01:36:24 <RavFX[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "the website?" <- Non, when I tried to make a "payment" exchange.
01:36:24 <RavFX[m]> Ended up using another service for that one
06:39:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof:  Jan 14th is too long
06:39:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Jan 7th makes more sense 
08:25:50 <carlae88[m]> hi
08:26:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Morning
08:26:43 <carlae88[m]> can't connect to liberchat with tor ?
08:27:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Youll have to follow liberas tor setup instructions 
08:28:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://libera.chat/guides/connect#accessing-liberachat-via-tor
08:28:22 <carlae88[m]> thanks
08:29:05 <carlae88[m]> but not cool, it should be ok from start
08:29:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can use matrix over tor easily 🤷‍♂️
08:29:55 <carlae88[m]> someone have a real anonymous decentralized way because matrix ask mail... 
08:29:56 <carlae88[m]> ?
08:30:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Only some matrix homeservers require email 
08:30:27 <carlae88[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: done thank
08:31:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero.social didnt used to require email, but too much spam without some method to slow down account creation
08:35:13 <carlae88[m]> there is just a hello text
08:35:21 <carlae88[m]> what ?
08:36:04 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Use alias email
09:13:43 <carlae88[m]> is it possible to self host matrix server ?
09:14:27 <Siren[m]> Yes
09:15:16 <carlae88[m]> thanks
09:16:07 <Siren[m]> https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse
09:16:07 <Siren[m]> https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite
14:21:07 <carlae88[m]> why --restricted-rpc is necessary to be public node ?
14:25:18 <still_stuck[m]> resist all of these governments at any cost
14:25:57 <still_stuck[m]> the level to which they went with trapping people in bureaucratic processes and then "freeing" them from the same by basically honeypotting them is a travesty
14:26:58 <still_stuck[m]> monerica.com 
14:27:52 <carlae88[m]> agree
14:28:01 <carlae88[m]> never trust them again
14:28:04 <carlae88[m]> it's over
14:28:31 <carlae88[m]> no more vaccine, never accept EID & CBDC
14:28:56 <carlae88[m]> ready to close bank account if necessary even if it will be difficult
14:29:30 <still_stuck[m]> everything that people need to realize is that if they don't cooperate and if they don't believe their shit then the whole structure will simply fall apart anyways by itself
14:29:34 <still_stuck[m]> because it's all based on fucking belief
14:30:22 <still_stuck[m]> there is an average of what, 1 cop on 500 humans? it's all make belief, there is 0 power
14:49:05 <carlae88[m]> when i see nitter for twitter, invidious & piped for youtube, somethink is telling me GAFA & system is in loosing trend ^^
14:49:46 <carlae88[m]> mastodon for disdord and monero for fiat
14:50:14 <carlae88[m]> beause bitcoin is pre cbdc ^^
14:51:32 <carlae88[m]> tor for isp and we are ok
14:52:35 <carlae88[m]> they will pus the cbdc and we will finish them
14:52:39 <carlae88[m]> s/pus/push/
14:52:55 <Morpheus[m]> Just an announcement: we were updating the Trocador.app server this morning, some trades couldn't be completed. The problem is now solved, trading should be normal again. If you were trying to trade and experienced issues, now you can try again. 
14:52:57 <Siren[m]> As a discord alternative there is also https://revolt.chat/
14:55:13 <carlae88[m]> we need self hosting
14:55:31 <carlae88[m]> because never trust them
14:56:20 <Siren[m]> carlae88[m]: What OS do you use?
14:56:48 <carlae88[m]> in fact, onion share is ok
14:56:55 <carlae88[m]> Siren[m]: linux of course ^^
14:57:53 <Siren[m]> Good
14:59:00 <Siren[m]> Securing phones is such a headache
14:59:11 <carlae88[m]> everyone should be
14:59:37 <Siren[m]> If you want a dumbphone nowadays, they run KaiOS which has gapps and telemetry built-in...
14:59:45 <carlae88[m]> but i have an iphone :/
15:00:06 <Siren[m]> Both android and ios are fucked
15:00:09 <carlae88[m]> orbot is routing all via tor
15:01:18 <carlae88[m]> do you have solution ?
15:01:23 <Siren[m]> Like android being open source ain't an excuse because android phones all have lotsa proprietary blobs and google basically has to approve your usage of android as a company if you wanna build a phone and distribute
15:02:14 <carlae88[m]> i heard about graphen os
15:02:30 <Siren[m]> Yes that's great but it only runs on google pixel
15:03:14 <carlae88[m]> shit
15:03:17 <Siren[m]> Google pixel experience isn't the best
15:03:52 <Siren[m]> The always somehow manage to fuck it up with the newer android versions, you have something called the black screen of death
15:04:21 <Siren[m]> I'm interested in this, not sure if it's any good but it can make calls https://www.clockworkpi.com/
15:06:14 <Siren[m]> Also can root kaiOS devices (not all) to remove gapps but the OS is still a blackbox and it's hard to develop apps for it  https://wiki.bananahackers.net/root/temporary-root
15:07:36 <carlae88[m]> clockpi is like a small computer ?
15:07:43 <carlae88[m]> portable
15:07:48 <Siren[m]> I was considering buying a nokia flip and then rooting it. KaiOS is a fork of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS so apps are browser based. I was thinking I could somehow turn Element into an app and then I saw the documentation for developing KaiOS apps lmao.
15:07:51 <Siren[m]> Pain.
15:07:54 <Siren[m]> carlae88[m]: Yeah
15:08:36 <carlae88[m]> but it's not a phone
15:08:41 <carlae88[m]> i'm right ?
15:09:53 <Siren[m]> Depends on what you call a phone. This thing looks like a handheld console but it runs a linux distro and has modem so you can make calls and receive/send sms.
15:10:55 <carlae88[m]> +
15:12:29 <Siren[m]> Calculator :D
15:23:09 <Siren[m]> s/The/They/
16:07:15 <RavFX[m]> Nokia 3110 they sell at the convenient store run "Nokia OS 4.0 SP2"). Wonder how it compare to other OS like Graphene.
16:07:16 <RavFX[m]> For a "phone" use with mean Phone and SMS.
16:09:53 <RavFX[m]> They also sell phone similar to Alcatel 1068, not sure of the exact model but look the same
16:10:31 <Siren[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Nokia 3110 they sell at the convenient store run "Nokia OS 4.0 SP2"). Wonder how it compare to other OS like Graphene.
16:10:31 <Siren[m]> > 
16:10:31 <Siren[m]> > For a "phone" use with mean Phone and SMS.
16:10:31 <Siren[m]> Is that symbian based or maemo?
16:10:44 <ceetee[m]> Graphene is pretty damn good if you know how to use it correctly. The only part that leaks a significant amount of information is the mobile phone connections - and "call and SMS only" phones have the same weakness
16:11:06 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: Good question
16:11:11 <Siren[m]> :D
16:12:37 <Siren[m]> Or whatever the hell this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_30%2B
16:12:47 <Siren[m]> Some new nokias run this including the new xpressmusic
16:13:36 <RavFX[m]> Serie 30 is "Nokia OS"
16:13:44 <Siren[m]> Ah
16:14:51 <Siren[m]> I wish they made internet tablets again
16:14:56 <Siren[m]> With Maemo
16:15:05 <Siren[m]> I'd buy it
16:17:05 <RavFX[m]> "Since 2017, a new release called Maemo Leste is in development which is based on Devuan.[9]"
16:17:05 <RavFX[m]> Cool, they did choose to fork the Debian fork without Systemd!
16:18:07 <Siren[m]> I think they're back to Finnish devs after Microsoft destroyed them hard
16:18:21 <Siren[m]> Hopefully they will release something with that
16:18:32 <RavFX[m]> Would be nice indeed
16:22:22 <martin03[m]> why zec aren't accepted more as xmr?
16:22:48 <martin03[m]> zec seem pretty strong on privacy and don't fuck regulations 
16:23:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> It doesnt work
16:23:05 <RavFX[m]> Because ZEC is a scam like 97% of the others coins
16:23:05 <RavFX[m]> It flawed
16:23:22 <martin03[m]> im surprise is nowhere accepted as xmr 
16:23:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Centralized, dev tax, pos, unable to handle private tx. Its hot stinking trash
16:23:44 <martin03[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Because ZEC is a scam like 97% of the others coins
16:23:44 <martin03[m]> > It flawed
16:23:44 <martin03[m]> how zec privacy flaw? 
16:23:49 <RavFX[m]> Optional privacy is bad
16:23:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Going to pos*
16:24:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> martin03[m]: Yes. It doesnt work
16:24:33 <RavFX[m]> martin03: Just try to get private ZEC on exchanges
16:24:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is zksnarks private etc? Sure.
16:24:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Does the blockchain actually work? Meaning, can it handle private transactions? No
16:24:45 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ok i really don't care about that to much tbh 
16:24:45 <martin03[m]> i just want privacy payments replaced traditional payments
16:24:55 <RavFX[m]> I think there is only one exchange that will send you ZEC privately but you have to KYC yourself first
16:24:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well you should
16:25:08 <martin03[m]> zec can be pos or run by corporations
16:25:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not a fairly distributed, decentralized project if one person owns the entire validation netowkr 
16:25:29 <Siren[m]> Zec is already run by a company
16:25:39 <martin03[m]> RavFX[m]: just made a zec wallet with z address right?
16:25:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> No
16:25:58 <RavFX[m]> martin03[m]: Try putting that Z address in Binance or others 😂
16:26:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> You cannot withdraw to z addressed 
16:26:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Either way, thats all just rules and regulations
16:26:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> IT DOESNT EVEN WORK
16:26:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> slow down and read
16:26:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> IT DOESNT WORK
16:26:31 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Trollish
16:26:37 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: you can?
16:26:38 <martin03[m]> t to z address are possible 
16:26:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Brother. You're not listwning
16:26:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> It. Doesn't. Work.
16:27:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> It being the entire blockchain is broken 
16:27:32 <martin03[m]> but it still better right than mixing bitcoin
16:27:35 <RavFX[m]> It's been spammed to oblivion because of flaw in fees system I think. 
16:27:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> For months someone must spammed z transactions and destroyed everyones ability to sync a wallet 🥲
16:27:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its never been designed to handle private tx 
16:27:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its been designed to support them
16:28:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> martin03[m]: Martib
16:28:18 <martin03[m]> RavFX[m]: i guess that's a huge flaw on zec 
16:28:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry, but whats your major malfunction?
16:28:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitcoin mixing, zcash..
16:28:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why would I use shit that doesnt work?
16:29:04 <martin03[m]> pretty sure the average people who love crypto regulations & taxes will against using privacy coin 
16:29:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> And why would you shill thus garbage here? 
16:29:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> We use Monero because that other shit doesnt work
16:29:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> martin03[m]: Are they against using fiat? No. Your arguement doesnt hold water 
16:29:41 <Siren[m]> martin03[m]: You know that you can be tax compliant while using monero right?
16:29:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fiat is private, though centralized
16:30:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fiat in infinitely more private than t addresses 
16:30:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is* infinitely
16:30:47 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: i don't know alot of technical stuff about zec 
16:30:47 <martin03[m]> all i know it is a optional privacy coin that somehow pass gov regulations
16:30:47 <martin03[m]> like how do people will enter monero if the fiat gateway were cut (xmr its not even available at my cex)
16:31:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pass gov regulations? 
16:31:14 <RavFX[m]> Even using a CC or debit card is infinitely more private than T address or Bitcoin
16:31:16 <carlae88[m]> i'm looking for an amazon or ebay with crypto ?
16:31:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> ZEC is a shitcoin ICO that should be shut down like xrp
16:31:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not a cash replacement it it has a dev tax 
16:31:42 <carlae88[m]> zash lol
16:31:42 <RavFX[m]> ZEC could have some use if it had enforced privacy and was not broken
16:31:51 <carlae88[m]> out
16:32:13 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: i believe offline transaction with cash is still more private than doing online transaction
16:32:13 <martin03[m]> this is includes monero 
16:32:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> RavFX[m]: And didnt have a dev tax
16:32:21 <RavFX[m]> carlae88[m]: for now you can go on coincards.com and buy amazon and ebay giftcard with monero
16:32:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> In which case == arrr == still broken 
16:32:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Take this to #monero-offtopic:monero.social 
16:33:04 <RavFX[m]> Wait, missunderstood carlae88 , I would also like a ebay like platform usable with Monero
16:33:05 <carlae88[m]> RavFX[m]: thanks
16:33:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nohe of your questions have anything to do with monero. More like "hey, why dont we use ztrash"
16:33:38 <Siren[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> i don't know alot of technical stuff about zec 
16:33:38 <Siren[m]> > all i know it is a optional privacy coin that somehow pass gov regulations
16:33:38 <Siren[m]> > like how do people will enter monero if the fiat gateway were cut (xmr its not even available at my cex)
16:33:38 <Siren[m]> localmonero.co
16:33:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> martin03: *
16:33:51 <Siren[m]> Or buy other crypto and swap for xmr
16:34:08 <carlae88[m]> RavFX[m]: that's it somethink like alphabay but for general use case :)
16:36:07 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, like Ebay (auctions) and Amazon.
16:36:07 <RavFX[m]> We do have a Mercadolibre clone so far but it seam to only have stablescams -> cryptoavisos.com
16:38:43 <carlae88[m]> not in english
16:38:52 <carlae88[m]> but that's the idea
16:38:53 <carlae88[m]> thanks
16:39:19 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, "Mercadolibre clone" include Mercadolibre spanish 😂
16:45:54 <martin03[m]> is Litecoin a dead project? 
16:47:07 <RavFX[m]> martin03[m]: Litecoin is more useful as bitcoin when you're unit of account is Monero
16:47:17 <RavFX[m]> Most site that accept bitcoin accept litecoin, if that site don't accept monero, Then swapping for Litecoin is way faster and also, cheaper, than Bitcoin
16:47:33 <martin03[m]> i feel like Litecoin is the most useless coin ever 
16:47:33 <martin03[m]> i felt like bitcoin can be made more efficient than increasing blocksize 
16:47:33 <martin03[m]> via segwit or taproot or any other technical stuff i don't really understand
16:48:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're insane 
16:48:06 <martin03[m]> while Litecoin just increase the blocksize to well 4x which not pretty significant 
16:48:06 <martin03[m]> unlike bitcoin cash & ripple , hell they were instant unlike litecoin 
16:48:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Litecoin is fsr, far, far more useful than btc ot bch
16:48:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Even if its only use is on/off ramping to xmr
16:48:52 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: why prefer litecoin over bitcoin cash tbh? 
16:49:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bch is 10min block, sane mining algo as btc, hashrate moves to and from bch from btc and blocks go over an hour sometimes 
16:49:13 <martin03[m]> bitcoin cash is instant right? 
16:49:13 <martin03[m]> while litecoin you need to wait for confirmation
16:49:22 <RavFX[m]> BCH and other shit work to, instead of litecoin.
16:49:22 <RavFX[m]> But literally most site that accept bitcoin accept litecoin. Then for other coin it's quite variable. It's why Litecoin seam to be the most usedull shitcoin
16:49:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Litecoin, you dont have that problem. Mining is decentralised.
16:49:52 <RavFX[m]> s/usedull/usefull/
16:50:02 <Siren[m]> I like it when XMR is an option and the site owner does you a discount because no taxes
16:50:40 <Siren[m]> and then you pay what you saved up to customs tax :D
16:51:09 <RavFX[m]> Always use normal post / EMS!
16:51:23 <RavFX[m]> states owned post too lazy to check them all!
16:54:48 <martin03[m]> so why pick litecoin over bitcoin cash 
16:54:48 <martin03[m]> 1. it takes only 2 minutes 
16:54:48 <martin03[m]> 2. people will likely have litecoin than bitcoin cash 
16:54:48 <martin03[m]> 3. the name is much cooler?
16:56:33 <martin03[m]> does monero have legacy address or monero address is always the same?
16:58:11 <nioc> I prefer the Zimbabwean dollar because NGU
16:59:17 <RavFX[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> so why pick litecoin over bitcoin cash... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/f895bba2a4408d86fc8a77ffde6677edab4a9c81>)
16:59:30 <RavFX[m]> don't forget I only use litecoin for site that dont accept monero
18:03:10 <fr33_yourself[m]> <still_stuck[m]> "everything that people need to..." <- Truth
18:03:56 <monerobull[m]1> I'm in need of help. I've set everything up to use ContextMod but I'm not good at figuring out how to properly configure it. If anyone thinks they could write a decent config, please dm me : https://github.com/FoxxMD/context-mod
18:04:17 <fr33_yourself[m]> <Siren[m]> "Securing phones is such a..." <- Nearly impossible to have privacy on a smartphone
18:04:23 <monerobull[m]1> monerobull[m]1: We're trying to fight the bot problem in the monero subreddit 
18:05:18 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: I only use mine for 2FA.
18:05:18 <RavFX[m]> I hate using phone for browsing the net.
18:05:49 <Siren[m]> I have a bunch of yubico keys laying around for 2FA but am lazy to configure them
18:06:22 <RavFX[m]> I use the ledger for 2fa (work for mose site compatible with yubi stuff)
18:06:29 <RavFX[m]> s/mose/most/
18:06:29 <Siren[m]> for know it's keepassxc for 2fa
18:06:31 <fr33_yourself[m]> <martin03[m]> "why zec aren't accepted more..." <- Because it is not a real privacy  coin. Trusted setup and the founder has set that Zcash can comply with government investigations. Has suffered from inflation bugs etc etc
18:06:35 <Siren[m]> s/know/now/
18:06:40 <RavFX[m]> But most site don't accept theses keys, yet
18:06:46 <fr33_yourself[m]> <RavFX[m]> "Optional privacy is bad" <- Yep
18:06:56 <fr33_yourself[m]> Even with full privacy would still be a failed project
18:07:01 <RavFX[m]> keepassxc is great as a password manager, it's what I use too, but i'm not using it for 2fa
18:07:34 <monerobull[m]1> Silbert got his net worth downgraded by forbs from 3 billion to 0$. If he goes bust, ZCash is dead too
18:08:04 <fr33_yourself[m]> <martin03[m]> "but it still better right than..." <- Disagree. At least bitcoin is usable
18:08:06 <monerobull[m]1> s/forbs/forbes/
18:08:08 <fr33_yourself[m]> and POW
18:08:11 <monerobull[m]1> https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnhyatt/2022/12/24/these-crypto-founders-and-bitcoin-moguls-lost-116-billion-in-2022/
18:08:16 <fr33_yourself[m]> and more widely accepted
18:08:48 <RavFX[m]> Bitcoin is usable** most of the time.
18:08:48 <RavFX[m]> I have waiting half a day for a confirmation (Did append to me more than one time)
18:08:58 <RavFX[m]> s/**/\*\*/, s/have/hate/
18:09:19 <fr33_yourself[m]> <RavFX[m]> "It's been spammed to oblivion..." <- True, but something similar could also happen to Monero. It would take greater planning and more ammunition though
18:09:50 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: True, but the variable block size stuff should alleviate the pain.
18:10:14 <fr33_yourself[m]> <Siren[m]> "You know that you can be tax..." <- Largely Self-defeating behavior, unless you voluntarily enjoy paying
18:10:25 <RavFX[m]> and if there is too much TX piled up, a miner will eventually mine all in one block even if it get a penalty (if the fee compensate)
18:11:01 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: You don't have a choice if you're a company and you would like to accept Monero. Somebody has to do the accounting.
18:11:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> i don't know alot of technical stuff about zec... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/080bd732f6ea8f20a89aea276211ce0df2a9d96b>)
18:12:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> <RavFX[m]> "Even using a CC or debit card is..." <- I disagree. If you acquire bitcoin with cash it should be more private than using a credit or debit card.
18:13:44 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "ZEC is a shitcoin ICO that..." <- disagree. The government shouldn't exist, so no central entity should shut down ZEC. Rather the market should determine its fate.
18:14:01 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: Everything you transact with BTC stay in the ledger, publicly accessible, anyone can see, anyone can feed the data into there neural network. It's "anonymous" until you make a mistake
18:14:01 <RavFX[m]> Unlike the bank stuff on where the states can have accounting detail if they have a mandate or something. But the general public won't ever have access
18:15:06 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: Well governments exist and it's the reality we live in.
18:15:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> i believe offline transaction with cash is still more private than doing online transaction
18:15:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> > 
18:15:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> > this is includes monero
18:15:21 <fr33_yourself[m]> This is true. However, holding physical cash will likely be a losing play over the rest of this decade due to money supply expansion outpacing Monero's tail emission.
18:15:29 <RavFX[m]> If only acquiring, if you use cash or something like that, it should stay private, indeed.
18:15:29 <RavFX[m]> It stop being private once you start spending and producing behavioral pattern on the blockchain
18:16:22 <fr33_yourself[m]> <carlae88[m]> "that's it somethink like..." <- moneromarket.io
18:17:15 <RavFX[m]> I did see moneromarket.io.
18:17:15 <RavFX[m]> Did not buy on there yet, not enough products yet
18:17:37 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Litecoin is fsr, far, far more..." <- Could you elaborate on why you think Litecoin is superior when compared to Bitcoin Cash?
18:17:47 <Siren[m]> I wanted to buy candles but the shipping costed more than the thing itself
18:18:02 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: It's more widely accepted.
18:18:02 <RavFX[m]> so you use litecoin where you can't use monero
18:18:45 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: The wax one? I was also thinking about buying some but seam reason I did not buy
18:18:53 <RavFX[m]> s/seam/same/
18:21:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> <Siren[m]> "You don't have a choice if you'..." <- Give me an example. If you are referring to large publicly traded companies I think you are correct. However for free-lancers and small businesses you are likely subject to far less scrutiny and surveillance.
18:22:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Everything you transact with BTC stay in the ledger, publicly accessible, anyone can see, anyone can feed the data into there neural network. It's "anonymous" until you make a mistake
18:22:03 <fr33_yourself[m]> > 
18:22:04 <fr33_yourself[m]> > Unlike the bank stuff on where the states can have accounting detail if they have a mandate or something. But the general public won't ever have access
18:22:04 <fr33_yourself[m]> You don't think all federal agencies have access to all credit and debit card spends and can sift through all said data as they see fit?
18:22:46 <fr33_yourself[m]> <Siren[m]> "Well governments exist and it'..." <- So you think the government serves you well and you'd like to finacially contribute to its persistence?
18:22:53 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: It doesn't matter whether if you're a large publicly traded company or not. You will get audited once in a while and it's not worth getting caught.
18:23:33 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> If only acquiring, if you use cash or something like that, it should stay private, indeed.
18:23:33 <fr33_yourself[m]> > 
18:23:33 <fr33_yourself[m]> > It stop being private once you start spending and producing behavioral pattern on the blockchain
18:23:33 <fr33_yourself[m]> This is true. I'd say this is still more private than the big three credit card companies selling your data to agencies of all sorts
18:23:49 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: I did not say that? But yeah zcash doesn't even work, it's shit.
18:24:59 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: As they have for the corn blockchain...
18:24:59 <RavFX[m]> only difference is that the corn blockchain, it's all agencies from all countries who have access to it.
18:25:17 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: What if you don't use a bank account or are unbanked? What can the IRS know? What is their procedure here? If you don't own real estate and don't have money in a bank account it's much harder for them to touch you.
18:25:41 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: You're not allowed to register a company without a bank account and a capital contibution. You're out of the loop.
18:26:10 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: I don't disagree. That's why the market will determine its fate. It's price will go down over time against other goods, services, and currencies.
18:26:38 <RavFX[m]> Can you live without a bank account in the US still?
18:26:38 <RavFX[m]> Personally, I am unbanked since about a decade but I live in LATAM, where cash is still the king
18:26:52 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: Why register? Why tell the government anything? Or is it not possible to operate a business without registering where you live?
18:27:26 <RavFX[m]> I guess you don't have to register if you just do shit online...
18:27:26 <RavFX[m]> Offline stuff might be harder depending where you live and local regulation
18:28:14 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Can you live without a bank account in the US still?
18:28:14 <fr33_yourself[m]> > Personally, I am unbanked since about a decade but I live in LATAM, where cash is still the king
18:28:14 <fr33_yourself[m]> I advocate for leaving the states and positioning oneself as you have. Move to where a large percentage of the population are unbanked and it is a cash economy. The government is broke, unsophisticated, lazy, and weak.
18:29:08 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: If you are openly selling services online, making some profit and employing people sooner of later the green men will knock on your door or give you a call.
18:30:26 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: Even if this happens, how do they know your business's numbers? If you don't hold any money in a bank account and don't own any real estate, what can they seize? Your car? 
18:30:36 <RavFX[m]> * operate only on tor.
18:30:37 <RavFX[m]> * talk to employee using some IM that don't leave track to you
18:30:37 <RavFX[m]> * pay employee with XMR
18:31:06 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: You don't get a business number if you're not registered. They will literally imprison you.
18:31:08 <RavFX[m]> Like I said, way easier to operate online than offline on where you have to interact with local normies
18:31:35 <Siren[m]> You can still pay your contractors with XMR as a registered business
18:32:11 <Siren[m]> Also it's always an option to move to a 0% corporate tax country however it's kinda hard and expensive thing to maintain
18:32:25 <RavFX[m]> Yes, you can.
18:32:25 <RavFX[m]> But good luck if you have a local offline business and are not registered
18:33:10 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: So worst case you go to jail if you attempt to operate a business completely under the radar and they just stick you in jail for some period of time. Then you either have to pay to get out or wait and get out again to start making some money.
18:33:52 <Siren[m]> yeah and I would like to not have that happen
18:33:54 <Siren[m]> I don't even need to pay any corporate tax for the time being
18:34:13 <fr33_yourself[m]> RavFX[m]: You think it's easier to operate in the dark online than locally, because they slave-minds in your local area will tattle on you or spill beans on your operation?
18:34:31 <Siren[m]> locals won't snitch
18:34:43 <Siren[m]> inspections though
18:35:25 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: I advocate something along these lines. Just get away from the feds. The odd policeman you see in public isn't your worry. It's the surveillance agencies that are problematic for trying to survive and build wealth in the United States.
18:36:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Yes, you can.
18:36:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> > But good luck if you have a local offline business and are not registered
18:36:01 <fr33_yourself[m]> You think it's only a matter of time before being arrested in this case?
18:36:08 <Siren[m]> depends
18:36:18 <Siren[m]> if you are grandma selling berries at the local market
18:36:21 <Siren[m]> probably no
18:36:40 <Siren[m]> but if you sell sausages and have a meat stand, they might jail you when they inspect you for food safety :D
18:36:55 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: Yeah I guess. That's why operating out of a brick and mortar store/office is a point of failure because police on patrol may start to ask questions at some stage.
18:37:33 <RavFX[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: Depend where you are located and the business.
18:37:33 <RavFX[m]> But if you have an offline business, you have a physical location tied to you.
18:37:34 <RavFX[m]> If you operate online you won't have that if you are careful. But still I would not do illegal operation online as it could be a reason for "them" to spend ressources and time to find you
18:39:22 <fr33_yourself[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Depend where you are located and the business.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/5577ca5dc27d9d00f23a969ea82279cb42ef7071>)
18:41:44 <Siren[m]> <fr33_yourself[m]> "I advocate something along these..." <- I can't even build and sell vending machines
18:41:51 <Siren[m]> without getting state approval
18:41:55 <Siren[m]> it's that ridicilous
18:42:07 <Siren[m]> just because the machine has a cash acceptor
18:43:56 <fr33_yourself[m]> You actually build vending machines?
18:44:08 <fr33_yourself[m]> Yeah the US is pretty fucked
18:44:18 <fr33_yourself[m]> I'd recommend getting out of dodge if you can
18:44:34 <Siren[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: I have a software company and we wanted to experiment with that, ordered parts and got told fuck off
18:44:41 <fr33_yourself[m]> Shit's not gonna be pretty as the state tightens its grip
18:45:08 <Siren[m]> I don't live in US and the company isn't based there either
18:45:16 <Siren[m]> it's EU :,)
18:45:43 <Siren[m]> they gonna regulate the way I breathe next
18:46:45 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: still doing it but not under the company name
18:46:57 <Siren[m]> won't sell it whole but maybe in form of a kit
18:48:40 <Siren[m]> also have to write down that it's for educational purposes and probably need to add a prompt "Don't launder money with this, ok? (y/n)"
18:48:41 <fr33_yourself[m]> Siren[m]: That's a really good idea in my opinion. Makes it harder to trace back to you and shut down your operation
18:49:07 <Siren[m]> eh I'm not operating it
18:49:08 <Siren[m]> people will build their own
18:49:32 <fr33_yourself[m]> I know 
18:49:36 <Siren[m]> I have nothing to do with it other than showing people how to assemble
18:49:41 <fr33_yourself[m]> I'm saying by outsourcing the actual construction and installation you are lowering your attack surface
18:49:45 <fr33_yourself[m]> to fed bois
21:34:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> <fr33_yourself[m]> "True, but something similar..." <- Not true. Zcash _wallets_ cant keep up with scanning the blockchain if there is heavy z address usage.
21:34:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero wallets dont have such problem 
21:36:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> The blocks, iirc, weren't even full, yet crippled zcash wallets for weeks/months
23:02:39 <Inge> sounds like april 2017 or so?
23:34:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, like October 2022
23:34:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or Sept or something 
23:36:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> The vast majority of Zcash users are unaffected by the increased size of the blockchain, but users of shielded wallets are reporting slower than normal sync times due to a high volume of transactions with a high number of outputs. While Zcash is functioning as designed, the ECC engineering team is focused on improving performance,” the statement read.
23:37:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1577718171468972033
23:37:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> “At this point, there only seems to be two problems with the spam: it's bloating the chain size, and it's making it harder for wallets to sync,” Sean Bowe, an engineer at Zcash's core development firm Electric Coin Company said.
23:38:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> “It's sad to see. There was always a risk of DoS given Zcash’s deliberate lack of a fee market,” security researcher Ian Miers, who has previously worked at Zcash, noted in a tweet Wednesday. “The proofs are much larger and slower to verify, making the attack worse.”
23:38:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/is-chain-spam-the-wrong-conclusion/42612
23:43:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> "According to Ziggurat stats, there are less than 100 full nodes and certainly even fewer lightwalletd."
23:46:13 <nioc> "functioning as designed"
23:46:22 <nioc> how was it designed?
23:46:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> To not work, and to pay the devs a lot of the fees that go into the blocks 
23:47:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> One block was like 180k in fees. Not sure if block explorers were reporting incorrectly.. but it seemed to be correct
23:48:17 <nioc> how can it be low fees with no fee market and 180k in fees at the same time
23:48:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can override fees somehow
23:49:14 <nioc> I pay no attention to garbage so I haven't been following  :)
23:49:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont use zec so I cant tell you the details. The default fee is 0.0001 or something, but can be changed
23:49:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> My thoughts exactly haha
23:50:07 <nioc> there is some entity that uses morenero constantly that uses a huge fee 
23:50:37 <nioc> seems to be custom and not a default higher fee
23:53:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://zcashblockexplorer.com/transactions/8466a4cb802705d383b844101630a5af11284e9985c3df89e5e5fe8357751990
23:54:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> nioc: Mymonero doubles the fee levels iirc
23:55:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> iirc this tx was right before the flood started 
23:57:26 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (140KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/SRxkAPuPuAxcFbsKtWGxaMuT/z47a1zub4ezzgo1s.jpg >
23:58:22 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (136KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/eYQUJepfKVoTAlSgRMpeilOb/1fd2pye90pxjhv09.jpg >