12:09:24 <ssstyccdfhju2356> which mobile xmr wallet  is recommended? should be open-source, audited and secure
12:13:26 <sech1> Monerujo or Cake wallet
12:13:37 <sech1> I'm not sure about "audited"
12:13:41 <sech1> both are open source
15:00:09 <DiegoSalazar[m]> I don't think any of the wallets have had a recent audit.
15:00:56 <DiegoSalazar[m]> Wownero is now live on Stack Wallet if you wanted to try it out. nioc and others
15:01:10 <DiegoSalazar[m]> Android only atm. Having a couple issues with iOS.
15:54:29 <KNNY[m]> <DiegoSalazar[m]> "Android only atm. Having a..." <- I use ios for just calling and texting, all the other app shit is on graphene
15:55:12 <KNNY[m]> if i have to call people I at least want it to be reliable, anything internet related android can do fine 
15:56:36 <DiegoSalazar[m]> Sounds reasonable. 
15:56:49 <DiegoSalazar[m]> Does Stack work on graphene? Haven't checked yet. 
15:57:17 <KNNY[m]> Idk haven't used it 
15:57:28 <DiegoSalazar[m]> I'll give it a look.
15:58:32 <KNNY[m]> I have one profile for security related things and another thats named "google play services", so that even if google play is sandboxed in the OS I don't want it fucking up and somehow being able to reach files within the same profile 
15:59:06 <KNNY[m]> So for anything installed from aurora is in a different profile
15:59:41 <DiegoSalazar[m]> I'm assuming you use FDroid also, yeah?
15:59:59 <DiegoSalazar[m]> So the things you don't have to get from Google Play you don't have to.
16:00:27 <KNNY[m]> Yeah 
16:00:32 <KNNY[m]> I always go to fdroid first
16:01:00 * KNNY[m] uploaded an image: (166KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/JAscozmPeYdrkplarNAuutWI/Screenshot_20220930-090047.png >
16:01:07 <KNNY[m]> App drawer check 🏌️‍♂️🤪
16:01:39 <DiegoSalazar[m]> NewPipe any good? Vanced is dying. :(
16:03:28 <KNNY[m]> Newpipe is good yeah, its just sometimes the API times out and you have to go to the youtube site instead
16:03:29 <KNNY[m]> But for 95% of time its fine 
16:03:55 <KNNY[m]> Havent used vanced in years I didn't know it was still a thing 
16:04:25 <DiegoSalazar[m]> they tried to sell nfts and google cracked down on them
16:04:33 <KNNY[m]> ☠️
16:04:49 <KNNY[m]> chad move
16:05:47 <KNNY[m]> Awfully audacious considering each persons google profile is just a really expensive NFT of their identity
18:39:11 <duggavo[m]> Do you think Windows has any crypto-miner? I re-installed Windows 10 recently, and it uses 10-30% of CPU when doing absolutely NOTHING, with my new computer, while Ubuntu with GNOME (a very heavy desktop environment) uses 2-3%
18:40:03 <gunslinger_zach[> You are just spoiled at how de-bloted any version of linux is
18:40:36 <duggavo[m]> gunslinger_zach[: Or just at how Windows sucks
18:40:57 <duggavo[m]> Windows 7 didn't use that much CPU
18:41:04 <gunslinger_zach[> Yep but you don’t notice it until you make Linux you daily driver
18:41:04 <duggavo[m]> * much CPU anyway
18:41:14 <sech1> Windows 10 has tons of crap running in background by default
18:41:35 <duggavo[m]> Who knows? Windows might be actually cryptomining, since it's closed-source there is no way to know
18:42:09 <sech1> Try to find in Task Manager what uses CPU
18:42:39 <gunslinger_zach[> Considering that Microsoft is a publicly Traided company, they may have to disclose that kind of revenue
18:44:45 <xtiveangels[m]> <duggavo[m]> "Do you think Windows has any..." <- https://nnmclub.to
18:44:45 <xtiveangels[m]> Windows 10 LTSC by Paxweaver
18:44:45 <xtiveangels[m]> Great job to cut off spying
18:44:45 <xtiveangels[m]> System do nothing
18:45:10 <duggavo[m]> > <@xtiveangels:matrix.sp-codes.de> https://nnmclub.to... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/c509d7a8b0c73c2cff7ae98b814ec74b18b14ecc>)
18:45:31 <xtiveangels[m]> english version
18:47:33 <xtiveangels[m]> You chose. And open source power shell script by westlife to delete windows defender, cortana and all bad microsoft stuff. Translated to English too
18:47:45 <xtiveangels[m]> s/chose/choose/
19:37:31 <plowsof> dEBRUYNE please shill the new version, (the previous node bug is fixed) thank you https://www.getmonero.org/2022/09/29/monero-0.18.1.2-released.html
21:04:38 <fr33_yourself[m]> <duggavo[m]> "Who knows? Windows might be..." <- Lol
21:18:01 <RavFX[m]> You would know if Windows was cryptomining
21:18:24 <RavFX[m]> It's probably easier to insert a cryptominer in an opensource project than in Windows
21:19:06 <plowsof> Proof of concept randomx sniffer from tevador https://github.com/tevador/randomx-sniffer
21:21:02 <plowsof> although number 2: modify operating system .. but i'd agree with RavFX
21:21:29 <fr33_yourself[m]> That's an interesting project. It helps prevent theft of CPU resources.
21:22:48 <fr33_yourself[m]> Crackpot Hypothesis: Windows implements this in their OS and then geolocates all Monero miners using Windows OS and shuts them down. Lol. I understand that this is highly unlikely (at least in the short term)
21:23:26 <fr33_yourself[m]> -1000 Fed Coin Credit Score haha
21:24:55 <RavFX[m]> They could implement that in Windows and stop removing chunk of monero wallet with there anti virus....
21:24:56 <RavFX[m]> Instead if it detect mining it could tell you " We detected mining operation on you're system, is this one of you're making <yes/no> [ ] remember.
21:24:56 <RavFX[m]> Then it could remember the binarie doing the mining and stop naging you about it, except if you choose no and in that case it could remove the unauthorized cryptominer
21:25:37 <RavFX[m]> If you get a different miner it would detect it because it's a different binarie and ask you again
21:26:07 <RavFX[m]> Could get rid of most unauthorized mining while stopping messing with people Monero installation
21:27:29 <fr33_yourself[m]> The project is a good tool in my opinion. As it enables people to detect when they are being stolen from. I am conspiracy oriented and elaborated on how the project could be deployed by Microsoft to attack Monero. 
21:28:05 <RavFX[m]> I don't think microsoft can attack more Monero with that. I mean, they already know when you install Monero anyway
21:29:14 <fr33_yourself[m]> Good point. I feel like an idiot for forgetting that haha. They could just geolocate everyone who has downloaded any Monero based software haha
21:29:25 <RavFX[m]> Microsoft is a for profit corporation, they don't give a fsck about what you do with the OS but they don't like malware tainting there name because people associate Windows with Virus
21:31:39 <RavFX[m]> And comparing now with 15 years ago, Microsoft did a wonderful job as far as malware management
21:32:42 <fr33_yourself[m]> That makes sense. I agree with you that presently Microsoft might not care much about what you are doing with their OS, but I think there is a decent chance of a government crackdown and the government will use Big Tech to surveil and target the masses (within the next 10 years).
21:34:50 <RavFX[m]> But gouvernment can also inject spy stuff in opensource software.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/dd271eee5ed518a78045b614c4b9f92aa65600ed>)
21:35:03 <RavFX[m]> s/and/in/
21:35:59 <fr33_yourself[m]> How is it possible for a government to inject spy stuff into Opensource software?
21:36:14 <RavFX[m]> Monero utilization can be detected at ISP level. They don't need to picky back into you're OS.
21:36:28 <fr33_yourself[m]> True.
21:36:48 <fr33_yourself[m]> ISPs are a more effective point of control for the government.
21:36:49 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: open a github account and commit
21:36:49 <RavFX[m]> Or better, Login with some nice good old dev account that got hacked and commit from his?
21:37:39 <fr33_yourself[m]> I see. And  they actually succeeded in doing this to Linux three times in the past? Also what is the "RC" you referred to?
21:38:01 <RavFX[m]> Way easier than hacking into the Microsoft internal repository to place the backdoor.
21:38:01 <RavFX[m]> Plus no microsoft dev have access to all the code, they all have access to the specific subsystem they know best and work on these.
21:38:01 <RavFX[m]> You won't see a NTKRNL.exe DEV working on the taskbar
21:38:28 <RavFX[m]> RC mean Release candidate.
21:38:28 <RavFX[m]> It's when the kernel get released as beta so more people can test it
21:39:02 <RavFX[m]> they usually have 7 to 9 RC before the kernel is deamed stable and incorporated into the many distributions
21:39:24 <RavFX[m]> one RC per two week
21:39:25 <RavFX[m]> one point release per week
21:39:43 <fr33_yourself[m]> I see, but I don't understand all of that terminology haha
21:41:35 <RavFX[m]> The difference is that with Linux, everyone have access to all the code
21:41:35 <RavFX[m]> Everyone can try to sneak a backdoor into a part of the code.
21:41:35 <RavFX[m]> And there is not only the kernel, a normal linux distribution need at minimum like 200 dependencies. You only need to backdoor a widely used one
21:42:14 <RavFX[m]> The kernel and some base libs are widely audited so the risk is lower, but the risk is still present
21:42:24 <fr33_yourself[m]> Your point is that ISPs are a more effective point of control than operating systems, correct? If so, just how censorship resistant are cryptocurrencies really? They are dependent on the condition that there will always be at least one geographical location that doesn't restrict how people use the internet, right?
21:43:30 <fr33_yourself[m]> RavFX[m]: Which do you think is easier to backdoor, Linux or Windows? Also which do personally use and why?
21:43:50 <RavFX[m]> Well, some ISP have to record what you connect to and keep the log for a few year.
21:43:50 <RavFX[m]> Just grep every connection to port 1808* then you know exactly who is using Monero in your country (assuming they have country wide data collection laws)
21:43:50 <RavFX[m]> Of course, people using VPN and TOR are immune, kinda
21:45:29 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself: I would say, the risk is the same:
21:45:29 <RavFX[m]> * Linux is easier to backdoor because everyone can try to do it.
21:45:29 <RavFX[m]> * Windows can have serious bugs that 3 letter agencies know about and abuse them for years
21:46:26 <Rucknium[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> Well, some ISP have to record what you connect to and keep the log for a few year.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/51ea1e43557718ad5e7eb79b2b5faf312bf249e7>)
21:46:31 <RavFX[m]> And I see more damage using opensource software, for example when that stupid guy decided to patch a npm very used depandancy to add code to detect you're IP. Russian IP = Delete everything you have, yay!
21:47:26 <RavFX[m]> Many time people make malware in Python and Nodejs dependencies. Because it's easy!
21:48:14 <RavFX[m]> Rucknium[m]: That's nice actually
21:48:23 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> Well, some ISP have to record what you connect to and keep the log for a few year.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/1212f2bcf21e002ebcdb6b9764bb18902918e6be>)
21:49:25 <fr33_yourself[m]> Rucknium[m]: That is good. I think he is trying to encrypt the traffic between nodes or something like this?
21:49:33 <RavFX[m]> We need better way to obfuscate what you are doing on the net.
21:49:33 <RavFX[m]> and if using VPN, exit on where they don't give a fsck or exit in a country that have opposed alignement to you're country.
21:49:33 <RavFX[m]> You are an american? Use a Russian VPN.
21:49:33 <RavFX[m]> You are chinese? Use a American VPN..
21:50:45 <RavFX[m]> The best is to make it so it does look like something else.
21:50:45 <RavFX[m]> Can they just initiate client->node and node->node a la TLS on port 443?
21:50:59 <RavFX[m]> that way it will look like other encrypted https traffic
21:51:18 <RavFX[m]> using a specific port is really giving the information away to the ISP
21:52:00 <fr33_yourself[m]> So in practice, people in China bypass their internet restrictions by purchasing and connecting to US VPN services or by using TOR with a bridge? Or some combination thereof?
21:53:09 <RavFX[m]> Kindof.
21:53:09 <RavFX[m]> they just need vpn or tor and exit not in china.
21:53:09 <RavFX[m]> BUT china gonna know you are using a VPN, what if they have good relation to you're VPN exit country and ask them the info.
21:53:09 <RavFX[m]> If the US gouv ask Russia about my IP, Russia will tell them to fsck off
21:53:30 <RavFX[m]> And Russia have no power on me, they are on another contient
21:53:37 <RavFX[m]> s/contient/continent/
21:54:13 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> We need better way to obfuscate what you are doing on the net.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/86b7b91d2fd63adf6eb0cb2e8e279c19c4668692>)
21:54:32 <RavFX[m]> Having a VPN exiting in a unfriendly country to you're country prevent you're country receiving response from the other country
21:54:59 <RavFX[m]> They can't
21:54:59 <RavFX[m]> Except if the execute the splinternet plan
21:56:27 <RavFX[m]> WEF talked about the splinternet as a way to lower the risk of cyber attack
21:56:27 <RavFX[m]> to make it simple, you have one internet for america, one internet for latin america, one internet for europe.
21:56:27 <RavFX[m]> All connection between theses are based on whitelist only.
21:56:27 <RavFX[m]> That way it prevent information circulating all around (that's probably the real reason, cyberattack are the excuse they gonna use if they are going to execute that plan)
21:56:32 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> Kindof.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/ffe5dd908c217f3abed7e8393a454062df9bf29a>)
21:57:19 <RavFX[m]> Non, they don't care much actually.
21:57:19 <RavFX[m]> You can just buy a Hong Kong SIM, and use it totally unfiltered in china, access everything without a VPN
21:58:09 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> WEF talked about the splinternet as a way to lower the risk of cyber attack... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/144ef816198a5062200d15e993b13635bba84fed>)
21:58:10 <RavFX[m]> that's the best solution if you are in china, just get a hong kong SIM. Use tor or a VPN if you which in extra
21:58:49 <RavFX[m]> s/which/whish/
21:59:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> Non, they don't care much actually.
21:59:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> > 
21:59:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> > You can just buy a Hong Kong SIM, and use it totally unfiltered in china, access everything without a VPN
21:59:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> Oh wow. How do you know this by the way? Do you have friends/contacts that live in China? I was under the impression that it was much worse there (like police questioning you if they find out you are using a VPN)
21:59:44 <fr33_yourself[m]> RavFX[m]: Gotcha. That is good info
22:00:45 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: For a matter, yes, I do have friends there.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/82b55723ddb8416f62303c0a1ea7bb21369ecef4>)
22:00:56 <fr33_yourself[m]> My understanding regarding the Monero network's persistence is correct though right? As long as there is some place in the world where nodes can be maintained without getting "whacked" then we are good?
22:01:29 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, as long as we don't have a splinternet, monero should be totally unstoppable.
22:02:34 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> For a matter, yes, I do have friends there.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/febd3e4e56f826667945d6406c47883a8f04dea0>)
22:03:13 <fr33_yourself[m]> RavFX[m]: What would happen to Monero if a splinternet was implemented by governments?
22:03:47 <RavFX[m]> I'm sure they use it
22:03:51 * RavFX[m] uploaded an image: (100KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/0wnz.at/TBWJaPCRoiHYCdgQoifzGRHn/image.png >
22:04:34 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: We would get a monero chain fork in every region of the splinternet.
22:04:34 <RavFX[m]> monero will continue to work but you won't be able to transfer coin between regions
22:05:11 <RavFX[m]> And it would cause issue for the developpement and release of monero binaries as they might not be available in you're region
22:05:20 <Rucknium[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: CCS to fund satellite launches 😎
22:06:14 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, we need Monero geostationary satellites with blockchain in space
22:07:06 <RavFX[m]> They need some anti sat-killer tech too
22:08:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@al800:0wnz.at> We would get a monero chain fork in every region of the splinternet.
22:08:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> > monero will continue to work but you won't be able to transfer coin between regions
22:08:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> Roger. Thanks for explaining the consequences of that. Fingers crossed we don't have to face that scenario in the future.
22:08:19 <fr33_yourself[m]> Rucknium[m]: Haha good one
22:08:33 <Torr> RavFX[m]: U're one step from intergalactic warfare.
22:08:42 <RavFX[m]> We need to setup mesh network that cross border, and that is faster than Lora 😄
22:08:42 <RavFX[m]> The satellites are a good idea actually
22:09:20 <fr33_yourself[m]> Rav, if you don't mind my asking what do you do for a living?
22:09:46 <fr33_yourself[m]> You seem very knowledgeable regarding tech
22:10:00 <RavFX[m]> I just do code and get paid with and accumulate the monero
22:10:42 <RavFX[m]> No monero, no code
22:11:55 <fr33_yourself[m]> RavFX[m]: Who do you code for? Are you free-lance? Do you ever find yourself without projects to work on? And what type of development do you do?
22:12:44 <RavFX[m]> Free lance but I have big profile customers.
22:12:44 <RavFX[m]> Quite surprised I was actually able to get them to pay me that way lol
22:13:25 <RavFX[m]> For now I'm kind of fully booked because I have projects of my own too
22:13:56 <fr33_yourself[m]> Nice. Sounds like a good gig.
22:14:00 <RavFX[m]> I can do c++ and web shiet
22:14:04 <fr33_yourself[m]> How long have you been programming for?
22:15:15 <RavFX[m]> Programming for crypto, since 2017 ish
22:15:15 <RavFX[m]> That was after like 7 years of no "work" at all
22:16:00 <RavFX[m]> But I got bored and I wanted more
22:16:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> So you spent 7 years learning to program. And have only been doing it for income since 2017?
22:16:32 <plowsof> is something broken, i appear to have access to your private messages 
22:16:58 <RavFX[m]> yeah, maybe I should stfu lol
22:17:17 <fr33_yourself[m]> Sorry for blowing up the chat. I was just curious.
22:17:44 <fr33_yourself[m]> Anyways, thanks for all of your answers RavFX
22:19:48 <Torr> RavFX[m]: Now go open your door for fr33_yourself[m], he's anxious to meet you.