01:43:27 <doubting_eric[m]> Hello all, I have a couple questions about crypto OPSEC...would buying Dash at a bitcoin ATM, sending via coinjoin/private send to a separate wallet, convert to XMR via atomic swaps and again sending to various addresses make it virtually untraceable once using to purchase things from that last wallet/address? Even if the crypto ATM requires a phone number?
01:50:33 <Mason[m]> <doubting_eric[m]> "Hello all, I have a couple..." <- Why not just buy Bitcoin and atomic swap to Monero? If you're very worried then send that Monero to a secondary Monero wallet first. In either case they will know you bought crypto but not what you finally spent it on
01:52:07 <doubting_eric[m]> Mason[m]: Well I would definitely like to avoid KYC if possible...ATM seemed least amount I guess (cash and just phone number) without waiting a week for cash by mail and that
01:53:23 <Mason[m]> doubting_eric[m]: Yes that's what I'm saying. I assume the ATM sells BTC so skip the other unnecessary steps. AFAIK Monero is already sufficiently private once you get there.
01:54:17 <kowalabearhugs-[> There is no Dash > XMR atomic swap, so you're missing a step to get from Dash to BTC to do a BTC > XMR atomic swap
01:55:40 <doubting_eric[m]> kowalabearhugs-[: Ah yes I did realize that...this is what I meant.
01:55:40 <doubting_eric[m]> I guess my thought is I was just reading a long Wired series about Alpha02 and many of the methods were mentioned about crypto analysis so seems like avoiding KYC at almost any cost is imperative
01:57:13 <kowalabearhugs-[> That's a fair concern, but there is certainly a difference between someone knowing you acquired BTC, or XMR, and knowing what became of it
01:58:20 <kowalabearhugs-[> localmonero is a good bet, or start mining
01:58:52 <kowalabearhugs-[> Or ask around in your local community, friend group, work, etc maybe someone wants to sell a bit
02:04:04 <doubting_eric[m]> Is mining possible with GPU rig? What kind of electric to monero ratio are we talking if this is on the top of your head?
02:04:38 <doubting_eric[m]> I read mining is just expensive hobby after eth merge
02:06:46 <kowalabearhugs-[> Possible, but inefficient to the point of being a net loss. Monero uses an ASIC-resistant algo called RandomX. Due to the requirements AMD cpus are currently the most performant/watt
02:07:39 <kowalabearhugs-[> You won't get rich mining, but it depends on how much you XMR you wish to acquire, your timeline, and the hardware+electricity at your disposal 
02:08:39 <doubting_eric[m]> Ah wow cpu mining
02:08:39 <doubting_eric[m]> Yes not get rich, just acquire anon monero
03:24:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyway
03:25:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> "During a community meeting 3 months ago, it was decided to withold mj's partial payment of milestone 3 (MS3) in the best interests of the community. This would:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/cd24550520bf0c458545d38615690b87f0c19b00>)
03:27:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> "PSA.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/03bcf889ce1156ccea595be84551360b0cff74d8>)
03:28:32 <nioc> what time is tomorrow's meeting?
03:29:02 <plowsof> 16:00UTC 
03:29:45 <nioc> thx
03:30:20 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (248KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/HaIuwSNuBsloomXpOEgKgwtR/Imagepipe_658.jpg >
03:30:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Except for now
03:30:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Now he just does reddit slander campaigns and silent merge requests 
03:32:05 <spacekitty420[m]> will mj attend tomorrow's meeting yet or wat?
03:32:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> I vote if mj doesnt attend, we dont even bother with the fkn topix
03:32:50 <plowsof> endor is attending 
03:32:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> spacekitty420[m]: LOl? Hed rather drink drano'
03:33:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: And?
03:33:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> This issue isnt endors pay
03:33:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Endor isnt making bullshit demands and lawsuits 
03:33:29 <plowsof> would mj be allowed on libera servers after breaking the code of conduct rules?
03:33:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> And its not his oroposal
03:33:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its mjs
03:33:47 <plowsof> ill invite though 
03:33:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Endor is just lucks he's still ALLOWED to work on it 🤡 mj
03:33:50 <spacekitty420[m]> ofrnxmr: i mean.... if u keep doing those rants all day eryday about mj, ill prob keep getting shitfaced u know....
03:34:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its a conspiracy 
03:35:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> LOL. DW Kitty, this BETTER be over tomorrow
03:35:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Otherwise imma start drinking with ya
03:35:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pathetic world. I'll have to go show yall how to do mj better than mj
03:36:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were looking like low hanging fruit over here, 100. Might as well fund raytina and moneroshopping at the same time
03:36:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yolo
03:37:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were just a charity right
03:37:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Community charity system 
03:37:49 <nioc> if I miss tomorrow's meeting I vote to approve the monerokon CCS
03:38:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its a draft 
03:38:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont think its on the table for voting yet
03:38:53 <nioc> I vote to make it  a vote and then vote yes  :D
03:39:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds good
03:40:17 <plowsof> ccs doesnt care about 'extra curricular' activities 
03:40:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fuck yo kids
03:40:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Better be at the meeting 
03:41:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Alpha clearly thinks this is community charity system 
03:41:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> And its obvious why 🥹
03:41:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Even a child begged figured it out
03:42:10 <nioc> I give ooofrnxmr my proxy
03:43:33 <selsta> the project clearly has guidelines https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/docs/CONTRIBUTING.md
03:43:45 <selsta> > Administrators SHOULD block or ban "bad actors" who cause stress and pain to others in the project.
03:44:16 <spacekitty420[m]> nioc stressing me out, wen ban?
03:44:20 <plowsof> interesting 
03:44:22 <spacekitty420[m]> like, he just obnoxious
03:44:26 <selsta> running around threatening and harassing contributors clearly is a violation of it
03:45:31 <plowsof> mj updated the copyright on it 
03:45:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> '''
03:45:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Administrators SHOULD block or ban "bad actors" who cause stress and pain to others in the project. This should be done after public discussion, with a chance for all parties to speak. A bad actor is someone who repeatedly ignores the rules and culture of the project, who is needlessly argumentative or hostile, or who is offensive, and who is unable to self-correct their behavior when asked to do so by others.
03:45:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> '''
03:46:27 <spacekitty420[m]> aw, so obnoxious doesnt qualify for ban then?...
03:46:28 <spacekitty420[m]> F
03:46:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hey mj, can you apologize for ofrnxmr for saying u gonna shoot him?
03:46:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> NO
03:46:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> hahaha
03:46:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Oh well. Good thing I dont care
03:48:19 <cryptogrampy[m]> Was Metronero going to build out a plugin as part of their CCS?
03:48:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stnby: Siren: 
03:49:01 <plowsof> theyre going to update it soon, right 😀^
03:49:31 <plowsof> the contributing is another rule book though 
03:49:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Not the death threats part 
03:50:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> This cocksucker literally threatened me and licked himself from the chat
03:50:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kicked*
03:50:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then went trying to cash out without working
03:50:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rinse wash repeat 
03:50:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Now hes threatening to sue us and get paid without working 
03:51:04 <spacekitty420[m]> sue the ccs?
03:51:10 <spacekitty420[m]> that sound.... very american
03:51:11 <spacekitty420[m]> LOL
03:51:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or selsta
03:51:23 <spacekitty420[m]> sheesh.....
03:51:31 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Xmr court of justice
03:51:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont know who exactly hes referring to. Not me though. You can threaten my life and then sue me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
03:51:46 <plowsof> anyone who slandered him (i assume myself) - i am paradoxically pushing for his payment 
03:52:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof is a scurred kitty
03:52:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> How does nothing change except for the answer 😆
03:52:49 <DanIsnotthemanBr> #defund
03:52:52 <plowsof> to keep the ccs free of "red tape" (its not nice when 'person you like' has a tweet from 2014 uncovered and their enemies want to cancel them for example)
03:53:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Im still cheating on you. Will you forgive me now?"
03:53:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dont be cancellavle 😆😆. Tell 24/25 to share our dms
03:54:59 <plowsof> we want to punish him for being a slime ball. and "not completing the entire project like he promised" but - endor is working on his parts , and needs no help to finish 
03:54:59 <spacekitty420[m]> i mean... at this point is like the whole belienciaga apologizing u know, they gon apologize for being creeps but then what, at the end of the day, they'll still be creeps u know.... 
03:55:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Punish?
03:55:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> So I can lie about my milestones
03:55:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gotcha. Thx
03:56:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im going to make sure when I write my ccs under my new alt, that I change the milstones at will
03:56:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Instead of 50xmr for the first half. I want 25 for the first 25%
03:56:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Let me just lie, sweeten the pot. So people thing the proposal is good
03:57:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then i'm turn around and rug pull the fuck outta u for the 4/5th times
03:58:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whats the point of requesting milestones be combines or split, if the proposer can turn around and threaten their way into modifying them to suit THEIR needs
03:59:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> This changes the product in absolutely no way. The end user has 0 benefit from sucking mj dick
03:59:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just allows mj to exit stage left aka tells mj "its perfectly ok if you scam us one more time. We'll even plan it for you"
04:00:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> There's nothing punishing about telling him to get off Reddit and get working 
04:00:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or go talk to his lawyer because im going to laugh through the entire trial and watch him go to big boy jail for real
04:00:57 <plowsof> he's "done" (and endors hours are safe) 
04:01:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> He's not done until solopt is done
04:01:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> And solopt isnt done until m2/3/4 are done 
04:01:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> A POC =/= "doneI"
04:01:48 <spacekitty420[m]> but even mona lisa took da vinci like 4 whole years and it was never done....
04:02:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> But mj has a list of things that would be completed 
04:02:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not a subjective "done"
04:02:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its literally "1,2 skip a few, 99 100"
04:03:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im dead serious about taking advantage of ccs if bums like mj are getting away with it
04:03:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> And I'll tell real scammers to get on board 
04:04:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Real life snake oil salesmen, not just bums who suck at it and need low hanging fruit
04:04:48 <spacekitty420[m]> then good luck debating semantics about what he considering done or not... pretty sure he has his own definition of it at this point and wont bulge at all... 
04:05:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyway. 🥹 im done. I must wanted to link to meeting + comment.
04:05:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im not saying a single word at the meeting about mh
04:05:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> If he wants to talk, I'll talk. He wont be there and yall still gonna lick his tiny nuts
04:05:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> But you know my vote: he doesnt come, fuck him. He comes, I'll tell him to his face.
04:06:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe I should make some mj threats 
04:07:09 <spacekitty420[m]> like what?
04:07:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is that ok too? I can be petty as him😃 right? We just enable that shit?
04:07:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> spacekitty420[m]: He said he should shoot me, that he didnt need bullets to kill me
04:07:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe I should return the comment?
04:08:15 <plowsof> oh right, because you're ooo123's sock account
04:08:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rihht
04:09:30 * spacekitty420[m] uploaded an image: (443KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/adPvYkoJCRoPytDgKYTWzYYY/image.png >
04:09:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is that mj?
04:10:02 <spacekitty420[m]> is muricans
04:10:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> "I dont need a bullet" mj
04:10:12 <spacekitty420[m]> like, all of murica
04:10:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Shooting me with his fingers 
04:10:21 <spacekitty420[m]> 😹
04:12:44 <spacekitty420[m]> isnt meeting in like 12 hours?
04:14:01 <plowsof> let everyone release their anger the day before, and then sleep on it 
04:14:13 <plowsof> they'll be less mean tomorrow
04:15:06 <spacekitty420[m]> it's same day tho, 4am utc saturday is same day as 4pm utc saturday
04:15:07 <spacekitty420[m]> :hyperthonk: 5head
04:15:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> I'm never mean
04:16:06 <plowsof> you're forcing a developer to starve 
04:16:09 <spacekitty420[m]> u mean to yourself
04:16:24 <plowsof> ...before christmas!
04:18:59 <spacekitty420[m]> santa isnt even real, is a commercial holiday just to make the big corporations even more richer..... so at least that way is basically doing a 🖕 to them by not allowing the support of a capitalist commercial holiday, just sayin
04:23:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> <plowsof> "you're forcing a developer to..." <- A WHAT?
04:23:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Facepalm
04:24:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dont make me make someone have a mental breakdown and shoot up this room
04:24:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> With his fingers
04:25:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Again)
04:25:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Literally all I asked.. "y u no review code"
04:28:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Am I against paying mj? No. Im against paying him before the milestones are completes as-advertised.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/6e5f536f472f0bd8746318dd6a340055d8c82fb9>)
04:31:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> And remember folks. This is me being a nice guy.
04:31:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Of mj wants to play hardball, lets go the legal route and he can slap himself with some charges 
04:32:43 <spacekitty420[m]> snitches dont get the bitches tho :3
04:33:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont press charges, hed press them on himself 
04:33:12 <spacekitty420[m]> being all like calling the popo cause plowsof not paying the ccs
04:33:21 <spacekitty420[m]> ofrnxmr: i meant mj
04:33:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mj Obv doesnt get the bitches 
04:34:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> You know what they say.. "if you cannot find a woman.. you can always find a man"
04:36:11 <spacekitty420[m]> bitches can also be mans, like, yall up in here bitchin about shits all day long 😹
04:36:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> DW Kitty, im no bitch 
04:56:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> In other news.
04:56:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerotopia 2023 is starting to come together 
05:24:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://nitter.net/DouglasTuman/status/1598394154102722560
05:35:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Greetings mj-xmr: 
05:56:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> mj-xmr:  🥹
05:57:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Obligatory facepalm
06:00:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you dont want to wait for the meeting, dont go hide on Github 
06:04:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> And if you want to to off topic and talk about GitHub history and politics, meet me in #monero-offtopic:monero.social 
06:04:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> This exceptional circumstance (reviewing an in process proposals attempt to change the proposal terms) is here because youre requesting exceptions via merge requests and Reddit campaigns 
06:05:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you claim "joint proposal"
06:05:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dishonest as they come. One day its a joint proposal, the next day its yours and endor is only allowed to work on the project. 
06:05:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Make ya fucking mind up
06:12:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> (In response to his latest GitHub comments)
06:13:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> * (Response to his latest GitHub comments. Not just talking to myself)
09:48:47 <Siren[m]> <cryptogrampy[m]> "Was Metronero going to build out..." <- Yes. We'll update the CCS in a few hours.
09:49:01 <Siren[m]> Basically to write down what we agreed on last meeting
09:52:31 <Siren[m]> I'm also really interested in building a Monero ATM now :D But I don't think I'll submit a proposal for it
09:53:39 <Siren[m]> The only expensive part is the cash acceptor (100€) , the rest I already own 
09:55:23 <Siren[m]> Cash dispensers look like they're not available to the general public any way more expensive. So that's not an option, I'll probably print a thermal paper voucher for people looking to withdraw euros
09:56:32 <Siren[m]> The other problem is I don't own a laser cutter or a 3d printer for the ATM housing. :(
10:39:04 <monerobull[m]> Meeting when again
10:39:25 <Siren[m]> 16:00 UTC
10:39:31 <Siren[m]> Today
10:46:11 <monerobull[m]> Thats 17:00 Berlin and 11:00 new York
10:49:28 <Siren[m]> 17:00 Bydgoszcz
10:51:13 <paalaa[m]> Siren[m]: Are you from poland
10:52:31 <Siren[m]> No
10:52:40 <paalaa[m]> Siren[m]: Where
10:53:50 <paalaa[m]> Siren[m]: Kazakhstan
10:56:14 <Siren[m]> paalaa[m]: الديك عشر  bruh بوصات لأمك
10:59:17 <paalaa[m]> Siren[m]: I loved you a lot.  Is your anus beautiful?
11:02:44 <Siren[m]> plowsof: he's back
11:04:39 <paalaa[m]> <Siren[m]> "الديك عشر  bruh بوصات لأمك" <- Hey siren. I want to fuck your ass hole.
11:04:49 <paalaa[m]> Anal sex
11:05:13 <paalaa[m]> <Siren[m]> "الديك عشر  bruh بوصات لأمك" <- I will fuck your ass hole.
11:05:31 <paalaa[m]> 🖕👌
12:11:16 <Siren[m]> How do maintanence milestones in CCS proposals work?
12:11:32 <Siren[m]> Is it necessary to have these milestones?
13:16:05 <plowsof> yep meeting today 16:00UTC https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/759 
13:18:58 <plowsof> maintenance is an 'after care' contract (instead of a promise) so it helps proposals gain support 
13:20:04 <plowsof> if a hardfork happens and major things have to be re-done to 'keep something working' during the maintenance period 
13:21:23 <plowsof> or bugs are found - then its expected to be fixed quick (because its being paid for)
13:46:03 <plowsof> in other news , monero shopping updated their asking amount to 0 
13:47:07 <MoneroBro> Thats right and its a Draft now!
13:47:45 <MoneroBro> We hope it eliminates the confusion about the MOnero.Shopping proposal
13:50:02 <MoneroBro> Thank you again for all the feedback!
13:55:43 <plowsof> welcome MoneroBro 
13:56:16 <MoneroBro> Thank you for the invitation and hey there Monero-People!
13:57:11 <plowsof> what do you want us to discuss in the meeting today?
13:57:58 <MoneroBro> All we are asking for is time to let the Idea of Monero.Shopping evolve and produce some fruits and/or spawn new ideas.
14:03:18 <plowsof> yeah thats happened already. until you/your team show you're capable of achieving anything we have nothing new to discuss 
14:06:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> <MoneroBro> "Thats right and its a Draft now!" <- No, its not
14:08:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> You changed it to "draft" because youre trying to bend the rules and extend your evaluation period.
14:08:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> The proposal was never well thought out and still isnt. Its 100% unrealistic 
14:08:40 <MoneroBro> Maybe I misiterpret the point of Monero CCS but isnt it supposed to be a place to bring forward ideas and disccuss them rather then presenting fully developed projects?
14:09:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> CCS is a place to raise funds for projects / devs / ecosystem after a short evaluation period 
14:10:01 <MoneroBro> ofrnxmr[m] Thats not how I read it : https://ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/
14:11:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> #5 Repeat steps 3 and 4 as needed.
14:11:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> We've reached loose consensus already 
14:11:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hence why you should have planned better.
14:13:14 <MoneroBro> I still dont see what we are doing wrong here, its clearly an Idea worth exploring.
14:14:29 <MoneroBro> We are not asking for money, we are asking to use the Monero CCS as intended.
14:14:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Your idea isnt dead, but personally I have no interest in even continuing conversation until youre finished doing your homeworl
14:15:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont even know if this is possible
14:15:41 <MoneroBro> Yes, thats what an idea is and thats why its in the "Ideas" section of the Monero CCS
14:15:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> MoneroBro: As intended = you wont make it past the idea stage 
14:16:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Unless your idea is viable and worth the amount youre asking.
14:16:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> MoneroBro: Ideally 4 weeks or less from idea > decision 
14:17:34 <MoneroBro> " Ideally 4 weeks or less from idea > decision " where does it state that?
14:17:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thank you for the input @sausagenoods , we hope to find a solution that lets us operate as a eCommerce service provider and not a currency exchange to avoid licensing, audits and all the other fun stuff.
14:17:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Meaning: close your proposal before. Do your homework before wasting our resources. If you knew this, why did you not deal with it first? "We hope" is very reassuring /s
14:20:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont get to "live" in the ideas section.
14:20:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Again, you've done nothing but speak pretty words 
14:20:42 <MoneroBro> We dont know a lot of things yet, thats why we created this proposal, to have a place for discussion.
14:22:38 <MoneroBro> ofrnxmr[m] What is the Idea section for in your opinion?
14:23:10 <nioc> not a place for developing your idea 
14:24:00 <nioc> fine tuning from communities input yes
14:24:16 <Siren[m]> <MoneroBro> "All we are asking for is time to..." <- Come back when that happens
14:26:32 <Siren[m]> <MoneroBro> "We dont know a lot of things yet..." <- You can always discuss here or in other Monero groups without having to submit a proposal. Your proposal should happen after you know how to do things.
14:30:18 <MoneroBro> Siren[m] Thats not how we interpret the Monero CCS rules. Our proposal is a point of discussion to link other to.
14:30:47 <Siren[m]> Well the way how you interpret it doesn't matter 😄
14:30:52 <Siren[m]> It isn't for this
14:31:16 <MoneroBro> For what is it then?
14:31:24 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: ^
14:31:34 <Siren[m]> <nioc> "not a place for developing..." <- ^
14:32:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> ^^^
14:32:53 <MoneroBro> There are many different types of proposals, all with their own goals in mind. In the past, we have seen things from coding new software, developing third party resources, travel reimbursement for conference presenters, and hiring skilled individuals for full-time or part-time work.
14:32:53 <MoneroBro> The CCS is a way for the community to propose ideas and request money, while utilizing the services of the Core Team as an escrow.
14:33:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you proposed a badly unfinished idea
14:34:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Go back to the drawing board, and come with a well thought out idea when its well thought out 
14:34:05 <MoneroBro> All Ideas have to start somewhere.
14:34:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, not on ccs
14:34:28 <Siren[m]> MoneroBro: You should probably close it for now but keep in touch with us through Matrix. And come back when you have a demo with automation and a minimal working browser extension. You should also research the legality of this service. What's the use for us if you get arrested and your service seized half way?
14:34:37 <plowsof> the idea started already, and you have enough feedback to act 
14:35:24 <plowsof> theres no point discussing it at the meeting is there
14:36:12 <plowsof> more ideas? a longer proposal? what do you want 
14:37:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> I want all the neros
14:37:49 <nioc> wow
14:37:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> We have time before the meeting. Feel free to discuss now
14:38:57 <MoneroBro> All we want from the Monero CCS Team is for the Proposal to remain open so we have a central point of discussion for how to achieve a service like Monero.Shopping.
14:39:36 <plowsof> sell the url and pay for some developers to help you
14:39:49 <plowsof> bitcoin .shopping is currently at 200kusd
14:40:19 <Siren[m]> MoneroBro: That's not how it works, the central point of discussion is here.
14:42:13 <Siren[m]> What's keeping you from not chatting in here?
14:42:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> For weeks
14:42:36 <Siren[m]> You're already here.
14:42:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just meme talk on GitLab wasting out time
14:43:02 <Siren[m]> Before you joined with this MoneroBro account you were still lurking in this chat
14:43:21 <plowsof> screenshots via matrix, talking via irc
14:44:05 <MoneroBro> Yes, we are here to be part of the community!
14:44:08 <Siren[m]> I see no reasons for your proposal to stay open. But you can keep discussing with us here and you can always submit another proposal later on.
14:44:16 <MoneroBro> MOnitoring all the news and chats all the tim!
14:44:29 <plowsof> thank you for joining today MoneroBro ! 
14:45:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thanks monerobro. Hope to hear some updates in the future before we try this again
14:45:20 <MoneroBro> I am glad to join and we are really happy to have found Monero andthe Monero CCS!
14:45:43 <Siren[m]> Can you tell us more about your team?
14:47:32 <plowsof> what is 24/25 words made a monerobro account is is trolling us 
14:47:44 <plowsof> if .. and is
14:47:48 <Siren[m]> I do think it's the same person btw
14:47:48 <MoneroBro> So just to summarize, its is only "allowed" to propose if we already have a functional prototype and a fully tough out idea?
14:48:13 <Siren[m]> MoneroBro: Yes
14:48:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> As close to it as possible, yes
14:48:49 <plowsof> studies the rulebook
14:49:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> edits the rulebook
14:49:35 <plowsof> i would say you dont need a functional idea - until the feedback tells you that you do
14:50:42 <merope> Am I reading it wrong, or are you asking for funds to develop a for-profit store that you intend to run when it's finished?
14:51:11 <MoneroBro> "i would say you dont need a functional idea - until the feedback tells you that you do" - I dont really get that oO
14:51:32 <merope> If so, what you need is startup capital - and crowdfunded donations are not the right avenue for that
14:51:38 <plowsof> i can put a  ccs idea up to "set up a lemonade stand" 
14:52:07 <plowsof> do i have a function lemonade stand? no, but i can prove ive made lemonade before 
14:53:21 <nioc> yes we are not venture capital 
14:53:28 <plowsof> notice how he puts "allowed" in quotes 
14:54:03 <Siren[m]> MoneroBro: We told you that you need a functional demo or show us your previous work. Apart from that you need to even out your milestones (why did you even have exchange related functionalities there at some point??)  These are completely different than what you're trying to make.
14:54:19 <monerobull[m]> What ccs is it this time
14:54:30 <Siren[m]> Monero.shopping
14:54:43 <plowsof> more feedback for you monerobro - the idea is so huge we dont even know what it is 
14:54:55 <monerobull[m]> Did something change?
14:55:04 <plowsof> no
14:55:50 <plowsof> has not acted any any feedback 
14:55:56 <plowsof> s/any/on
14:56:20 <Siren[m]> He acts like he's trying to scam us
14:57:02 <MoneroBro> plowsof "the idea is so huge we dont even know what it is " - Thank you! I get that the Idea is ambisious but if it wasn't it wouldnt be worth persuing.
14:57:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> More pretty tslk
14:57:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1 hr til we close it
14:57:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Clocks ticking 
14:57:34 <Siren[m]> <MoneroBro> "There are many different types..." <- Dismissing valid feedback and questions with random text
14:57:34 <monerobull[m]> I like the "buy for me" marketplace idea but you could just implement that in Haveno without spending 100k
14:58:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof:  wheres ray
14:58:39 <MoneroBro> I am just trying to understand all the push-back for the  Monero.Shopping Proposal... I mean the fact that a service that allows you to spend MOnero on major Marketplkaces would be awesome is uncontested.
14:58:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> You want more xmr than anyone ever before
14:58:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> For an idea that is as good as monerotesla
14:59:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Aka, there is no idea 
14:59:11 <Siren[m]> MoneroBro: Do you not know how to read?
14:59:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just a mess of cobwebs and brain storms 
14:59:38 <Siren[m]> The idea might be uncontested but you haven't proven yourself to be capable of implementing such project
14:59:40 <MoneroBro> Siren[m] "Do you not know how to read?" - thats unproductive
14:59:47 <monerobull[m]> I can now spend monero everywhere that accepts crypto thanks to trocador 
15:00:07 <Siren[m]> That's all you can say??
15:00:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its ok siren. Lets sit back and leave the last hour to to them
15:00:25 <plowsof> mobile wallets that let you convert monero into giftcards on the fly 🚀
15:00:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Shhhhhh
15:00:55 <plowsof> imagine if monero shopping had a mobile app
15:01:07 <plowsof> that would be amazing
15:01:21 <monerobull[m]> And another 60k$
15:01:31 <Siren[m]> They should go to a startup accelerator 
15:01:36 <Siren[m]> Try their luck there
15:02:16 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: These will find them funding and mentor them on legality, sales etc.
15:02:17 <plowsof> what if we got a contract with a factory to produce those mobile phones.. it would be the first "monero" phone.. imagine the exposure... superbowl adverts you name it
15:02:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Try their luck with an idea that isnt well thought out? They'll be laughed out of any and every room
15:02:41 <Siren[m]> Yeah but at least we won't be the ones dealing with them
15:03:31 <Siren[m]> plowsof: We can contract hot air balloon companies to get them build and fly Monero themed hot air balloons.
15:03:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "plowsof:  wheres ray" <- ^
15:03:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> I sent him an invite 
15:04:04 <monerobull[m]> Can we buy a SpaceX t-shirt from their merch store and call it a partnership?
15:04:06 <plowsof> his temp ban is over 
15:04:16 * Siren[m] uploaded an image: (136KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/badikkfQxbWLobbbfqFsgakN/IMG20221010170342.jpg >
15:04:25 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: For example these are all ads
15:04:36 <plowsof> wow 
15:04:41 <Siren[m]> * We can contact hot air balloon companies to get them build and fly Monero themed hot air balloons.
15:04:54 <monerobull[m]> They have to be expensive 
15:04:56 <plowsof> what if we circumnavigate the globe , but like. everything sponsored by monero
15:05:07 <plowsof> using a balloon??
15:05:16 <nioc> we already made a monero sail for a racing boat
15:05:34 <plowsof> woww
15:05:38 <MoneroBro> I like the creativity in here!
15:05:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerobro
15:05:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Focus on your proposal
15:05:51 <nioc> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:05:51 <merope> There used to be a racing car/driver sponsored by M5M400 with a big Monero logo on it
15:05:52 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: They are. But if Lithuanian companies can afford it :)
15:06:05 <nioc> merope: yeah, it crashed  :(
15:06:06 <plowsof> monerobro you have inspired me to not think in my little "box" 
15:06:08 <monerobull[m]> Can we sponsor rocket labs instead 
15:06:17 <Siren[m]> Maybe I'll try emailing few of these companies to get a price and tell you guys. Out of curiosity.
15:06:19 <MoneroBro> plowsof Glad to help!
15:08:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren[m]: #monero-outreach:monero.social 
15:09:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lets stretch our arms in 2023
15:11:29 <nioc> btw the monero sail long ago was not a good idea but people were so hungry at that time for anything that $$ was raised
15:12:41 <plowsof> scientology have a boat
15:13:18 <plowsof> if we made monero a religion think of the possibilities
15:13:35 <nioc> since then the basic rules were refined  
15:13:53 <nioc> plowsof: that's been tried
15:14:02 <plowsof> lol
15:14:05 <nioc> "church of Monero"
15:14:14 <monerobull[m]> We did have the church if Monero 
15:14:21 <plowsof> amazing
15:14:41 <nioc> they had services where they sent txs around
15:14:50 <nioc> dox much?
15:15:11 <monerobull[m]> Sub addresses?
15:15:28 <nioc> b4 subaddresses I believe
15:15:34 <monerobull[m]> Lol
15:16:10 <nioc> another person that wanted to use the CCS in creative ways 
15:16:38 <nioc> back then it was the better named FFS
15:17:14 <nioc> looks like I will miss today's meeting, might be there in the beginning 
15:18:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ok
15:18:38 <plowsof> metronero have updated their proposal just now also https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/353
15:35:36 <MoneroBro> Wait a minute, there actually was a "Church of Monero" ? ... i have to find out more oO
15:36:36 <MoneroBro> Oh, it turned out to be a scam i guess : https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/asqrbu/church_of_monero_enough_is_enough_how_the_leader/
15:38:41 <merope> Originally it was a thing where users would send like 0.1 xmr to eachother weekly to generate more outputs on the chain, in the hope of making it more difficult to analyze the transaction graph
15:39:14 <merope> (or at least: that was the first time I saw mention of it)
15:41:36 <MoneroBro> merope: Thats hilarious!
15:48:23 <nioc> " I do not think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday"  -Abraham Lincoln
15:58:48 <NotMtth[m]> Heyo
15:58:51 <NotMtth[m]> What's up guys?
15:59:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Awaiting the start of the meeting 
15:59:16 <NotMtth[m]> Me too :)
15:59:37 <NotMtth[m]> Sup escapethe3ra, nice to see you 
16:00:05 <escapethe3ra[m]> damn Matrix, spotted me
16:00:07 <plowsof> Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/759
16:00:22 <plowsof> hi 
16:00:26 <selenze[m]> escapethe3ra: its important you are here then
16:00:27 <escapethe3ra[m]> hi NotMtth :)
16:00:27 <Stnby[m]> Greetings
16:00:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hello
16:00:27 <Siren[m]> Helloo
16:00:28 <NotMtth[m]> escapethe3ra[m]: Xd
16:00:34 <plowsof> luigi1111 (not certain of presence today)
16:00:37 <leito[m]> greetings
16:00:55 <NotMtth[m]> Sup sup
16:01:09 <NotMtth[m]> selenze[m]: It is :)
16:01:10 <plowsof> mj-xmr and endor00 are here i believe 
16:01:16 <mj-xmr[m]> Present
16:01:24 <merope> Yep
16:01:36 <gnuteardrops[m]> hi
16:01:40 <NotMtth[m]> Hey gnuteardrops
16:01:46 <plowsof> would you like to say something first mj-xmr / endor?
16:01:50 <ajs_[m]> Hello
16:02:10 <mj-xmr[m]> No. I said everything basically. I'm happy that we could wrap up the review.
16:02:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lets get started on news
16:02:33 <merope> Same here
16:02:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Same here :)
16:03:39 <selenze[m]> halo from little brother here
16:04:06 <plowsof> i have left a statement regarding the situation. i am of the opinion work has been done / the contributing code of conduct applies to 'extra curricular activities'. and does not effect payment for hours worked in a ccs. endor will take the work provided by mj and complete the project (without the need of any help) 
16:04:24 <hinto[m]> hello
16:04:28 <monerobull[m]> Hello
16:04:50 <NotMtth[m]> Hello there 
16:05:08 <mj-xmr[m]> plowsof: Looks good to me. Especially since this doesn't hinder my payment and will allow Endor to work more independently.
16:05:18 <mj-xmr[m]> That's a learning experience.
16:06:15 <plowsof> i do however support applying the code of conduct rules (for your behaviour outside of the ccs) but thats a separate matter 
16:06:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Am I against paying mj? No. Im against paying him before the milestones are completes as-advertised.
16:06:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2 reasons.
16:06:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1. He guaranteed, in writing, in the proposal, that he would own project and complete all parts
16:06:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2. He never asked through any proper channels. He just tried to lie cheat and steal
16:07:18 <plowsof> reg time: we do not have to discuss paper wallet / monero shopping / monero archive or bp++ 
16:07:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> As stated in #2 - its the same issue
16:07:30 <Siren[m]> From the sounds of his proposal mj took a managerial role to ensure completion
16:07:51 <Siren[m]> Or was supposed to*
16:07:52 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: All close?
16:08:12 <MoneroBro> Whats the "Verdict" on M0nero.Shopping?
16:08:14 <plowsof> the guarantee of completion - endor has almost completed ms2 - and has worked on m3/m4 - mj is not going to get any of endors hours currently.
16:08:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> And in the comments he owns the project and endor is only allowed to participate.
16:08:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Messy. Not our problem. Pay as-advertised
16:08:52 <Siren[m]> MoneroBro: We'll get to that later
16:09:07 <plowsof> if endor had abandoned the project entirely (he hasn't) then mj must complete 
16:09:16 <merope> plowsof: I have not worked on m3/m4 yet, only mj so far. My part is independent though
16:09:23 <mj-xmr[m]> plowsof: It's fine. It was a shock for me at the beginning, but if endor strives to put in so much work and will hold on to the promise, it's only better for the project and its recipients.
16:09:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont believe the promises of liars and cheats
16:09:54 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: I'm interested in this, would CoC prevent something like funding desnakes decentralized alphabay? (Not that he needs our money😂)
16:10:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who write guarantees and try to merge request their way out of them
16:10:20 <plowsof> endor can indeed complete without any extra help - so mj has completed all of his work 
16:10:51 <selenze[m]> mj-xmr[m]: I conquer without wasint time, if he had the managerial authority from the first, then he should work on it to complete the project or invite some other or even bring forward if there are any issues between the two where the community may intervene.
16:10:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mj's work involves completing the entire project. Otherwise this is not the proposal that was agreed upon
16:11:35 <plowsof> we've decided mj is not claiming any of endors hours (so he would have to complete the entire project for free - and he cant  , because endors speciality is the missing pieces) 
16:11:48 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: Well if it ensures making death threats etc. gets in the way of funding, I think it would be effective.
16:11:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Again, I dont remember mj ever requesting, but demanding pay that was not as agreed
16:12:23 <monerobull[m]> Kinda agree with ofrnxmr. We can't have teams apply for ccs, break up, pay out and be left with a half-baked result
16:12:25 <mj-xmr[m]> I did work my arse out to complete it. Inviting others would have to mean either kicking endor out which would be really filthy, or abusing the budget which didn't suffice for that either.
16:12:46 <monerobull[m]> But if soloptxmr works as advertised there's no reason not to pay out Mjs work
16:12:46 <plowsof> the ccs is as little red tape as possible - these egregious acts (behaviour etc) need to be punished outside of the ccs system - which is simply work done , work paid - endor has the framework to complete the entire project  
16:12:57 <nioc> so no endor hours but also milestones not completed 
16:13:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Kicking endor out" "joint proposal"
16:13:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lets vote
16:13:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> I vote no to the exception 
16:13:42 <plowsof> milestone 1 - minimum viable product - paid out. 
16:13:54 <plowsof> the rest are additions of documentation / readings from sensors / automation - all done
16:14:07 <plowsof> 96 hours * 2 of work done 
16:14:11 <monerobull[m]> Kind of out of the loop, what does endor even need to do at this point?
16:14:24 <mj-xmr[m]> There's a plenty of documentation there from me, indeed. 
16:14:39 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: Make sure it runs on other hardware, not just mj's setup (homeassistant)
16:14:52 <Siren[m]> * Make sure it runs on other hardware, not just mj's setup (aka integrating homeassistant)
16:14:52 <merope> monerobull[m]: mj's part of m3+m4 is done, so he did deliver that. and my work on those milestones is parallel/independent from that, so there's no reason to hold back his payment for it
16:15:01 <mj-xmr[m]> Siren: For that I used Github's actions.
16:15:01 <plowsof> "with initial setup effort" it works as claimed 
16:15:08 <Stnby[m]> Can we continue on this topic later?
16:15:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stnby[m]: Lets come back right before the hour is up??
16:16:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Running in short time lets go
16:16:36 <selenze[m]> I vote this should't happen again, hence not to see it separately but as a whole with full management and authority of projects on someone 
16:17:13 <plowsof> right, ok, will make a decision with luigi 
16:17:18 <Siren[m]> I suggest we do not forbid teams working together but perhaps introduce a penalty
16:17:36 <Siren[m]> * forbid teams from working together
16:17:36 <monerobull[m]> is this the first time something like this happaned
16:17:39 <Siren[m]> Seems so
16:17:44 <merope> Siren[m]: why would you ever penalize teams?
16:18:05 <plowsof> every ruling is a precedent so its very important (and will be applied to 'people you like' one day) 
16:18:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: No
16:18:07 <monerobull[m]> merope: if they split up?
16:18:11 <plowsof> anyway we've all had our input i think
16:18:13 <Siren[m]> merope: So this type of thing doesn't happen. So people don't take on managerial tasks when they clearly can't manage.
16:18:21 <Stnby[m]> What penalty? If your team fucks up and shit like this happens, you will have hard time getting accepted in CCS next time
16:18:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Were coming back to vote at the end ofnthe meeting
16:18:22 <mj-xmr[m]> monerobull[m]: Actually inverse things happened - projects were not finalized even though there were payouts. Here I had no payout for my M3, but finalized anyway. 
16:18:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> For "my" m3
16:18:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> What am imagination you have 
16:19:04 <plowsof> right lets move on to the other ideas (skipping paper wallets as they want to close it)
16:19:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> There is one m3, not 2. Mr merge request
16:19:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Please. Running low on time
16:19:20 <plowsof>   b. [Metronero checkout](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/353)    
16:19:30 <mj-xmr[m]> Stnby[m]: Or the quite the opposite - if you're not treated right, you'll never start a CCS Proposal again.
16:19:40 <Siren[m]> Good
16:19:44 <plowsof> they have updated their proposal within the last hour (metronero) so needs some thoughts / opinions 
16:19:44 <Siren[m]> Good now metronero
16:19:52 <monerobull[m]> metronero looks decent from what ive heard, are they ready? any new problems since last meeting=?
16:20:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mertronero checkout as I understand is 230xmr total and includes 1 year dog custodial service + maintenance (post release)for free?
16:20:08 <plowsof> plugins have been requested + maintenance in the last meeting
16:20:18 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: We are asking for more XMR now due to the addition of 2 more milestones
16:20:32 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: These two milestones are for plugins and maintanence
16:20:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Compared to Previously 100xmr without plugins, maintenance or custodial service 
16:20:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is this correct?
16:21:04 <Siren[m]> Correct 
16:21:06 <monerobull[m]> i like the hosting of feeless custodial version
16:21:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Same ^ allows for adoption to take place faster 
16:21:38 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]: Yes last milestone is hosting + code naintenance of  custodial feeless instance
16:21:39 <monerobull[m]> woocommerce plugin too
16:22:01 <Stnby[m]> Woocomerce and Syllius
16:22:12 <monerobull[m]> would xmr halving in price halt development?
16:22:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> cryptogrampy: 
16:22:32 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: No
16:23:07 <monerobull[m]> sounds good
16:23:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is there a timeline for delivery 
16:24:00 <Siren[m]> We'll start as soon as it gets merged and then it should be within the weeks specified in the milestones? So about 10 weeks 
16:24:08 <Siren[m]> And another 5 for plugins
16:24:21 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: We might be done earlier than 5 weeks
16:24:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds good
16:24:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Was just wondering)
16:24:47 <Stnby[m]> Plugins might require a head start to see the required api functionality
16:25:01 <Stnby[m]> But we are 2 people and can work concurrently
16:25:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> And in the case one if you falls off the earth?
16:26:11 <plowsof> then we use precedent to decide what happens .. 
16:26:13 <Stnby[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I guess the amount stays same but time of delivery is far longer
16:26:21 <selenze[m]> any specific reason why you chose the Affero license.
16:26:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> The other will complete? No secret merge requests for half pay?
16:26:34 <Siren[m]> Nice question ;) honestly whatever the community agrees on. We won't sue or give you 2 weeks to resolve or anything.
16:26:51 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: please no. we want to fund stuff that actually gets finished as proposed
16:26:53 <Stnby[m]> selenze[m]: So no one steals the code and make a proprietary custodial instance
16:26:55 <Siren[m]> selenze[m]: In addition to GPLv3 it offers protection for SaaS
16:27:10 <monerobull[m]> the first case of a problem happening should lead to solid rules for next time
16:28:21 <plowsof> because the changes are so new, its not expected for a decision right now, we need more eyes on the proposal // advertising / updoots . i am supportive of the proposal and the team 
16:28:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were about 10 minutes.  licencing to be confirmed by core b4 merge, are we ready to vote?
16:28:43 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: Maybe in that case it would make sense to cancel proposals immediately and payout, have the members submit separate proposals if they wanna keep working on it.
16:28:50 <plowsof> if yo uwant to voice your vote on it that would be helpful yes
16:29:24 <monerobull[m]> Siren[m]: that leaves us paying for unfinished projects, which we dont want to do
16:29:51 <hinto[m]> should maintenance + xmr volatility be discussed per ccs? i feel like it's common enough where there should be some common guidelines, or is that too much red tape?
16:30:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not volitility.
16:30:32 <monerobull[m]> some people are based and would work no matter how much the price changes. others should go to MAGIC...
16:30:33 <merope> volatility risk is on the proposer, this has been discussed before
16:30:38 <plowsof> ask / expect the proposer provide deadlines to complete the work 'or else' (or else what)
16:30:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Your rates should be in xmr and you should accept what you ask for. Or use a platform that respects fiatm
16:30:51 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: We saw cases where companies were taking GPLv3 projects such nextcloud and offer a paid file storage service to their customers. Which technically isn't a GPLv3 violation but that would certainly violate AGPL
16:31:01 <merope> nobody complains if their xmr were to increase in value, and it would be unreasonable to pay them less xmr in that case
16:31:11 <Siren[m]> * We saw cases where companies were taking GPLv3 projects such nextcloud and offering a paid file storage service to their customers. Which technically isn't a GPLv3 violation but that would certainly violate AGPL
16:31:11 <merope> which means that the same must apply in case of decreases
16:31:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wer burning the clock. If were voting I vote move to funding with approval from core on the license
16:31:34 <monerobull[m]> +1
16:32:17 <ajs_[m]> Regarding licensing, we talked about the issue before and made a PR to have clarify this issue, but it was never merged and I closed it  https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-front/-/merge_requests/34/diffs
16:32:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyone voting no or hold?
16:32:25 <monerobull[m]> Total so far: 3 (irc doesnt do reactions, right?)
16:33:15 <mj-xmr[m]> <Siren[m]> "Nice question ;) honestly..." <- OK. I'm very happy that my situation helps you to shine. Anytime is great time to pump yo rep.
16:33:21 <plowsof> in this case, we just need more eyes on it, and updoots as its new changes
16:33:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were all looking at it now.
16:33:51 <selenze[m]> merope: I think projects should only be specified in XMR only ...leaving the economics to the proposer
16:33:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> And we have a healthy attendance 
16:34:24 <selenze[m]> And can someone knowledgeable on all this stuff comment it
16:34:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> The changes were requested changes 
16:34:36 <monerobull[m]> theres like 10 people here but only 3 voted
16:34:37 <Stnby[m]> selenze[m]: Obviously it can increase it can decrease, not like in case of XMR value increase people lower their CCS
16:34:54 <Stnby[m]> * Obviously it can increase it can decrease, not like in case of XMR value increase people lower their CCS amounts
16:34:55 <plowsof> as a rule of thumb: major milestone changes an hour ago require some time to think about 
16:34:56 <merope> selenze[m]: That's exactly how it is right now. People typically include the fiat equivalent in the calculation to show how they came up with the numbers, but only the final xmr figure matters
16:35:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right. So shall people vote no or to wait?
16:35:51 <selenze[m]> merope: I think the calculations made on the page should be eliminated from now on.
16:36:20 <spacekitty420[m]> selenze[m]: like been saying for years, fiat valuation fluctuates but cost of mining doesnt fluctuates as much so when making one of those proposal it would be better (imo) to think in term of cost of mining rather than fiat value
16:36:28 <Stnby[m]> selenze[m]: Even monerokon ccs has calculations :)
16:36:32 <plowsof> will spread/advertise the new changes and get more feedback / updoots for metronero. 
16:36:35 <selenze[m]> plowsof: my vote is to hold on for sometime until some comments enrich it or we do some research on this
16:36:48 <plowsof>   d. [CypherPunk Radio](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/357)    
16:37:03 <NotMtth[m]> TIme has come 
16:37:06 <plowsof> last meeting we wanted to see some code or proof of concepts NotMtth 
16:37:07 <NotMtth[m]>  * Time has come 
16:37:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im abstaining from vote on radio.
16:37:21 <monerobull[m]> did they release any interviews already?
16:37:21 <plowsof> do you have anything to share
16:37:43 <leito[m]> did I miss c.  [xmr-btc-swap development and improvement](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/355)?
16:37:46 <plowsof> oops
16:37:50 <selenze[m]> the content it provides is not satisfying, I thought it would be on to monero mainly
16:38:01 <plowsof> apologies leito 
16:38:06 <hinto[m]> selenze[m]: agreed
16:38:22 <NotMtth[m]> Yes, currently something is online, like the I2P domain.
16:38:22 <NotMtth[m]> I still working on the stack, that will be based on a central API.
16:38:23 <NotMtth[m]> Still doing some work and I will update the CCS as I deploy the test servers out 
16:38:36 <leito[m]> plowsof: no worries, got some update on it when we go on topic
16:39:03 <plowsof> ok nice, get those changes added onto the ccs proposal so people can see (then people can make a more informed decision)
16:39:06 <NotMtth[m]> cypherpunk.i2p is the I2P mirror, that is just a raw thing for now  
16:39:46 <plowsof> we'll look and provide feedback on your new developments NotMtth 
16:40:06 <NotMtth[m]> plowsof: As we discussed I will, it's not complete and I have to do more work on it and I will update you and community as I make progress on it 
16:40:16 <NotMtth[m]> > <@plowsof:matrix.org> ok nice, get those changes added onto the ccs proposal so people can see (then people can make a more informed decision)
16:40:16 <NotMtth[m]>  * As we discussed I will, it's not complete and I have to do more work on it and I will update you and community as I make progress
16:40:17 <plowsof> thank you for attending and sharing your progress 
16:40:30 <plowsof> appreciated 
16:40:36 <plowsof> onto leito   c. [xmr-btc-swap development and improvement](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/355)    
16:40:37 <NotMtth[m]> Thank you for the help plowsof
16:41:02 <selenze[m]> The theme "cypherpunk radio" is well and good but I guess it need to shaped and oriented to the monero aspirations. 
16:41:13 <leito[m]> Okey, big update is: I have decided that I will recluse myself from the rpc api development, this other guy is doing good work. Obviously I will CR and help him in any questions he has, I will be changing later today the PR to reflect that
16:41:46 <plowsof> leito you still have translations listed as a milestone / 26 xmr for docker container (ignoring advice given already) kayaba doesnt like it (see's comit as a money pit) - binarybaron left a comment too.
16:41:49 <leito[m]> also I will remove the transalation of docs
16:42:02 <plowsof> thanks
16:42:23 <plowsof> binarybaron can complete the gui without the api 
16:42:57 <leito[m]> plowsof:  looking back now, I do agree 26 xmr is to much money, what do you thing guys would be an acceptable amount or should we just bounty it? 
16:43:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ask after meeting 
16:43:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lets move on if were not ready
16:44:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Speed run moneroshoppin, ray, bp+  so we can finish with   Monerokon and solopt
16:44:10 <plowsof>   h. [Draft: MoneroKon 2023 CCS-1](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/362)  
16:44:11 <cryptogrampy[m]> I left my feedback on the Metronero CCS Siren Stnby .   Looking forward to using it ^_^
16:44:19 <Siren[m]> plowsof: I think writing docker files should be worth less
16:44:29 <Stnby[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: Saw it. 🫀
16:44:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@plowsof:matrix.org>   h. [Draft: MoneroKon 2023 CCS-1](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/362)  
16:44:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> > 
16:44:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> LAST
16:44:56 <cryptogrampy[m]> Stnby[m]: Will you guys have a docker image for easy deploy? 
16:45:02 <Siren[m]> > <@plowsof:matrix.org>   h. [Draft: MoneroKon 2023 CCS-1](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/362)  
16:45:02 <Siren[m]> > 
16:45:02 <Siren[m]> FUND FUND FUND
16:45:06 <Siren[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: Of course
16:45:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Speed run through the other stuf asap
16:45:13 <Stnby[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: Yeah
16:45:22 <Stnby[m]> Already have a Dockerfile
16:45:23 <spacekitty420[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ccs is to fund already properly thought out projects, ray not monero related, u meant bp++?
16:45:31 <ajs_[m]> Monerokon draft is done for the most part (estimates need to be slightly nudged and commits squashed) and just awaits final approval from the community
16:45:32 <plowsof> ajs_ has been planning this with the events team, made alot of changes already in response to feedbacks 
16:45:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yea bp++ audit ccs
16:46:07 <plowsof> no need to discuss bp++, waiting on the creator to submit new paper 
16:46:24 <monerobull[m]> did hinto fall asleep on his keyboard
16:46:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> That needs to be said ^^
16:47:03 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: Saturday night :))
16:47:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Raytina archive > close
16:47:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monroshopping > close 
16:47:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bp++ > hold 
16:47:22 <selenze[m]> plowsof: also please do some scheduling on the monero moon, Revuo monero and the Monero Observer (Blitz)
16:47:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Moneromoon?
16:47:41 <plowsof>   i. [escapethe3RA Monero Observer maintenance (Winter 2022)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/363)      
16:47:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hasnt had a release in 6 months 
16:48:06 <plowsof> +1 for observer , quality service 
16:48:14 <monerobull[m]> +1 for observer, he always writes about the stuff i do /s
16:48:17 <gnuteardrops[m]> +1 Observer
16:48:24 <Siren[m]> +1 Observer 
16:48:30 <hinto[m]> monerobull[m]: im holding back writing dumb stuff
16:48:31 <ajs_[m]> Any further questions, comments, concerns, suggestions for monerokon proposal?
16:48:42 <plowsof> only support ajs_ 
16:48:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> +1 though I have the same requests of observer as I had of moon
16:48:51 <selenze[m]> +1 for Observer except for footnote links and that of revisiting already said commitments
16:49:20 <plowsof> will leave an updoot on the monerokon 
16:49:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Nit from afungible 
16:49:28 <merope> +1 observer
16:49:34 <mj-xmr[m]> +1 
16:50:16 <plowsof>   f. [MoneroShopping](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/360)    
16:50:17 <plowsof> close 
16:50:25 <monerobull[m]> its fun though
16:50:27 <MoneroBro> Leave open!
16:50:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close 
16:50:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close x5, dont meme vote on your own proposal
16:50:53 <Siren[m]> Close
16:51:03 <selenze[m]> Revuo Monero is bullshit if it was funded
16:51:21 <merope> Close MoneroShopping - they need startup capital, not crowdfunding donations. Cool idea, wrong place
16:51:22 <MoneroBro> The intend of the Monero.Shopping proposal is to research and document a solution to increase the "spend-ability" of Monero.
16:51:22 <MoneroBro> The goal is to find a convenient way to pay for any product on the web with Monero.
16:51:23 <MoneroBro> We see this proposal as a "community-think-tank".
16:51:23 <MoneroBro> We don't plan to move to the funding stage until we have a solid blueprint to a clear goal and the green light from you guys!
16:51:24 <MoneroBro> Keeping this proposal open as a draft would act as a central disscussion and information gathering board.
16:51:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Revuo is not funded by ccs. Stay in topic please!
16:51:33 <selenze[m]> even the Monero standard, not expected such a summary for a periodical review
16:51:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close. Next
16:51:40 <monerobull[m]> i applaud them for the "buy for me" idea but as ive said, can be done in haveno for free and requires no trust
16:51:50 <plowsof>   g. [rayatina-archive](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/361) 
16:51:53 <plowsof> close 
16:51:56 <monerobull[m]> close
16:51:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close.
16:51:57 <Siren[m]> Close
16:52:15 <ajs_[m]> Close
16:52:40 <merope> Close
16:52:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Now Monerokon?
16:52:58 <plowsof> here are some monero news outlets (let me know any others if you want them to be listed selenze ) News: [Monero Observer](https://www.monero.observer/) - [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/) - [The Monero Standard](https://localmonero.co/the-monero-standard)
16:53:28 <plowsof> proposals where discussed ass-backwards here, we've covered them all
16:53:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> ajs_ @ajs_:matrix.org:  are you looking to move to funding at this meeting? Or taking the draft label off and go to funding after the next?
16:53:54 <selenze[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: can't comment yet
16:53:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are you preselling tickets?
16:54:01 <spacekitty420[m]> MoneroBro: like it been said, there's already services doing that (bitrefill concierge service, proxystore and such), the idea is good, monero funding just doesnt seem to be the place for it, a reddit post could be more fit to act as discussion thingy / daft and such
16:54:18 <spacekitty420[m]> s/daft/draft/
16:54:54 <plowsof> floor is open, ive seen no convincing argument not to pay mj for his hours 
16:54:58 <selenze[m]> spacekitty420: it has already been kindly forwarded to you please do your research
16:55:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Presales are the best guage of attendance. Even if they are just placeholder tickets at the higher rate.
16:55:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Your opinion 
16:55:20 <Siren[m]> plowsof: Endor agreed with it so
16:55:31 <plowsof> my opinion backed up with statements 
16:55:35 <monerobull[m]> just make some rules for next time
16:55:40 <selenze[m]> it has already been kindly forwarded to you please do your research
16:55:50 <mj-xmr[m]> plowsof: Well done in the end, I must admit.
16:55:50 <selenze[m]> that was for Monerobro
16:56:06 <plowsof> managerial role is been negated by endor not abandoning the project 
16:56:19 <mj-xmr[m]> monerobull[m]: Note for everybody: don't join milestones. Divide and Conquer.
16:56:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Selsta, myself, siren and others have backed up ours with statements as we''
16:56:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well*
16:57:01 <ajs_[m]> ofrnxmr:  after removing draft, it would be ready to be merged
16:57:20 <plowsof> those "punishments" for behaviour  should be taken outside of the ccs , or during the idea stage 
16:57:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Behavior
16:57:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> When did mj request this exceptio?
16:58:04 <monerobull[m]> in the future we will just have to look more closely at milestones so we don't get scammed :P
16:58:04 <ajs_[m]> ofrnxmr:  no tickets will be sold once the funding target has been met and location confirmed
16:58:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> He did a merge request. He didnt request it.
16:58:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull[m]: Guarantees were made exactly for this reason. 
16:59:38 <spacekitty420[m]> s/bitrefill/shopinbit/, s/daft/draft/
16:59:54 <selenze[m]> plowsof: some guidance might be needed for such issues on project mangement and ownership of deliverance. Should not be repeated I guess
17:00:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Facepalm
17:00:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should not occur, period 
17:00:32 <spacekitty420[m]> meeting over or what? everyone can fuck off yet?
17:00:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Repeated? It hasnt happened yet 
17:01:23 <Siren[m]> <plowsof> "managerial role is been negated..." <- I didn't like him taking on a managerial role and belittling his teammate everywhere (reddit, gitlab)
17:01:25 <merope> Have there been ccs projects with delays/completed past the proposed timeline in the past?
17:01:42 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: But why are we even discussing this if they both came to an agreement?
17:01:47 <mj-xmr[m]> Siren[m]: I APOLOGIZE. IT WONT HAPPEN AGAIN.
17:01:52 <merope> ofrnxmr[m]: How would you handle delays in work then?
17:01:53 <plowsof> me neither, im agreeing with it all (regarding the behaviour/actions) 
17:02:10 <plowsof> but ccs doesnt acknowledge it
17:02:15 <monerobull[m]> merope: pay when its done?
17:02:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> mj-xmr[m]: What part 
17:03:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dissing endor? Or ____<<<
17:03:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Threatening to sue ccs 
17:03:21 <plowsof> managerial role / finish it all himself isn't an argument anymore (there are no hours being paid for this)
17:03:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Demaning pay without a conversation
17:03:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> All of it? 
17:03:50 <merope> monerobull[m]: Right. mj's part of those milestones is done, only my independent part is left - and I'm dealing with some personal issues that are delaying my work, hence the delays
17:04:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Not if you pay him without doing the work.
17:04:09 <merope> Anything else is a separate issue
17:04:12 <plowsof> paying him for the work done though 
17:04:21 <mj-xmr[m]> I think endor00 should not be pressured in any way now. 
17:04:26 <plowsof> i agree^
17:04:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> mj-xmr:  thats all?
17:04:44 <monerobull[m]> yeah but you have to look at it from the perspective of the ccs, in the future we dont want to fund things that might not even be functional at all (thank god soloptxmr is)
17:05:16 <merope> monerobull[m]: The fact that it is functional is why we're asking this
17:05:22 <mj-xmr[m]> Ehm.. generally I agree, but this is a special situation.
17:05:36 <plowsof> milestone 1 payout proved it was functional already 
17:05:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> So, shall you officially request pay? 
17:05:50 <monerobull[m]> should we really pay for someone to develop a frontend that gets abandoned because his teampartner dropped off? of course not, they applied for a "contract" as a team and the team will deliver or not get paid
17:05:59 <merope> ofrnxmr[m]: The only work left is my part of those milestones (which will get paid when I complete them)
17:06:12 <monerobull[m]> * get paid (just an example)
17:06:31 <mj-xmr[m]> endor hasn't abandoned it, decided to do it in his own time, and IF THAT FAILS, I can always jump in. Deal?
17:06:31 <merope> monerobull[m]: I'm not dropping off. Just shifting my timeline
17:06:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> mj-xmr[m]: Can?
17:06:42 <monerobull[m]> talking about the future
17:06:48 <monerobull[m]> alright im gone, nice meeting
17:06:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Went from guarantee to "I can"
17:07:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> mj-xmr[m]: It did fail and you tried to bully your way into getting paid and running iff
17:07:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Only because it didnt work are you here making concessions 
17:09:16 <mj-xmr[m]> Yep. Thanks.
17:09:54 <plowsof> leito please share here when you have edited your proposal and we can look during the week .
17:10:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> So.. are you going to ask?
17:10:31 <plowsof> thank you for all attending , apologies on going over time 
17:10:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> MY apologies for going over time
17:11:31 <leito[m]> plowsof: Sure thing 😃
17:11:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I cant possible vote yes on a request that is never made to us.
17:13:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you need an exception, you _should_ have to request it. Not demand it and somehow stumble your way into getting it. 
17:13:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> I say _should_ because obviously people say "last time" every time around here. 
17:20:34 <plowsof> we can discuss applying the rules here (under project administration) for mj https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/docs/CONTRIBUTING.md 
17:20:58 <plowsof> ill make a meta issue for daddy Core 
17:21:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fuck the rules 
17:21:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont need a rule for "dont be a slimeball"
17:22:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Half serious.. obviously they might need updating but "rules" dont mean ANYTHING when you male exeptions because someone talks shit about you online 
17:22:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wen mj going to ask got an exception? 
17:24:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> For*
17:24:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or do we just make demands, make noise, and like magic, contracts rewrite themselves
17:27:21 <plowsof> i miss rayatina 
17:27:33 <plowsof> always off topic but never mean 
17:30:31 <selenze[m]> plowsof: today's list is too many!
17:30:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: Im never mean
17:31:43 <plowsof> selenze too many newsletters? they all present info in their own way , people might prefer one over the other
17:32:33 <selenze[m]> plowsof: I do believe in alternatives...but the others are shits..no work is done onto them...just a repeatition
17:33:40 <selenze[m]> plowsof: And can you forward escapethe3A to fix the footnote links (some of them do not work) and that to continue working on the monero announcement, the cypherpunk series
17:34:37 <plowsof> i would like to list all active monero news / newsletters , yes i will ask about the link issue (is it some personal thing of not directly linking to sites that are not meeting some personal criteria? i dont know)
17:38:37 <MoneroBro> plowsof  Thank you for inviting me today,  I will sit down with my team and we will discuss where we go from here. Keep up the good work!
17:41:51 <selenze[m]> plowsof: is there any monero wiki page
17:42:16 <plowsof> MoneroBro has produced a summary of the "current state" of the ecosystem .. a snapshot in time of this community .... bringing everyone together during the holiday period 
17:42:57 <plowsof> selenze monerodocs? getmonero docs? zero to monero? 
17:43:10 <MoneroBro> Happy Holidays, everyone! See you around!
17:44:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hope you polish that up and show us a better version 
17:44:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or you can go to #monero-community-dev:monero.social or this room for further input 
17:45:01 <spacekitty420[m]> santa isnt even real and is an acronym for satan which satanism is the worship of self then if santa doesnt deliver the presents but the self does, xmas is a satanic holiday 🙀
17:45:21 <selenze[m]> but they are lacking timeliness and contribution/participation...don't you see some lacuna there
17:45:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> selenze:  I dont understand 
17:45:52 <monerobull[m]> spacekitty420[m]: Oh no terrible. Now let me just buy my Christmas gifts with the digital drug money
17:46:08 <plowsof> there ... diego made a youtube video about the history of monero i believe ... maybe on an anniversary? i'd have to check
17:46:28 <plowsof> origins (bitcointalk forum) bitmonero etc 
17:46:31 <monerobull[m]> I have a document with a bunch of funny xmr Trivia
17:46:42 <monerobull[m]> Like, some really obscure stuff
17:47:19 <selenze[m]> ofrnxmr: see how beutiful and update is archwiki why can't the monero
17:48:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Arch vs monero... maybe the size of communities?
17:49:09 <plowsof> like this selenze? https://monerodocs.org/
17:49:46 <selenze[m]> yes...thats what makes me questioning alwasys....monero economics is huge but the comm is really, I even don't know how has this project got successful. 
17:49:46 <plowsof> there is an issue to move to this style^ but (boohoo it would take some work) but i can put in those hours 
17:50:35 <selenze[m]> me too, I would gladly participate if someone could do the hosting and make ready the infrustructure
17:51:49 <spacekitty420[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: /r/archlinux 224k, /r/monero 278k
17:51:53 <selenze[m]> I think having a wiki would make an all rounded documentation and updated to all the projects...may be wiki.getmonero.org
17:51:59 <monerobull[m]> selenze[m]: ?
17:52:12 <monerobull[m]> Monero has like one of the best communities in all of crypto 
17:54:01 <selenze[m]> monerobull[m]: yes..but the minds that participate and the decision that are made are incomparable...consider today's comm participants for example.
17:55:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe I mean, contributors. spacekitty420 @spacekitty420:catgirl.cloud: 
17:55:43 <monerobull[m]> All the other projects have dev teams funded by schemes that negatively impact the users who make decisions behind closed doors
17:56:01 <monerobull[m]> s/who/and/
17:56:03 <spacekitty420[m]> ofrnxmr: as far as i know monero was the #3 cryptocoin with the most contributors to the code, that's still pretty massive
17:57:58 <selenze[m]> monerobull: elaborate plz
18:01:03 <monerobull[m]> ZCash is a great example 
18:01:13 <monerobull[m]> The community literally can't use their mobile wallets 
18:01:23 <spacekitty420[m]> zcash doesnt have a community, only paid shills
18:01:24 <monerobull[m]> But the devs don't care at all, they get paid either way
18:01:56 <selenze[m]> plowsof: on the issue of creating matrix account, the link you provided has some incorrect points, I think it needs some updates...can you forward to the person who maintain it to make a correct inference on signing without requiring an email....because the way I have tried it, it doesn't work. And this doesn't go with monero's privacy principles. 
18:02:10 <monerobull[m]> Read any cryptos subreddit, what do you find? Monero has actual community things going on, everyone else?
18:02:28 <monerobull[m]> ZEC is a ghost town since they quarantined into their forum
18:03:01 <monerobull[m]> Bitcoin is people jerking off to everything saylor says and when the price goes up
18:03:07 <nioc> so it was decided to partially pay a milestone early on promises that it will be completed,  hmmm
18:03:35 <spacekitty420[m]> selenze: email requirement depends on homeserver, matrix.org homeserver requires it but some dont
18:03:40 <plowsof> selenze please review: https://deploy-preview-1962--barolo-time-757cf9.netlify.app/resources/user-guides/join-monero-matrix.html
18:04:23 <nioc> has the monerokon proposal been fully funded yet?
18:04:42 <plowsof> nioc if endor doesnt finish his hours - people can mine montero with the sun after "an initial setup effort" 
18:05:10 <selenze[m]> monerobull[m]: I still am not satisfied nor convinced we have enough participants...may be some work may need to PR on striving for more monero participants....like a good example is CCS proposals that may need technical reviews..
18:05:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> selenze: ccs proposals that need technical reviews, get them
18:06:01 <selenze[m]> plowsof: Its not working without an email, I did inform the guy on matrix but doesn't listen
18:06:33 <nioc> do we have a new demander? 
18:06:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Example being the bp++ audit proposal.
18:07:09 <selenze[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: how many of you can we find participating here
18:07:10 <plowsof> thats the new guide awaiting approval / deployment on getmonero selenze
18:07:13 <spacekitty420[m]> selenze[m]: not about quantity of participants but quality and plowsof is 💯 o.o
18:07:55 <nioc> spacekitty420[m]: no, we need a twitter poll  :D
18:08:59 <spacekitty420[m]> for the official monero twatter account? i mean... sounds like an idea that could be fu 🍿
18:09:04 <spacekitty420[m]> from*
18:09:21 <spacekitty420[m]> s/for/from/, s/fu/fun/
18:09:24 <plowsof> "we're all in this together" to quote the high-school-musical song 
18:09:34 <nioc> we are one
18:09:53 <spacekitty420[m]> nah, fuck that singularity transhumanism bs
18:09:54 <monerobull[m]> I say  kitty and i get sole custom over the account and only post while drunk
18:09:56 <nioc> "official"
18:10:04 <monerobull[m]> s/custom/custody/
18:10:44 <monerobull[m]> Zooko too enjoys posting while drunk, maybe we can invite him for guest tweets
18:10:57 <nioc> spacekitty420[m]: you already have more non human cells in your body than human ones 
18:11:13 <spacekitty420[m]> mlem
18:11:52 <nioc> CCS to buy me barolo so that I can drunk tweet 
18:12:28 <monerobull[m]> Ccs for monero remote Christmas Party
18:12:44 <nioc> monerobull[m]: wen party?
18:13:05 <monerobull[m]> I already do gamenights every week
18:13:31 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: Host a jitsi instance
18:13:37 <monerobull[m]> But it's a closed group and we only ever played like 2 games of catan, the rest of the time we watch anime
18:13:45 <nioc> lol
18:13:52 <monerobull[m]> Siren[m]: No we steal that from an organization funded by a bank
18:14:10 <monerobull[m]> Their bandwidth is jummy
18:14:27 <selenze[m]> <plowsof> "thats the new guide awaiting..." <- where is this new guide, I just tried the link you provided above and it still is requiring an email
18:14:51 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: We can use public main one meet.jit.si afaik
18:14:52 <plowsof> wait what, the guide mentions an email
18:15:17 <monerobull[m]> Siren[m]: Nah that one's shit
18:15:24 <monerobull[m]> Jitsi.debian.social is where we usually leech
18:16:06 <plowsof> i will review it today selenze and ask for changes (if.. you're saying it doesnt mention needing to register an email?)
18:16:13 <monerobull[m]> Siren[m]: Wait that's not the official one is it?
18:17:36 <selenze[m]> plowsof: the writing says "The email field is used solely for recovering your account if you lose your password.", I do think this doesn't imply it requiers! And it shouldn't be requiring ...thats my stand
18:17:36 <spacekitty420[m]> plowsof: like said earlier, some homeservers dont need an email tho
18:18:18 <plowsof> ok ok the issue of not requiring an email is that 24/25 words will save some seconds from his day
18:18:21 <selenze[m]> spacekitty420[m]: but this one is on matrix.monero.social
18:19:11 <spacekitty420[m]> selenze[m]: it's the user's choice, u can then still join the channels even if registered on different homeserver
18:19:27 <selenze[m]> we have monero wallet which doesn't require email but mnemonics, why can't the others follow this principle.
18:20:21 <spacekitty420[m]> like sayin, it's not an issue, just create account on diff homeserver that dont require email and join that same channel from it
18:20:50 <nioc> apples and hammers
18:21:01 <plowsof> this is an age old issue of "but monero is anon why do i need an email to register"
18:21:15 <selenze[m]> spacekitty420[m]: you are not getting my point. matrix.monero.social should not require an email by design infact all monero affilated projects.
18:21:15 <spacekitty420[m]> thats not even an issue tho! LOL
18:21:30 <plowsof> they should require an email
18:21:35 <plowsof> because at one point it didnt and what happened
18:21:47 <DiegoSalazar[m]> mm? someone pinged me?
18:21:59 <nioc> .shrug
18:22:19 <plowsof> oh i wanted to share the video you made on youtube about moneros history... maybe on an anniversary ? i will check 
18:22:23 <selenze[m]> we should provide alternative signup mechanisms instead of emails
18:22:37 <spacekitty420[m]> <plowsof> "there ... diego made a youtube..." <- youtube video somethin somethin
18:22:48 <plowsof> a timeline of monero yeah, interesting
18:23:21 <DiegoSalazar[m]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPFr5iqlGBw
18:23:27 <plowsof> thats the one, thank you!
18:23:34 <DiegoSalazar[m]> goddamn I look good on camera
18:24:13 <selenze[m]> DiegoSalazar[m]: https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=lPFr5iqlGBw
18:25:22 <selenze[m]> I might cite this in the future wiki then
18:26:12 <spacekitty420[m]> wen wiki?
18:26:32 <plowsof> its all fun and games until you have to translate it
18:26:46 <DiegoSalazar[m]> translate only to Esperanto
18:26:52 <DiegoSalazar[m]> then if anyone wants to read it, they'll have to learn
18:26:55 <plowsof> good idea lol
18:27:56 <selenze[m]> spacekitty420[m]: soon if the infrustructure is ready
18:33:23 <selenze[m]> ofrnxmr: anything to say ?
18:33:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> I always have something to say :P
18:33:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Regarding wiki's?
18:34:20 <selenze[m]> yep...especially on the infrastructure readiness
18:34:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or regarding homeservers?
18:35:09 <selenze[m]> wiki
18:37:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> You mean infrastructure to host it on wiki.getmonero.org?
18:38:47 <selenze[m]> yes and making ready all the configuration
18:39:16 <spacekitty420[m]> wen purchase of monero [dot] org? as proposed by vik instead of the .com
18:39:59 <monerobull[m]> Never it's retarded 
18:40:10 <monerobull[m]> Oh .org
18:40:13 <spacekitty420[m]> . org been a scam tho.... its not retarded
18:40:13 <monerobull[m]> How much is that
18:40:17 <spacekitty420[m]> right
18:40:22 <spacekitty420[m]> idk but probably way cheaper
18:40:54 <nioc> that is the one owned by the squatter? 
18:41:45 <spacekitty420[m]> who u calling the squatter? cake? cake has the .com so is in good hands but last news i heard is that binaryfate still want to purchase it  for some whatever reason? while .org would be just a way better move...
18:42:06 <nioc> no the .org has been squatted for many years
18:42:23 <nioc> years ago it was $400k
18:42:42 <spacekitty420[m]> the .com was $400k and is the price at which cake bought it
18:42:49 <spacekitty420[m]> so u saying .org same price?
18:43:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Magic number 
18:43:25 <nioc> yes the price for .org was in moneros and when the monero price was lower it came to !400k
18:43:42 <nioc> ~400K
18:44:06 <spacekitty420[m]> damn... so then wtf binaryfate still want the .com instead? that would be retarded if the case....
18:44:20 <nioc> that's how they ended up with getmonero instead 
18:44:36 <nioc> been going on for only 8 years  lol
18:45:11 <monerobull[m]> No point to buy such a domain
18:45:16 <spacekitty420[m]> so what's the deal with it right now? available at same price? or squatter just wont sell ever?
18:45:22 <monerobull[m]> Although, can't we DMCA the .org?
18:46:07 <spacekitty420[m]> :derp: 
18:47:06 <nioc> squatter was selling for like 20k moooneros
18:47:23 <nioc> just a guess
18:47:47 <nioc> monero price went up and the monero price stayed the same
18:47:58 <nioc> haven't heard anything in a long time
18:48:06 <spacekitty420[m]> and donation was 2k monero
18:48:42 <spacekitty420[m]> well that sucks...
18:48:43 <nioc> .com |= .org
18:49:50 <spacekitty420[m]> right but like saying apparently allegedly general fund still considering purchasing the .com from cake (which i would agree is just dumb at this point, specially when the .org would be a way better purchase if any....)
18:49:56 <nioc> we should by every possible domain that includes the word monero 
18:50:00 <nioc> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
18:50:26 <nioc> by = buy  obv
18:50:28 <spacekitty420[m]> https://monero-is-tax-evasion.org
18:50:59 <spacekitty420[m]> https://irs-wants-some-of-that-monero.gov
18:51:06 <nioc> moneroislifeitself.everydomain
18:51:40 <nioc> this concludes my shitposting for today
18:51:53 <spacekitty420[m]> cheers
18:53:39 <selenze[m]> plowsof: could you take this discussion point for next time then.
18:55:22 <selenze[m]> thnx for your time all of you. all z best
19:33:56 <monerobull[m]> Tax-fraud.com
19:34:22 <monerobull[m]> What was the domain
19:34:25 <monerobull[m]> Someone recently bought two and pointed them at getmonero
19:35:30 * spacekitty420[m] uploaded an image: (159KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/NyyxiPGNbKyLXzngyOIOLqrR/image.png >
19:35:38 <monerobull[m]> Ah yes
19:35:46 <spacekitty420[m]> :3