:58:35 <TrasherDK[m]> <spacekitty420[m4> "idk, maybe if there s a consensu..." <- I'm pretty sure, some commercial entity, is more concerned with a positive bottom line, than some community feelings. Selsta asking nice will not change that. Comes down to: Dude, mind your own business. Effectively banning something like our thing, would involve a ridiculously number of jurisdictions, and good luck trying to get them to agree about anything.
11:04:31 <Morpheus[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/wpr25k/new_charts_released_on_monerojnet/
11:06:38 <TrasherDK[m]> > <@spackle_xmr:matrix.org> Ciphertrace originally announced their 'tool' roughly 2 years ago, and literally nothing has ever come from it.
11:06:38 <TrasherDK[m]> > There has never been a legal action taken in any jurisdiction on the planet as a result of tracing a Monero transaction. No warrants issued, arrests made, depositions taken... nothing. I welcome correction on this point if anyone can provide credible evidence.
11:06:38 <TrasherDK[m]> Well, if getting a shitload of money, equals nothing came of it, you'd be right.
11:08:07 <spacekitty420[m4> they didnt get a shitload on money from monero tho
11:08:27 <spacekitty420[m4> LN was in the same contract and got paid because of that, not because of monero
11:09:28 <spacekitty420[m4> s/on/of/
11:09:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> aremor: 
11:09:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kicking deposits are back open
11:09:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kucoin*
11:10:46 <Rucknium[m]> Ciphertrace didn't get the IRS contract. That was Chainalysis + Integra Fec: https://news.bitcoin.com/ciphertrace-enhanced-monero-tracing-capabilities-governments/
11:10:58 <Rucknium[m]> >A couple of months after Ciphertrace claimed to have a tool to trace Monero transactions, the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS) hired crypto intelligence firm Chainalysis Inc. and data forensics firm Integra Fec LLC to provide tools to track Monero transactions. This suggested to the crypto community that the solution offered by Ciphertrace was not sufficient.
11:11:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-kucoin-opens-mainnet-monero-xmr-tokens-deposit-and-withdrawal-services-20220816
11:12:31 <spacekitty420[m4> Rucknium[m]: my bad, i tend to confuse those fuckers once in awhile 😹
11:12:31 <spacekitty420[m4> but point still stands that they didnt get a shitload of money from monero then :3
11:22:44 <TrasherDK[m]> <spacekitty420[m4> "LN was in the same contract..." <- Let's forget about that specific bounty that was put on Monero's head.
11:25:23 <spacekitty420[m4> right so then would just assume most of their income would be coming from like, helping LE to trace some bitcoin transactions, funds from some altcoins hacks taht happened and things like that
11:27:12 <TrasherDK[m]> Yeah. Pretty much 😄
11:30:24 <spacekitty420[m4> funny thing is, there's been few exceptions where hackers tryna do some real obfuscations (like chainalysis report on that oneplus token thingy few years ago) but there's a very high percentage of those dumbasses that straight up sending to binance (or similar KYC exchange) 🤦‍♀️
11:30:59 <spacekitty420[m4> * years ago),, *  sending through mixers and whatnot but there's
11:33:30 <spacekitty420[m4> like, that literally blows my mind, some nerd doing some next level hacking shits but just too dumb to not even take monero or kyc into consideration, like being all like tunnel vision, that's... very interesting x)
11:38:09 <TrasherDK[m]> spacekitty420: That's nerds for you 😝🤣
11:38:56 <monerobull[m]> Meanwhile there's tons of literal stoners who are experts at using Monero with the best opsec you have ever seen
11:47:37 <nioc> people that pay hackers to do things for them don't necessarily know much themselves 
12:18:52 <selsta> TrasherDK[m]: what did I ask?
12:19:35 <TrasherDK[m]> selsta: Context?
12:20:07 <nioc> selsta: someone suggested as part of the plan for binance to stop trading monero was for you to ask them nicely
12:20:20 <TrasherDK[m]> Ah, asking nice for delisting of Monero from exchanges 🙂 
12:21:10 <selsta> Why would I ask for delisting lol
12:21:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Selsta like "... what did I walk into"
12:21:26 <nioc> you have influence 
12:21:40 <nioc> :D
12:22:38 <TrasherDK[m]> Yep. My answer was. Exchanges: `mind your own business` 
12:23:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> No for profit, with employees,  proprietary business that skirts around laws is going to delist because we ask nicely 
12:24:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Delisting would be a matter if government pressure / regulations
12:24:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> or their bottom line.
12:24:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> A lot of exchange want to be _paid_ to list your token.
12:24:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Those who list money, do it because its beneficial to them
12:25:02 <nioc> so pay them to delist
12:25:06 <nioc> .lenny
12:25:42 <nioc> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
12:26:10 <TrasherDK[m]> nioc: On a monthly basis? How much?
12:26:10 <ofrnxmr[m]>  (◕‿◕) 
12:26:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1bill xmr
12:27:16 <nioc> Cat says that I should not use her wallet 
12:28:22 <MajesticBank> binance is very important for monero, most of the swaps use binance, so without binace there wouldn't be monero on changenow,sideshift,fixedfloat etc
12:28:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not trueb
12:28:53 <TrasherDK[m]> So, to protect noobs, from themselves, those in the know should pay. Sounds like a plan.
12:28:54 <spacekitty420[m4> MajesticBank: but they literally just closed widthdrawal once again while letting deposits open
12:29:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Without Binance, that liquidity would hopefully go to an exchange that doesnt papertrade 
12:29:12 <spacekitty420[m4> saying again that its a network issue
12:29:28 <spacekitty420[m4> ofrnxmr[m]: ^ this
12:29:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Someone, I presume binance, empties out swap providers every time there is a crash 
12:29:52 <MajesticBank> try to buy 50k of monero on exchange other then binance and let me know how it goes
12:29:58 <nioc> yes it is an excuse other exchanges use, it is easy for them to do so 
12:30:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> They literally game swap providers for a profit by faking the reported prices by weight 
12:30:15 <spacekitty420[m4> tiny pump from 0.068 to 0.072, binance closed withdrawal :derp: 
12:30:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> MajesticBank: Precisely 
12:30:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Binance is worse than minexmr 
12:31:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Worse as far as whales or centralization or controlling outputs 
12:31:35 <nioc> when they had stopped deposits and withdrawals the price on binance was lower than other exchanges and when they opened up price went up
12:31:41 <TrasherDK[m]> spacekitty420[m4: LOL. XMR/BTC is a metric for performance?
12:32:48 <spacekitty420[m4> TrasherDK[m]: the theory is that binance forcing price down so as soon as they open withdrawal that makes price go up a lil bit then they closing again, wouldnt sayt its a metric for performance but its a metric that follows the usual pattern when that type of thing is happening
12:34:23 <nioc> price goes up and down constantly, for everything everywhere that is traded 
12:35:17 <spacekitty420[m4> but the fuck do i know, selsta apparently saying that binance just have wallet issues and we're just wackos believing in conspiracy theories or somethin somethin
12:35:30 <TrasherDK[m]> What can I say? Stay the fuck away from binance. Personally, I enjoy watching the bot wars on Kraken. Sometimes I catch a P-N-D wave, and scores a few neros.
12:35:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> LMFAO kraken uses to piss me off
12:36:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Watching bots run away from my limits
12:36:15 <spacekitty420[m4> nioc: and billions dollar companies having constant software issues over and over again is also totally normal
12:36:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> spacekitty420 @spacekitty420:matrix.org:  this is why I turned the finger and questioned "is this a MONERO issue?"
12:36:59 <selsta> I don't know much about trading but if an exchange has withdrawals closed it means people can't arbitrage between them causing the price difference.
12:37:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Meaning, if Binance has these issues, how will.. Amazon fare if they allowed xmr deposits
12:37:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Instant xmr death? 
12:37:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lolz.
12:37:26 <spacekitty420[m4> yeah, monero is just a trash software than even billion dollar companies whole IT department cant even figure out
12:38:15 <spacekitty420[m4> and if a whole IT department cant figure it out, how can u expect regular joes and janes to?
12:38:15 <TrasherDK[m]> IRS have tried for a while 🙂 
12:38:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah. selsta: 
12:38:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> But not futures 
12:39:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Arbitration from spot > futures. That the paper price game 
12:39:23 <TrasherDK[m]> I'm too drunk for this. I'm off. Later...
12:39:32 <spacekitty420[m4> latta o/
12:42:15 <selsta> Also I don't have insight into exchanges. I don't know how legit they are, all I know is they often reach out with wallet issues while people on Reddit simultaneously make up conspiracy theories on why they closed it.
12:42:40 <selsta> And personally I can't imagine exchanges collaborating to suppress monero's price.
12:43:14 <selsta> Whatever shady things they are doing with fractional reserve they will likely do it to all coins.
12:44:00 <spacekitty420[m4> you're the one talking about exchanges collaborating, binance is the biggest one according to coinmarketcap and it's not even in the US
12:44:44 <spacekitty420[m4> they're also the most trusted exchange on coinmarketcap
12:45:10 <spacekitty420[m4> while tradeogre (which is way more trusted for years in the monero community overall) doesnt even have a trust score over there
12:45:45 <MajesticBank> if you also check historical trading  on binance 80% of volume is people buying monero
12:46:04 <spacekitty420[m4> oh wait... they bought coinmarketcap few years ago, that website belongs to them
12:46:06 <MajesticBank> there will never be "enough" monero because people more keep it then sell it
12:48:56 <Rucknium[m]> Monero can be more difficult than other coins to deal with
12:49:15 <spacekitty420[m4> kraken have something in their website called "proof of reserve", idk if its something to be trusted or not but unlike binance that dont have that, they dont keep closing withdrawal every single time its expected
12:49:21 <Rucknium[m]> 1) 10 block lock on re-spending confirmed outputs
12:49:28 <Rucknium[m]> 2) maximum 16 outputs in a transaction
12:49:58 <Rucknium[m]> 3) Must be connected to a Monero node to construct a transaction (without custom code)
12:50:32 <Rucknium[m]> 4) Not a code fork of bitcoin nor ethereum, so it doesn't have the same RPC capabilities, etc
12:50:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium: 
12:50:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gotta hate matrix changing your numbers 😆😆
12:52:08 <MajesticBank> 10) It takes computing power to send monero transaction
12:54:03 <selsta> kraken an employee who is experienced with monero
12:54:16 <selsta> they set everything up properly
12:55:10 <sech1> Binance has enough $$$ to hire 10 such employees
12:55:25 <selsta> and even then they ran into issues yesterday because their wallet is so huge
12:55:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> And enough to donate to multisig LOL 
12:55:43 <sech1> I thought part of "setting up properly" means having many wallets
13:05:03 <spacekitty420[m4> so maybe instead of blaming it on binance, should just blame selsta for not spoonfeeding them how to properly set their wallet that they having issues with for years now
13:06:14 <spacekitty420[m4> like, +1 for sech1 to be the new insider at binance helping them set their infrastructure :3
13:08:58 <Morpheus[m]> Getmonero.org website download link for GUI-Linux points to version 0.18.0 while the hash file says there is a 0.18.1 version
13:09:42 <sech1> clear browser cache
13:10:56 <Morpheus[m]> Same
13:11:05 <Morpheus[m]> Also happens with CLI 64bit Linux
13:12:32 <Morpheus[m]> I only found out because doing sha25sum provided different hashs xD
13:17:20 <sech1> then it's cached somewhere between you and getmonero.org
13:17:40 <sech1> because I see 0.18.1 on all download links there
13:18:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Morpheus:  im seeing 18.1 as well
13:18:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://downloads.getmonero.org/cli/linux64
13:20:26 <Morpheus[m]> I was using brave browser, cleared the cache and it was pointing to 18.0. Now used firefox and it sent me 18.1
13:20:45 <Morpheus[m]> Strange, but thanks 👍️
13:31:38 <monerobull[m]> <MajesticBank> "10) It takes computing power..." <- Eh not really 
14:22:13 <monerobull[m]> Unless you use rpc-pay :P
15:27:19 <spacekitty420[m4> liliana914: hey
15:27:38 <liliana914[m]> Hi
15:27:41 <liliana914[m]> thank you
15:28:22 <liliana914[m]> so how to increase to 105 GB for blockchain
15:28:40 <liliana914[m]> it say it’s at zero now
15:29:46 <spacekitty420[m4> at this point am not sure if it did download a part of the blockchain and made the drive full or if its an other issue, would suggest trying something else, that instead of syncing the blockchain, you would launch the gui in "simple mode"
15:30:39 <liliana914[m]> How to launch on simple mode
15:30:41 <spacekitty420[m4> at least just to make sure you indeed received your funds, else, syncing the whole thing would be taking hours
15:31:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you have no space left on the drive, delete the blockchain and sync it again using
15:31:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> --prune-blockchain 
15:31:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Also, I highly recommend against simple mode. ...
15:31:23 <liliana914[m]> well Kraken verified I did receive funds I just don’t see it in wallet
15:31:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Use advanced mode and enter a trusted node
15:32:12 <liliana914[m]> where do I access advance node
15:32:12 <spacekitty420[m4> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> If you have no space left on the drive, delete the blockchain and sync it again using
15:32:12 <spacekitty420[m4> > 
15:32:12 <spacekitty420[m4> > --prune-blockchain
15:32:12 <spacekitty420[m4> i would also recommend against, is more a suggestion as a first step
15:32:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> If you have no space left on the drive, delete the blockchain and sync it again using... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/9f6df5a4bcf7a2c57ab31cac74e0297594dfe0d2)
15:32:39 <spacekitty420[m4> liliana914[m]: when you launching the gui, it should prompt you with those options
15:34:10 <liliana914[m]> How to delete blockchain?
15:34:35 <spacekitty420[m4> by default it should be in the folder "$HOME/.bitmonero/"
15:34:44 <spacekitty420[m4> but make sure you backed up your seed before doing any change
15:34:44 <plowsof> If you have the transaction id you can scan for it     https://deploy-preview-1996--barolo-time-757cf9.netlify.app/resources/user-guides/scan-txid.html 
15:35:22 <plowsof> Without having to sync (assuming its the only transfer)
15:35:30 <spacekitty420[m4> like, writing on a piece of paper the 25 words "mnemonic seed"
15:35:38 <liliana914[m]> how to back up.  Ugh.  I know so very little.  Can we talk on phone instead?  This is frustrating 
15:36:53 <liliana914[m]>  I’ve tried the mnemonic seed
15:36:55 <spacekitty420[m4> when you created the wallet, i think it should have prompted you with 25 words, that's what has to be written down somewhere
15:37:13 <liliana914[m]> yes, I have it
15:37:21 <spacekitty420[m4> alrighty so that's backed up then, all good
15:37:33 <liliana914[m]> so now
15:38:00 <spacekitty420[m4> can you check the folder "$HOME/.bitmonero/"?
15:38:01 <spacekitty420[m4> i dont know much about macs but that's where the blockchain data would be stored by default apparently
15:38:28 <liliana914[m]> oh it here.  The money made in.  It worked
15:38:36 <spacekitty420[m4> \o/
15:39:01 <liliana914[m]> thank you!  Somehow that synchronized thing did it
15:39:19 <liliana914[m]> awesome!
15:39:48 <spacekitty420[m4> am so confused rn like, thought it wasnt synced up (so guessing maybe you're in simple mode? idk LOL)
15:39:48 <spacekitty420[m4> either way, glad you got the thingy \o/
15:39:57 <liliana914[m]> now the money just stays there till I send to someone right?
15:40:19 <bridgerton[m]> <BelugaTrap> money?
15:40:22 <spacekitty420[m4> yup, and those 25 words you written down is the way to restore them from anywhere
15:40:24 <bridgerton[m]> <BelugaTrap> i like money xd
15:40:26 <liliana914[m]> I need do nothing else until I want to send funds?
15:40:57 <liliana914[m]> monero not money
15:41:17 <bridgerton[m]> <BelugaTrap> ohhhh
15:41:27 <spacekitty420[m4> dont think so, if its showing there then to send it should do without issues
15:41:28 <bridgerton[m]> <BelugaTrap> well i still like monero
15:42:03 <liliana914[m]> thanks so much for taking the time to help me💖
15:47:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> spacekitty420 @spacekitty420 :catgirl.cloud:  what wallet app / program were they using previously, if not not monero-gui,
15:48:37 <spacekitty420[m4> idk, discussion started in the dev channel and pretty sure it always was the gui
15:49:45 <spacekitty420[m4> like there was some errors or something about storage space maybe or folder being read-only which i have no idea how folder perms are working on mac :/
15:51:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Okok. 👍 all good. Was just going to say "if it was some 🚮 wallet, to send the funds to a new seed"
15:51:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> But no need 👌
20:19:42 <liliana914[m]> When sending money from external Monero-Wa
20:22:47 <liliana914[m]> Monero -wallet-gui does one immediately send all unlocked balance of the account?  I would think so after you put exact amount in the amount box.  But on top of amount box there is  what says “amount with number 8 sideways - what does that mean?
20:23:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Send all (infinity symbol)
20:23:38 <merope> It's an infinity symbol - it means "send the entire available balance"
20:23:39 <merope> (Minus the tx fee)
20:23:58 <liliana914[m]> well my available balance is different than what I want to send
20:24:28 <merope> Then you type in the amount
20:24:34 <liliana914[m]> So that’s confusing 
20:24:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes, so dont use the infinity symbol 
20:24:48 <liliana914[m]> once I type amount do I press that infinity sign
20:24:58 <liliana914[m]> dont use it ok
20:25:02 <liliana914[m]> thank you