08:45:47 <user23434[m]> Hello
08:46:28 <user23434[m]> I have a question
09:54:30 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Me too
10:00:57 <sech1> The question is what is the question
11:07:06 <msvb-lab> I want to ask a question to find out what questions are being asked.
11:45:12 <jozsef[m]> The question is whether to question or not to question.
11:53:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sir, I need to know.
11:57:15 <DanIsnotthemanBr> A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
11:59:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive learned that I like 23 better then 24 and 25
11:59:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Than*
12:08:39 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Better to have shamir unseal keys and spread them around the world.
12:12:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sir, I can use ledger for shamir unsealed keys? Please read carefully
14:31:19 <martin03[m]> is calyxos ok if i want to be completely a degoogled phone 
14:31:19 <martin03[m]> (no need for microg or sandbox gservices)? 
14:43:49 <jozsef[m]> I use calyx. Without g-services. I'm okay with it. But you give up on certain things, e.g., not all apps' push notifications work. E.g., element works, but not K9 (for gmail) or protonmail. Seth has a good guide, but seems to be offline, so here is the one from archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20220817232010/https://sethforprivacy.com/guides/installing-calyxos-linux/
14:45:37 <jozsef[m]> martin03
15:06:14 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Or
15:06:14 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://divestos.org/
15:06:14 <DanIsnotthemanBr> But gos is best
15:44:48 <martin03[m]> <jozsef[m]> "I use calyx. Without g-services...." <- im ok with this , this is only for my secondary phone
15:47:26 <RavFX[m]> There that micro-g thing (g-services shim) that allow more apps to work without using google blob, it's what I use
15:49:22 <martin03[m]> is investing in precious white metal better than bitcoin?
15:49:22 <martin03[m]> i want to invest in rhodium , 1oz of it cost 12k
15:49:22 <martin03[m]> while there is only 644,000 oz of it in the world
15:50:54 <martin03[m]> RavFX[m]: all my app work fine without microg 
15:50:55 <martin03[m]> i only use my secondary phone for open a browser and a messenger
15:59:38 * martin03[m] uploaded an image: (5KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/gdhuBtWpxEyabrOPSrGWqGRq/rh1825lns.gif >
16:02:17 <martin03[m]> i love precious metal over bitcoin , is just safer :) 
16:02:17 <martin03[m]> bitcoin isn't that bad either for store of value
16:03:20 <Siren[m]> <jozsef[m]> "I use calyx. Without g-services...." <- Element works because it supports [UnifiedPush](https://unifiedpush.org/). You can use [fairmail](https://email.faircode.eu/).
16:03:53 <Siren[m]> https://github.com/thundernest/k-9/issues/5165
16:04:04 <Siren[m]> I also like K9
16:13:08 <RavFX[m]> Is fairmail still developped? I did hear it was going to be axed because of google fud
16:13:31 <RavFX[m]> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31432334
16:15:25 <Siren[m]> FairEmail (Fully featured email client. Neat, intuitive user interface. Privacy friendly)
16:15:26 <Siren[m]> https://f-droid.org/packages/eu.faircode.email/
16:15:29 <Siren[m]> Last updated today
16:17:40 <Stnby[m]> I love FairEmail
16:18:31 <Stnby[m]> I have Graphene OS on my Pixel 9 Pro, but would never recommend this device to anyone :D
16:18:31 <Stnby[m]> Buggy af
16:19:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ever try fluffychat?
16:19:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> (For matrix)
16:19:52 <Stnby[m]> Horrible
16:20:46 <Siren[m]> I broke fluffychat within 15 mins from the time I installed it by trying to share my session key lol
16:25:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Similar experience. Got it to work eventually but have been unable to receive messages unless I open the app, forcing a manual refresh
16:26:40 <still_stuck[m]> Stnby: know any _good_ device for Graphene OS?
16:27:49 <Stnby[m]> Not sure, pixel 9 pro is my first and last Google device
16:27:58 <Stnby[m]> The google support was horrifying
16:28:32 <Stnby[m]> They said to factory reset the device to fix black screen of death, which also did not work out, Graphene is a little bit more stable than stock tho
16:28:40 <RavFX[m]> It's because of the "Google required" push notification?
16:29:08 <Siren[m]> Nope worse
16:29:32 <Siren[m]> The phone screen goes black randomly and won't go away without a reboot
16:29:52 <RavFX[m]> Even signal is more annoying to use without micro-g
16:29:52 <RavFX[m]> Like you have to open it to see the new messages, than you receive 25 of them because you did not open it in 2 days
16:30:01 <Stnby[m]> Signal is cancer
16:30:14 <Stnby[m]> People keep thinking its some private ass bullshit
16:31:00 <Stnby[m]> Use matrix, tox or session. There are no other options for private messaging
16:32:11 <chesterfield[m]> People use it because it’s easy to onboard normies
16:32:12 <chesterfield[m]> Imagine onboarding your mom to tox
16:32:13 <Stnby[m]> whatsapp == signal == telegram
16:32:17 <Siren[m]> chesterfield[m]: I succesfully did to element
16:32:44 <Stnby[m]> why bother unboarding your mom to yet another phone number activated proprietary service (uses proprietary libs)
16:33:08 <Stnby[m]> s/unboarding/onboarding/
16:33:13 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: Converted my workplace and friends too :D 
16:33:16 <Stnby[m]> Element is user friendly enough for a grandma
16:35:21 <midipoet> is r/monerojobs the main XMR jobs market, as it seems pretty dead?
16:35:33 <monerobull[m]1> Stnby[m]: Until it doesnt
16:36:08 <Stnby[m]> Signal and whatsapp is also pain in the ass to use for a grandma
16:36:37 <Stnby[m]> probably even bigger pain because you have to backup stuff and no useable pc client
16:37:39 <monerobull[m]1> Can you lose your encryption keys in signal like with matrix?
16:38:04 <Siren[m]> Yes
16:38:10 <Siren[m]> You can lose your signal keys
16:38:13 <monerobull[m]1> Ah ok
16:38:53 <Siren[m]> It's even worse if you want to use same signal account on multiple devices
16:38:58 <Siren[m]> Doesn't even work
16:39:01 <monerobull[m]1> Eww
16:39:20 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: Or if you need to switch to a new phone
16:39:37 <Siren[m]> Notifications go through google's servers
16:39:51 <RavFX[m]> Signal fine for famillia (especially when they already all use whatsapp) as then contact will auto-populate so no work needed really compared to onboarding them on matrix.
16:39:51 <RavFX[m]> And if I where to onboard them on something that un-user friendly I ratter user XMPP for one to one conversations.
16:40:23 <Stnby[m]> Use Tox giga chad
16:40:29 <Stnby[m]> Terminal client
16:41:09 <RavFX[m]> monerobull[m]1: Yes, if you change phone and don't use the backup function
16:42:26 <Stnby[m]> Anyone remember early days of riot.im?
16:42:32 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: That work just fine if you cheat and use something like titanium backup.
16:42:32 <RavFX[m]> But yeah, one phone, many PC. 
16:42:35 <Siren[m]> Ah yes
16:42:36 <RavFX[m]> but do you need it on more than one phone?
16:42:49 <Stnby[m]> 🔥 💣️
16:43:01 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: We were like fuck this shit, let's migrate to telegram
16:43:06 <Siren[m]> 💀
16:43:51 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: That work just fine
16:43:56 <RavFX[m]> Use backup function, put the two phone side by side, follow instructions
16:44:04 <Siren[m]> No, I managed to bork that too
16:44:11 <Stnby[m]> Many people change phones when they die
16:44:12 <RavFX[m]> Stnby[m]: noit going to onboard familia on Tox, they gonna lose there key constantly and forget who I am or something
16:44:14 <Siren[m]> RavFX[m]: It scans bluetooth or AP
16:44:29 <Siren[m]> If you go back and then retry it indefintely fails to find devices
16:44:54 <Siren[m]> s/indefintely/forever/
16:45:20 <Stnby[m]> RavFX[m]: You are 494ca803103bfe1a5bf7434e15d4a9d34dbe64e29c88b598119deb1f043721430163ddbde76c898c600f6a6c93e58f04cf7fde4625f2e4eff88e4fcbcf78bac9, easy to remember...
16:46:08 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: I wanted to debug what it is actually scanning for and if I can sniff anything
16:46:11 <Siren[m]> Ended up breaking the app
16:47:55 <RavFX[m]> Thing is, to get rid of all social scams, I got to move fast.
16:47:55 <RavFX[m]> So I got signal and left familia / normies friends one week notice before deletion of all social scams.
16:48:07 <RavFX[m]> And surprisly most of them got signal, I'm sure I would have got a lower swap ratio using Matrix (as my experience on Matrix, it's my third account because the first home service vanished, the second did down sometime and when it do it's for more than a day...)
16:48:24 <Stnby[m]> It was easier for me, just delete it with all of the friends
16:49:40 <RavFX[m]> <Siren[m]> "It scans bluetooth or AP" <- It use some auto wifi thing, so you have to leave wifi on but disconnect / forget all network
16:49:50 <RavFX[m]> I did it two time so far.
16:49:50 <RavFX[m]> You can also backup you'se whole signal shit and import it on youre new phone
16:50:41 <Stnby[m]> Isn't it just like in whatsapp
16:50:53 <RavFX[m]> it have option for that, to save all stuff on a sdcard
16:52:02 <RavFX[m]> Stnby[m]: whatsapp is closed source and owned by meta.
16:52:03 <RavFX[m]> Meta do collect metadata
16:52:19 <RavFX[m]> the protocol is the same but no one know what Meta did to it
16:52:34 <Siren[m]> Aren't newer versions of signal client also proprietary?
16:52:41 <Stnby[m]> But Signal also collects metadata
16:52:45 <RavFX[m]> <Siren[m]> "Ended up breaking the app" <- Try harder 😂
16:54:26 <RavFX[m]> So far signal supposedly have only date of subscription, data of last connection (I think) and phone number.
16:55:28 <Stnby[m]> And the best part is that it uses google firebase for notifications
16:55:38 <Stnby[m]> and central server where they collect anything they want
16:55:43 <Stnby[m]> phone number == kyc
16:56:32 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android
16:56:33 <RavFX[m]> For a while in the past they delayed release of source code, I think it was related to the mobilecoin scam (like they did not want people know they where implementing that until release or something like that)
16:56:47 <Stnby[m]> RavFX[m]: Telegram is also "Open Source"
16:56:52 <Stnby[m]> Both use proprietary libs
16:56:55 <Stnby[m]> does not matter
16:57:07 <Siren[m]> RavFX[m]: I don't believe anything after seeing what some companies pass as no-logging policy etc
16:57:38 <Stnby[m]> Signal in no way needs your phone number to function its all a honeypot
16:58:04 <RavFX[m]> Stnby[m]: sim cost 2$ from random convenient store
16:58:04 <RavFX[m]> no ID needed.
16:58:04 <RavFX[m]> IF phone number == kyc, move to a free country
16:58:31 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: Yeah, assume they all spy on you, it's why I use Signal only for familia and normies friends lol
16:58:44 <Stnby[m]> you need a 20 Eur phone bunch of cash to leave to a remote village plug the phone in actibvate
16:58:49 <Stnby[m]> and then burn the phone
16:59:08 <Stnby[m]> s/actibvate/activate/
16:59:48 <Stnby[m]> also you have to buy phone from some random dude on <insert craigslist alternative> with cash
16:59:59 <Siren[m]> Confiscated goods shop
17:00:40 <Stnby[m]> And then when you switch to a new device you have to go buy another sim and another phone :D
17:01:03 <Stnby[m]> * another phone to activate it :D
17:01:25 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: Or flash new IMEI lol https://kernal.eu/posts/restoring-imei/
17:01:32 <Siren[m]> Totally legal 100%
17:02:35 <RavFX[m]> The question would be, what's the best normies friends/familia compatible program to use.
17:02:35 <RavFX[m]> Can't be something complicated or you are going to lose half of them or more
17:02:54 <Stnby[m]> email
17:02:55 <RavFX[m]> Especially that you are asking them to all install another application on there phones
17:03:16 <Siren[m]> I think element nowadays is easy enough, more elegant than signal/whatsapp
17:03:20 <RavFX[m]> Stnby[m]: Why not use the backup feature?
17:03:40 <Stnby[m]> you won't have the sim card by then
17:03:48 <RavFX[m]> IMEI work yeah, not for all phones but doable
17:04:18 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: One issue is that across ios, android and fdroid releases the language options are inconsistent
17:04:29 <RavFX[m]> Stnby[m]: Try having a video chat face to face with email
17:04:38 <Siren[m]> ios version is missing a few languages for some reason
17:04:44 <Siren[m]> Jitsi :D
17:04:44 <Stnby[m]> RavFX[m]: hold my beer, nothing is better than Jitsi
17:04:48 <Stnby[m]> no account needed :D
17:05:00 <Stnby[m]> No app, no account
17:05:03 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: If you use matrix.com homeserver.
17:05:03 <RavFX[m]> I think it ask for SMS verification, right?
17:05:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> I just dont talk to people 
17:05:22 <Siren[m]> No clue
17:05:25 <RavFX[m]> like I said earlier, I went thru 3 homeserver before, imajin if the same think append to you're familia, they will abandon and delete the app lol
17:05:37 <Siren[m]> I created everyone accounts on my own homeserver
17:05:47 <RavFX[m]> Stnby[m]: Yep, I plan to make a server eventually for that thing
17:06:12 <RavFX[m]> s/think/thing/
17:07:53 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: That work.
17:07:53 <Siren[m]> Dendrite
17:07:53 <RavFX[m]> That require you to maintain a homeserver forever
17:07:53 <RavFX[m]> is there something better that this unoptimized piece of heavyness that is synapse?
17:08:18 <Siren[m]> I also thought synapse was very heavy but it surprisingly isn't that resource hungry
17:09:05 <Stnby[m]> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> That work.
17:09:05 <Stnby[m]> > That require you to maintain a homeserver forever
17:09:05 <Stnby[m]> > is there something better that this unoptimized piece of heavyness that is synapse?
17:09:05 <Stnby[m]> matrix.org instance or a bunch of other ones from various communities works fine
17:09:07 <Stnby[m]> At worst use ours XDD
17:09:59 <RavFX[m]> Gonna have a dedicated server or something. Or disable the federation stuff so you're familia won't begin to enjoy Matrix from you're homeserver and join other big channel
17:10:05 <RavFX[m]> Siren[m]: Will take a look at it, thanks
17:10:07 <Stnby[m]> Still cheaper to host than a telegram crypto scam, discord nitro or selling yourself to Meta and google
17:10:22 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: I wanted to send a screenshot of our grafana dashboard but it's broken wonder who broke it >:(
17:11:03 <RavFX[m]> Stnby[m]: matrix.org need phone number SMS verification right.
17:11:03 <RavFX[m]> I remember having tried matrix.org homeserver in the past and abandonned, I don't remember the exact reason
17:13:43 <jozsef[m]> I do not think matrix.org needs phone number for anything. It is only an option. Email works too.
17:17:30 <martin03[m]> 2018 is half a decade ago 
17:31:04 * Stnby[m] uploaded an image: (471KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/NrzMGNuLmnTBuTpPqnsDFQZP/image.png >
17:31:04 <Stnby[m]> Fancy dashboards
17:34:19 * Siren[m] uploaded an image: (9KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/YZgpqdMeoTDzBNbmeVHbiwAu/image.png >
17:34:20 <Siren[m]> very fancy indeed
17:34:33 <Siren[m]> I used to have an alert set there 
17:34:39 <Siren[m]> someone deleted it
17:35:52 * Stnby[m] uploaded an image: (166KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/hTmPUsDZPPJfvbFuOcMGhVpp/image.png >
17:35:56 <Stnby[m]> More sexy dashboards
17:36:26 <Siren[m]> 4 euro matrix server
17:37:20 <Stnby[m]> + whatever it costs for an extra mounted volume with all of the data probably another 4 Eur
17:37:27 <Stnby[m]> s/+/plus/
18:02:55 <Siren[m]> signal is lame, all my homies use kchat over tor to chat
18:02:55 <Siren[m]> `torsocks nc cumshitudpemjs4exlopowrjlxj4gw7z3tvelx3wxkbqyihxkulyvpid.onion 1337`
18:05:05 <Siren[m]> for better experience: `rlwrap -S "> " torsocks nc cumshitudpemjs4exlopowrjlxj4gw7z3tvelx3wxkbqyihxkulyvpid.onion 1337`
19:45:38 <renum[m]> Hi guys, I was trying to download latest Monero CLI wallet from getmoner.org downloads page, but got this certificate warning:
19:45:39 * renum[m] uploaded an image: (26KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/wyZZVnblVZqpoYRcKElZjare/image.png >
19:45:42 <renum[m]> Can anyone else verify it, or is just my PC?
19:46:58 <renum[m]> sorry, meant to type getmonero.org, not without "o", but on my browser the address is correct
19:47:30 <renum[m]> s/getmoner/getmonero/
19:48:14 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (120KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/TgQqGuOzTgUrzSiAtINnDRGe/ynm2461evm3ewl8j.jpg >
19:48:52 <renum[m]> I was using Firefox, let me check with Edge.
19:49:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, or perhaps check your system clock 
19:51:15 <renum[m]> Okay, now working on Firefox too.. That was strange
20:02:40 <xmrscott[m]> Yeah, likely something local. Site has a clean bill of healthy for cert
20:02:49 * xmrscott[m] posted a file: (200KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/WOTsqIfLzICBcStFJBKfwAlv/image.png >
20:02:56 <xmrscott[m]> s/healthy/health/
20:29:23 <renum[m]> Thanks for confirming, figured it's always best to check with the experts here
20:30:35 <renum[m]> I think was F-secure Antivirus progrma, it was blocking the file when Edge was used. However, no visible popup emerged with Firefox
20:31:13 <renum[m]>  * I think was F-secure Antivirus program, because it blocked the file when Edge was used. However, no visible popup emerged with Firefox (before trying with Edge)
20:34:03 <renum[m]>  * I think was F-secure Antivirus program, because it blocked the file when Edge was used. However, no visible popup emerged with Firefox (before trying with Edge). I then whitelisted the downloads.getmonero.org site
20:34:44 <renum[m]>  * I think was F-secure Antivirus program, because it blocked the file when Edge was used. However, no visible popup emerged before that with Firefox. I whitelisted the downloads.getmonero.org site when I got the notification with Edge, and then it worked with Firefox too.
22:12:11 <still_stuck[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "I just dont talk to people..." <- this. communicating just keeps things spinning. isolate people and let them feel their fear of missing out. i am legit not fucking with u ppl, its the best thing u can do for them
22:13:52 <still_stuck[m]> also, the best thing you can do for yourself.
22:14:20 <still_stuck[m]> * spinning. isolate (( from )) people and
23:15:11 -xmr-pr- [meta] Rucknium opened issue #776: Monero Research Lab Meeting - Wed 04 January 2023, 17:00 UTC
23:15:11 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/776
23:18:57 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://www.securemessagingapps.com/