04:45:11 -xmr-pr- [css-proposals] moorlanche1 opened issue #63: assignment
04:45:11 -xmr-pr- > https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/issues/63
04:47:14 <selsta> how come gitlab doesn't have any captchas and email validation, or do we have to add that ourselves
05:35:05 <Siren[m]> It comes with both you need to enable them
05:35:13 <Siren[m]> Don't enable captcha it's google only
05:36:02 <Siren[m]> Try setting up an SSO instead so you can cover taiga and others as well because they also get spam
10:53:47 <plowsof11> Meeting today 16:00UTC https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/779
10:54:14 <plowsof11> ajs_ there is an events meeting too?
10:58:48 <ajs_[m]> yes
10:59:23 <ajs_[m]> 18:00 UTC https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/771
16:00:31 <plowsof11> Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/779
16:00:35 <plowsof11> Greetings
16:00:36 <plowsof11> hello
16:00:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Greetings
16:00:59 <Lovera[m]> Hi
16:01:26 <Rucknium[m]> Hi
16:01:28 <hinto[m]> hi i'm here
16:02:19 <plowsof11> Community highlights - what happened this week? 
16:02:39 <Siren[m]> Hello, quick update about The Monero ATM Project ❗️Our main parts have arrived and we already started to program libraries starting with the bill acceptor (ccTalk).
16:02:39 <Siren[m]> All the progress/ideas/technical information/videos 📹️ can be found on our Matrix room linked on the website. 🏧 https://atm.monero.is http://xmratmkz4ehs3ejl2x23fuski4tkw4sjkqlted445bkwx3dmhtbu5sid.onion
16:03:40 <plowsof11> very promising, wishing the atm a safe journey to MoneroKon!
16:04:13 <plowsof11> [p2pool hardforking to reduce chain bloat] (https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining/comments/1095730/psa_p2pool_network_upgrade_aka_hardfork_on_march/) Credit goes duggavo who posted [this issue](https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/issues/221) on Github. Testing shall begin next week according to xmrig/p2pool dev sech1 ([who provides instructions here](https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/issues/153))
16:04:54 <plowsof11> the transactions on testnet are ready for the p2poolers https://community.rino.io/explorer/testnet/
16:05:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not sure how this prevents a had actor from deploying the old p2pool, but havent thought about it either 
16:05:44 <plowsof11> anyone can help test the p2pool HF next week btw,, only need a tiny amount of hashes
16:06:01 <plowsof11> - jeffro256 found something that [isn't an issue](https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-dev/20230114#c188411) but could have been - kayaba/sech are on it, more eyes on the code the better! thanks jeff!
16:06:16 <plowsof11> this is on going and i don't know much about it but looks like its being handled ^
16:06:53 <sech1> we found a solution already
16:07:07 <sech1> check #monero-dev logs
16:07:17 <MSvB[m]> Hello.
16:07:33 <plowsof11> hello MSvB!
16:08:06 <Rucknium[m]> AFAIK, continuing the old P2Pool chain is possible. It's a question off if there would be enough hashpower on the old chain for anyone to want to mine on it.
16:08:23 <plowsof11> great work sech1, thanks!
16:09:11 <plowsof11> GUPAX will be ready for the p2pool hardfork hinto ? 😁
16:09:26 <hinto[m]> is the chain bloat mostly from consolidation? i remember being surprised at how small the p2pool payout outputs were
16:09:36 <sech1> gupax and monero-gui just need to pull the latest binaries and they'll be ready
16:09:41 <hinto[m]> i think it turned out to be less than a megabyte a day?
16:09:45 <sech1> bloat is from consolidation
16:09:57 <MSvB[m]> Hi plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org
16:10:45 <plowsof11> there will be an events meeting in #monero-events:monero.social at 18:00UTC for those wondering 
16:10:53 <Rucknium[m]> Next week I will release my findings about centralized mining pools (accidentally) delaying transaction confirmations. Any commentary on it? Has anyone noticed this with your own transactions?
16:11:45 <hinto[m]> i've mined a smaller coin where a majority of the nodes were also operated by the biggest pool
16:12:00 <hinto[m]> and it seemed like they rejected any hashes from solo miners (including me)
16:12:38 <Rucknium[m]> hinto: IMHO, the big issue is the privacy problems with normal users' effective ring sizes being 1-3 units lower than intended, due to them including p2pool outputs
16:13:07 <plowsof11> oh almost forgot - ofrnxmr found that marking a node as trusted reduces initial network traffic - for redeeming a giftcard this means instead of 20 seconds - its now 6 seconds , thanks ofrnxmr 
16:13:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> We shall see
16:13:34 <Rucknium[m]> See https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/109
16:14:57 <hinto[m]> agreed, you hate to see multiple coinbase transactions in the ring
16:15:54 <plowsof11> anything else on anyones mind before we discuss the ccs proposals? 
16:17:24 <plowsof11> if we could quickly look at the 'sentiments from the last meeting' here https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/779 
16:17:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stack wallet and cake both support trusted nodes now btw
16:17:37 <plowsof11> is there anyone who disagrees with the merge / close list ?
16:17:56 <plowsof11> koe to funding, close commit / lebanon 
16:21:33 <plowsof11>   b. [CypherPunk Radio](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/357)    
16:21:57 <plowsof11> i had direct messagedNotMtth after last meeting  
16:22:35 <plowsof11> meant to be giving them a chance to act on the feedback 
16:23:07 <plowsof11> no updates / nothing new though 
16:23:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> I agree
16:23:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> With merge close list 
16:23:36 <plowsof11> thanks
16:23:36 <monerobull[m]1> <plowsof11> "koe to funding, close commit..." <- Agreed 
16:23:55 <plowsof11> we have nothing to discuss for cypherpunk radio tbh 
16:24:32 <monerobull[m]1> Close 
16:25:20 <plowsof11> ajs gave some statistics for their radio project - lack luster. the only saving grace for radio is the small amount , but even sitll not much interest in terms of votes / sentiment 
16:25:39 <Rucknium[m]> On Cypherpunk Radio, if a proposer doesn't have the motivation or capability to follow through with the steps and feedback of a proposal, they likely won't follow through on implementation after funding.
16:26:17 <plowsof11> i agree
16:26:47 <monerobull[m]1> If you plan on being a community-funded community radio you could at least attend community meetings
16:27:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id be ok with closing just because it seems to be a resource hog without much to gain from it 
16:27:37 <plowsof11> moving on 
16:27:46 <plowsof11>   d. [Create Educational Content in Spanish](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/366) 
16:28:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Any news on the sponships
16:28:23 <plowsof11> thanks Lovera for the update here https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/366#note_20324
16:28:32 <Rucknium[m]> Some people probably cannot attend community meetings due to time conflicts. That shouldn't be a requirement. But they can leave comments on the CCS proposal or post comments here before/after meetings
16:28:43 <Lovera[m]> Hello everyone!  Sorry for not being able to attend the previous meeting. 
16:28:51 <Rucknium[m]> Or message plowsof
16:28:53 <plowsof11> yes can definitely post on the ccs if unable to attend (as others have done)
16:29:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium:  he does usually attend, to be fair 
16:29:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> The quote could be aimed at everyone 
16:30:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Regarding lovera update, 
16:30:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close er
16:30:25 <Lovera[m]> Regarding cakewallet, as I have commented in the ccs, "Unfortunately I am unable to disclose that information. However, I don't think this will influence in any way as there is no rule in this regard. The work submitted and the money required for it, is something completely different from the cakewallet sponsor."
16:31:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> For all I know you make more in sponsorships than you are hoping to milk us for.
16:31:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Could ve that you get peanuts
16:31:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Business =/= speculation
16:31:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> So I must say, no
16:31:06 <plowsof11> technically not breaking any rules (from what i can see) - its just peoples opinions now if that 'ok'
16:31:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont have to break a rule
16:31:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're not entitled to funding just because you didnt break rules 
16:31:53 <Lovera[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> For all I know you make more in sponsorships than you are hoping to milk us for.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/db471420c98705fe293f1f3718bf3f53528501ed>)
16:32:40 <plowsof11> not so much a rule but - ' if you want thier upvote / support ' 
16:33:15 <nioc> ofrnxmr[m]: is Lovera[m] getting funding elsewhere for what they are proposing? 
16:33:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> If I get 100k a year from cake to advertise them on NY twitter
16:33:17 <Rucknium[m]> With these new CCS videos, do you intend to omit mention of Cake sponsorship in all of them?
16:33:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> And then I ask community for 10k to run that same twitter account 
16:33:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont see the issue? 
16:33:36 <Lovera[m]> This is monero, the mere fact of having to share financial information should already be a problem. I have had no problem showing you my YT income, you might be surprised by cake's income but I am not allowed to disclose this information. 
16:33:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> nioc:  yes
16:34:04 <nioc> mentioning cake sponsorship in the videos sounds like free advertising of cake  :D
16:34:48 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: Support from only ofrnxmr?   There are other proposals that were in the same situation as mine and have passed to funding. A proposer could submit a proposal and also work part-time. What is the problem?
16:35:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Paid advertising* cake sponsors them
16:35:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> You mean observed 
16:35:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> You forgot about moon
16:35:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Observer*
16:35:49 <Lovera[m]> nioc: This is completely different work than 5 cakewallet videos
16:35:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> And dont get me wrong, I will be asking observer 
16:36:09 <nioc> ofrnxmr[m]: are you saying that cake already paid lovera for the content that they are proposing in this CCS?
16:36:09 <plowsof11> for the people who ' not disclosing cake sponsorship '  (is not an issue) then it would be good to make clear that - " this is a community sponsored video "  (and include no other advertisers in it 
16:36:31 <plowsof11> cake are sponsoring 5 videos per month 
16:37:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not sure. They cant say what they were paid or what for
16:37:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Only that that the project in question already generates income 
16:37:24 <plowsof11> the ccs would be sponsoring extra content - on loveras main channel iirc 
16:37:26 <Lovera[m]> Of course, I mean, have you read the proposal? xD 
16:37:26 <Lovera[m]>  this is completely different work!! this include even more videos in my other channel YT. W/o cakewallet sponsor .. How can I apply for financing and at the same time place cakewallet ads?
16:38:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lots of wordgames being played here 
16:38:35 <ajs_[m]> Yes, xmr.radio had strong start, but died down after a few months
16:39:08 <Lovera[m]> Cakewalelt promotes 5 videos per month. This is something totally separate. Can't I work part time and at the same time launch a proposal? It sounds really strange, actually.... There is NO rule for this. 
16:39:08 <Lovera[m]> This job is completely dedicated to the Monero community. I would even make videos without youtube ad (no monetization).
16:39:08 <ajs_[m]> I didn't renew radio license subscription and switched over creative commons music to cut costs
16:39:08 <Lovera[m]> More than marketing is a help to the whole spanish community. 
16:39:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> You have multiple channels
16:39:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> one of those is a large channel
16:39:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> One is smaller and dedicated to monero 
16:39:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which channel do you refer to
16:39:31 <Lovera[m]> Take a look at the videos related to the mining or Nodes of monero... Many visualizations that help people. 
16:39:32 <ajs_[m]> And run the stream at least until the domain expires July 2023
16:39:33 <nioc> people come for funding of content that few people are going to see.  Here we have a proposal for a channel that actually gets views.  
16:39:46 <plowsof11> thank you for this information ajs_ (xmr.radio is still a great project)
16:39:47 <Lovera[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Both... I will post in both channels
16:40:10 <Rucknium[m]> It's still not clear to me whether Cake sponsorship will appear in these proposed CCS videos.
16:40:56 <plowsof11> so for the people who do not care about the disclosing of cakes sponsorship - then take Ruckniums suggestion and state clearly in the proposal - that the community sponsored videos will not be monetised / advertise anything else
16:41:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lovera[m]: Which one does cake sponsor 
16:42:10 <Lovera[m]> Rucknium[m]: Guys, I repeat again. The work proposed in the CCS is solely and exclusively for the community. No cakewalelt ads, no youtube ads (although sometimes youtube adds them without permission). it is a work completely apart from cakewallet's sponsorship.
16:42:29 <plowsof11> nice, just write that in the proposal to be clear 
16:42:44 <Rucknium[m]> Lovera: Thanks for clarifying
16:42:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> There's nothing wrong with having multiple sponsors..
16:43:54 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: I will update the CCS to make it even clearer.  
16:44:48 <plowsof11> and then people must vote on the gitlab if they support 
16:45:12 <monerobull[m]1> Next item please 
16:45:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im a she, not a person 
16:45:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not a people**
16:45:44 <monerobull[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: You're a ringsig 
16:45:59 <plowsof11> there are no other items 
16:46:21 <monerobull[m]1> Cool
16:46:26 <plowsof11> AOB?
16:46:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next week
16:46:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero meet
16:46:58 <monerobull[m]1> Nice
16:47:30 <Rucknium[m]> I'm going to use txstreet.com to explain the tx confirmation delay issue. So thanks to CCS donors for supporting txstreet in 2021.
16:47:36 <monerobull[m]1> What time?
16:47:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Txstreet is awesome
16:47:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> The 24th, not sure the time
16:47:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> sgp: 
16:47:56 <plowsof11> when they get kicked off the bus?
16:48:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive seen that
16:48:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yesterday actually.
16:48:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bus wasnt full but 5 or so people got booted 
16:48:48 <Rucknium[m]> That's what's happening. Of course, I collect the data directly from nodes rather than txstreet. 
16:48:51 <plowsof11> theres a tx here thats been waiting for nearly 7 hours .. could definitely use a seat https://community.rino.io/explorer/testnet/txpool
16:49:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium:  amateue
16:49:08 <Rucknium[m]> My motto is "Keep the Isabellas on the bus"
16:49:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> I have a feeling those long lineups are coming 
16:49:58 <plowsof11> new transactions with the same fee get to sit on the bus - not fair
16:50:23 <monerobull[m]1> ofrnxmr[m]: Then the bus just gets larger silly 
16:51:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero unconfirmed racist 
16:52:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull @monerobull:matrix.org:  🐒 does it tho 🥳
16:52:40 <plowsof11> looking forward to the demonstration Rucknium , hopefully its recorded or planned so we can see?
16:53:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Screenrecording ftw
16:53:19 <Rucknium[m]> I just take screenshots. It's in blog/Reddit form
16:53:26 <plowsof11> ok good 
16:54:31 <plowsof11> with great sadness, it seems its time to end the meeting 
16:54:54 <hinto[m]> wrap up by listing ccs proposals that have consensus?
16:55:25 <Rucknium[m]> Litecoin is beating Monero in speed to first transaction confirmation. Did you know that? Now you do
16:55:34 <Rucknium[m]> Litecoin block time is 2 minutes 30 seconds. Monero's is 2 minutes flat (on average)
16:55:53 <plowsof11> radio seems to have consensus of "meh" and "close"
16:56:47 <plowsof11> lovera's is ready for your opinions / votes after showing their hand / clarifying things 
16:57:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Poke it with a stick, see if it does something 
16:57:54 <plowsof11> the others are listed in the issue (koe to funding, close lebanon/commit)
17:00:02 <plowsof11> thank you all for attending x
17:00:29 <monerobull[m]1> Thanks for hosting 
17:01:06 <plowsof11> events meeting in 1 hour 🤝
17:01:34 <MSvB[m]> Thanks everyone for good meeting and great moderation plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org.
17:01:55 <hinto[m]> ty plowsof
17:02:06 <hinto[m]> speaking of, shouldn't you be getting payed?
17:02:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> A long time sgo
17:02:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> But luigi paid mj instead 
17:02:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> 🙊
17:02:41 <monerobull[m]1> Kek
17:03:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> He's like 4+ months UB lol
17:03:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Has been going since the proposal was proposed 
17:04:12 <plowsof11> i am a masochist and have requested and received 1 payout : and am imposing more delays until i have surpassed the workload of the 1st period 
17:04:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1/4, not bad 
17:05:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> I mean, working for 25% of the stated rate is awesome. Thanks for being so generous
17:06:02 <plowsof11> im unsure of what my path should be - focus on the (perhaps irrelevant) work in progress list : e.g. xmrsale's abandoned proposal  ~ what to do with the remaining funds or should i focus on (perhaps important) things such as getting people to look at the 10block lock again? 'no library left behind'? 
17:06:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should be collect you pay and keep doing what your doing 
17:07:01 <monerobull[m]1> Can I get paid for something too pls
17:07:09 <plowsof11> i have focussed more on the gui / testing recently and taken more a backseat in terms of ccs proposals 
17:07:31 <blankpage[m]> Clearly I have missed the meeting but I'd just like to say I broadly agree with the apparent consensus on each CCS proposal. I think a radio stream requires passion more than funding to get the word out and it should be able to stand on it's own two feet. We could pay 1000s for the slickest stream ever but there is no guarantee of an audience.
17:08:55 <plowsof11> "helping" ccs proposers 'behind the scenes' can be misinterpreted as favouritism and such. it seems best to keep it in the open
17:09:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull[m]1: No
17:09:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> I wont use your referral 
17:09:35 <blankpage[m]> I think Lovera is a better investment as they have established audience, although I'd suggest to them to have a single channel rather than 2 and to try and get their backlog onto other platforms
17:09:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> I might waste your time though..
17:10:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> ... what a guy 😅🤣
17:10:20 <plowsof11> thanks for input blankpage
17:10:25 <monerobull[m]1> Sirs why hasn't the money been taken out of my account yet 
17:12:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Helping them find instructions on creating it etc is all good and fine 
17:12:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> But coaching them just leads to people saying "plowsof is my friends so let me in"
17:12:39 <plowsof11> a user called tom asked for help (in 10 monero channels) and ofrnxmr / monerobull provided support - but every time tom kept insisting on returning to step one and posting screenshots with arrows 
17:13:16 <monerobull[m]1> The numbers didn't even make any sense
17:14:28 <blankpage[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  I think clearing out the junk in the CCS WIP category is very important work. Any funds which are returned to the general fund can be put to good use
17:14:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> 0.1234
17:15:08 <monerobull[m]1> And then he just states "thank you very much I've done it thanks to you"
17:15:12 <nioc> yes WIP and completed is not.....complete
17:15:16 <monerobull[m]1> And didn't use my referral code
17:15:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nit exactly blankpage: 
17:15:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id prefer those funds not go to GF
17:15:24 <nioc> I would like to make a CCS proposal for NGU
17:16:11 <blankpage[m]> Why would it be better for funds for abandoned projects not to return to general fund?
17:16:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> No overisight 
17:16:58 <nioc> isn't that the stated rule?
17:16:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who's to say that the money is put to good use?
17:16:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id prefer it be earmarked for future ccs or something 
17:17:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> It is
17:17:12 <plowsof11> for xmrsale - there are 30xmr - the project is a fork - that has fell behind the master branch and is abandonned and not used - monero wordpress remains king 
17:17:24 <monerobull[m]1> Monerotopia is live rn
17:17:24 <monerobull[m]1> Join on stage: https://streamyard.com/bdyrcgcs7a
17:17:24 <monerobull[m]1> Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhM39knZcU8
17:17:35 <nioc> but having CCS stay in CCS has some sort of simple logic
17:17:51 <nioc> but how is it determined where it goes?
17:18:12 <plowsof11> currently the "lowest hanging fruit" is "xmrsale" imo
17:18:29 <blankpage[m]> I assumed the purpose of general fund was to pay for worthy CCS and some hosting costs
17:18:51 <nioc> yes the GF does contribute to some CCSs
17:19:05 <nioc> so it does go back, and more
17:19:22 <plowsof11> yes the general fund is paying for things each month : but it is currently heaviy subsidised by donators https://www.getmonero.org/community/sponsorships/
17:19:35 <plowsof11> s/heaviy/heavily 
17:20:42 <plowsof11> ok then, lets pick xmrsale and ruin the developers life / stop them from returning when xmr moons 
17:20:49 <plowsof11> to claim remaining funds
17:21:46 <blankpage[m]> For previous abandoned WIP CCSs which you have resolved, were the funds mostly returned to the general fund?
17:22:54 <plowsof11> i've resolved nothing 
17:23:00 <nioc> lol
17:23:01 <monerobull[m]1> Failure 
17:23:24 <plowsof11> other than tryptych - which resolved itself - confirmed failure 
17:23:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> <nioc> "but how is it determined where..." <- Is say by percentage 
17:26:19 <blankpage[m]> I see. This list is long and many things seem abandoned 
17:26:19 <blankpage[m]> https://ccs.getmonero.org/work-in-progress/
17:26:19 <blankpage[m]> so reclaiming some funds to be ringfenced for "critical" dev work seems a very worthy cause
17:28:30 <plowsof11> purgatory has "xmrssale" "monero outreach 3" and "payment gateways" https://github.com/plowsof/ccs-wip-list
17:28:58 <plowsof11> would be simpler to "pick one" and get it resolved 
17:31:09 <plowsof11> we have an outreach proposal up for voting now - and outreach 3 has (it seems) 30+ collecting dust 
17:31:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> The problem with flushing 
17:31:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is NOTJING stops a round robin
17:31:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> They can come back and milk donors again and just keep funneling into GF 
17:32:51 <plowsof11> anhdres when monero garden update 
17:32:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like, first proposal 250xmr, gets paid 100, disappears, 150 go to gf
17:32:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Proposer returns to complete the project at a cost of 250xmr 
17:33:29 <blankpage[m]> The github page is very well organized and certainly saves me some clicks. Yes I would say resolving any of those lost causes would be good. I suppose there could be some rule where there is a set period for community feedback on what should be done with abandoned funds and perhaps certain proposals could qualify for "recycled" funds if there is a big need for the work.
17:34:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Also need some sort of rule where the proposer cannot open a new proposal for more than the remained of the previous 
17:35:09 <blankpage[m]> I.e. once a WIP CCS is certified abandoned, you could add the fate of the funds the agenda for these meetings for X number of weeks
17:35:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> In the example k gave, that proposal would be able to return tl complete it at a cost of 150xmr, which should be sitting somewhere from the prior campaign
17:35:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> The problem is.. abandoned is only as far as greed and memory
17:36:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> People are more than happy to push something like haveno, regardless of the bleeding or abandonment 
17:36:55 <plowsof11> i think its clear to mark xmrsale as abandonned 
17:36:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Havent front end*
17:38:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  I agree
17:38:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Some of these ccs should be tread lighrlyl though 
17:38:17 <blankpage[m]> My understanding is that ultimately  the decision rests with the mysterious "core" or "Luigi" , but the system I just outlined at least gets the community involved in the decision making process.
17:38:17 <blankpage[m]> It would be better if the original donors could decide but obviously that is impossible
17:41:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right. Its a problem to pay for goods and never receive them, and then have bad actors campaign saying how YOU robbedtheir donors
17:41:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wait😃 didnt that just happen 
17:42:40 <blankpage[m]> Did I miss some drama? Do I want to know? 🫣
17:43:37 <plowsof11> unrelated: the "no library left behind" was for the future developers building upon seraphis / current code base (the c abi thing) - e.g. a small pilot ccs to "do the c abi thing" and "show the benefits for monero-javascript" specifically (as this appears to be the most used / actively developed 'thing'
17:43:39 <plowsof11> do i have any idea what that entails? no 
17:43:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> You dont want to know
17:44:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Testnet wen
17:44:42 <blankpage[m]> What is "the c abi thing"?
17:44:54 <plowsof11> i have no idea 
17:45:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Hard to build on no-testnet
17:45:22 <plowsof11> something about turning spaghetti into lego blocks 
17:45:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gotcha 
17:45:34 <plowsof11> more info here https://github.com/seraphis-migration/strategy/issues/2
17:45:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah. Direction
17:46:30 <plowsof11> i would say the "c abi thing" is a gaping wound for alot of developers. 10 block lock issue is a pain point for users.
17:48:59 <blankpage[m]> Well that c abi issue is outside of my current knowledge but if there is no one coming forward to build it and it is badly needed then isn't that what the bounties website is for?
17:50:57 <SerHack> Sorry for OT: if you need assistance with Monero Integrations, please open a new ticket on https://support.monerointegrations.com Thanks in advance!
17:50:59 <blankpage[m]> Bounty would need to be clearly specified and written by someone who understands the problem
17:52:51 <plowsof11> thanks SerHack. indeed , ideally it would be a small 'pilot' project - which would benefit e.g. "monero-js" (i say this as it seems the most widely used thing at the moment which would "benefit") - i believe there is 'on going-maintenance' involved too. but yeah, have to see woodsers thoughts.. if it would even benefit them 🤷
17:53:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> SerHack:  purgatory, no?
17:53:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whats the story 
17:56:48 <plowsof11> the goals / issues may have changed now (with it being so old) - could work something out to put the funds towards "new improvements of monero-wp" for another contributor willing to take them up 
17:58:05 <SerHack> my CCS is still opened, if anyone wants to take the bounty for improving and implementing the features I planned, go ahead and contact me.
18:05:14 <Rucknium[m]> blankpage: Bounties only work sometimes. Donors are not guaranteed a product. Some bounty donations go into a black hole when no devs show up.
18:08:34 <blankpage[m]> Is this "black hole" the general fund?
18:09:32 <Rucknium[m]> bounties.monero.social is independent from the general fund AFAIK. Black hole as in funds go in, nothing comes out since no one actually completes the bounty.
18:25:56 <blankpage[m]> The website seems to lack any information whatsoever other than the list of bounties 🧐
18:29:59 <Rucknium[m]> blankpage: https://github.com/t-900-a/fider-monero-bot/blob/master/policy/scope.md
18:30:43 <Rucknium[m]> blankpage: https://github.com/t-900-a/fider-monero-bot/issues/6
18:31:24 <blankpage[m]> Thanks! Should be linked on the site somewhere
18:33:25 <Rucknium[m]> blankpage: You can request that at #monero-bounties:monero.social 
19:30:11 -xmr-pr- [meta] ajs-xmr opened issue #781: MoneroKon 2023 Planning Meeting: Saturday 21st January 2023 @ 18:00 UT...
19:30:11 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/781
19:30:46 <fr33_yourself[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "Litecoin is beating Monero in..." <- Litecoin doesn't have Confidential Transactions
19:35:54 <Rucknium[m]> fr33_yourself: There is nothing stopping XMR txs from being confirmed 60 seconds faster -- other than poorly-chosen default mining pool configuration settings. This isn't about what LTC has and XMR doesn't have. LTC, BCH, and DOGE all have similar confirmation behavior. XMR is an outlier, and not in a good way.
19:36:38 <sech1> It will be a non-issue as soon as p2pool takes over everything :D
19:36:46 <Rucknium[m]> P2Pool does it right. Their block template update policy is roughly the same as LTC, BCH, and DOGE
19:37:57 <sech1> p2pool v2.7 even added immediate template update for high fee transactions
19:46:04 <fr33_yourself[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "fr33_yourself: There is nothing..." <- Does p2pool pay more than other centralized mining pools?
19:46:22 <fr33_yourself[m]> To the individual miner partaking in the pool?
19:46:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think you missed the point 
19:46:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its about first confirmation
19:46:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Means some pools are censoring transactions at leisure 
19:47:18 <fr33_yourself[m]> Within Monero there are pools censoring transactions?
19:47:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can watch tx street to see people get kicked off the bus
19:47:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: Yes
19:47:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> That is what this topic is about, entirely 
19:48:06 <fr33_yourself[m]> How? and what is the pattern of the behavior?
19:48:20 <fr33_yourself[m]> Why is are some tx's targeted and kicked out of the first block?
19:48:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not that they are deleting tx, but censoring / delaying the first confirmation 
19:48:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> People wait for the bus, bus comes, is not full, but wont let them on
19:48:38 <fr33_yourself[m]> Why?
19:48:56 <fr33_yourself[m]> For what reason would they do that? Doesn't that mean they are missing out on fees?
19:50:31 <fr33_yourself[m]> Does this also mean that a specific transactions is being blocked from entering multiple consecutive blocks or no?
19:50:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why? Asking the wrong person.
19:50:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Could be a bug
19:50:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Could be because they are bored and like to mess with the blockchain 
19:51:51 <fr33_yourself[m]> That is strange
19:52:47 <fr33_yourself[m]> I suspect a bug at play rather than intentional tweaks
19:55:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well p2pool made fixes because of the issue 
19:56:33 <rbrunner> Sounds like the "not updating the block template on the way to the next block" issue that was recently discussed in the MRL meeting
19:56:42 <rbrunner> See the meeting log: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/778
19:57:00 <rbrunner> From here: [01-11-2023 17:52:04] <Rucknium[m]> Preliminary results on tx c ...
19:59:08 <sech1> ofrnxmr[m] they get kicked out because bus closes doors as soon as the previous bus departs (this is how centralized pools work now)
19:59:15 <sech1> so the bus waits for 2 minutes with closed doors
19:59:27 <sech1> txstreet just thinks that doors are open
20:03:39 <fr33_yourself[m]> but the tx's are getting processed eventually right?
20:03:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right
20:05:32 <fr33_yourself[m]> ok that's good
20:25:34 <Rucknium[m]> <fr33_yourself[m]> "For what reason would they do..." <- Yes, they are missing out on fees. P2Pool's average fee revenue per block is 0.003 XMR greater than the rest.
20:26:45 <Rucknium[m]> <fr33_yourself[m]> "Does this also mean that a..." <- No. I don't see this in the data. I would not refer to what I am seeing in the data as "censoring transactions".
20:27:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> More like delaying 1 block 
20:27:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Not that they are deleting tx..." <- Tried to backpeddle the censorship line here
20:28:15 <Rucknium[m]> Yes. I have drawn diagrams to make it clearer what is happening.
21:28:26 <escapethe3ra[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "And dont get me wrong, I will be..." <- What did you want to ask me?
21:30:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Long day 🛌 catch up on official business another time
21:31:09 <escapethe3ra[m]> If it's related to sponsorships I am not interested in any for MO, but thanks.
21:32:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sir, its about 24 or 25 hours past my before time. This is not about my sponsorship or a bad trade.
21:33:17 <escapethe3ra[m]> 🙃
21:33:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Plowsof 😭 save me. They dont know what I just went through)
21:34:26 <sech1> I know. You went through it at least 24 or 25 times.
21:35:39 <escapethe3ra[m]> In other news, according to Elite Wallet, Majestic Bank is just an 'in-app exchange partner', that's all.
21:35:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2hrs in dms to keep the spam from overflowing here 
21:36:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> 🙏 thanks plowsof 
21:37:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> escapethe3ra:  well, I guess we have to take his word for it 🙂
21:37:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> New wallet by new person with a trust me proxy  
21:37:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> I trust majestic more than I trust EliteWallet: with 2 twitter posts and a 2 day old account and stolen Github 
21:38:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Stolen code) 
21:42:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> I cant prove majestic = elite, so what I said above is assuming they are separate entities. < I dont actually believe that but ill humor him
22:05:40 <jwinterm[m]> Even if elite is exactly same people as majestic, is it really an issue that they use two different brands/corporate entities?
22:05:57 <jwinterm[m]> I guess they don't actually have any legally defined corporate structure or entity
22:06:41 <jwinterm[m]> But if it was same group of people operating two different companies, one exchange one wallet, would that be less of an issue?
22:06:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, it doesnt have to ve elite by majestic 
22:07:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> That isnt the issue. The issue is the bad nature of the wallet dev which just so happens to be a well known community member and contributor
22:08:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who* just so happened to be
22:12:29 <plowsof11> it has wownero though, there is a chance for forgiveness 
22:12:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stack has wiw
22:13:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Majestic should have forked stack
22:13:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> We already have 2 walleye with the cake ui. He dudnt even change the color
22:14:18 <plowsof11> the "proxy" is new and is now a feature request for cake?
22:15:29 <alpharabius[m]> wagmi bros
22:16:27 <plowsof11> cake is copied by 2 wallets now, must be doing something right 
22:19:47 <vikCake[m]> I talked about challenges of being open source in an interview some years back.    It keeps us on our toes and forces us to be a step ahead.  It stimulates competition.
22:25:47 <vikCake[m]> Just gotta be better and faster.
22:25:56 <vikCake[m]> * We just gotta be better and faster.
22:29:10 <jwinterm[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "That isnt the issue. The issue..." <- The bad nature of wallet dev?
22:29:34 <vikCake[m]> * I talked about challenges of being open source in an interview some years back. The good part about is that it keeps us on our toes and forces us to be a step ahead. It stimulates competition.
22:30:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stolen entire codebase 
22:30:15 <n1oc> koe: Seraphis Library Work 2 has moved to funding! https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/seraphis-library-work-2.html
22:30:33 <jwinterm[m]> Stole MIT licensed code?
22:31:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> I mean.... they deleted the commit history and references
22:31:50 <jwinterm[m]> Oic
22:32:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> And havent merged the or toads the licence back 
22:32:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> PR*
22:32:14 <vikCake[m]> * I talked about challenges of being open source in an interview some years back. The good part about it is that it keeps us on our toes and forces us to be a step ahead. It stimulates competition.
22:32:43 <jwinterm[m]> If the license is MIT are they really under any obligation to do that?
22:32:57 <jwinterm[m]> Or just poor form?
22:33:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Disgusting Taste from trusted people 
22:33:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who have a "trusted" proxy in the wallet 
22:33:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its all 🚮
22:33:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Facepalm
22:34:53 <jwinterm[m]> What's the difference between trusted proxy and defaulting users to nodes controlled but the wallet a la cake?
22:35:27 <jwinterm[m]> *controlled by the wallet
22:35:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> The Reddit post, the twitter posts, its all cringe and generous to call truths
22:36:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Exactly 
22:37:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yet its advertised as enhavced privacy. Its just a honeypot
22:37:38 <jwinterm[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Exactly there's no difference between default trusted proxy and defaulting to nodes operated by wallet?
22:38:02 <jwinterm[m]> Genuinely curious
22:38:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not "exactly" but close enough, yeah
22:38:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> If I use his proxy, I can still use cake node and still give cake all my info 
22:38:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> But I just end up also sharing it with the wallet dev
22:39:28 <plowsof11> is there any usefulness to it? 
22:39:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, its specifically for wallet traffic
22:39:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> So its obviously going to be wallet traffic going tl and from that proxy 
22:39:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not hiding anything 
22:40:07 <plowsof11> i assume for using a personal proxy maybe?
22:40:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its just telling wallet dev when you are using majestic 
22:40:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> There is a personal proxy feature as well - this is good
22:40:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> But the "lvl 2 enhanced privacy" is straight snake oil
22:41:18 <plowsof11> is the intention 'dont mess with complicated orbitbot / tor and just use 'my proxy' instead?
22:41:25 <jwinterm[m]> But in both cases if you actually care about your privacy you shouldn't use default settings? 
22:41:37 * jwinterm[m] cares not about privacy
22:41:42 <jwinterm[m]> 😛
22:41:46 <plowsof11> but my proxy sees 'everything' (same as a vpn provider? or)
22:41:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Default setting = its an old form
22:42:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> So it calls home to coingecko, always 
22:42:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lvl 2, it sends everything through the built in honeypot, so hiding the coingecko stuff. The rest is moot.
22:42:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lvl3 you can add your own tor proxy etc 
22:43:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cake wallet and stack wallet both include a default mode out of the box that dont make any external calls.
22:43:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerujo as well
22:43:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> So wtf is enhanced about relying on a honeypot
22:43:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/form/fork/
22:44:07 <jwinterm[m]> Good q
22:44:20 <vikCake[m]> I have another question…
22:44:30 <plowsof11> convenience enhancement pills ++
22:44:32 <vikCake[m]> What movie or show should sunali and i watch tonight?
22:44:54 <vikCake[m]> s/sunali/Sunali/
22:45:09 <jwinterm[m]> Watched first episode of white lotus last night, seemed like will be decent, and season only six episodes
22:45:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> The equalizer 
22:45:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1
22:46:17 <vikCake[m]> jwinterm[m]: Yeah we love that.  Both seasons.  Quality TV. 
22:47:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lincoln lawyer 
22:47:28 <jwinterm[m]> Katla is a pretty good weird series on Netflix, also only 8 or 9 episodes
22:47:31 <plowsof11> monero means money 😆
22:47:48 <jwinterm[m]> How much I like series is clearly becoming dependent on how many episodes it has lol
22:47:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> I2pradio
22:48:23 <vikCake[m]> plowsof11: I already live this 
22:48:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Had to laugh at my own joke there 
22:49:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think we have consensus 
23:28:13 <anhdres[m]> plowsof: hi there, I was about to make an official progress report on Friday, believe it or not. Will do on Monday. Short version is I lost the first month for some unexpected family issues, but then I've been just writing. Of course it was harder than I thought, but I'm 50% or more done on the text. Garden is divided in 3 paths, one path is done, second is 5 pages in.
23:29:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof was asking if Friday was the best dat
23:29:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Day*
23:35:59 <monerobull[m]1> <anhdres[m]> "plowsof: hi there, I was about..." <- Just use ChatGPT /s
23:36:54 <monerobull[m]1> <vikCake[m]> "What movie or show should sunali..." <- I just watched the first episode of nagatoro s2
23:37:22 <monerobull[m]1> So far i can state that the music in s1 was way better