00:23:26 <merope> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/yle5i7/my_3d_printed_monero_miner_case/
00:23:26 <merope> Jfc the amount of bots in this post...
00:25:02 <selsta> I feel like we need another reddit mod who can focus on banning them
00:29:52 <nioc> bots taking over the world, seems a bit different than how it's portrayed in the movies 
00:31:51 <plowsof> tfw you have a notification and its a 2 month old account saying "Yes thats something, i'd have to think but i can see that!" 
00:35:05 <selsta> well luckily these are dumb bots
00:35:25 <selsta> but once they use gpt3 or however it's called it will be more difficult to spot them
03:32:49 <monerobull[m]> <selsta> "I feel like we need another..." <- I'd be down for it
03:34:07 <monerobull[m]> <plowsof> "tfw you have a notification..." <- It's so irritating. I guess they are farming karma? But why in our subreddit specifically 
03:36:52 <plowsof> you need x karma before you can post on r/monero (and perhaps reddit wont 'count your downvote' as being legit if your account does not have some criteria)
03:37:21 <plowsof> vote manipulation is a thing, but im just guessing here 
06:22:09 <snail[m]> Howdy.
06:22:12 <snail[m]> To migrate my Monero Wallet from Windows to Linux, I'll just need my recovery seed, right?
06:22:27 <snail[m]> This would be the same for any device?
06:26:05 <snail[m]> s/device/cryptocurrency/
06:26:08 <spacekitty420[m]> yes
06:26:45 <spacekitty420[m]> 25 words mnemonic seed for monero, private key for bitcoin
06:32:27 <snail[m]> <spacekitty420[m]> "25 words mnemonic seed for..." <- So I just take copy, nuke the OS, and type them into the new Linux distro?
06:32:51 <spacekitty420[m]> ./monero-wallet-cli --restore-deterministic-wallet
06:32:54 <spacekitty420[m]> on the linux side
06:33:03 <spacekitty420[m]> then yea, just paste the 25 words when prompted
06:33:35 <snail[m]> spacekitty420[m]: And it will be exactly the same as how it was?
06:33:36 <snail[m]> No lost functionality?
06:34:00 <snail[m]> I also have a hardware device, so, what happens with that?
06:34:06 <snail[m]> Is that tied to the funds?
06:35:06 <spacekitty420[m]> you can try doing it on windows already if you want to familiarize yourself with the process
06:35:06 <spacekitty420[m]> restoring that same wallet you have by doing the same steps you would be doing on linux
06:35:32 <snail[m]> > <@spacekitty420:matrix.org> you can try doing it on windows already if you want to familiarize yourself with the process
06:35:32 <snail[m]> > restoring that same wallet you have by doing the same steps you would be doing on linux
06:35:32 <snail[m]> No lost functionality? (IE, sending or receiving funds?)
06:36:41 <spacekitty420[m]> as for hardware wallet, am not sure, i think it works differently
06:36:41 <spacekitty420[m]> but as long as you have those seeds backed up then it should be all good
06:36:41 <spacekitty420[m]> functionnality-wise, if you're using the same software so like monero-cli or monero-cli then it's all the same yeah
06:36:51 <spacekitty420[m]> s/cli/gui/
06:37:08 <snail[m]> Right. Cheers.
06:37:14 <spacekitty420[m]> cheers
06:37:56 <decenteroven[m]> Sir, I have a question. For example, 24 words and after +25 words for Monero are entered on the Ledger Nano X device, is it possible to enter Monero without +25 words with 24 words that have been re-enter on the Ledger Nano X device or not? Without +25 words. With only 24 words.
06:38:42 <merope> <snail[m]> "To migrate my Monero Wallet from..." <- I think you don't even need to do the recovery process - just copy the wallet files to the new os and open them with the wallet software as usual
06:39:04 <snail[m]> merope: I have tons of wallets, I prefer to use the seed.
06:39:15 <spacekitty420[m]> decenteroven[m]: usually your hardware wallet seed is not related to your monero wallet seed
06:39:16 <spacekitty420[m]> i think
06:39:16 <spacekitty420[m]> like, it's 2 different things
06:40:24 <snail[m]> > <@spacekitty420:matrix.org> usually your hardware wallet seed is not related to your monero wallet seed
06:40:24 <snail[m]> > i think
06:40:24 <snail[m]> > like, it's 2 different things
06:40:24 <snail[m]> wait what
06:40:25 <snail[m]> So I'll need to take note of my hardware wallet seeds?
06:40:36 <merope> snail[m]: Sure, but I'm saying it's not necessary. Also, when you recover from seed, you lose any transaction metadata that was saved in the wallet cache (such as the recipient address - visible only to you locally)
06:41:13 <merope> snail[m]: ALWAYS write down your seed
06:41:39 <merope> If your hardware wallet breaks or gets lost or stops working, you lose access to your coins without the seed
06:41:50 <spacekitty420[m]> snail[m]: sowry like said earlier i really dont know nothing about hardware wallet, is just what i heard that it's 2 different things
06:41:50 <spacekitty420[m]> but yeah, it's good practice to save the seeds no matter what it is
06:42:10 <snail[m]> I have the seeds noted, I just want to know what I'm saving.
06:42:13 <snail[m]> merope: Right...
06:43:40 <merope> <decenteroven[m]> "Sir, I have a question. For..." <- If I remember correctly, Ledger's 24 word seed uses a different format from Monero's 25 word seed - they are two different things
06:45:38 <decenteroven[m]> For example, if I enter 24 words in ledger without entering 25 words, can I reach monero or not?
06:46:19 <spacekitty420[m]> so like, i could be totally wrong on that but from my understanding (which is really not much cause never googled that stuff)
06:46:19 <spacekitty420[m]> is like, your hardware wallet having it's own seed which hold all the cryptocoins you have on that hardware wallet
06:46:19 <spacekitty420[m]> apparently there are ways to extract the seed from a specific coin, no idea how tho
06:46:19 <spacekitty420[m]> so that hardware wallet seed is not to be confused with for example a monero seed that you would have by for example just generating a wallet from the monero-wallet-cli or gui by itself which can be restored without the use of hardware wallet at all
06:46:44 <snail[m]> > <@spacekitty420:matrix.org> so like, i could be totally wrong on that but from my understanding (which is really not much cause never googled that stuff)... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2c5054d00aaf69265821bac298e004e0f3a62ad0>)
06:47:28 <snail[m]> and you mentioned transactions, will I loose my transaction history?
06:47:33 <spacekitty420[m]> very, that's why i never understood why people choose to make it confusing by using hardware wallet instead of just doing it easily by making paper wallets themselves
06:47:41 <merope> snail[m]: Tell that to the hardware wallet's developers...
06:48:32 <spacekitty420[m]> snail[m]: not transaction history but info like where it goes to and such which is only stored in the data file and not recoverable from seed
06:48:46 <snail[m]> fun
06:50:01 <merope> When you rescan the chain you will see all your transactions again, but only the data that was actually published to the blockchain (txid, amounts, spent/unspent balance). Anything else (recipient address, any notes you might have had, or recipient addresses you might have saved) will be lost
06:51:51 <decenteroven[m]> Let's assume after get 25 words for monero in Ledger nano. For example, if I enter 24 words without entering 25 words in the Ledger nano, can I reach monero or not?
06:51:58 <merope> <decenteroven[m]> "For example, if I enter 24 words..." <- If you use a 24-word seed that was created from the Ledger, to restore a wallet on the Ledger, then you will find the same original wallet. If you try to use a Monero 25-word seed to restore a Ledger wallet, you will find a different (empty) wallet)
06:52:42 <merope> Actually, I'm not even sure if the ledger will accept the same words that Monero uses
06:53:16 <spacekitty420[m]> probably 2 different dictionaries yeah, like the bip thingy for bitcoin are different words than the monero words
06:53:16 <merope> Basically, Ledger's 24-word seed and Monero's 25-word are not compatible
06:56:26 <decenteroven[m]> Let's say after you get 25 words for monero in ledger nano and buyed 30 monero and 30 monero in ledger nano.  For example, if I enter 24 words without entering 25 words into Ledger nano, can I reach 30 monero or not?
06:56:56 <spacekitty420[m]> most likely not
07:01:25 <spacekitty420[m]> decenteroven[m]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/a1o9sz/comment/eb0qq17/... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/0269cd86adfca9d1c6781e1c8c2d105838c29ffd>)
07:02:06 <spacekitty420[m]> 4 years ago so idk if it's still up to date or not but long story short, it's 2 different seeds
07:53:54 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=AUdh3W4xd6I
07:53:55 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Is this how it works?
07:59:43 <rbrunner> Yeah, pretty dumb, isn't it? Much better to mint millions of NFTs and pretend they have real value, or fire up one new blockchain after the other and pretend those coins all have value. Solid.
08:37:26 <decenteroven[m]> Let's say after you get 25 words for monero in ledger nano and buyed 30 monero and 30 monero in ledger nano.  For example, if I enter 24 words without entering 25 words into Ledger nano, can I reach 30 monero or not reach?   A) Can reach to monero   B) Cannot reach to Monero            Is it A or B?
08:37:40 <sech1> dude, you asked it like 4 times already
08:38:27 <decenteroven[m]> A or B?
08:38:38 <snail[m]> 💀
08:38:56 <sech1> you got your answer
08:39:11 <decenteroven[m]> I use translation
08:39:16 <decenteroven[m]> A or B?
08:40:09 <sech1> what part of https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/a1o9sz/comment/eb0qq17/ you didn't get?
08:40:15 <sech1> 24 and 25 word seeds use different formats
08:40:18 <decenteroven[m]> Sir I use translation.
08:40:23 <sech1> BBBBBBBBBBB
08:40:24 <sech1> B
08:40:38 <decenteroven[m]> I know it is different seeds but A or B?
08:40:55 <snail[m]> BRO
08:42:01 <sech1> B
08:42:23 <sech1> you needs special tools to convert 24 to 25 words
08:42:25 <snail[m]> U
08:43:49 <decenteroven[m]> I'm trying to tell you this. If 25 words of monero seeds are installed next to the ledger nano x 24 words seed, then if I reset the hardware wallet, if I enter 24 words into ledger nano x to access monero, can I access monero assets without entering 25 words?
08:44:17 <snail[m]> nice one
08:44:39 <snail[m]> what are you telling us, we all already told you B.
08:44:58 <snail[m]> if you want to enter it, you need the special tool to convert 24 to 25 words.
08:44:59 <snail[m]> the infomation is all in front of you.
08:48:31 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?
08:51:32 <sech1> Maybe
08:51:53 <sech1> Try it, preferably with all XMR your have and get back to us with the answer
08:51:58 <sech1> I don't have ledger
08:52:04 <sech1> maybe ask ledger support
08:52:30 <decenteroven[m]> You know but you don't tell me
08:52:42 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?
08:54:08 <decenteroven[m]> Are u here sir
08:54:12 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?
08:55:20 <sech1> Sir! I don't know! I don't have ledger!
08:55:27 <sech1> But 24 and 25 words are different formats!
08:55:35 <sech1> If ledger asks for 24 words, enter original 24 words!
08:56:26 <decenteroven[m]> I know there are different formats but you didn't understand the question
08:57:27 <sech1> You enter 24 words
08:57:45 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?  A) enter 24 word        B) enter 24 word + 25 word
08:57:55 <sech1> You enter 24 words, sir!
08:58:06 <decenteroven[m]> Is it A?
08:58:09 <sech1> FUCK
08:58:21 <sech1> added to ignore list
08:59:19 <decenteroven[m]> Dont swear
09:00:02 <decenteroven[m]> Is it a or b?
09:01:16 <decenteroven[m]> Are u sech1 here, sir?
09:01:21 <decenteroven[m]>  A or B?
09:09:23 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?  A) enter 24 word        B) enter 24 word + 25 word
09:10:54 <snail[m]> absolute dumbass
09:11:15 <decenteroven[m]> I was not convinced
09:11:28 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?  A) enter 24 word        B) enter 24 word + 25 word
09:11:42 <snail[m]> <decenteroven[m]> "You know but you don't tell me" <- no
09:11:46 <snail[m]> they dont know
09:11:49 <snail[m]> why would they know
09:11:51 <snail[m]> go ask ledger support
09:12:01 <snail[m]> if you are seriously this concerned, go ask their support.
09:12:01 <spacekitty420[m]> you dont have to convert anything, the reddit link is only if ledger goes out of business
09:12:26 <spacekitty420[m]> so just use the 24 word for the 24 word
09:12:26 <snail[m]> well there you go decenteroven 
09:13:14 <TrasherDK[m]> But, but.. What if 🤣
09:13:38 <spacekitty420[m]> what if you try to put the square in the circle? well it just wont fit so put the square in the square and the circle in the circle
09:14:28 <TrasherDK[m]> Thanks. That advise probably saved me a lot of time 😂
09:14:44 <spacekitty420[m]> :3
09:15:33 <decenteroven[m]> But I would like to convert it.  I am open to information
09:15:53 <TrasherDK[m]> I'm dead.
09:16:16 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?  A) enter 24 word        B) enter 24 word + 25 word
09:16:18 <spacekitty420[m]> then in that case am not even sure it's still up to date as the post is from few years ago
09:16:18 <spacekitty420[m]> i guess you could try and see what happens
09:16:18 <spacekitty420[m]> just... make backups of everything beforehand
09:16:32 <aremor[m]> monero support?
09:16:54 <decenteroven[m]> Where monero support. Aremor
09:16:55 <spacekitty420[m]> https://matrix.to/#/#monero-support:monero.social
09:17:24 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?  A) enter 24 word        B) enter 24 word + 25 word
09:17:33 <spacekitty420[m]> decenteroven[m]: you can try and you'll have your answer
09:17:34 <decenteroven[m]> Everyone must answer
09:17:47 <spacekitty420[m]> try it
09:18:01 <decenteroven[m]> A or b
09:18:04 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?  A) enter 24 word        B) enter 24 word + 25 word
09:18:05 <spacekitty420[m]> <inserts shia laboeuf "just do it" me>
09:18:09 <spacekitty420[m]> do it
09:18:11 <spacekitty420[m]> just do it
09:18:34 <aremor[m]> spacekitty420[m]: And reply here 
09:18:41 <decenteroven[m]> There is a few himan in that group
09:18:50 <decenteroven[m]> If I convert 24 words to 25 words for monero in the hardware wallet and then reset the hardware wallet, do I only need to enter 24 words or 24 words + 25 words to access the monero entity?  A) enter 24 word        B) enter 24 word + 25 word
09:18:53 <rbrunner> Answering is not possible if the question is not sensible. You can ask as often as you want, the question does not suddenly get sense because of that.
09:18:57 <decenteroven[m]> A or B
09:19:06 <rbrunner> I unask the question.
09:19:09 <decenteroven[m]> Cleqr answer
09:19:17 <spacekitty420[m]> s/</\</, s/me/meme/
09:19:21 <rbrunner> Your question stopped to exist.
09:19:56 <spacekitty420[m]> C) only 25 words
09:19:58 <spacekitty420[m]> C
09:20:12 <decenteroven[m]> Is the monero team in this group?
09:20:27 <spacekitty420[m]> because you'll end up with a 25 words monero seed that can be restored directly into the monero wallet without using hardware wallet
09:20:56 <rbrunner> There is no "Monero team". Something that does not exist can't be here.
09:21:26 <spacekitty420[m]> so A)
09:21:42 <TrasherDK[m]> Or B
09:21:55 <spacekitty420[m]> :hyperthonk:
09:22:06 <rbrunner> Or a Schrödinger's cat like superposition of both answers.
09:22:14 <decenteroven[m]> Is it possible to reach monero by using only these 24 words without using the 25 words added on top of these 24 words?
09:22:41 <spacekitty420[m]> if entered into the ledger, yes i think because that's what ledger does
09:23:00 <decenteroven[m]> Is it possible to reach monero by using only these 24 words without using the 25 words added on top of these 24 words?
09:23:31 <spacekitty420[m]> if entered into the ledger hardware wallet, yes i think so
09:24:15 <decenteroven[m]> Is it possible to reach monero by using only these 24 words without using the 25 words added on top of these 24 words?
09:24:15 <decenteroven[m]>  A-) can only 24 seed   B-) cannot only 24 seed
09:24:16 <decenteroven[m]> A or B?
09:24:22 <spacekitty420[m]> A)
09:24:52 <sech1> are you guys playing a quiz?
09:24:53 <TrasherDK[m]> This has been going on for 3+ hours. Holy shit 🤪
09:25:20 <decenteroven[m]> Is it possible to reach monero by using only these 24 words without using the 25 words added on top of these 24 words?
09:25:20 <decenteroven[m]>  A-) can only 24 seed   B-) cannot only 24 seed
09:25:25 <decenteroven[m]> Are u sure sir
09:25:39 <aremor[m]> ::looking for ways to temp mute this room::
09:25:57 <spacekitty420[m]> A) if using ledger hardware wallet
09:25:57 <spacekitty420[m]> B) if using monero-wallet-cli (or gui)
09:26:00 <rbrunner> Well, I for one would trust a kitty in space.
09:26:13 <rbrunner> Or 420 of those
09:26:18 <spacekitty420[m]> o.o
09:26:22 <aremor[m]> spacekitty420:  you’re in the support room?
09:26:55 <spacekitty420[m]> idk, i dont even know anything about ledger or hardware wallet.....
09:27:44 <rbrunner> The real problem is not to know the answer - it's A) of course - but get through to decenteroven with that.
09:29:09 <sech1> just type "/ignore decenteroven[m]" in your IRC client
09:29:45 <TrasherDK[m]> And miss all the fun. Nooo...
09:29:55 <aremor[m]> That helps if the replies stop also
09:51:30 <spacekitty420[m]> eh, even then, he deleted all his messages and now am fucking bored...
09:51:39 <spacekitty420[m]> yall scared him away or somethin
09:51:39 <spacekitty420[m]> so fuck yall
09:51:39 <spacekitty420[m]> #bored
09:56:53 <Sideburns> hello
09:58:46 <spacekitty420[m]> henlo
10:24:41 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Why does everyone say hello
10:46:42 <dsc_> hello
10:47:03 <dsc_> just wondering; Is it possible to reach monero by using only these 24 words without using the 25 words added on top of these 24 words?
10:47:13 <dsc_> A-) can only 24 seed B-) cannot only 24 seed
10:49:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://nohello.net/en/
11:01:44 <dsc_> ofrnxmr[m]: hi!
11:12:05 <plowsof> the 25th word is the checksum but 24 works yeah
11:13:35 <plowsof> lol i've seen the other messages, ignore
11:13:52 <dsc_> :D
11:32:43 <User[m]> Hello, Guys. Should one be holding monero for long or is it go to go currency? 
11:52:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> What is "go to go currency"
11:52:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes to the former 
11:54:24 <User[m]> Need desktop wallet to store most of coins. What do I use
11:54:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Huh
11:54:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> One step at a time.
11:54:55 <User[m]> 😄👊
11:55:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should one be holding monero for long? Yes
11:55:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is it a go to go currency?
11:55:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont understand the question 
11:56:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Need a desktop wallet for most coins
11:56:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> most coins = all monero? Or you mean shitcoins?
11:58:18 <User[m]> By Go to Go, I meant using monero only at the time of online purchasing or for something anonymous.
11:58:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Both. Use it for both
12:00:54 <User[m]> What will the better price to buy XMR? I am totally new to crypto, lol
12:00:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Desktop wallets for monero: monero gui and feather wallet . Stack wallet as well, but desktop is unfinished
12:00:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> User[m]: Now
12:01:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anything under 180 is a steal imo. But id also say anything under 5k is a steal
12:01:49 <plowsof> price does not exist in -community :( 
12:03:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero is money. I dont look at it like buying
12:04:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> I look at it like im dumping inflated garbage for real money
12:04:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> And not looking back 
12:07:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> User:  if youre USA based, you can use cake wallet (cakepay) to spend monero at (some) stores that only accept government debt bills
12:08:56 <User[m]> Crypto is not even legal where I live, lol.
12:10:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero is legal everywhere ♥️
12:10:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Can you use tor?
12:12:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id recommend making sure you route all of your monero traffic over tor
12:12:39 <User[m]> Yeah, I do use tor.
12:13:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero wallet and node traffic can be analyzed, so tor is a good idea to use both over tor
12:13:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/tor/its/, s/is//
12:15:46 <User[m]> ofrnxmr: Thanks, bro.
12:18:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Personally I run tor nodes on inconspicuous android devices, if thats something youre interested in
12:21:11 <User[m]> Tor On Android, does it need rooting? Never heard of it.
12:22:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Doesn't need rooting 
12:22:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> For wallets: I use invizible pro (fdroid)
12:23:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> For node: I use termux
12:23:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://github.com/nahuhh/android-termux-monero-node/releases/tag/master-beta
14:21:23 <eudaimon36[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Monero wallet and node traffic..." <- What does it mean to run Monero over Tor? How to set this up?
14:25:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Run tor on pc > run monerod with `--proxy 127.0.0.1:9050` flag
14:26:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Iirc, On Ubuntu tor installs as a service by default, so should run on startup
15:17:02 <msvb-web> We just opened the 37C3 (HiP version) Berlin event CFP.
15:18:22 <msvb-web> https://pretalx.c3voc.de/hip-berlin-2022/cfp
15:18:40 <msvb-web> It will be nearly impossible to get entrance tickets to this event (unless you are chosen to speak) so keep this in mind as things get very exciting.
15:50:02 <plowsof> escapethe3ra: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=EhqHyaqC8-c jberman  Seraphis/Jamtis: Feature overview of the proposed upgrade to Monero & Closing . Thank you ajs_ for getting the video up!
15:52:09 <ajs_[m]> it a really rough cut with not that great lighting and sound, but at least it is up 😅
16:02:08 <ajs_[m]> I also finished draft budget for monerokon 2023 https://cryptpad.disroot.org/sheet/#/2/sheet/view/DWRJjhmFhIZSJddgkRDgbEi6gnMMnBFDjxpUPIiOA6Q/embed/
16:02:39 <ajs_[m]> General Admission for 250 euro, Discounted tickets 125 euro for a 3-day event with CCS 60k euro.. assuming we can get the same number of sponsors we got in Lisbon target 300 attendees and we could scale up to 400
16:02:52 <ajs_[m]> here is a 360 degree view of the venue https://www.virtualtravel.cz/praha/holesovice/la-fabrika\
16:03:04 <ajs_[m]> open for comments
16:12:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why is the venue 60k? 
16:13:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Arent venues usually like.. 2-10k/day for 1000+ guests?
16:14:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or what does 60k including on top on the venue? Lambo Limos? Im pulling your leg, but seriously. Do you have a real quote?
16:18:12 <monerobull[m]> Apparently it includes a whole team of people 
16:18:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> And their flights etc?
16:19:34 <monerobull[m]> "3 days + 1 day setup... 5x10m stage, 6 long tables, 12 chairs, 12 bistro tables, PA system, stage lighting, laser projector and screen (610 x 345cm) + support staff (PRODUCTION MANAGER, LIGHT BOARD OPERATOR, SOUND ENGINEER, VIDEO ENGINEER, CLOACKROOM ATT., FIREMAN, CLEANUP)... ~53k EUR"
16:23:55 <ajs_[m]> ofrnxmr: 60k will be amount asked from ccs
16:24:01 <ajs_[m]> see income tab
16:24:02 <plowsof> lets get a ccs idea up for funding soon? is there information that sponsors can view yet? e.g. amounts for certain tiers etc?
16:24:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> ajs_[m]: Cant load spreadsheet on mobile 🫠
16:25:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why ask from ccs and not ticket sales 
16:25:47 <plowsof> 50% from ccs 50% from other sources (is what i've read)
16:26:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry. I should probably read the info if I can. Is there a way to downlaod it
16:35:51 <nioc> 160k cost for everything   
16:35:53 <nioc> income 60k from CCS, tickets 72k,  sponsors/exhibitors 30k
16:36:36 <nioc> cost includes a 10% buffer
16:36:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> 160k 😶‍🌫️
16:37:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Paid speakers?
16:37:38 <nioc> 16k for speaker travel
16:38:56 <nioc> ajs_[m]: is the sponsors/patrons based on the same rate as last year? 
16:39:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Speaker travel is covered by CCS or income? 
16:40:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> How many attended the last one?
16:42:08 <nioc> a very rough guess is 200+
16:42:49 <nioc> there was a number given which I obviously don't remember 
16:43:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> 160k for the last? Lower due to inflation?
16:45:28 <nioc> ofrnxmr[m]: there will be a meeting in #monero-events next Sat
16:46:48 <nioc> not saying that questions here and now are not good :)
16:47:26 <ajs_[m]> ofrnxmr: speakers can apply for a travel grant for up to 800 eur... they would need provide a copy of flight tickets, hotel, local transport.. it is opt-in, not automatic
16:47:56 <nioc> ofrnxmr[m]: please pump so that it becomes easier, please and ty  :)
16:48:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Speakers speak for free? Or are paid?
16:50:43 <ajs_[m]> speakers are not paid
16:51:12 <ajs_[m]> but they can apply for grant if they need funding assistance for travel costs
16:52:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> How many speakers and attendees of the last one?
16:52:54 <ajs_[m]> nioc:  ponsors/patrons rate is slightly higher... Cypherpunk Hero was 7.5k, for next year, I've priced it at 8k
16:53:20 <ajs_[m]> we had around 200 people is Lisbon, for 2023, we are aiming for 300-400
16:54:24 <ajs_[m]> speakers - around 30 i think
16:55:39 <ajs_[m]> attendees - ~200
16:56:15 <ajs_[m]> we are adding 1 more day, so we'll have more talks next year
17:30:01 <monerobull[m]> If someone could share how they felt about the Lisboa talks and the program in general that would help me out with planing for next kon
17:35:22 <spacekitty420[m]> <ajs_[m]> "we are adding 1 more day, so we..." <- will it be on like youtube or twitch or somethin?
17:57:37 <ajs_[m]> spacekitty420: i'll look into getting a hardware encoder so we can live stream directly to youtube/twitch
17:58:35 <ajs_[m]> something like this https://www.kiloview.com/en/encoder/h-265-hardware-encoder/
18:23:54 * m4dire0701[m] uploaded an image: (29KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/t2bot.io/0a8a55a1c2078b0435cdda870a7e4ba5e7d5c476/image.jpeg >
18:41:25 <nioc> Core should love that  o_0
18:43:37 <spacekitty420[m]> as said in the monero-markets channel earlier today, in here evading tax be like just growing your own food so you dont have to pay that VAT at the store buying for it, evading tax can be done legally without even the irs wanting to McAfee your ass o.o
18:45:50 <merope> <m4dire0701[m]> "image.jpeg" <- Imagine thinking that tax evasion is the solution to financial issues
18:46:39 <spacekitty420[m]> tax evasion is the solution to stop funding dumb useless wars being funded by taxes tho
18:47:07 <spacekitty420[m]> well scratch that, they can just print more so nvm
18:48:06 <ceetee[m]> I don't mind paying my fair share, but I fucking hate the burocracy involved which is only in place to help a select few that know the loopholes
18:48:44 <merope> ceetee[m]: A fair point, but that's already a separate issue
18:49:16 <merope> <m4dire0701[m]> "image.jpeg" <- Also: imagine thinking that promoting the (false) equivalency that Monero == tax evaders will actually help Monero in any way
18:50:37 <spacekitty420[m]> i still pay 20% VAT using monero at shopinbit.com, it aint evading shit but it's still a good meme, me likey o.o
18:50:37 <merope> If I wore a tinfoil hat, I'd be tempted to say that shit like this is an active attempt at subversion of the Monero project and its goals (ie. create a fair, private, decentralized, digital currency)
18:51:10 <ceetee[m]> I don't like xmr being framed that way either, but you can't prevent it, so I want to highlight that it isn't inherently evil
18:51:57 <merope> I get the funny memes and all that, but if we keep presenting the project like this everywhere we go, outsiders who don't actually know the details will inevitably start believing this shit
18:52:15 <merope> So it is inherently evil, in a way
18:52:16 <ceetee[m]> If I tip some dude building FOSS (a public good) to cover a fraction of the hosting costs, there shouldnt be taxes on it let alone additional burocracy
18:52:46 <spacekitty420[m]> it's like that meme being like "darknet market?" then the "disaprove face", "decentralized pharmacy" and the thumbup o.o
18:52:46 <spacekitty420[m]> doesnt mean darknet markets are good but is fun meme :3
18:55:24 <merope> ceetee[m]: That's a tax policy matter though - independent from Monero. Any such tax (or lack thereof) would apply the exact same way regardless of your choice of currency - whether dollars, euros, monero, or anything else
18:57:08 <merope> It's important to establish the fact that the answer to the question "What is Monero?" is "Digital cash", not "a tax evasion tool" nor "money for criminals"
18:57:16 <spacekitty420[m]> <ceetee[m]> "If I tip some dude building FOSS..." <- and the tax in that case is just built into the protocol going back to miners
18:57:55 <merope> (tx fees are not a tax though)
18:58:16 <spacekitty420[m]> semantics :P
18:59:42 <merope> So often I see people posting shit like "Monero is a tool for criminals" as if the criminal activity had any relation to Monero whatsoever, when in fact they're really saying "MONEY is a tool for criminals" - because that's what Monero is: money. And anyone can use money to do lots of things, good and bad
19:00:07 <merope> Wanna promote Monero? There's your marketing guideline ^
19:00:55 <ceetee[m]> <merope> "That's a tax policy matter..." <- Well yes, of course. But it was an example why not all tax evasion is evil. And presenting the memes (which cant be prevented) in this way is definitely better than the default base association you already explained
19:02:36 <spacekitty420[m]> merope: that's exactly what i been doing for years, promoting the legal markets without mentioning the dark side
19:02:36 <spacekitty420[m]> like fuck, currently even maintaining a thread about monero on a video game forum and when called out about tax evasion i said the 20% VAT on shopinbit example, been documenting all those legit legal stores and whatnot....
19:02:36 <spacekitty420[m]> meme'ing is good tho <3
19:04:08 <spacekitty420[m]> https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=96310882&f=383
19:04:08 <spacekitty420[m]> maybe am meme'nig too much tho? idk, i like memes aight?? 😹
19:48:42 <Siren[m]> <ceetee[m]> "If I tip some dude building FOSS..." <- Let alone that, I find it unfair that the government tries to tax SaaS, or contract work for system administration, development etc.
19:50:00 <Siren[m]> The government contributes to nothing in these areas. They basically put all our tax money into micro$oft windows licenses for bus stop screens and bus displays. Or proprietary software alike.
20:01:44 <ceetee[m]> In my example there are laws in many cases that a) community service is untaxed and b) net losses are untaxed. So this hypothetical dev wouldn't have to pay any anyway, but still has to deal with the burocracy.
20:01:44 <ceetee[m]> Taxes are not meant like Spotify subscription fees, where you get something you want directly in return. Rather it should be used for the public good in general. Details on where to collect and what to spend on are highly complex and always up for debate
20:18:56 <monerobull[m]> All software paid for with taxes should be FOSS 
20:32:16 <DanIsnotthemanBr> But if your donating to a dev in xmr and they dont swap to fiat, what taxes are they going to pay?
20:33:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ask johnfoss
20:35:06 <spacekitty420[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: VAT is still applicable when paying goods with xmr in europe, swapping to fiat would be the crypto tax which is a different thing
20:35:06 <spacekitty420[m]> then there's those cucks in oz that themselves want to pay that income tax and unrealized tax gains even if they doing a wownero <-> monero trade
20:42:49 <Siren[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "But if your donating to a dev in..." <- In where I live it's not taxable until you convert to fiat. You can choose not to convert ever, then you won't pay income tax.
20:44:24 <spacekitty420[m]> same and for mining, what even is the point of reporting it anyways, aussies would tho 😹
20:49:04 <spacekitty420[m]> and then there's peer to peer trading
20:49:04 <spacekitty420[m]> non-kyc cash by mail local monero, tax eva...wut? :3
20:51:13 <spacekitty420[m]> <m4dire0701[m]> "image.jpeg" <- maybe could do the redirect to haveno instead when it'll be on mainnet 😈
20:54:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Where I live I dont have any overlord. Some doofus calls himself the boss, but he dont give a shit about us
20:54:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wanna spend my taxes on harassing me, they can lick me left and right nuts. That wouldnt be a bad deal
20:55:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Somehow there's TONNEESSS of money to feed and house child molestors
20:55:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> But not homeless people 
20:55:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyway, wrong chat, sorry
20:56:29 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Rage
20:56:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero
20:56:51 <spacekitty420[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: in some backward fucked up countries they even putting them at the head of the country as "president", go figure..... :derp: 
20:57:07 <DanIsnotthemanBr> <Siren[m]> "In where I live it's not taxable..." <- Here you get hit with capital gains tax
20:57:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whole government full of people protecting each other and their own interests, in every country 
20:57:39 <Siren[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: Never report your gains :D
20:57:55 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Naaah there here for the people…..
20:58:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren[m]: Report your losses 🍿
20:58:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: Their* people. Fixed it for yoy
20:58:54 <Siren[m]> If they care so much about the safety of the investors to the point of KYC and taxes, why won't they compensate investors' losses
20:58:54 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Easier to hack my account and fix it
20:59:09 <Siren[m]> Right, they only want to steal from you lmao
20:59:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> I think kyc made the optus data breach worse then it needed to be.
20:59:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> My monero does NOT have a fiat value
21:00:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> And fiat is valueless to me. So what tax? What disposal?
21:00:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its like buying video game tokens. Leave me alone
21:01:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> I believe in taxes, sure. But no I dont not believe in. .. any (?) Major Politician currently in power
21:01:50 <spacekitty420[m]> right, always compared cryptocoins to like world of warcraft in-game gold or pokemon cards or whatever
21:02:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Attacks against "us" all day. Clearly they _want_ to by my enemy
21:02:54 <DanIsnotthemanBr> I still have the holographic ones
21:03:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> In which case, im happy to oblige and help destroy their currency and replace it with a fair system of trade 
21:03:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Learned it from a video game called monero 
21:03:10 <Siren[m]> spacekitty420[m]: There's a game with Monero as its currency :D https://townforge.net/
21:03:37 <spacekitty420[m]> even if technically they also have a usd value (chinese in-game gold farmers, selling them for real usd value), in-game gold is still considered being that to the eyes of govs while cryptocoins aint, just dont make sense to me
21:03:54 <Siren[m]> * There's a game with Monero fork as its currency :D https://townforge.net/
21:04:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pretty sure that is moneromoo's (so, trusted)
21:04:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Technically says who
21:04:45 <spacekitty420[m]> says the market
21:04:47 <Siren[m]> How can government evaluate Monero/fiat price?
21:04:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Delist xmr from exchanges and I cant "trade" it
21:05:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> It doesnt "exist" in the cryptocurrency charts of these cuckchanges
21:05:19 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: Isn't the price listed on exchanges a speculation anyways?
21:06:06 <spacekitty420[m]> Siren[m]: also:
21:06:06 <spacekitty420[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Wownero/comments/y42qmr/wowmud_alpha_launch/
21:06:09 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Still need an on ramp when shit hits the fan.
21:06:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Forcing me to find a way to sell xmr in order to obtain fiat to give to them
21:06:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Asinine
21:06:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yall closed the exchanges 
21:06:42 <Siren[m]> > <@spacekitty420:matrix.org> also:
21:06:42 <Siren[m]> > https://www.reddit.com/r/Wownero/comments/y42qmr/wowmud_alpha_launch/
21:06:42 <Siren[m]> I fucking love rogue-likes
21:06:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Eat an 🍆 or 🍑
21:07:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyway, ofrnxmr for president 
21:08:48 <spacekitty420[m]> president of nwo? o.o
21:09:09 <DanIsnotthemanBr> And then you will make money on the side?
21:09:12 <DanIsnotthemanBr> ;)
21:09:22 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Exactly, they confiscate it and then they have no clue how to sell it
21:09:27 <Siren[m]> Happened in Lithuania
21:09:27 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Speaker roles i think they call it
21:09:52 <Siren[m]> Even governments can't sell it anymore easily
21:10:52 <spacekitty420[m]> wasnt there like an auction for bitcoin they confiscated and it sold at more than market price cause it was considered "clean" bitcoin? so dumb LOL
21:11:15 <Siren[m]> Oh shittt
21:11:30 <Siren[m]> Governments can clean Bitcoin and sell it for profit
21:11:40 <spacekitty420[m]> yup x)
21:11:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> spacekitty420[m]: Call me the broken magnum Trojan horse
21:11:54 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Reminds me of the guy in web of lies make believe
21:11:54 <Siren[m]> If I was a president I would clean Bitcoin and make my country rich
21:12:51 <spacekitty420[m]> dont even have to actually do anything to clean them, just saying that now they're clean and it's done
21:13:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren[m]: What do you think they do with all the bitcoin they steal from exchanges?
21:13:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> You think they arent one ones stealing from US?
21:13:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> They = government 
21:13:55 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Got of out of jail because they used a stringray illegally and all his criminal gains he converted fiat to gold so after he got arrested the gov sold the gold and silver and made more money then he stole.
21:17:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitcoin is fungible, if youre the government 
21:17:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> "You see dirt? Nope. Me neither"
21:18:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> 🕶️
21:18:56 <Morpheus[m]> Hey guys, I'll need two people that can read and write well on Russian and Hindi to translate Trocador.app. I preffer native speakers that can use Github. The person will only have to put some phrases (from only one file) on Google translate and then see if there's something strange with the translation. It's not much work, I'll pay 0.2 XMR to each. Anyone interested, just let me know.
21:19:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Morpheus: there is a Russian translator 
21:19:42 <Morpheus[m]> Who?
21:20:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> v1docq47
21:20:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/329
21:22:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Translation ccs were temporarily halted, but im sure they'd do the work freelance
21:24:39 <Morpheus[m]> Cool, ok thanks bro
23:23:31 <escapethe3ra[m]> plowsof thanks for the reminder, done
23:55:00 <plowsof> some new ccs ideas too https://ccs.getmonero.org/ideas/ have a look, and leave some feedback please 😀 also, the GUPAX p2pool/xmrig gui now has 12 months of maintenance included, i know some supporters havn't left their updoot on it yet 🫡