09:22:17 <Mumuks> https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/zra6vo/what_do_you_think_about_monero/
10:43:17 <still_stuck[m]> no fear, no problems
10:43:31 <still_stuck[m]> be creative with packaging
11:59:19 <martin03[m]> what will happened if i deposited 10k+ to a bank from unknown sources? 
12:25:17 <Siren[m]> If you have withdrawn a similar amount before, they won't be suspicious
12:25:36 <Siren[m]> Otherwise green men will call you ask ask where it came from
12:47:46 <Siren[m]> s/ask/and/
13:15:11 -xmr-pr- [css-proposals] z00t opened pull request #368: Draft: Uni club intro z00t
13:15:11 -xmr-pr- > https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/368
13:20:39 <Siren[m]> No commits?
13:20:40 * Siren[m] uploaded an image: (4KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/aYBrjghkStGCqSnDMfHLAkKS/64sz4u.jpg >
13:30:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who needs commits 
13:30:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> When you can just waste time and resources 
13:33:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> That "draft" label 😆😆. People trying to abuse an exception to the 4week til decision 😆
13:57:52 <z00ts00t[m]> Hi all. Thanks for adding me!!
14:00:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> What am I looking at
14:00:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> What is "uni club intro" z00ts00t: 
15:10:41 <alpharabius[m]> Get ready for a new node
15:10:43 <alpharabius[m]> Or website
15:10:44 <alpharabius[m]> Or miner
15:10:44 <alpharabius[m]> Or smth
15:11:06 * alpharabius[m] uploaded an image: (132KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/qkuOUCfUwgUQDBTKReUsPprj/20221222_100922.jpg >
15:11:19 * alpharabius[m] uploaded an image: (88KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/FShkcSFeyGfnjiSDtcltBcvF/20221222_095958.jpg >
15:13:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> alpharabius:  off damn topic man
15:13:38 <alpharabius[m]> It's been an hour since anyone spokeofrnxmr 
15:13:42 <alpharabius[m]> And it somewhat is
15:13:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is community 
15:14:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not "idle chat"
15:15:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not a bad thing when people post stuff like that occasionally, but you do it habitually 
15:16:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> And always beg when you do it. 
15:16:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Didnt even attend your own ccs meeting 
15:19:01 <alpharabius[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> And always beg when you do it. 
15:19:01 <alpharabius[m]> > Didnt even attend your own ccs meeting 
15:19:01 <alpharabius[m]> Cuz you guys banned me
15:19:02 <alpharabius[m]> Remember
15:19:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> You were unbanned and invited back before the meeting
15:19:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> I sent the invite personally.
15:19:47 <alpharabius[m]> Oh
15:20:12 <alpharabius[m]> I caught covid that time, i didn't see it until last week
15:20:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you didnt get banned, got got a 12hr vacation for going off topic repeatedly 
15:20:34 <alpharabius[m]> alpharabius[m]: *my teacher caught covid and i got tested
15:29:47 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "What is "uni club intro" z00ts00..." <- University Blockchain Club Introduction to and Exploration of Monero & its benefits
15:31:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Explain 
15:31:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who, what, where, when, why, how
15:31:50 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr: why the thumbs down before finding out about it??
15:32:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because there's no commit
15:32:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Placeholders take up space in my schedule
15:32:59 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I'm not super comfortable with git, which is why I reached out to the Twitter account to ask if I missed doing anything 
15:33:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> If youre ready to open a merge request, id assume you'd be ready to explain what this is
15:33:32 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I didn't realize you were so important that you couldn't help guide a newbie who needed a little help....
15:33:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> You should do the merge request after writing a proposal, or at least s description 
15:34:06 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I'm fine with explaining the proposal. I'm talking about the missed commit
15:34:37 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: So I did the merge request too soon (before writing the draft proposal)?
15:35:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right. Mistakes happen, no problem.
15:35:54 <Rucknium[m]> z00ts00t: Is this the proposal? https://repo.getmonero.org/z00t/ccs-proposals/-/commit/1ec220e4f91218d260bea4b6c3e1835236c0178b
15:36:02 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Okay. I appreciate that. What can I do to remedy this?
15:36:08 <Rucknium[m]> Appears that it was not attached to the merge request
15:36:18 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: It's a draft of my proposal.
15:36:36 <Rucknium[m]> z00ts00t: plowsof can help you troubleshoot
15:37:52 <Rucknium[m]> z00ts00t: This type of proposal would be better for https://magicgrants.org/
15:38:08 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: Thanks vm. Like I said, I'm not super proficient with Git and thought I had done everything correctly to this point but I guess I screwed up. I apologize and appreciate the both of yall helping me recognize the issue. Now plowsof: what can I do to remedy having added no commit?
15:39:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Don't mind me. I'm the resident hard ass.
15:39:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> When plowsof is available he'll contact you and get it fixed up 
15:39:37 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: Nice. I appreciate that!! I was just convinced "Monero Outreach" was centered around outreach I guess... lol
15:40:03 <Rucknium[m]> Early feedback: Is it possible to get club funding through the university? Second, you can get testnet/stagenet coins for free if you want to experiment with sending and receiving XMR
15:40:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right. For study or testing purposes, there is no reason to use mainnet
15:40:51 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Don't mind me. I'm the resident hard ass.
15:40:51 <z00ts00t[m]> > When plowsof is available he'll contact you and get it fixed up 
15:40:51 <z00ts00t[m]> Thanks bud. Maybe I took you in the wrong way. I apologize if so. I do appreciate you making me aware of the existence of an issue. 
15:44:05 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: I guess I wasn't clear, I am not looking to do test txs or the like. I'm looking to plan out a deep dive into XMR and use XMR for future club transactions (or maybe even campus txs as a whole). The main funding would be to cover my time for a couple hours per week and primarily to serve as an incentive for current members to research more into XMR/new members to start exploring XMR. 
15:44:48 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr: ^
15:45:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> XMR onboarding doesnt have a 1 year learning curve
15:46:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe bitcoin lightning does though. XMR is complex in code, simple in ux and execution
15:47:03 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: No you're right. Maybe I overplanned in that regard, but as mentioned in the proposal, it is my goal to have our club travel to/meet with all the sister state unis of ours to evangelize lol
15:48:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Actual onboarding is more of a matter of convincing them. Personally, if I had a proposal for monero at a university, id have spoken with the staff about how I plan to research adopting xmr as the university currency, and need them tl sign off that they will consider it if I can complete the research etc
15:49:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id also ask them if they'd ve willing to contribute funds or hardware to deploy nodes or to convery fiat to xmr on campus 
15:50:12 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I would love to do that but our Uni was very clear and pronounced about how we were in no way, shape, or form allowed to involve faculty members in any activity that had any financial aspect to it. 
15:50:36 <z00ts00t[m]> It was part of the agreement when I started the clib
15:50:40 <z00ts00t[m]> Club*
15:50:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> So, if adopting at university is a no go - why bring it up
15:51:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Clubs are nice but if youre not already learning xmr, do you even blockchain?
15:51:49 <z00ts00t[m]> Because my ultimate goal isn't university adoption, it's being the catalyst for interested students to become developers and help to progress and grow the economy/environment 
15:52:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, but you focused on l2 and other stuff, did they pay you?
15:53:11 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Tbh I was sadly convinced until recently that only ppl who engage in illegal txs used XMR. I've since learned better and want to makeup for time lost haha
15:53:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or did the university fund that? How did/was this club function/funded up til now 
15:54:25 <Siren[m]> What university btw?
15:54:28 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: We got small bounties occasionally but thats it. And prior to now I haven't even thought about applying for financial support from the crypto space
15:54:56 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: All I want to say at this point is a state university in NC
15:55:38 <Siren[m]> How can we verify your milestones?
15:57:36 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: There was no major funding needed. For these first 2 years in existence we merely have been a group of ppl interested in blockchain tech who meet up to discuss what we are interested in or working on at the moment, and to mess around with stuff on our own person computers. We do collect dues but those go mainly towards snacks at our meetings and we simply reserve whatever classroom we can reserve for our meetings. 
15:57:38 <Rucknium[m]> If you could actually get students prepared to contribute to the Monero ecosystem, that would be something that MAGIC would be interested in. These preparation steps in your CCS proposal aren't necessary.
15:58:36 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: Awesome to know. I rly appreciate that. Like I said, it was a draft and this is why... this input is gonna help me make a quality proposal. I appreciate it. 
15:59:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> z00ts00t:  we do this for free
15:59:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> A group that meet up and discuss and even write code
15:59:53 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: This is something I struggled figuring out. I'm not honestly sure. Any suggestions, beyond a live proof-of-ability being done every so often for devs lol
15:59:54 <Siren[m]> Plus all the educational resources about Monero are freely available
16:00:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> If these people are interested in xmr, they should be here without being bribed 
16:01:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> And if youre recruiting monero devs, thats a completely different story.
16:01:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Those devs can come here and dev and get paid much more than 20xmr
16:02:09 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: Yes thats understood. I'm not seeking funding to buy the books to learn. I am seeking funding to take our ragtag group and turn it into a formal club of devs, a notable percentage of whom would participate in XMR development after graduation optimally. 
16:02:31 <Siren[m]> The books are free
16:02:55 <Siren[m]> Do you guys already develop for other crypto?
16:03:21 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> And if youre recruiting monero devs, thats a completely different story.
16:03:21 <z00ts00t[m]> > Those devs can come here and dev and get paid much more than 20xmr
16:03:21 <z00ts00t[m]>  I am seeking funding to take our ragtag group and turn it into a formal club of devs, a notable percentage of whom would participate in XMR development after graduation optimally. 
16:03:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> We have a ragtag group already 
16:04:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> And we do this 24/7.. not once a week
16:04:31 <Siren[m]> z00ts00t[m]: After they learn about monero and start developing for it, we can fund them
16:04:35 <Rucknium[m]> z00ts00t: Go to #monero-community-dev:monero.social 
16:04:37 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: Some of us do. I've always been more community oriented but am now trying to learn dev. 3 of the guys have contributed to ETH and one of the girls was in this last major ETH hackathon. But other than that the bulk of us are honing our skills. 
16:05:22 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: And I'd love to become a part of that. I am also in school tho. And I'm not very proficient. So that's why I'm working on getting there 
16:05:56 <Rucknium[m]> A good project would be to help with maintenance of an existing open source Monero project. If you can prove that, then that's a step in the right direction for funding
16:05:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're here now 👍
16:05:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bring your dev friends 
16:08:29 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: So essentially they have to invest their time into learning dev for XMR when not in class or studying, so that they can hopefully have the chance of being able to be paid for their labor? Tbh I'm trying to bring others alongside myself while I hone my skills and hopefully become proficient enough to be a part of the dev team. However, all of us are traveling this road on our own accord and dime and I thought maybe we
16:08:29 <z00ts00t[m]> were a worthy investment since our goals would benefit yall once we get there. But the way this is going I was wrong. So I apologize. I appreciate the input. Guess il see yall around. Hopefully. 
16:09:09 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: Where would I find that?
16:09:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont have to learn to dev for xmr.
16:09:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just being a part of OUR community goes a long way
16:10:56 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> You're here now 👍
16:10:56 <z00ts00t[m]> > Bring your dev friends 
16:10:56 <z00ts00t[m]> Yeah you're not wrong. I just feel like I'm working so hard and putting in all this effort and not benefitting from it. Some funding would've let off some steam so I could take an extra day or two off work to instead focus on learning more but I don't think that is seen as a feasible idea. 
16:11:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Again, funding is much higher if a dev comes by, finds a bug and fixes it
16:11:39 <Rucknium[m]> z00ts00t[m]: Good question. https://github.com/monero-ecosystem    https://monerodevs.org/    https://monero.observer/ultimate-guide-new-monero-contributors/
16:11:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or comes by and have a 💡 go off in their head with some idea we didnt think of
16:12:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerodevs.org as well
16:12:23 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> You dont have to learn to dev for xmr.
16:12:23 <z00ts00t[m]> > Just being a part of OUR community goes a long way
16:12:24 <z00ts00t[m]> I mean I want to. I'm awestruck by the thoroughness of the privacy and security it offers and have recently started to see privacy as a penultimate thing like I never used to. I want to participate in growing and furthering that. 
16:12:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> And #monero-community-dev:monero.social has ongoing new stuff
16:13:25 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I get that. My intent was to never get rich. I was just looking to be able to release some pressure while also having our club progress into a more official thing. 
16:13:34 <Rucknium[m]> "I just feel like I'm working so hard and putting in all this effort and not benefitting from it." This is every student's job description. The payoff always comes later.
16:14:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> One issue is that "monero" is not rich. We dont have a bunch of VC investors willing to pay for us to succeed.
16:14:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Magicgrants helps with this
16:14:27 <Siren[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> One issue is that "monero" is not rich. We dont have a bunch of VC investors willing to pay for us to succeed.
16:14:27 <Siren[m]> > 
16:14:27 <Siren[m]> > Magicgrants helps with this
16:14:27 <Siren[m]> Monero is community funded
16:15:27 <Siren[m]> Magicgrants offers scholarships for students
16:15:34 <Siren[m]> That's what you should aim for
16:15:38 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: Totally understood. That's part of why I felt so optimistic about receiving funding from Monero, because it would be funding the community in return. 
16:15:57 <Siren[m]> And then CCS after you know more and you are ready to contribute
16:16:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> ^ get uni to accept xmr 
16:16:14 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: Thats what I'll do. I appreciate it. If one of yall can just delete my git or whatever I'd appreciate it. 
16:16:38 <Siren[m]> Just close the proposal 
16:17:02 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: Didn't know that was possible. Thanks. 
16:17:03 <Siren[m]> Is your study subject IT related? Kind of odd you're not familiar with git.
16:18:51 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: It's not. I've never been involved in dev stuff until about 2 years ago, and never actually physically tried any coding myself until about 1 year ago. But only recently got involved on a more regular basis myself. Like I said before, I've always been involved in the community/marketing side of stuff. Techie stuff doesn't come naturally to me. I'm working VERY hard just to learn the basics
16:19:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Marketing but no adoption push, just some random meetups
16:19:45 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: My major is Sociology w a minor in criminal justice and I'm now a senior so it's too late to change but I don't want to do that stuff anymore. 
16:20:17 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I already explained that the uni has made us promise not to try for such things. 
16:21:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Tl: I got into crypto 2 years ago for NGU. Then I wanted to learn why NGD. Then I found monero and learned about the ethos of cryoto. Now I want NGU from ethos
16:21:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> * Tl: I got into crypto 2 years ago for NGU. 1yr ago I wanted to learn why NGD. This yr I found monero and learned about the ethos of cryoto. Now I want NGU from ethos
16:21:39 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I'm not sure why it's bash the newbie time but yall have made yourselves clear. Just FYI, it's gonna hurt the projects growth if yall are this gruff to everyone who comes in with questions and a lack of understanding. But I guess do you. 
16:21:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hug
16:22:11 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: NGU??
16:22:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Number go up
16:22:47 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Don't want a hug. Just don't wanna feel shit on for being new and unexperienced 
16:23:25 <Siren[m]> We're not trying to shit on you or anything
16:23:37 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Nope. Never invested beyond holding a couple ETH. Thanks for trying to wittle my entire genuine existence into a meme trope 
16:23:38 <Rucknium[m]> z00ts00t: Many people with your profile have gotten a CCS proposal pushed through and then the outcome was unsatisfactory. The reaction you're getting is from experience.
16:23:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're not being shit on for being new or inexperienced.
16:24:15 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: That's been your seemingly only goal this whole time 
16:24:49 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: So I'm being judged and treated a certain way based on past missteps?? Makes no sense but mkay.
16:24:49 <Rucknium[m]> You cannot ask for money immediately like this without any presence or contribution.
16:25:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> No. Its that we used to fund random junk
16:25:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Now we check to make sure shit will work
16:25:48 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: I was asking for funding throughout a working relationship. I wasn't expecting yall to deposit a couple thousand in my wallet tomorrow and we just go our own ways. 
16:26:01 <Rucknium[m]> Monero is untraceable. The CCS does not require identity verification. That makes accountability very difficult. Don't get upset. Get wise.
16:26:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry if you thought this was low hanging fruit
16:26:34 <Siren[m]> z00ts00t[m]: See it's another problem if we cannot verify your milestones
16:27:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its fine to be new, but youre like "wah wah, my proposal should be accepted wah wah".
16:27:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're new right? Stick around and learn what monero needs 
16:28:34 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I get that. And my proposal didn't hold water apparently. And that's fine. But you've gone out of your way to make more than one smart-ass judgment or demeaning joke towards me and that hasn't been helpful. 
16:28:34 <z00ts00t[m]> I do appreciate all of you helping me talk through it. I don't appreciate being treated like you know even the first thing about me 
16:28:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thicker skin
16:28:56 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: Not about that. It's about the attitude and disrespect I've been shown simultaneously to the helpful convo. That's the only part I'm upset about. Besides that, I totally understand. I'm not upset about not having my proposal stand up to testing. 
16:29:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is business, never personal 
16:30:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont act like I know anything about you, at all. Simple real the blank page > read the full proposal > didnt like > asked questions > made comments 
16:30:12 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Its fine to be new, but youre like "wah wah, my proposal should be accepted wah wah".
16:30:12 <z00ts00t[m]> > 
16:30:12 <z00ts00t[m]> > You're new right? Stick around and learn what monero needs 
16:30:12 <z00ts00t[m]> Never once was upset about not being funded. I am actually appreciative to learn more about what would be appropriate and what is needed. I've never for a second been upset about my proposal falling short. 
16:30:36 <Siren[m]> What exactly made you upset?
16:30:39 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: And I asked for any suggestions you had on that. I couldn't think of the best way to do so. 
16:31:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> The proposal isnt even up yet.
16:31:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> The way it works is you make a proposal > people comments with their likes or dislikes. I wont hold back > then we have a meeting > withing 4 weeks the proposal is to be sent for funding or closed 
16:31:43 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Its fine to be new, but youre like "wah wah, my proposal should be accepted wah wah".
16:31:43 <z00ts00t[m]> > 
16:31:43 <z00ts00t[m]> > You're new right? Stick around and learn what monero needs 
16:31:43 <z00ts00t[m]> Nobody wants to stick around when someone misjudges them, makes more than one attempt to ridicule them in front of others, and is an all around smart-ass to them. If I stick around it'll be despite the way you've acted towards me. 
16:31:59 <Rucknium[m]> Open source development communities are very "direct". You will continue to see that if you continue to be interested in cryptocurrency. When I first started working on Monero, I collided with many "direct" people. The correct response was for me to persevere.
16:32:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> I get that you might not know that ^ but sorry if you didnt know its my duty to comment. One way or another.
16:32:52 <plowsof11> i suggest you remove being "vaguely familiar with zcash" from the proposal, and don't refer to xmr as a token 
16:33:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> I suggest you close it
16:33:54 <plowsof11> the 5 xmr you request for transacting 
16:34:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stagenet ^
16:34:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> He knows, but acting like were picking in hin
16:34:22 <Siren[m]> z00ts00t[m]: I can't think of a way other than having you reveal yourself and the club members.
16:34:22 <plowsof11> yes lol https://community.rino.io/faucet/stagenet/
16:35:08 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "I dont act like I know anything..." <-  Tl: I got into crypto 2 years ago for NGU. 1yr ago I wanted to learn why NGD. This yr I found monero and learned about the ethos of cryoto. Now I want NGU from ethos
16:35:08 <z00ts00t[m]>  
16:35:08 <z00ts00t[m]> You can't pretend that the attempts at ridiculing me like this one were just you commenting on my proposal dude. You needa step off man. It's not about having thick skin. I didn't run off crying did I? I'm just being very clear that I've felt VERY disrespected by you on a personal level, and doing that to people is going to ensure the community never grows to its potential. 
16:35:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyway. Zoot, as I said. I welcome you and the dev friends to stick around for a few weeks before asking tl get paid
16:36:14 <plowsof11> also remove any demeaning language about the value of 5 xmr "Setting aside a mere 5 tokens" kind of insulting
16:36:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Learn that xmr isnt a token
16:36:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> That there is a stagenet 
16:36:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> That magic exists 
16:36:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> You did all of that today, and accuse me of being a jackass
16:36:57 <z00ts00t[m]> <Siren[m]> "What exactly made you upset?" <- ofrnxmr making multiple attempts at ridiculing me, pointing out my lack of knowledge being that im a newbie instead of being kind and helpful, etc. Other than that, I've taken all PRODUCTIVE criticism entirely well. 
16:36:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Oh well. Now you have tools to rewrite your proposal or to go to magic
16:37:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not ridicule, just observations . I dont do the marketing spin
16:37:51 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> The proposal isnt even up yet.
16:37:51 <z00ts00t[m]> > 
16:37:51 <z00ts00t[m]> > The way it works is you make a proposal > people comments with their likes or dislikes. I wont hold back > then we have a meeting > withing 4 weeks the proposal is to be sent for funding or closed 
16:37:51 <z00ts00t[m]> Great. See that is the type of stuff nobody knows unless they're told. So thank you for telling me. I recognize my proposal falls short and il be deleting it. 
16:37:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thanks
16:38:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> People shouldn't be opening ccs if they arent a part of the community 
16:38:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> CCS = community crowdfunding 
16:38:44 <plowsof11> i want to introduce people to the Euro. I would like a mere 800 euros to let my group transact. we plan to have 300 euros left after one year of experimenting 
16:38:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyone who is around for more than a few days KNOWS these things 
16:38:58 <z00ts00t[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "Open source development communit..." <- Being direct about my proposal and taking multiple shots at trying to ridicule me as a person are two very different things. As I've said, I've taken all constructive criticism here with absolute respect. 
16:39:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Knows*
16:39:41 <Siren[m]> :D it's ok to be a newbie or new to crypto
16:39:50 <Siren[m]> ofrn was just joking
16:39:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> You were asked about your experience and between what is written in the proposal and what you've said here, youre new to monero and dont know anything about tech, but have been having cryoto meetups with people who do
16:40:49 <z00ts00t[m]> <plowsof11> "the 5 xmr you request for..." <- As aforementioned, maybe I wasn't clear... that's not what was meant there. But it doesn't matter. It's being deleted because it wouldn't succeed even after formalizing it. And I'm glad to have learned that. I appreciate the constructive input. I'm trying to learn and grow and explore. I appreciate anyone who helps me on that journey.
16:41:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive just said the same thing in 5 different ways.
16:41:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stick around
16:41:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bring your friends
16:41:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> We do what you are proposing, every, single, day
16:42:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you arent going to teach them more than they can by taking part 
16:42:02 <Siren[m]> Feel free to ask any anything
16:42:03 <Siren[m]> s/any//
16:42:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Except how to beg (untelated shots at rayatina) 
16:43:04 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "He knows, but acting like were..." <- What?? Nobody is acting like anyone but you is "picking on them". You've taken the effort to make at least 3 shots at me on a personal level in an attempt to ridicule and demean me in front of everyone else here and I haven't appreciated it. That's all there is to it. Either acknowledge you've been an asshole towards me and we move on, or just continue on your current path and
16:43:04 <z00ts00t[m]> keep pushing me away from wanting to participate in any such community. Idc either way tbh. 
16:43:36 <z00ts00t[m]> <plowsof11> "yes lol https://community.rino...." <- I've clearly explained at least 3x I never intended to request money just to transact. 
16:44:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Do you want an apology?
16:45:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> I'm sorry im not ofrnyouxmr
16:45:14 <plowsof11> https://repo.getmonero.org/z00t/ccs-proposals/-/commit/1ec220e4f91218d260bea4b6c3e1835236c0178b#3ab54ae7aac2f526372d1a369710bb8dcb600081_0_39
16:45:44 <plowsof11> im reading your proposal z00ts00t as are others 
16:46:13 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Anyway. Zoot, as I said. I..." <- I'd be glad to do that but would not feel comfortable asking for help because I'd feel it's too likely that you'd take that opportunity to point out my naiveté or lack of understanding. So maybe I will maybe I won't. Couldn't possibly matter to you either way. Thanks for the few times when you gave actual advice or input about my proposal. 
16:46:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> At this point im just trolling the whining.  Ill stop since this isnt the place
16:46:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Everyone knows I help 100%
16:47:06 <z00ts00t[m]> <plowsof11> "also remove any demeaning..." <- I'm just gonna delete the proposal. Such a pursuit isn't worthy of funding. I've been shown that now. 
16:47:57 <plowsof11> im going to resubmit it after acting on the feedback here 
16:48:02 <plowsof11> and start my own club
16:48:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ill call it "monero.social"
16:48:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lighten up z00t
16:48:55 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Anyone who is around for more..." <- Well then I guess I'm just extra stupid because I didn't know those things. I apologize. GD you're a hateful little being.
16:48:55 <plowsof11> ^ feedback is valuable , people beg for such reactions (even if negative) - it allows them to see a clear route of success
16:48:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wont survive long on the internet with skin like paper 
16:49:41 <monerobull[m]1> Wait z00ts00t: what did you want to do lol
16:49:49 <Siren[m]> plowsof11: Yes me and my crack dealer
16:50:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!WzzKmkfUkXPHFERgvm:matrix.org/$3GFwGKaQsoD33rP0i6GvOu6G-tMEIWtYuW8oQzB_9xQ?via=monero.social&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat
16:50:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> @monerobull
16:51:02 <monerobull[m]1> Lol nice 
16:51:21 <monerobull[m]1> Sounds like someone asking to get funds for getting high with his college friends 😂
16:51:41 <plowsof11> you don't understand, zoot has clearly stated 3* the funds are not to be used for transacting
16:52:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> See z00t, its not just me.
16:52:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dont worry, your professor at school talks shit like this too. Just not in front of you
16:52:03 <Rucknium[m]> Ok, we can be a little nicer to zoot
16:52:43 <monerobull[m]1> I like that they at least tried <3
16:52:47 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]1: I mean even if he wants to throw an event and he is asking funds for it, we could potentially fund that
16:52:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium:  were just teasing 😋
16:52:59 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "You were asked about your..." <- No; I've been in the space for a couple years but I didn't spend every waking moment in it... like I said I'm a student, I also have a sick elderly parent, I also have a practically FT job. So I've not been able to focus as much as I would've liked over the past couple years. I created this club as a space where people could come and grow and learn and exchange knowledge and ask
16:52:59 <z00ts00t[m]> questions--me included. I am more knowledgeable than some and less than others, but we all just work together to help each other grow. Ya know, it's this thing called being kind... helping others out instead of ridiculing them and trying to make them look small. Idk why it's such a bad thing that I created a place where interested ppl of all skill levels could come exist....
16:53:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because we already have one
16:53:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you didnt invite them?
16:53:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Instead you want us to pay you to invite them? Confused 
16:53:55 <Siren[m]> You sound like rayatina
16:54:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Tell the skilled ones to come get paid.
16:55:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Your marketing skills arent good enough to pitch whatever the mess youre trying to sell 
16:55:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> But bring em over and maybe the convo changes 
16:55:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> And to the tune of a whole lot more than 20 xmr / year
16:55:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont have to be a brilliant c++ dev to get paid.
16:56:03 <monerobull[m]1> The ccs is mainly for dev work
16:56:41 <z00ts00t[m]> Rucknium[m]: Yeah these real cool guys who like to make themselves feel big by belittling others are a real asset to the community. They REALLY make me wanna stick around. I think il go elsewhere to find a XMR community. Thanks to those of you who have been decent and who have forgiven any idiocy I have shown. For the couple who have gone outta their way to make me feel small, mission accomplished. What a terrible fukkin
16:56:41 <z00ts00t[m]> community this is. At least 25% of the engaged members actively try to shit all over anyone who isn't as obviously smart as they are. How miserable it must be to be around that all the gd time. 
16:56:57 <monerobull[m]1> Monerokon is related because devs can't just all sit at home all the time. They should be able to meet their coworkers at least once a year if they want to.
16:56:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Elsewhere? 
16:57:12 <monerobull[m]1> But funding random meetups is a ZCash thing 
16:57:43 <Siren[m]> z00ts00t[m]: I don't understand why you are so triggered. Nobody has done anything to you.
16:57:58 <Siren[m]> We told you you're welcome here and suggested you stayed
16:59:11 <z00ts00t[m]> <Siren[m]> "I mean even if he wants to throw..." <- I lead a group of students w varying skill levels and would like to share my new interest in XMR with them, and was hoping the Monero community would help me formalize doing so with the intention of leading at least some members towards becoming active monero devs in the future. Apparently thats just the most outlandish thing ever conjured up. I'm so sorry for burdening yall
16:59:11 <z00ts00t[m]> MENSA members with my absolute stupidity. Il go now. 
16:59:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Suggested before and after the comments youre complaing aboutb
16:59:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not outlandish 
16:59:40 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: Then you go "Waaaa waaa you're shitting on me. Reee what a terrible fukkin community" 
16:59:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ruck told you, its the Dame story we've heard 20 times before 
16:59:48 <Siren[m]> Sounds like you are not hear to learn
16:59:55 <Siren[m]> You are here to grab funds and run
17:00:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not well thought out, hasnt worked previously, and you've admit to this being tour first time 
17:00:07 <Siren[m]> s/hear/here/
17:00:28 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Instead you want us to pay you..." <- Invite them here to be belittled? No thanks. I was hoping the XMR community would help support the growth and development of such a club. Man you're self-important huh?
17:00:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nono, dont send them to ask for money
17:00:58 <merope> <z00ts00t[m]> "So essentially they have to..." <- Another piece of feedback: pretty much nobody here got paid to learn about Monero and/or how to develop Monero-related projects. We all learn "on our own dime" and then make funding proposals when we have actual projects we want to work on
17:01:06 <monerobull[m]1> Oh oh
17:01:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then Im obligated to comment in the proposal 
17:01:09 <monerobull[m]1> !
17:01:16 <monerobull[m]1> z00ts00t: 
17:01:36 <monerobull[m]1> MAGIC fund does scholarship for students working in cryptography 
17:01:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> He knows 
17:02:17 <z00ts00t[m]> <monerobull[m]1> "The ccs is mainly for dev work" <- See I was not aware of that before just a sec ago (even though anyone who's been around for a couple days should already know that too according to big shot up there). Now that I do, I get it. If I would have known, I never would have submitted such a proposal there. 
17:02:20 <merope> z00ts00t[m]: Look at it from the community's perspective: what do you think would happen if every crypto/blockchain student club came to the CCS to ask for funding to promote "learning about Monero"?
17:02:41 <monerobull[m]1> z00ts00t[m]: Check out https://magicgrants.org/
17:03:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Dejavu
17:03:54 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: Yep nobody has done anything to me, but meanwhile both ofrnxmr has admitted to being gruff and another member made a statement about people needing to lay off of me. But I'm imagining it. All good. 
17:04:08 <monerobull[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: I'm specifically not shilling the monero fund ok 😜
17:04:16 <monerobull[m]1> Grants is broader
17:04:20 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I get that now, but I didn't know that at the time I submitted it. 
17:04:58 <Siren[m]> <z00ts00t[m]> "I lead a group of students w..." <- You cannot ensure they will become active monero devs in the future. What you can do is spread the word for free, since this is an open source project and if they are interested, they will explore it.
17:05:18 <z00ts00t[m]> <Siren[m]> "You are here to grab funds and..." <- Not at all what I'm here for. You think I would have had this long ass discussion if I just wanted some quick funds?? I didn't know CCS was for dev work, I didn't know yall had seen similar props before, etc. 
17:05:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes.
17:05:53 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Its not well thought out..." <- I've said all along it was a draft and that I was happy to have the input that could be used to create a strong proposal. 
17:06:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whether intentional or not, it is what it amounts to
17:06:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which is why everybody has told you the same line about putting in some work first  
17:07:13 <z00ts00t[m]> <merope> "Another piece of feedback..." <- Point taken. I'm just feeling stretched thin lately and would appreciate some credit for my efforts is all. But I agree that's how it works for everyone and I shouldn't expect different. 
17:07:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Perhaps there is something to learn from all of this 
17:08:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Zoot, how did you discover ccs
17:10:10 <z00ts00t[m]> <merope> "Look at it from the community'..." <- That makes sense. I totally understand that. I'm in no way confused as to why my proposal fell short. It makes sense. Especially now that I've been informed of all these other things. I was naive about creating a proposal in the beginning but have now been made clear. I just wish the people like you who have done so in a civil, respectful, decent manner had been in the place of
17:10:10 <z00ts00t[m]> those who sought to use every teaching opportunity to belittle me. Anyway, thanks for the input. 
17:11:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Endor, communities personal hand holder 
17:11:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof, youre fired 
17:11:39 <z00ts00t[m]> <Siren[m]> "You cannot ensure they will..." <- And I'm completely down for that. In the mean time I have to find a way to make this group into a more formal club that can be representative so that we can potentially travel to other campuses in the future. 
17:12:47 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Which is why everybody has..." <- And not once have I argued or complained about doing so. I am good with that. But that's a more longterm objective. That's all. 
17:13:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should be a "yesterday" objective if youre trying to get paid 
17:14:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nobody here knows everything and some people dont know anything technical at all. Everybody is welcome to work on monero and, no, people arent expected to do it for free
17:15:07 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Zoot, how did you discover ccs" <- I don't recall where I began, but I landed on Monero Outreach's website. I understood their title to mean they focused on actual outreach (spreading the word and educating others). Their site had a link directly to CCS which is why I assumed it would be appropriate to propose a request for funding for am academic club to focus on XMR. 
17:16:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> I figured as much.
17:16:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-outreach:monero.social  is pretty slow
17:16:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Again, we dont have VC investors and run on community funds 
17:17:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ahhh. I remember you
17:18:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, plowsof is your man when it comes to ccs
17:18:49 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Endor, communities personal hand..." <- It seems like you think of anything short of complete snarkiness & self-aggrandizing + the belittling of others as being "hand holding". It's so strange. Endor simply took the half a second it took to speak to me in a respectful, civil, decent tone. Yet to you that shows some kind of feebleness. I truly don't get you. You're an enigma... but like one on the shape of a gigantic
17:18:50 <z00ts00t[m]> asshole.  
17:18:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Properly submitting it, what rooms to go to, etc
17:19:24 <monerobull[m]1> Pretty sure I'm like the main outreach person right now 😂
17:19:37 <monerobull[m]1> But i just do stickers
17:19:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Z00t, stop whining Smh.
17:19:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> You were told multiple times with multiple coats of candy, only people didnt use metaphors 
17:20:03 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> I figured as much.
17:20:03 <z00ts00t[m]> > #monero-outreach:monero.social  is pretty slow
17:20:03 <z00ts00t[m]> Huh?
17:20:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Outreach is a dusty corner right now
17:21:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> BUT you did run into plowsof: . So I blame him
17:21:20 <z00ts00t[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Z00t, stop whining Smh.
17:21:20 <z00ts00t[m]> > You were told multiple times with multiple coats of candy, only people didnt use metaphors 
17:21:20 <z00ts00t[m]> Where did I whine? And told me what exactly?? I've lost the lead of your response.
17:21:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> No worries. Move on
17:22:24 <monerobull[m]1> We rely on people finding Monero because they need it. Marketing just doesn't work with the limited budget we have when the competition are VC funded shitcoins with multi million dollar funding rounds
17:22:30 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: No, told me what? I'm confused.. I genuinely wanna know what I was told so I know I didn't miss it. 
17:22:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-offtopic:monero.social  or dm
17:22:56 <monerobull[m]1> I'm sure the college kids who don't have a dealer but still want to get high know of xmr :P
17:23:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Reply to bull
17:23:37 <z00ts00t[m]> monerobull[m]1: Why has monero not gotten any VC support or the like? It seems to me to be light-years more useful and meaningful than those shitcoins. I don't get it. 
17:24:46 <monerobull[m]1> Because we can't offer VCs coins for 10% of the market price 
17:25:34 <z00ts00t[m]> monerobull[m]1: Yeah. Does the community have any intentions of separating moneros name from being attached to DNMs and shit?
17:25:42 <z00ts00t[m]> Or is that not really a huge conc3rn rn?
17:25:51 <Rucknium[m]> Many, many reasons. VCs cannot control Monero since there was no premine, ICO, or dev tax. VCs get nothing from owning XMR. No governance role. No corporate structure. Nothing.
17:26:48 <z00ts00t[m]> monerobull[m]1: Yeah I guess that makes sense. It's just so ridiculous how some of the best projects experience the worst of things and vice versa.
17:27:07 <monerobull[m]1> z00ts00t[m]: I'd argue it's actually perfect marketing 
17:27:55 <monerobull[m]1> Shows how it's the best money
17:27:57 <z00ts00t[m]> monerobull[m]1: Yeah I mean I'm not personally against it, but govts and the masses see use for illegal txs and immediately are turned off
17:28:23 <monerobull[m]1> They don't see the transactions 😎
17:28:47 <monerobull[m]1> Also, the masses still think BTC is the darknet money 
17:29:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is why your uni wont accept it 
17:29:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium[m]: ^
17:31:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> There say xmr is used for illegal tx, but they dont prove it
17:31:53 <RavFX[m]> Only use of BTC is to spend monero where they don't accept monero nor litecoin
17:33:30 <z00ts00t[m]> I'm trying desperately to delete my shitty proposal but cannot seem to find the correct order of buttons. Someone help? If not, il look later. 
17:34:41 <Bayork[m]> The masses will take time to learn about xmr
17:34:53 <monerobull[m]1> RavFX[m]: Trocador.app
17:35:22 <monerobull[m]1> Payment mode is the new xmr to 
17:35:32 <monerobull[m]1> Or what it was called
17:35:34 <z00ts00t[m]> monerobull[m]1: Hmm much appreciated 
17:36:02 <monerobull[m]1> If you're gonna use it, use my referral link 😂
17:37:04 <z00ts00t[m]> monerobull[m]1: I don't have any crypto rly anymore but it's a good tool to store in ya back pocket lol
17:37:27 <merope> <z00ts00t[m]> "Yeah. Does the community have..." <- "The community" has no power to decide what other people think of Monero. Monero is just really good at being private money. One of the consequences of that fact is that criminals are attracted to it to hide their criminal financial activity. That does not mean that Monero is a coin "for criminals", nor that criminals are the only Monero users
17:37:52 <RavFX[m]> I been using trocador since it's out!
17:37:52 <RavFX[m]> Great service. Also tested the payment mode
17:38:20 <z00ts00t[m]> merope: Totally agree. Just trying to think abt how the masses and govt will see it. 
17:38:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> For all we know, 99% of monero traffic is by regular people 
17:38:46 <merope> You can keep telling people that "privacy is not just for criminals", but many won't really listen/get it until they get directly affected by it
17:39:16 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: In all actuality it prolly is. Criminals buy to use immediately. 
17:39:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because its private, my barber doesnt come online to put his name on a poll of legal users 
17:40:47 <z00ts00t[m]> Anyway, I'm out. Thanks everyone for the input and criticism and shit, and I apologize for misunderstanding the intent of the CCS and shit. Sorry for draining your time. Later. 
18:00:17 <revuoxmr> Revuo Monero. Issue 151: December 15 - 22, 2022. http://revuo-xmr.com/issue-151.html
18:44:32 <plowsof11> reading the backlog and dealing with being fired 😟
18:49:29 <nioc> fired?
18:50:39 <rbrunner> https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20221222#c180094
18:52:31 <nioc> rbrunner: thx for saving me from reading the backlog  <3
18:52:48 <rbrunner> It's a bit .... strange anyway today :)
18:53:01 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/zslbgv/your_experience_with_allarkio/
19:02:46 * Mumuks uploaded an image: (65KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/VAODEHXyYPUJewyXsumvlkgA/16717357041357403515028074008561.jpg >
19:08:53 <sech1> context?
19:14:19 <plowsof11> Mumuks: 
19:15:26 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://www.reddit.com/r/cakewallet/comments/zsstrd/promo_now_through_christmas_get_20_cash_back_per/
19:15:43 <Mumuks> <sech1> "context?" <- Kiwifarms
19:16:39 <sech1> They just need to move to Tor
19:30:16 <Mumuks> <sech1> "They just need to move to Tor" <- Sure, but that is not the point
19:59:47 <z00ts00t[m]> Any tasks that need to be done where I could earn some small amounts of XMR??
20:01:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Go away ray
20:01:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whoops, wrong person. You reminded me of a long lost puppy of mine
20:02:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> My Moss sincere apologies alpharabius: 
20:02:46 <Siren[m]> z00ts00t[m]: do you know sed/grep/jq well?
20:03:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> alpharabius:  come back, I found your twin !!!
20:04:21 <z00ts00t[m]> Siren[m]: Idk. Give me a brief description.
20:04:21 <z00ts00t[m]> I'm talking non-tech, community relevant tasks....
20:05:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sell drugs on dnm for me?
20:06:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont mind burning bridges when there's just trolls under em
20:13:14 <Rucknium[m]> z00ts00t: https://bounties.monero.social
20:20:54 <DanIsnotthemanBr> There are trolls under tor bridges???!!??!
20:21:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wheres alpha :( 
20:22:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> I wanted to see what it would look like to have them both in the same room at once 
20:43:00 <z00ts00t[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "I wanted to see what it would..." <- Are you talking about me??
20:44:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> You and alpharabius:  in the same room together, yeah 
20:45:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is his turf
20:47:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof: 
20:48:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Together with luigi, after reviewing the project in a vacuum (the CCS does not care what you like to spread on your toast each morning) we have moved forward with the requested changes.
20:49:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is a complete failure of your duty as _coordinator_, is It not?
20:49:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> When did luigi become more then 1 vote?
20:49:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Aka your boss
20:49:58 <Siren[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/348#note_20121
20:50:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Than*
20:50:19 <Siren[m]> sad to hear that you're enabling this guy who has scammed you not once
20:50:43 <Siren[m]> what were your motives anyways? 
20:50:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Was the ccs paid out in full? Care to explain to the community what went on behind closed doors?
20:52:06 <Siren[m]> how the hell did you people silently proceed to funding with this? 
20:53:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not only funding, but to merging a change to the proposal that was REJECTED 5 months ago, and paying out in full? Or what happened? 
20:53:30 <Siren[m]> this is shady as fuck
20:55:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/334/diffs?diff_id=5372
20:57:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> What happened plowsof 👨‍🌾 🫣
21:00:26 <plowsof11> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/759 and the again a week on gitlab 
21:01:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> And by Plowsof, luigi knows I mean luigi 
21:02:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> And at the meeting he never requested the change and had me on ignore the whole time. Just said thanks for paying me yall, then shitoosted and left
21:04:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then a week later on GitLab luigi reopened the merge request that we open a merge request that has never been anywhere near reaching consensus 
21:04:22 <Siren[m]> he did not request any changes and solopt was merged 2 days ago
21:05:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not controversial. Its changing a proposal without consensus.
21:05:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Without even trying to seek sonsensus 
21:07:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> After a proposal goes to funding, it is what it is. Any changes are exceptions. Period. You cant possibly try to argue otherwise
21:08:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> After a proposal is funded, the  deal is set. The work is to be completed as contracted. 
21:08:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> If there are exceptions, even community cant speak for the people who donated, but community is the only way to change the conditions if something that has already been paid for 
21:09:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Depends what the cost to buy you is
21:09:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Big or small, should not matter.
21:10:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whether 100k or $100, a deal is a deal. Changing said deal can only be done the same way the deal was made
21:12:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> You and luigi weren't the consensus votes to approve the initial proposal, nor the donations to fund it. 
21:12:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Disregarding facts in favor of whatever tf you guys are doing is distasteful at best
21:12:58 <Stnby[m]> Did someone quietly merge the socks guy proposal?
21:13:28 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Css proof of stake
21:14:09 <Stnby[m]> I think monero.shopping is more reputable than mj
21:15:00 <Stnby[m]> It was merged not even during the meeting?
21:15:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> If it happened during the meeting, it wasnt while we were discussing it
21:15:26 * Siren[m] uploaded an image: (17KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/iKNYOdhkaeCFWTOukskDZXdK/image.png >
21:15:40 <Siren[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/334#note_19962
21:15:43 <Siren[m]> the actual MR
21:16:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Luigi said he was going to merge the day if the meeting
21:16:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof ccs report appears to say that him and luigi have decided to merge mj's request regardless of community input 
21:16:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> My question is. "Ha. Ha. Ha. What?"
21:17:06 <Stnby[m]> I guess in response we will not be participating in the CCS as well
21:17:06 <Siren[m]> Why are they even doing this shit?
21:17:07 <Stnby[m]> * as well.
21:18:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Community crowfunding scams 
21:19:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who need consensus when you have luigi
21:20:01 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: We were wise with MoneroPay
21:20:07 <Siren[m]> It's not worth it
21:21:06 <plowsof11>  Give me an hour or so and ill be able to grovel/apologise when i have full use of my fingers instead of thumbs only
21:21:07 <plowsof11>  
21:21:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Save it
21:21:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry doesn't fix intentional bullshit 
21:22:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Metronero closed their proposal. z00ts00t: 
21:22:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Come back
21:22:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> I missed the memo. Were still funding bullshit
21:24:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> For comparison, Metronero has 0 opposition 
21:24:20 <Stnby[m]> We already closed it all fine
21:24:54 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Shadow people did not like it, they called me mean behind my back and that was enough to keep us away from being merged lmao
21:25:07 <Stnby[m]> We will follow pay what you want, if you want model instead and do whatever the f we want :D
21:25:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Made community requested changes, again without opposition, Yet was told to lower rates and revert their ccs, and still hasnt been merged within the 4 week timeframe 
21:25:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Had*
21:25:51 <Siren[m]> whatever dude
21:25:54 <Siren[m]> closed now
21:26:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bad taste in my mouth. Mhm
21:29:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> How bout them comit atomic swaps 🤡
21:32:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> We vote to move observer to funding twice, still sitting there doing nothing 
21:33:22 <plowsof11>  endor00 will finish soloptxmr and we'll all be mining with solar and look back on this incident with fond memories. If Metronero is closed because of this then im sad.  The ccs is not withholding funds (even when certain code of conduct rules are broken) the same way it wouldnt punish someone if a 'tweet from 2014' is unveiled. This happens at the idea stage or when donators are deciding to donate
21:33:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stfu
21:33:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are you a liar or just drunk?
21:34:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> How do you withhold a milestone that doesnt exist? 
21:34:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Spinmaster 
21:34:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're creating payments that dont exist bud
21:34:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> And it has nothing to do with his ouraids-of-ccs behavior, where do you pull shit trash from
21:35:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> How many times do I have to say
21:35:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> He never fucking requested the fucking exception
21:35:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> And was never even close to consensus 
21:35:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> And when offered the opportunity to request it, he didnt.
21:35:56 <Stnby[m]> No need to swear, the ccs logic is broken considering this is even possible thats where we can end the argument
21:36:02 <Stnby[m]> CCS is flawed
21:36:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Luigi just waited a few days and opened the request  
21:36:11 <Stnby[m]> * is flawed, Imo it should not even exist
21:36:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry, with plowsof its personal 😝
21:36:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats my bro
21:36:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im mad 
21:36:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> And disappointed 
21:36:56 <Stnby[m]> * is flawed, Imo it should not even exist in a centralised for all form
21:37:26 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: It either needs to be decentralized or shouldn't exist in the first place
21:37:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> It wont even quack like a duck
21:37:56 <Stnby[m]> Just make a project, video whatever and put a subaddress. Issue solved
21:38:12 <Stnby[m]> * Issue solved, the only problem is outreach
21:39:43 <Siren[m]> We can make our own decentralized CCS lol
21:39:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fork plowsof waas 
21:40:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lolol
21:40:20 <Siren[m]> No, we have donate.kernal.eu
21:40:29 <Siren[m]> * we have https://donate.kernal.eu
21:41:06 <Siren[m]> but we can basically make CCS with transfer captcha (if you don't have stagenet coins, you send mainnet and we refund you after a while)
21:43:59 <Siren[m]> that releases funds automatically for a proposal if thresholds are reached (both in number of votes and percentage of approval)
21:45:27 <Siren[m]> There's actually no point and having a project page works fine but just to show what CCS could have been, it is doable
21:47:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wen decentralized general fund 
21:50:16 <Stnby[m]> The funds are in your wallet. General fund? More like send your XMR to whoever you want directly, no middle man.
21:50:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> One day people will learn 
21:51:09 <plowsof11> Plowsofs waas is broken as seths wallet-rpc docker is broken, need to fix
21:52:18 <Rucknium[m]> Is my WaaS broken?
21:52:26 <Stnby[m]> plowsof11: I got it to run
21:52:38 <Stnby[m]> No idea how but it works
21:53:31 <plowsof11> Rucknium: its fine, nust new i stalls but .. stnby gives me hope
21:53:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think it was the current 18.1.2 that doesnt work
21:53:42 <plowsof11> s/nust/just
21:53:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> But .1.1 does?
21:53:51 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: yes
21:54:11 <Stnby[m]> We are running 1.18.1.2
21:54:16 <Siren[m]> are you???
21:54:24 <Siren[m]> how?
21:54:44 <Stnby[m]> s/1/1018/, s/18.//
21:54:48 <Stnby[m]> s/1/0/
21:55:03 <Siren[m]> I think he borked the permissions on 1.2
21:55:35 * Stnby[m] uploaded an image: (205KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/mNDnlxJNgxeTIuLbAInqJaaM/image.png >
21:56:19 * Stnby[m] uploaded an image: (335KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/aVMxuyotqjQXeeAxcZAoMTAt/image.png >
21:56:38 <Stnby[m]> Love how the wallet is world readable
21:56:40 <Siren[m]> world readable keys and passwd
21:56:41 <Stnby[m]> but who cares
21:57:51 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: samih kamjar will steal your funds after doing an irc splitnet dns attack on your postgresql through donate.kernal.eu
21:58:31 <Stnby[m]> changed it to 600, too bad for the IRC dude
21:58:46 <Siren[m]> :     (
21:58:58 <Siren[m]> now do docker compose down && docker compose up -d
21:59:06 <Siren[m]> still works?
22:01:21 <sgp[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "https://www.reddit.com/r/..." <- Thanks for sharing :)
22:01:39 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Docker-compose up -d —force-recreate
22:02:56 <Stnby[m]> "wallet.keys" is opened by another wallet program
22:03:08 <Stnby[m]> Stupid messages that make 0 sense
22:03:31 <Siren[m]> it is in fact not
22:03:39 <Siren[m]> the wallet rpc server error handing is stupid
22:04:11 <Siren[m]> it does that when it cannot read the wallet
22:05:14 <Stnby[m]> Ok works, ownership 1000:1000, perms 600 work fine
22:05:20 <Stnby[m]> * perms 600 all work fine
22:17:11 <sgp[m]> After reading the chat today, I have quite a few thoughts. I've seen firsthand the discussions both in community meetings and behind the scenes for CCS proposals, far longer than I recall most of the usernames here being active during. There is probably going to be a decent amount of text incoming, and I'm only speaking of my own personal opinion here, not for anyone else:
22:17:22 <z00ts00t[m]> ofrnxmr ??
22:17:36 <DanIsnotthemanBr> You can UID and GID in the compose file too
22:18:58 <sgp[m]> You need to get it in your heads that the CCS is NOT a "community-run" platform. That's definitely not true, or else a loud person could show up and steer all direction. Instead, it's run by the Core Team (mostly luigi), who takes community opinion from the meetings into account. There's no weighted vote. There's no other sort of binding vote. It's Core's thing; their service to the community
22:21:01 <sgp[m]> It has ALWAYS been this way. There's no way to have a "community-run" platform because 99% of commentors just want to drive-by comment; they don't want to actually stick around to be liable for any tough decisions. If it was just an open poll (even if you could restrict people to 1 accurately without manipulation), it would be arguably even more political than before
22:23:03 <sgp[m]> I think people hold on the the CCS as "sacred." Like, that it's the only way the community can be involved in raising money. When did we agree that everything needs to be through 1 platform, and that the platform is supposed to reflect everyone's opinions completely? Even in its early days, the FFS (old name) was never supposed to be the "only" way of doing things. It was set up to fill a gap, and it served that gap well at the time
22:23:08 <Stnby[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "You can UID and GID in the..." <- Yeah but because they are using this https://github.com/boxboat/fixuid
22:25:02 <sgp[m]> Without a set voting process in place by luigi (if A happens, then do B), there is going to be some discretion involved. That discretion is a FEATURE not a BUG. If you don't like their decisions, then you should invest your time into other platforms, etc. There are certainly consequences to bad decisions, but the Monero community needs to be diverse enough to not fall apart because of an operator's decisions
22:25:08 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: I don't like the fact that it says:
22:25:08 <Siren[m]> ```
22:25:08 <Siren[m]> fixuid should only be used in development Docker containers. DO NOT INCLUDE in a production container image
22:25:08 <Siren[m]> ```
22:25:22 <Siren[m]> and we were using older version of that image in prod
22:25:25 <Siren[m]> now we can't
22:25:31 <Siren[m]> shouldn't
22:26:31 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 👆
22:26:49 <Siren[m]> so back to cornfedhobo we go :D
22:27:11 <Siren[m]> s/cornfedhobo/cornfeedhobo/
22:27:12 <Siren[m]> https://github.com/cornfeedhobo/docker-monero
22:27:16 <sgp[m]> I give this recommendation to CCS commentors: I encourage you to get involved in some Monero fundraising process where you are actively liable for your own recommendations. Get more involved than just comment. Start campaigns. Get involved in committees where you actually need to own up to these decisions. Have a more direct role
22:27:46 <Siren[m]> oh no he didn't https://github.com/cornfeedhobo/docker-monero/blob/master/Dockerfile#L100
22:27:50 <Siren[m]> he also has fixuid
22:27:57 <sgp[m]> Core is going to make decisions that not everyone agrees with
22:28:18 <Stnby[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: > The developer can set a default user to run the first process with the Dockerfile USER instruction. When starting a container, the operator can override the USER instruction by passing the -u option.
22:28:42 <Stnby[m]> So the thing is it should inherit the uid from the entrypoint, not too sure what purpose that Go tool serves
22:28:50 <Stnby[m]> * the entrypoint (shell script), not
22:29:27 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: it's useful if you want to change uid/gid runtime
22:29:33 <Siren[m]> https://boxboat.com/2017/07/25/fixuid-change-docker-container-uid-gid/
22:30:35 <sgp[m]> And finally, for everyone's sanity please be nice to one another. If an inexperienced person shows up who opens a CCS proposal, it reflects very badly on everyone if they are rudely shoved off on the side. Even if the proposal is not a good fit, or you feel is missing context or something, don't lash out and result in a closed-off community. You're basically saying "this community is for me not you". When talking to people who have
22:30:35 <sgp[m]> put in some effort to try something, please at least try to be nice to them
22:35:07 <Siren[m]> sgp[m]: What is the point of the community meetings if the core speaks behind people's backs and the community consensus is completely dismissed? I don't care, as of today we closed our own proposal and we have our own platform anyways. But it's very interesting that we had full support (on gitlab and during the community meetings), added everything we were asked to (only to be asked to remove the same stuff we were asked to add
22:35:07 <Siren[m]> later, we still complied and made the changes we were asked to make).  But still did not get merged, apparently shadow people have spoken behind our backs. 
22:35:07 <Siren[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/353
22:36:02 <Siren[m]> We had a working demo, various graphs, history in the community and we are not even anonymous contributors
22:36:50 <sgp[m]> > <@siren:kernal.eu> What is the point of the community meetings if the core speaks behind people's backs and the community consensus is completely dismissed? I don't care, as of today we closed our own proposal and we have our own platform anyways. But it's very interesting that we had full support (on gitlab and during the community meetings), added everything we were asked to (only to be asked to remove the same stuff we were asked
22:36:50 <sgp[m]> to add later, we still complied and made the changes we were asked to make).  But still did not get merged, apparently shadow people have spoken behind our backs. 
22:36:50 <sgp[m]> > https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/353
22:36:50 <sgp[m]> I understand your frustration on your own proposal, and I obviously can't speak for why this wasn't merged. However, this speaks to the fact that the CCS shouldn't be viewed as a community-run thing. It's a Core-run, community-advised-as-Core-seems-fit platform
22:37:08 <Siren[m]> The name and CCS webpage is misleading
22:37:20 <plowsof11> there is some patience involved as things can not move as fast as we like, e.g. moneroj .net was about to be merged to funding when they closed the proposal (they went on to do great things however, see trocador)
22:37:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> sgp:  youre out of the loop
22:37:51 <sgp[m]> Siren[m]: yes, arguably so
22:37:56 <Siren[m]> sgp[m]: Someone said I was mean to plowsof
22:38:11 <Siren[m]> * I was a mean, * mean person to plowsof
22:38:39 <Rucknium[m]> This is a good time to mention an alternative that has a democratic and transparent structure: MAGIC Monero Fund. Apply today to be a voter, committee member, or for a grant/fundraiser! :D
22:42:31 <sgp[m]> Rucknium[m]: Obviously I'm biased but I like this structure. It was set up as it was with CCS limitations in mind. People elect a committee. Proposers now have a specific committee to speak with on proposals. If the voters hate the way the committee members are acting and disagree, they can campaign to vote them out and replace them. Campaigners are isolated from day-to-day drama somewhat, though they still need to be on good terms
22:42:31 <sgp[m]> with voters overall. Proposers don't need to campaign to whatever a broad idea of a "community" is without any real status updates.
22:42:56 <sgp[m]> * status updates on what sorts of approvals are required.
22:46:00 <sgp[m]> Remember, I'm the one who started the community meetings (with rehrar) over 5 years ago now. They were started well after the CCS/FFS was formed. The point wasn't to specifically decide what to do with these, but instead to provide a community forum for people to share their thoughts on the proposals. I was a random person who showed up; these meeting "decisions" weren't binding
22:46:21 <sgp[m]> and plowsof is a rando person who showed up and was suckered into doing them now :p
22:48:12 <Siren[m]> welp
22:50:01 <sgp[m]> Sadly I'm not here to say everything's ok. I agree with you, everything is not ok. I'm not here to convince you to believe in the CCS, or anything like that. I think you all "believe" in the CCS more than me.
22:50:13 <plowsof11> luigi will be handling the ccs merges soon, they've been busy the past week  (currently only monero observer definitely) 
22:50:55 <Stnby[m]> Not at all in my opinion CCS should not even exist on the getmonero.org site. As theres 0 community in it.
22:51:37 <Stnby[m]> MAGIC is all fine they are at least not pretending to be something "official" or "community"
22:51:50 <sgp[m]> MoneroCoreTeamFundraisingArbitrationPlatform.org
22:52:42 <Siren[m]> you guys own monero.com
22:53:06 <Siren[m]> it's time you add a CNAME crowdfunding.monero.com :D 
22:53:14 <plowsof11> have you checked the feedback on reddit regarding this situation? their views are also taken into account. to say there is 0 community involvement means we can end the community meetings right now (if this was true)
22:53:40 <Siren[m]> everyone's views except gitlab and matrix are taken into account
22:54:07 <Siren[m]> or behind closed doors, dms
22:54:19 <sgp[m]> Siren[m]: sure, we can set it up solely for people to fund my next yacht :p
22:54:36 <sgp[m]> "next"
22:54:36 <Siren[m]> NOW that's a proposal I would fund
22:54:37 <Siren[m]> rather than the CCS general fund
22:54:51 <sgp[m]> you know what you're getting there 😂
22:54:58 <Siren[m]> Me and Stnby know how to sail
22:55:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof11: End em
22:55:24 <Siren[m]> A separate proposal for staff if you need it :D
22:55:33 <sgp[m]> haha
22:56:12 <Stnby[m]> Could have a place for monero.shopping as well, we all would be giga rich
22:56:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who needs meetings. Luigi and Plowsof can make decisions they want without worrying about community members
22:56:21 <Stnby[m]> * as well on the yacht, we
22:56:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> And xmr.beauty
22:56:53 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: yeah well they need to make this clear in CCS policy page and also the homepage
22:57:14 <sgp[m]> I believe luigi does care deeply about the community thoughts, but they aren't going to take the popular opinion 100% of the time
22:57:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not the popular opinion
22:57:27 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: I will add a notice/post on kernal and all of our monero related domains / project pages
22:57:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its the correct one 
22:57:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Their decision was to change a proposal for no reason, in a way that they claim benefits the community 
22:57:49 <sgp[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: no the correct decision is to runnel all these funds for my yacht, obviously
22:57:54 <sgp[m]> s/runnel/funnel/
22:57:55 <Stnby[m]> All we ask for is some transparency
22:58:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Agreed 
22:58:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> See. Sgp is a very smart man.
22:58:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Thats why there on the big bucks
22:58:49 <Stnby[m]> I was into the namecoin shit show, well the main disctator dev/project domain owner privatised and killed it
22:59:03 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Eth?
22:59:03 <Stnby[m]> Would the same happen to getmonero.org?
22:59:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> We have monero.com
22:59:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right sgo
22:59:31 <sgp[m]> Stnby[m]: the community members should be fighting to make sure that sort of thing is very difficult
22:59:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> * Right sgp
22:59:51 <Stnby[m]> Why are we here and what is the purpose of ccs.getmonero.org?
23:00:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its like z00ts little meetups
23:00:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> To find ways to beg 
23:00:26 <Siren[m]> to scam
23:00:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whoops, thats alpha, sorry. Keep confusing you two
23:00:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or 4
23:01:34 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Scale up=4
23:02:23 <sgp[m]> Stnby[m]: the CCS is a Core Team-run service that was set up to fill a void. That's all
23:02:53 <sgp[m]> it has adapted a bit over the years, and they generally care about community sentiment, but it's still their platform
23:02:56 <Siren[m]> someone gave rayatina free money and now he keeps joining here with new alts and proposals
23:03:16 <Siren[m]> petition to rename community crowd funding to core crowd funding
23:03:54 <DanIsnotthemanBr> The de-central bank of monero
23:05:05 <plowsof11> as CCS' spinmaster i declare the decision a huge success for the community, in standing up for protecting our contributors from being cancelled!
23:05:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> What does payment have to do with cancellation?
23:05:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> And why do you keep spinning the story like we are biased ? You are biased
23:06:38 <Siren[m]> you literally cancelled us
23:06:47 <Siren[m]> for no apparent reason
23:07:11 <sgp[m]> no my demand to plowsof to funnel the CCS funding was cancelled, also for no apparent reason
23:07:14 <plowsof11> no merges to the funding page have been done yet 
23:07:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> We need to wait for luigi to decide sgp: 
23:08:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> If its monerotesla, all rockets are go 🚀
23:08:40 <plowsof11> an open proposal on the idea page is not a cancelled one 
23:09:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe a try asking for a Tesla 
23:11:38 <plowsof11> i was pushing for feedback for Metronero so it could be acted on as i felt people weren't clearly sharing their criticisms - before my involvement - the proposal would have been left to rot and disappear, simply because nobody would give a "change this and you have my vote" reaction 
23:12:27 <plowsof11> which we got from another meeting finally, and now we're just waiting for 'things to happen' 
23:12:36 <Siren[m]> 3-4 meetings, we already received criticism and acted upon it. All in favor of the community.
23:12:56 <Siren[m]> I don't care about what people think of me personally
23:13:14 <Siren[m]> This project doesn't even consist of only me
23:13:35 <plowsof11> and now, patience - luigi is a volunteer also - and has to catch up on alot before handling merges to the funding page 
23:14:26 <plowsof11> moneroj .net - was 'why did they close an 7~9 updoot proposal? oh well' 
23:15:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> 0 downvotes lmao
23:16:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> You were pushing? Who is "you"
23:16:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Speak for yourself 
23:16:57 <Siren[m]> I know who said it, I'm also disappointed in him. Also about the fact that he lied about how MAGIC grants work as well in order to make his friend look better.
23:17:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> And I didnt even upvote until after the last meeting 5 days ago
23:17:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> But you heard olowsof
23:18:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> He's going to use Reddit to justify paying mj
23:18:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wasting tome talking to someone with no backbone 
23:18:38 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Who?
23:18:58 <Siren[m]> s/grants/funds/
23:19:09 <Siren[m]> s/grants/proposals/
23:19:16 <Siren[m]> [redacted]
23:19:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Voldemort
23:19:33 <Rucknium[m]> Siren[m]: Are you talking about me?
23:19:33 <Siren[m]> the ccs shadow people that actually make the decisions
23:19:46 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: Yeah
23:19:52 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Deep state?
23:20:11 <Rucknium[m]> Point to the lie
23:20:22 <Rucknium[m]> That's an accusation
23:20:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right
23:20:30 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: You said that MAGIC proposals were not funded by MAGIC
23:21:27 <Siren[m]> But doesn't MAGIC end up funding them if a proposal fails collect enough funds on its own?
23:21:37 <Siren[m]> s/them/it/
23:21:41 <Siren[m]>  * But doesn't MAGIC end up funding it if a proposal fails to collect enough funds on its own?
23:21:52 <Rucknium[m]> Some of them are, some of them aren't. mj's isn't funded by the MMF general fund. Here's the current fundraising progress: https://monerofund.org/projects/statistical_attack_reduction
23:22:03 <Rucknium[m]> No
23:22:05 <Rucknium[m]> If it fails, it fails.
23:22:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is it 25$
23:23:39 <Rucknium[m]> Yes
23:23:59 <Rucknium[m]> I said "A likely outcome is: the campaign is not funded. mj doesn't complete the work. OSPEAD has certain blind spots that can diminish user privacy (but it will still be much better than it is today). I did everything I could. I'm just trying to get on with the people's business here."
23:23:59 <Rucknium[m]> https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20221126#c166466
23:24:40 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: Is that explicitly written somewhere? After reading here I came up with that conclusion:
23:24:41 <Siren[m]> https://monerofund.org/faq
23:25:22 <Rucknium[m]> "If a campaign fails to raise the full amount of funds, then the committee will work with the intended recipient to revise the scope of the project, or the raised funds will be used on related projects."
23:26:05 <Rucknium[m]> Maybe that could be clearer. Appears pretty clear to me.
23:26:37 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: Could be clearer
23:27:47 <Rucknium[m]> Make a PR :)
23:28:49 <Rucknium[m]> https://github.com/MAGICGrants/campaign-site/blob/master/docs/faq.md
23:29:41 <Siren[m]> I'll open an issue so you can write in your own words
23:29:46 <Rucknium[m]> Siren: I think my CCS proposal was in limbo for longer than yours. I know the process isn't fantastic.
23:30:01 <Siren[m]> Is there a matrix group for MAGIC?
23:30:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> You opened your ccs before we had a coordinator with a self proposed mandate to come to consensus within 4 weeks or 2 meetings
23:30:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> And to liase between core. Not do their bidding and decide for us
23:31:03 <nioc> mandate or goal?
23:31:08 <nioc> words matter
23:31:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Goal perhaps 
23:31:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> But pushing it back because of shadow persons is nit a goal
23:31:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats lying about it being a goal and doing what your told instead 
23:31:47 <nioc> lucky me I have been napping today  :)  
23:31:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Youre
23:31:58 <nioc> also Cat on her mining rig
23:32:03 <Rucknium[m]> We have a MAGIC Matrix server, but I don't think a room or a Space. sgp do we have one?
23:32:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> That chair must be warm 
23:32:40 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: Nobody has to like anybody and I personally don't have any problems with you. Birds told us some things were told in DMs and not in community meetings/matrix and these things became a roadblock? I was upset by the transparency.
23:32:54 <Siren[m]> We did not know CCS worked this way
23:33:13 <Siren[m]> And we won't participate in it again
23:35:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Everyone thinks im the bad guy, but I tell people directly if I have a problem 
23:35:07 <Rucknium[m]> I shared feedback to you in -community meetings too. I talk with plowsof about many things, as I have for over a year. I think it could make sense for me not to talk with plowsof in DMs about CCS matters now that he has the coordinator role; you're right.
23:35:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive asked plowsof to pass messages for me - I dont think he does.
23:36:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> If I have a problem with something, I take it to the person responsible directly 
23:36:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> And I sign my name to it, both in private and public 
23:37:09 <Rucknium[m]> Siren And Stnby got defensive to criticism in meetings. That's somewhat natural, but it makes we think over what I'll say rather than just saying it here.
23:37:20 <Rucknium[m]> makes *me think over
23:37:26 <Siren[m]> Rucknium[m]: Where again?
23:38:02 <Rucknium[m]> When some of us suggested adding a full plugin solution
23:38:26 <Siren[m]> I mean we did end up adding the milestone
23:38:39 <Rucknium[m]> Yes, and I appreciated that.
23:38:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> And then were told to remove it? 😆
23:38:57 <Siren[m]> We are not PHP developers nor we think we woocommerce is good
23:39:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or did the plugin milestone stay? 
23:39:21 <Siren[m]> I don't think that necessarily makes us mean, we would help anybody out who wanted to write plugins
23:39:43 <plowsof11> i contacted people to obtain feedback for Metronero and shared that with the moneropay team to speed things up 
23:39:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next time just write whatever you went in the milestones 
23:39:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Deliver half of ut
23:39:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then demand the money
23:40:02 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: we were told to remove maintenance altogether and shrink the plugin milestone
23:40:34 <Siren[m]> only write the woocommerce plugin and remove the sylius or shorten the amount of time for that milestone
23:40:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds like somethigb someone would sign their name to
23:41:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> A request*
23:41:54 <Siren[m]> well now you won't get a woocommerce plugin :D
23:42:02 <Siren[m]> only sylius ahahaha
23:42:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> You guys need to take the how to scam course 
23:43:06 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: who said metronero will be free? 😎
23:43:14 <Siren[m]> enjoy proprietary SaaS
23:43:17 <Siren[m]> jk jk
23:43:20 <Stnby[m]> The proposal I worked on with Siren. I did not mind changing it up, its funded by community after all, yeah transparency issues are a bit sad.
23:43:20 <Stnby[m]> But silently secretly releasing funds to some perverted sock f***** that does not respect his own friend (the one that they worked on that scam of a solar mining rig)
23:43:25 <Rucknium[m]> I don't necessarily share my thought about everything and everyone since that would get tedious. If you want my unvarnished view about yourself, then say so.
23:43:26 <sgp[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "We have a MAGIC Matrix server..." <- Nope! Ideally the committee chan make an official one :)
23:44:13 <Stnby[m]> s/f*****/guy/
23:44:29 <plowsof11> have i failed in the handling of Metronero?
23:44:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium:  not sure if you mean me, but if so, my ears dont bleed 
23:44:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, you failed the handling of ccs plowsof: 
23:45:02 <Siren[m]> plowsof11: we failed in understanding how CCS works
23:45:18 <Stnby[m]> Plowsof was a good person giving insights
23:46:43 <Rucknium[m]> ofrnxmr: You've definitely grown on me. You stick to your guns, and I respect you for that. I don't agree with your insistence that CCS proposers ignore the purchasing power (fiat value) of XMR.
23:48:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont insist they ignore it, but the same people complaining, dont complain or return the extra when they profit.
23:49:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> The first proposal I has was for the proposer to indicate exactly whether they require fiat or xmr.
23:49:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> But _no one_ wants tl give back the extra xmr if choosing fiat, so ive settled on "ok. XMR only then. The way it should be anyway"
23:49:51 <Rucknium[m]> Stnby: Siren This is what I said to plowsof about Metronero on Dec 8:
23:50:06 <Rucknium[m]> The attitude of the devs is my way or the highway. I think a lot of bug reports and customer complaints may get a response of RTFM and don't use platforms we don't like
23:50:06 <Rucknium[m]> We would have gotten something for cheaper if we went with that other guy
23:50:06 <Rucknium[m]> I'm not too enthusiastic, but it may be donor beware at this point
23:51:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Was this in regards to the conversations with bitcartcc regarding subaddresses?
23:51:38 <plowsof11> "_was_ a good person" "failed the handling of ccs" - ok ok i'll take it, 'has been known to be a good person in the past, and has opportunities to surpass past performances!' 
23:51:44 <Siren[m]> > <@rucknium:monero.social> The attitude of the devs is my way or the highway. I think a lot of bug reports and customer complaints may get a response of RTFM and don't use platforms we don't like
23:51:44 <Siren[m]> > We would have gotten something for cheaper if we went with that other guy
23:51:44 <Siren[m]> > I'm not too enthusiastic, but it may be donor beware at this point
23:51:44 <Siren[m]> Unfortunately your feedback was not relayed to me like this.
23:52:07 <Siren[m]> I understand your concern.
23:52:16 <Rucknium[m]> This was "that other guy" : https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/345
23:53:35 <Rucknium[m]> By "donor beware" I meant that the decision on whether to fund can be passed to donors, i.e. the donors should do due diligence after merger of the proposal.
23:53:44 <Siren[m]> `i only have negative feedback from 2 people 'why suddenly 200+ xmr' and 'they are mean, and will be mean to customers / support' `
23:53:44 <Siren[m]> This is what was relayed to us
23:53:55 <Siren[m]> Sorry plowsof
23:53:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cheap doesnt always mean worth it 
23:54:40 <Siren[m]>  * `i only have negative feedback from 2 people 'why suddenly 200+ xmr' and 'they are mean, and will be mean to customers / support' `
23:54:40 <Siren[m]> `Rucknium thinks you a big meanie`
23:54:40 <Siren[m]> This is what was relayed to us
23:54:44 <Siren[m]>  * `i only have negative feedback from 2 people 'why suddenly 200+ xmr' and 'they are mean, and will be mean to customers / support' `
23:54:44 <Siren[m]> `Rucknium thinks you a big meanie`
23:54:45 <Siren[m]> This is what was relayed to us
23:56:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats why I say "plowsof, I cant open a DM and dont want to be too unfiltered in public right now. Quote and send this to xyz for me please" = never a misunderstanding 
23:56:33 <plowsof11> and i explained that this was not the case to Rucknium, (as i have seen it with my own eyes your interactions with customers / support)
23:56:33 <Rucknium[m]> I also said, later in the conversation, "Not taking criticism is not good"
23:56:33 <Rucknium[m]> This was on December 8 before edits were made to the proposal
23:57:16 <Siren[m]> We updated the proposal usually a day or two before the next meeting
23:57:17 <plowsof11> yes, i've tried to explain that the feedback of 'we want woocommerce' is not that 'we consider woocommerce to be the best thing since sliced bread - we literally only know 'it works' and is in use already 
23:59:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is it too late to forward mj's money to sgp's yacht fund?