05:47:21 <plowsof11> matrix dot org was offline for several hours. welcome back everyone!
05:52:53 <DanIsnotthemanBr> centralized 
06:00:39 <Mumuks> <plowsof11> "matrix dot org was offline for..." <- I did not even notice, you really should get off matrix.org
06:12:03 <plowsof11> "but it just works and is always online" 
06:16:00 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 99% uptime :/
14:34:02 <Stnby[m]> <DanIsnotthemanBr> "99% uptime :/" <-  Very bad that a few days of complete darkness a year 
17:21:19 <Stnby[m]> <twisted_turtle[m> "monerokon2 poster.png" <- You can get killed in certain parts of Europe for opening this in public transportation.
17:21:34 <Stnby[m]> You almost killed me today for example during my commuting
17:22:08 <Siren[m]> that's the cringiest shit ever lmfao
17:23:27 <Stnby[m]> Open it next to some 2.2 meter height dude
17:23:43 <Siren[m]> 👁️
17:24:26 <cryptogrampy[m]> Then proceed to explain monero vs btc, monerochan ??? profit
17:25:20 <Stnby[m]> No just dont post this on monero community
17:25:24 <cryptogrampy[m]> If you're not carrying monerochan stickers to sell to random strangers on the bus, you're ngmi
17:25:32 <Stnby[m]> I like to read chats when I drive on a train
17:25:44 <Stnby[m]> But this can get you killed
17:25:54 <Siren[m]> dude lives in afghanistan
17:25:55 <Siren[m]> please
17:26:08 <cryptogrampy[m]> Wen #monero-coomerunity 
17:26:29 <Stnby[m]> I think there already is monero aet fund chat with porn
17:26:32 <Stnby[m]> Just for you
17:26:51 <Stnby[m]> s/aet/art/
17:27:25 <monerobull[m]1> Stnby[m]: "oh this guy looking at these hentais, weirdo" steps off the train
17:27:26 <monerobull[m]1> Oh no you certainly almost died 
17:27:51 <monerobull[m]1> CAN YOU STOP TRYING TO CENSOR MONEROCHAN IN EVERY GOD-DAMNED CHATROOM
17:27:55 <Siren[m]> no
17:27:58 <Siren[m]> touch grass
17:28:03 <monerobull[m]1> You already got her kicked out of Monerokon, fine
17:28:40 <monerobull[m]1> She's a big part of the monero community and this is the monero community room
17:28:40 <Siren[m]> bro then don't post her without a bra and protect her dignity wtf
17:28:43 <monerobull[m]1> By having it be a monerokon poster it's also more than just some art thing, it's literally advertising a monero community event
17:28:50 <Stnby[m]> Monerochan is worst thing about Monero
17:29:08 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: she clearly has DD milkers and erect nipples, do her a favor
17:29:10 <monerobull[m]1> Cry about it lol
17:29:37 <cryptogrampy[m]> > he's not using one of these
17:29:42 <monerobull[m]1> I didn't make the image but it's the result of you guys getting the research lab image removed
17:29:44 <Stnby[m]> Why cant we have Monero family
17:29:56 <Stnby[m]> Not everyone who gets paid in monero is a prostitute
17:30:02 <Siren[m]> :DDD
17:30:16 * cryptogrampy[m] uploaded an image: (305KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/JCOSisiNwfIumVtcWlwFuEHF/image.png >
17:30:37 <Siren[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: AMAZING JUST WHAT I NEED TO SCROLL THIS CHAT
17:30:56 <monerobull[m]1> "if this is too degen we'll show them real degen" you are responsible for the existence of that image
17:31:05 <sech1> What's wrong with that image? It's not even hentai
17:32:02 <Siren[m]> yes it's ecchi
17:32:05 <monerobull[m]1> They don't like the nipples
17:32:16 <sech1> I like the nipples
17:32:29 <Stnby[m]> Make monero a black guy instead
17:32:31 <monerobull[m]1> Which i agree, too explicit if it was officiall event imagery 
17:32:48 <Siren[m]> make monerokun with erect nipples instead
17:33:14 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: yes
17:33:24 <nioc> just use art from wolf for monerokon 
17:33:29 <nioc> :D
17:33:35 <Stnby[m]> How bout we contribute 50 cent each and let indian fiver make us an image?
17:33:37 <monerobull[m]1> But it isn't and they already removed the tasteful monerochan images from monerokon so now the imagery has been made more degenerate as "revenge"
17:33:40 <cryptogrampy[m]> worse than wallet2 or wallet-rpc?
17:33:51 <kinghat[m]> where did w0lf go?
17:33:55 <Siren[m]> cryptogrampy[m]: equally as bad XDDD 
17:33:56 <nioc> "tasteful"
17:34:02 <Siren[m]> I feel similar when I see both
17:34:05 <monerobull[m]1> Stnby[m]: We literally have an ai to do it for free
17:34:06 <Siren[m]> ahahaha
17:34:13 <Siren[m]> no
17:34:17 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]1: You all ruined the dataset
17:34:20 <Siren[m]> AI produces things like "MOONY"
17:34:24 <Siren[m]> XD
17:34:39 <monerobull[m]1> nioc: There was nothing wrong with researcher monerochan
17:34:39 <Siren[m]> there was something wrong
17:34:52 <Siren[m]> she wasn't in proper lab attire with her bangs 
17:34:57 <monerobull[m]1> Well no shit it's an image model with no sense of understanding for text
17:35:00 <Siren[m]> also big breast implants
17:35:09 <Siren[m]> :DDD
17:35:24 <monerobull[m]1> And no cryptographer sits in an actual laboratory either
17:35:32 <Siren[m]> yeah
17:35:34 <nioc> monerobull[m]1: that's like your opinion man
17:35:57 <kinghat[m]> monerobull[m]1: thanks for ruining it for me
17:36:18 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]1: monerochan in a lab, must be encoding private keys in DNA acids n a microbiology lab
17:36:36 <Siren[m]> s/n/in/
17:36:41 <ajs_[m]> for the record "researcher monerochan" is not new, the image had been used by monero research lab and localmonero is the past
17:36:46 <nioc> woke up today thinking it's been a while since drama
17:36:51 <Stnby[m]> Btw, finally will have some time for the monerokon payment plugin development as I graduated today :D
17:37:03 <monerobull[m]1> It was literally made for MRL
17:37:09 <monerobull[m]1> nioc: There is no drama
17:37:17 <nioc> damn
17:37:24 <Siren[m]> nioc we are shitposting, you can go back to sleep
17:37:33 <Siren[m]> enjoy your sleep sar
17:37:38 <monerobull[m]1> Just prudes trying to lay their views onto the rest of the community 😮‍💨
17:37:57 <kinghat[m]> theres drama llama now that you ruined my kink
17:38:04 <nioc> has nothing to do with prude, more like reality
17:38:12 <monerobull[m]1> No monerochan still goes into a real lab
17:38:18 <monerobull[m]1> She's living in a meta world
17:38:28 <Siren[m]> monerobull: I will draw you rare monerochans, just not for monerokon ok>
17:38:32 <Siren[m]> s/>/?/
17:38:34 <nioc> living in meta,  hmmmm
17:38:42 <Stnby[m]> For stickers?
17:38:47 <Siren[m]> maybe
17:39:22 <Stnby[m]> Can we get a discount if we design the stickers?
17:40:36 <monerobull[m]1> If you can actually draw that would be awesome 
17:40:37 <monerobull[m]1> Stnby[m]: You get them for free, just shipping. If it's actually good that is
17:42:49 <Rucknium[m]> isthmus is a chemist
17:42:50 <monerobull[m]1> And if you're at monerokon i can just hand em to you
17:42:51 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]1: Siren is the designer I only review xD
18:23:50 <ajs_[m]> <Stnby[m]> "Btw, finally will have some time..." <- congratulations! 
18:25:21 <ajs_[m]> <Stnby[m]> "How bout we contribute 50 cent..." <- I've commissioned a fiver designer to work on a monerokon logo for $80. we'll see what they come up with
18:30:31 <monerobull[m]1> <ajs_[m]> "I've commissioned a fiver..." <- Where is gnuteardeops :'(
18:30:40 <monerobull[m]1> * Where is gnuteardrops :'(
18:30:56 <monerobull[m]1> They made the last few designs, right?
18:34:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gnuteardrops made the hardfork logo for us as well
18:37:53 <nioc> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/oTqgDROEqlIvWzCJSJLeyRri/image.png
19:00:01 <plowsof11> can someone make a meme of drake "Paying community members who have already contributed " 🙅 "Spending 80$ on fiver" 😍 or the guy looking behind toward the other girl while walking with his gf
19:00:28 <Guest482> given Rucknium's earlier comment "The lack of C++ programmers is bottlenecking a huge amount of work", a question -- what are the reasons that Monero Core is written in C++? and is this shortage of C++ programmers specific to Monero, to crypto, or is it the case globally?
19:00:54 <twisted_turtle[m> <ajs_[m]> "I've commissioned a fiver..." <- if that doesn't work out I made another for you guys:
19:01:05 * twisted_turtle[m uploaded an image: (1511KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/GERFoCViAczmQvqcLFAscIdh/monerokon3%20poster.jpg >
19:08:54 <monerobull[m]1> This one might go into print
19:09:37 <kinghat[m]> leggings are too tight
19:09:52 <kinghat[m]> dont look very comfortable
19:18:26 <Rucknium[m]> chaser: AFAIK, Monero is written in C++ because it's based on the original C++ Cryptonote codebase. AFAIK, there isn't a compelling reason to switch languages. It would require an enormous amount of work. 
19:19:12 <plowsof11> has Stnby disabled image previews yet (please be alive?)
19:20:29 <monerobull[m]1> Rucknium[m]: Watch kayaba singlehandedly rewrite it it rust
19:20:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Image previews on what?
19:20:38 <Rucknium[m]> Speculation: programmers of all kinds are commanding a high salary now. Supply is low compared to demand. That may change with some of the tech bubble deflating. Easier but slower languages have replace C++ as the tool of choice for many programmers.
19:22:26 * plowsof11 uploaded an image: (69KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/iHScSTweReKIuFHtdAXrEatd/Screenshot%20from%202023-01-06%2019-21-58.png >
19:22:29 <Rucknium[m]> Knowledgeable people have already commented that something like that is not feasible.
19:22:41 <Rucknium[m]> Not a single dev in a short period of time
19:23:31 <Guest482> Rucknium[m]: well, speed is a major component in how scalable Monero can become, so that makes sense
19:23:41 <plowsof11> in settings -> preferences ofrnxmr , matrix users can opt out of being shown images unless you click first
19:23:52 <Rucknium[m]> There's the risk of accidental chain splits. Other chains have already had them (BTC, ETH)
19:24:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who wants to do that though?
19:24:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nothing in here I havent seen in real life 
19:24:23 <Rucknium[m]> The BTC one was just a halting of the chain for certain nodes since miners did not use the alternative node implementation
19:25:13 <Rucknium[m]> So you'd have to be absolutely sure you've got it right, in an environment when Monero's specification isn't even written down anywhere except for the source code itself.
19:25:31 <plowsof11> generally a good idea (we've had people 'attack' with images in the past) not talking about these monerochan images
19:26:00 <Rucknium[m]> I am not a real programmer. Ask a programmer's opinion on it.
19:27:03 <Guest482> Rucknium[m]: AFAIR, that wasn't because Bitcoin had a major alternative node implementation, but due to a bug in a new client version
19:27:14 <plowsof11> perfect-daemon , you're opinion please 
19:27:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> The real perfect-daemon, right?
19:28:01 <Rucknium[m]> chaser: Right. There is no major alternative node implementation of BTC, probably because people are afraid of chainsplits, so they don't use the alt implementations 
19:28:17 <Guest482> Rucknium[m]: Ethereum did have those issues early on, now multi-client is rather a source of resilience, although I'll admit it noticeably slows down development
19:28:53 <Rucknium[m]> Didn't ETH have splits in August 2021?
19:32:11 <Guest482> Rucknium[m]: it did, but it was a similar situation to the old Bitcoin split, two subsequent releases of the same client (geth) had an incompatibility bug (https://twitter.com/go_ethereum/status/1431264560019820547). it wasn't due to having 5 major full node implementations, all in different languages
19:32:44 <Guest482> > <@rucknium:monero.social> Didn't ETH have splits in August 2021?
19:32:44 <Guest482>  * it did, but it was a similar situation to the old Bitcoin split, two subsequent releases of the same client (geth) were incompatible (https://twitter.com/go\_ethereum/status/1431264560019820547). it wasn't due to having 5 major full node implementations, all in different languages
19:34:02 <Rucknium[m]> Personally, I like the idea of multiple implementations in abstract -- in theory. In practice, it looks hard for Monero at this point in time. But my commentary isn't worth nearly as much as people who know the programming.
19:34:50 <Rucknium[m]> chaser: I see.
19:35:15 <Stnby[m]> <plowsof11> "has Stnby disabled image..." <- Alive but in a hospital
19:36:02 <Rucknium[m]> To properly translate the Monero code, you would have to have people who know both C++ and the alternative language very well. In the short term, you still have the problem of the lack of C++ developers.
19:36:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stnby[m]: But has he disabled image previews 
19:37:06 <Stnby[m]> All good I have limited vision since now
19:38:47 <Guest482> Rucknium[m]: yeah, I'm not saying Monero should have multiple node implementations (although I see it as desirable on the long-term), I was just curious about the reasons for C++. but I'll say this: even if there's only one implementation, having a formal spec would be the right thing. it makes reasoning about the security of the protocol much easier.
19:41:06 <RavFX[m]> C++ is one of the fastest compiled language.
19:41:06 <RavFX[m]> Rust is good... Now, but was it when Monero was new?
19:41:06 <RavFX[m]> Other fast compiled language is C.
19:42:00 <sech1> At the time Monero was released, Rust was just some obscure "forever in beta" programming language
19:42:34 <Rucknium[m]> ^ Real programmer can now comment
19:46:00 <sech1> Rust/C/C++ are equally "fast" today, in terms of compiler optimizations
19:47:20 <RavFX[m]> sech1: Exact, there the fastest option you can get, I think.
19:47:20 <RavFX[m]> Except if you can do manual assembler optimizations
19:47:52 <sech1> Monero uses quite a bit of assembly code
19:47:58 <sech1> in crypto libraries and in RandomX
19:50:41 <RavFX[m]> So yeah, I see why the used c++
19:50:41 <RavFX[m]> They chosen the best programming language available to them for the job back when when initially began to work on Monero.
19:50:41 <RavFX[m]> Performance is useful, especially if you want the thing to scale.
19:54:58 <rbrunner> In 10 years something even better than Rust will appear as a first alpha on the scene, and in 20 years people will say
19:55:50 <rbrunner> "Why on Earth is software X implemented in that old language there, Rust? Wasn't xyz (the new better thing) ready when they wrote X?"
19:56:29 <rbrunner> And of course "I want to rewrite X in xyz. The only sane way to move forward. Anybody with me?"
19:57:30 <Mumuks> rbrunner: C was not the first, but one of the first languages and it is still around as a real contender, not just as legacy
19:59:59 <rbrunner> It depends, I would say. Starting something brand new today, and write it in C? Well, if it's special in some way, may work. Probably mostly not, however - for a *new* software.
20:00:48 <rbrunner> But Monero is in C++, it exists, and as a codebase it's bigger than it looks at first sight, and even at second sight
20:05:53 <rbrunner> Regarding the question of RavFX[m] where Rust was around 2012 when CryptoNote was implemented:
20:06:14 <rbrunner> You may check Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(programming_language)#Origins_(2006%E2%80%932012)
20:07:12 <rbrunner> And consider that it's not only about the language itself, it's also about available libraries for different stuff, as you don't want to write everything yourself from scratch
20:09:58 <rbrunner> And if that brand new language really was available: How would you know you *can* bet the house on it because it *will* succeed?
20:10:24 <rbrunner> Just look at the sentence in that article:
20:10:41 <rbrunner> In January 2014, the editor-in-chief of Dr. Dobb's Journal, Andrew Binstock, commented on Rust's chances of becoming a competitor to C++ in addition to the languages D, Go, and Nim
20:11:08 <rbrunner> Two languages from that list made it (Rust and Go), two more or less didn't (D and Nim).
20:12:44 <rbrunner> Nobody around today to call me a boomer? :)
20:17:05 <Rucknium[m]> Unfortunately, one of them is in the hospital. (This is a joke.)
20:19:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im here though.. BOOMER
20:19:37 <rbrunner> Ok, I needed that as sort of a confirmation.
20:19:49 <Siren[m]> Boomer
20:20:05 <rbrunner> Ah, I think I remember you.
20:20:17 <Siren[m]> Just get rid of the miner in wallet3.cpp 😄
20:20:40 <Siren[m]> Get rid of cpp in wallet3 too 
20:20:55 <rbrunner> Anything else, while we are at it? :)
20:21:43 <rbrunner> I will let ChatGPT migrate it to Rust and C.
20:29:01 <Siren[m]> <rbrunner> "I will let ChatGPT migrate it to..." <- Yesss
20:29:17 <Siren[m]> Let the GitHub copilot backend handle it
20:29:25 <Siren[m]> And violate GPL
20:29:54 <Stnby[m]> <rbrunner> "I will let ChatGPT migrate it to..." <- "Go" would work just fine as well
20:30:16 <Siren[m]> We can deal with the Go ourselves once you exit the hospital
20:30:24 <rbrunner> AIs can't violate something, don't you know. Just ask GitHub with Copilot
20:30:39 <rbrunner> GPL is only relevant for humans
20:32:31 <Siren[m]> When AIs violate licenses, their companies take responsibility and they get sued
20:33:24 <Siren[m]> https://githubcopilotinvestigation.com/
21:13:40 <kinghat[m]> just heard about c++ on a podcast: https://www.cppstories.com/2022/cpp-status-2022/
21:14:16 <kinghat[m]> people dont seem to be switching to rust only because its that new new
21:27:18 <Siren[m]> The only reason why I'm not using it for a project is that it's not portable enough yet, poor ARM support, no RISC-V. So going with Go instead.