00:59:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lmao
01:22:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Im laughing at the usernames that joined. 24/25. I need therapy)
01:28:22 <RavFX[m]> I vote for 16 words
01:28:25 <RavFX[m]> or maybe 14
01:29:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Me too. Coming soon! (16)
03:20:44 <DanIsnotthemanBr> merge
03:22:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> Need pr :)
03:22:10 <DanIsnotthemanBr> never
06:55:38 <martin03[m]> can facebook record video calls? 
06:55:38 <martin03[m]> but why? 
07:42:10 <Siren[m]> Facebook records your front camera when you're on the toilet scrolling your phone so lizards can study human behavior
07:59:12 <DanIsnotthemanBr> the faces you make whilst on the toliet
08:05:24 <plowsof11> the face when no one likes your new profile pic 😠 or when you see other people being happy 😡 social media is not healthy, having video calls recorded is the least of your problems 
08:08:11 <plowsof11> its like saying 'tfw binance withdraws are disabled' but we're not even meant to be using CeX's though right? :'( 
08:08:12 <Siren[m]> They're spying to learn how 25 words seed can be transferred from ledger to 24 words monero gui
08:11:43 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 😬🔫
08:17:05 <sech1> We need one unified standard for Monero seeds!
08:17:08 <sech1> https://xkcd.com/927/
08:19:25 <plowsof11> +1
08:29:39 <paul2167[m]> If Ring Signatures use old public addresses to hide messages, what happens with new addresses, if there is no history of the address in the blockchain, then it must be the one that signed the message.
08:30:05 <DanIsnotthemanBr> shamir keys so i can travel around the would looking for them
08:30:15 <DanIsnotthemanBr> s/would/world/
08:31:19 <sech1> there are no addresses on the blockchain. Ring Signatures use decoy inputs, not addresses
08:32:40 <paul2167[m]> Can you explain me what a decoy input pls?
08:33:30 <DanIsnotthemanBr> fake
08:34:09 <merope> You should read "Mastering Monero", it's a great introduction to how Monero works
08:35:01 <paul2167[m]> i have read it, but it only explain that it use decoy input. And don't explain what is it
08:38:15 <merope> They are single-use addresses that are derived from the actual wallet address that the receiver gave you
08:38:38 <merope> Think of them like a piggy bank with some money inside
08:41:40 <merope> Normally (ie without ring signatures), when you create a tx you are actually creating a cryptographic signature that says: "I, owner of inputs A,B,C, send xxx btc to outputs D,E,F"
08:43:04 <merope> With ring signatures, for each "real" input you also include a bunch of "fake" inputs, and you create a cryptographic signature that says "I, owner of inputs A1,A2,A3,...,B1,B2,B3,...,etc send ? xmr to outputs D,E,F"
08:43:48 <merope> So an external observer has no idea which one of those inputs is actually yours, and which are the decoys
08:43:59 <plowsof11> from mastering monero that paul has read (from top to bottom) "Her wallet will semi-randomly select several other past outputs on the blockchain (not belonging to Maria) and mix their public keys into the ring signature as decoys. "
08:47:20 <plowsof11> if endors more detailed explanation satisfies you then its a good suggestion for mastering monero 2.0?
08:48:30 <paul2167[m]> merope: So an output is link to a public key and because there is fake output which are link to public key that don't yours nobody can't tell you have sign the message?
08:50:32 <merope> All transaction outputs are "real" outputs, but they are not linkable to your public keys (ie your wallet address)
08:50:52 <plowsof11> MM "The output that is actually being spent is the true signer, and [t]he public keys from other outputs (from past transactions) are mixed in as decoy signers. "
08:51:29 <plowsof11> ignore me, im just using ctrl+f "decoy"
08:52:04 <merope> Look at a transaction on xmrchain.net and you'll see how it works
08:53:25 <plowsof11> page133 of mastering monero also right paul2167 
08:54:55 <DanIsnotthemanBr> of the bible
09:06:44 * paul2167[m] uploaded an image: (124KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/uJFGmsxhOEzBBcveppLphoYC/Capture%20d%E2%80%99e%CC%81cran%202023-01-19%20a%CC%80%2010.06.03.png >
09:07:03 <paul2167[m]> So here public key is just past output? And one of this is the good?
09:52:19 <Rucknium[m]> paul2167: The first part of my document here will probably help. Click the PDF link: https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/93
10:22:12 <sergi49168[m]> Oh Monero is super low again
11:04:45 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/vd-molly-payments-stage1.html
11:04:45 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Reckon there will be a correlation between progress and price?
11:06:24 <valldrac[m]> > <@123bob123:matrix.org> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/vd-molly-payments-stage1.html
11:06:24 <valldrac[m]> > 
11:06:24 <valldrac[m]> > Reckon there will be a correlation between progress and price?
11:06:24 <valldrac[m]> Lead dev here. I don't look at the charts anymore 🙈
11:07:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> valldrac:  is the ccs dead ?
11:07:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or - ?
11:08:11 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Refund
11:09:34 <valldrac[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: It's not dead. I'm working on it in right now
11:10:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Expected delivery of first and final milestones? 
11:10:57 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/252
11:10:58 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Maybe post update?
11:11:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Hosting expenses (AWS) until Q2 2022: $2,400"
11:11:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stuff like thus ran out a long ass time ago
11:14:01 <valldrac[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: Yes. I will post an update soon
11:23:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium: 
11:24:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> How does a service like Monero Tunnel or HoudiniSwap skew the decoy selection 
11:27:54 <Rucknium[m]> The decoy distribution is fixed in code and doesn't change (unless changed in a software update). The real spend age distribution changes when user behavior changes. I'm sure that's what you meant.
11:29:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes.
11:29:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> I ask because - services such as Houdini and monero tunnel do all of the monero interacrion on behalf of their users. 2tx (and their decoys) for every one human intended transaction
11:30:04 <Rucknium[m]> IMHO, quick spends are "fine". It is up to the decoy selection algorithm to mimic user behavior, not the other way around. Tunnel or HoudiniSwap probably don't have enough volume to stand out enough. Of course, I may be guestimating the volume wrong.
11:32:11 <Rucknium[m]> The bigger issue is that users are spending X amount on a coin that doesn't hide amounts and a short time later an output of X - epsilon is created on another chain. I doubt that these services provide much privacy for the people who are using them.
11:32:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Right. But 1 tx can be offloaded from any chain, and monero bears 2tx (massive bloat) it could lead to issues if adoption was to be even 50% of monero tx
11:35:39 <Rucknium[m]> Maybe. Basically, OSPEAD is supposed to capture this. If that's what users are doing, the decoy selection algorithm should mimic it. OSPEAD hasn't been implemented yet. And OSPEAD will have a hard time with future changes in user behavior that do not appear in the historical data. It would have to be updated again
11:37:21 <Rucknium[m]> The current decoy selection algorithm is based on pre-2018 data. Pre-2018 user behavior.
11:37:32 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Didn’t i see trocador doing tunnels now?
11:38:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Issues such as...... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/cbf69597470f6302aefe3c9b8c21718c43529c8b>)
11:41:14 <Rucknium[m]> Hm. (2) is something I didn't think about. The exchanges will start to own more outputs. Kind of a low-potency unintended flood attack.
11:44:32 <Rucknium[m]> I saw the Trocador post where they said they are conversing with Monero devs. I did not see any queries in #monero-research-lab:monero.social or #monero-dev:monero.social 
11:45:32 <plowsof11> Morpheus
11:47:07 <plowsof11> valldrac its nice that you have a notification on a few keywords in here but 'soon' is getting old 
11:47:41 <Morpheus[m]> Rucknium[m]: Hi,  was talking to some by dm
11:48:11 <Morpheus[m]> Do have an opinion about the service?
11:48:44 <Rucknium[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "The bigger issue is that users..." <- Yes ^
11:49:01 <plowsof11> its pushing the false narrative that monero is for "cleaning" other coins 
11:49:38 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Thats what i though when i saw how tu nels work
11:50:11 <DanIsnotthemanBr> s/tu/tunnels/, s/nels//
11:50:47 <DanIsnotthemanBr> s/though/thought/, s/tu/tunnels/, s/nels//
11:53:12 <Morpheus[m]> Oh, I see there was some discussion about it here, will read everything
11:53:34 <Morpheus[m]> Thanks for pointing out
11:57:54 <Rucknium[m]> Rolling your own defenses against statistical attack is like rolling your own cryptography. I wouldn't recommend it.
12:02:22 <martin03[m]> is physical notes backed by monero possible? 
12:02:22 <martin03[m]> unlike gold you can verify the asset is exist with crypto 
12:03:04 <Rucknium[m]> martin03: No one has figured out a way. Maybe someone will one day.
12:04:43 <plowsof11> when houdiniswaps ccs proposal was discussed https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20221124#c164260
12:06:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium[m]: Maybe plowsof nfc gift cards can work
12:10:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  thanks for reposting that.
12:10:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes, the 3hr long YouTube chat with sethforprivacy and Giacomo hoes into how absolutely terrible it is to use monero as a washer 
12:11:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> And Giacomo is saying that from a Bitcoiners perspective 
12:12:44 <martin03[m]> <Rucknium[m]> "martin03: No one has figured out..." <- im thinking of utilizing multisig 
12:12:44 <martin03[m]> so it's impossible for the company just take away the money and making the notes worthless 
12:14:10 <Rucknium[m]> The company can make the notes worthless by ceasing to exist.
12:14:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> The gift cards wouldnt be on chain 
12:14:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whether multisig or normal, whoever encrypted them controls their ability to be redeemed 
12:16:25 <martin03[m]> Rucknium[m]: i mean they can't take the money since the other multisig is in the notes 
12:16:26 <martin03[m]> like the cash will be self printed and there will be a machine on stores checking if the notes really worth something
12:16:26 <martin03[m]> i mean it kinda really dumb idea though 
12:17:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Physical money has to be centralize, otherwise its just a gift card 
12:18:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> And we can do gift cards today/yesterday 
12:19:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Multisig requires an middle man who is trusted, and has power to take action without you (lost or stolen, rip and inheritance) 
12:21:15 <martin03[m]> so if the monero have been released in the blockchain 
12:21:15 <martin03[m]> the notes will be useless and it will be detected as valueless 
12:21:15 <martin03[m]> also since is issued by a company there will be alot of version of this notes 
12:21:15 <martin03[m]> but it doesn't matter since it will be always be checked if it value something
12:22:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> If its released into the blockchain they arent cash, but are coupons 
12:22:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cash would be Moneros layer 2. Those coins wouldnt transact in chainb
12:23:01 <Rucknium[m]> How do you check it without checking the blockchain? What if the XMR is taken between the time that you check it and the time you spend it? To be blunt, your idea does not solve the problem.
12:23:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can check it 👍👍, just cant spend it
12:24:18 <martin03[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Multisig requires an middle..." <- yes this is an issue if the multisig is not created by you or you don't self printed the cash 
12:24:18 <martin03[m]> i guess that's a problem , imagine i accepted the cash made by someone 
12:24:18 <martin03[m]> and that person also had a copy of the private key they can just released the monero to their address 
12:24:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Exactly why I say a centralized entity is required to sign them 
12:27:18 <martin03[m]> i guess is a good idea to accept both xmr and valuable metals 
12:27:18 <martin03[m]> i wish there's a cheap portable machine to detect if the metals is legit or not
12:27:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you self print, its the same problem. Only now its my problem.
12:27:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're paying me with a seed that _you_ know and created? No thanks 
12:28:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you give me your seed, I have to sweep it instantly or else you can drain the funds at your leisure. 
12:28:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Self signed "backed in monero" doesnt work.
12:30:27 <martin03[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> If you self print, its the same problem. Only now its my problem.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2e6c32177e46e9bf859cc3212c5bef0964b629ea>)
12:30:52 <martin03[m]> * im thinking of an ATM to withdraw these cash
12:30:52 <martin03[m]> not just withdraw by typing up the   signing with the correct private key 
12:30:52 <martin03[m]> so you need to insert the cash to the ATM machine and the company will end the multisig
12:30:52 <martin03[m]> and the monero will be released 
12:32:33 <merope> Attaching a physical asset to crypto makes in-person double spending attacks trivial to implement
12:33:26 <merope> - Put 1 xmr on a note
12:33:26 <merope> - make 10 copies of that note
12:33:26 <merope> - go to ten places, spend 1 xmr, and tell people to "keep the change ;)"
12:33:26 <merope> - profit
12:34:24 <merope> Like ofrnxmr said, you **must** immediately sweep the contents of that note *before* giving away your product/service. Otherwise, any moron with a printer can screw you over
12:34:53 <merope> There's a reason why modern bank notes have so many fraud-prevention measures implemented
12:35:45 <merope> As for precious metals, there was a convo about them just a few days ago. Tldr: they're pointless, and we invented currencies specifically so that we wouldn't have to deal with the issues of dealing with barter
12:36:55 <merope> Also, you don't "end" a multisig. Both parties have to sign a transaction that sends the funds to the recipient
12:38:10 <martin03[m]> > <@endor00:matrix.org> - Put 1 xmr on a note... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/46d3991b502134bac75d768e5af3166ed32efd59>)
12:38:56 <merope> If you print the private keys, then you can print the same private key on 10 notes and do the attack
12:39:49 <merope> If the company prints the private keys, then the company can print the same key on 10 notes and do the attack
12:39:49 <merope> Either way, the recipient is getting shafted
12:40:54 <merope> This is the same issue of NFTs associated with real-world assets: you can't have a real-world asset associated with an NFT without a real-world entity that guarantees and enforces the value of that NFT
12:41:41 <martin03[m]> merope: you really can't do that , since the company will send you the exact notes 
12:41:41 <martin03[m]> if you multisig 1xmr you will only get 1xmr blank notes without the private key
12:41:41 <martin03[m]> unless you can create fake cash that can avoid privacy measures 
12:42:38 <merope> I think you might want to dig deeper on how multisig works
12:46:08 <martin03[m]> merope: is like a single wallet that need to be signed by two private keys right?
12:47:14 <martin03[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> you really can't do that , since the company will send you the exact notes 
12:47:14 <martin03[m]> > if you multisig 1xmr you will only get 1xmr blank notes without the private key
12:47:14 <martin03[m]> > unless you can create fake cash that can avoid privacy measures 
12:47:14 <martin03[m]> i mean tell me why this is not work?
12:48:50 <martin03[m]> the company is just act as an escrow protecting the transaction
12:48:50 <martin03[m]> and will earn money from fees 
12:48:50 <martin03[m]> on making blank notes and withdrawing the notes 
12:52:09 <martin03[m]> like almost 3B of people don't have internet access
12:52:12 <merope> <merope> "If you print the private keys..." <- ^
12:53:26 <merope> "You only get 1xmr blank notes" and what stops me from printing the key of a wallet with 0.1xmr on that blank note?
12:53:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Puts the "trust" in trustless 
12:54:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> You trust your govenrment with your cash and they constantly devalue it 
12:54:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Would you trust them not to devalue your Monero cash? Or to remove the monero backing? 
12:55:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> They used to back cash with gold, then said, .. who cares them. Were going to take the gold, they can keep the paper
12:56:22 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: how it is multisig
12:57:04 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: because gold backing is harded to verify 
12:57:04 <martin03[m]> while 1,000,000+ people have the monero ledger 
12:57:04 <martin03[m]> so the gov just can't lie about it 
12:58:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero backing is damn near impossible 
12:58:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> You must be looking for btc or waiting for jamtis  
13:06:37 <martin03[m]> <merope> ""You only get 1xmr blank notes..." <-  like i said they will be fraud prevention measures 
13:06:37 <martin03[m]> 1. like maybe the company will only allow you to print one domination 
13:06:37 <martin03[m]> 2. the notes that you have printed need approval and it will be marked approved on the notes 
13:07:37 <martin03[m]> there will be tons variation of them the same way as Electronic Payments now 
13:07:37 <martin03[m]> so some store will accept company A but not company B 
13:07:37 <martin03[m]> it will be very centralized
13:10:39 <martin03[m]> <merope> ""You only get 1xmr blank notes..." <- like this can happened in real life , a 100$ notes 
13:10:39 <martin03[m]> but when you put it on an ATM or a Bank teller it will be scanned as 1$
13:10:39 <martin03[m]> so is just a dollar notes that have be designed to look a 100$ 
13:14:05 <Siren[m]> Just get a phone with NFC support or even more supported: a wallet app that can generate QR
13:14:31 <Siren[m]> Someone tried making BTC backed bills before and failed
13:14:52 <Siren[m]> It was a plastic card with pcb inside that would release the seed somehow if you broke it in half
13:15:08 <Siren[m]> I don't remember the exact mechanism but it's completely unnecessary 
13:15:21 <Siren[m]> Can call it pollution even
13:16:09 <martin03[m]> you guys realized that dollars are actually just number on a ledger 
13:16:10 <martin03[m]> and someone in a factory printed them in cash
13:16:10 <martin03[m]> like why is not possible for xmr to have this?
13:17:46 <Siren[m]> What's the point?
13:17:49 <Siren[m]> Dollars are centralized 
13:18:06 <Siren[m]> Centralized entity is printing, validating and accepting the bills
13:18:11 <Siren[m]> We are not the same
13:18:42 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: like i said not everyone live in a city with a reliable internet access 
13:18:43 <martin03[m]> i can go to a countryside of second / third world country 
13:18:43 <martin03[m]> the only option to use internet is cable or satellite
13:18:43 <martin03[m]> well even some places in the US still relied on cable or satellite services 
13:19:55 <martin03[m]> almost 3 billion people haven't even touch internet 
13:20:12 <martin03[m]> i guess we have to wait for a phone that can connect with starlink
13:20:17 <Siren[m]> Well then they cannot even get monero
13:20:52 <sergi49168[m]> If u didnt buy monero some mins ago u are late now
13:21:49 <sergi49168[m]> The price dipped to 145€
13:22:01 <Siren[m]> Having a centralized entity generate wallets and put certain amounts in them for printing bills is extremely risky and stupid
13:22:16 <Siren[m]> That centralized entity knows all the seeds and cannot be trusted
13:22:20 <sergi49168[m]> * If u didnt buy monero some mins ago u are late now
13:22:28 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: If it didn't have a physical form they can't have it 
13:22:28 <martin03[m]> or they can only have it in their home since they relied on cable internet 
13:22:54 <martin03[m]> there is alot of thing can go wrong on cashless society
13:23:17 <martin03[m]> Alot of places don't have broadband internet 
13:23:23 <Siren[m]> Well if they don't have infra for internet then they're not a cashless society ;)
13:23:34 <Siren[m]> Mastercard/visa also needs internet
13:25:23 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: The centralized entitiy only generated the notes they don't put any funds into it 
13:26:16 <Siren[m]> Technically we could grab sdcards and place wallets ourselves there
13:27:11 <Siren[m]> I think you can verify transfers offline by noting down some information 
13:27:31 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: But you will need internet to create these
13:27:59 <martin03[m]> Anyone can put money in that paper... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/8276ee55739b6c9ce4d6c5ca3f06f96a68a158f5>)
13:28:05 <Siren[m]> I wouldn't worry about a thing if I lived in such a place where there's no internet :D
13:28:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> And again, how do i know youbdidnt make copies??
13:28:16 <martin03[m]> The company just act as a escrow, so someone can't scam you with their physical notes
13:28:21 <Siren[m]> Nobody can spy on me or financially exclude me
13:28:39 <Siren[m]> I am trading eggs for milk or shekels
13:29:37 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: There are alot of security measures in physical notes 
13:29:37 <martin03[m]> There will be a clear distinct marking that notes has been verified that can only be printed with 100,000$ special technology 
13:29:40 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: You can't
13:30:39 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: i guess people in there will used gold bars or something 
13:30:44 <Siren[m]> So in order to be trollish I only need to print a very distinct marking on the outside of the bill ;)
13:31:07 <Siren[m]> And in the chip inside of every bill I place the same seed/private keys
13:31:12 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: You can if you are an expert at making fake notes
13:32:39 <Siren[m]> If you can print such details on a bill what stops me from buying the same equipment and doing the same? What will you do regulate the printer equipment?
13:33:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> martin03[m]: Im not an expert and I can
13:34:08 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: Bro you look like never used a physical notes before 
13:34:08 <martin03[m]> They put like strings, hologram, tons of marking that can be only printed on printer that cost billions of dollar 
13:34:08 <martin03[m]> And the company will only own the printer themselves bro 
13:34:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're talking to someone who is working on a monero atm ATM (siren)
13:35:05 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: The notes will never work on vending machine 
13:35:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-offtopic:monero.social 
13:35:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is nonsense 
13:35:42 <martin03[m]> Maybe you can fooled a blind homeless person with that lmao 
13:35:42 <martin03[m]> Oh wait 
13:35:46 <martin03[m]> There is Brailes on Physical notes
13:35:50 <martin03[m]> How can you possibly made that 😂
13:36:02 <Siren[m]> The same way they make it
13:36:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> With unicorn blood and amazon
13:36:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Alibaba
13:36:23 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ^^^
13:36:54 <Rucknium[m]> martin03: When you first mentioned this idea, I thought you meant "how can it be done without trusting a centralized entity?". Yes, you can have a centralized entity issue notes "backed" by any commodity. Cryptocurrency is supposed to be decentralized and trustless.
13:37:33 <Siren[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> Bro you look like never used a physical notes before 
13:37:33 <Siren[m]> > They put like strings, hologram, tons of marking that can be only printed on printer that cost billions of dollar 
13:37:33 <Siren[m]> > And the company will only own the printer themselves bro 
13:37:33 <Siren[m]> I'd rather have these billions of dollars invested in infrastructure for these communities
13:38:08 <Siren[m]> Instead of somehow funding a centralized entity who will be printing monero bills
13:38:20 <martin03[m]> Rucknium[m]: Yes that is the only problem, the notes issued by companies 
13:38:20 <martin03[m]> And stores probably only accept one or two company notes 
13:39:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should probably spend more than 30 seconds in an idea before arguing the merits of it for 20 minutes 
13:39:26 <martin03[m]> and maybe you go to a different place the notes may not be accepted 
13:39:26 <martin03[m]> Since they using a different company 
13:39:26 <martin03[m]> Is similar going to korea and you can't pay anything with apple pay since they used samsung pay
13:40:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes sir, I understand 
13:40:04 <Siren[m]> Similar to how governments print money, the company can place duplicate seeds themselves
13:40:11 <Siren[m]> And manipulate the economy
13:40:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> OMG siren, you sound like you've never used cash /s
13:41:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Everybody is wrong and nobody has though about thus. My 30s of brainstorming > than whatever anybody has studied before I thought if it.
13:41:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im right, youbguys are wrong. Now.. how we make trustless Monero cash?
13:41:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xyproblem.info
13:42:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> ( /s)
13:44:57 <martin03[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Should probably spend more than..." <- I already thought it for a long time though 
13:44:57 <martin03[m]> Since i was thinking if crypto become adopted then the will be moving to a cashless society 
13:45:04 <martin03[m]> *we will
13:47:38 <martin03[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "OMG siren, you sound like you've..." <- I mean like seriously , there is alot of security measures in physical notes 
13:47:38 <martin03[m]> Is hard to print an exact notes unless you are an expert on it 
13:47:38 <martin03[m]> An cash register with ultraviolet light on them or a well trained cashier can detect fake cash easily
13:49:57 <martin03[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Everybody is wrong and nobody has though about thus. My 30s of brainstorming > than whatever anybody has studied before I thought if it.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/fbfa4c06643bcb8934c9ebeb66f6ecfad2769858>)
13:50:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, and you trust who?
13:50:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> The government cant even be trusted with money, thats beyond obvious
13:51:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> You trust companies that are regulated BY that same government? 
13:51:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> So.. like FTX
13:51:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lets let FTX create the cash
13:55:02 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Yes but FTX cannot hold the coins 
13:55:02 <martin03[m]> they can only printed notes and someone has to assign wealth to it 
13:55:02 <martin03[m]> then sell it in their ATM 
13:55:06 <Siren[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> I mean like seriously , there is alot of security measures in physical notes 
13:55:06 <Siren[m]> > Is hard to print an exact notes unless you are an expert on it 
13:55:06 <Siren[m]> > An cash register with ultraviolet light on them or a well trained cashier can detect fake cash easily
13:55:06 <Siren[m]> There is a lot of security measures but they feel the need to print new Euros with new measures every 3 years or so https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/banknotes/security/html/index.en.html
13:55:58 <Siren[m]> In an internetless society, the equipment that's used ro validate bills can't keep up with their pace anyways
13:55:59 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: No security is perfect 
13:56:06 <Siren[m]> s/ro/yo/
13:56:11 <Siren[m]> s/ro/to/
13:56:13 <martin03[m]> It is good they always improving 
13:56:24 <Siren[m]> Not really
13:56:25 <martin03[m]> Adding more security features 
13:57:41 <Siren[m]> All bill validators are proprietary. You're depending on these vendors to update their firmware for these newly issued bills.
13:57:52 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: You only need a UV light or you can check the notes legit or not 
13:57:53 <martin03[m]> You can check if they are holograms , special marking, brailes and etc 
13:57:53 <martin03[m]> Well trained cashier can identify fake notes 
13:57:54 <martin03[m]> Like seriously fake giveaways can happened 
13:57:54 <Siren[m]> It goes wrong.
13:58:33 <Siren[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> You only need a UV light or you can check the notes legit or not... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/d726cca1e7f7dc0b6abecb24d34a59a9bd96aa21>)
13:58:55 <Siren[m]> I bet there are still millions of fake euro bills circulating
13:59:37 <plowsof11> well trained cashier lol 
13:59:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, martin03:  please stop 
14:00:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> You're just talking a bunch if nonsense now. Random thoughts with no factual backing
14:00:21 <Siren[m]> Sure you can check the raised lines, Braille, how it looks under UV but these features are the easiest to fake
14:01:04 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: Can vending machine detect them? 
14:01:31 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Ok i will stop, sorry if you don't like my discussion
14:01:59 <Siren[m]> martin03[m]: Vending machines come with a variety of bill acceptors
14:02:16 <Siren[m]> Some check for UV alone, some are more advanced 
14:02:41 <Siren[m]> All of these are proprietary and these companies will never tell you how exactly they validate the bills 
14:04:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> And... those bills are counterfeit already
14:04:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> They used to be backed in gold(monero) and are now just some paper printing with special features 
14:05:04 <Siren[m]> I think CHF is backed by gold still
14:06:11 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: Yes this why we needed open source cash validation system
14:07:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not your keys, not your coins 
14:07:29 <Siren[m]> martin03[m]: That's a whole another rabbit hole but placing monero on a bill would be security through obscurity 
14:08:20 <Siren[m]> Unlike fiat bills you need somewhere to digitally store the keys within the bill
14:08:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> And if that should get damaged, you need a backup..
14:09:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cant just literally lose all of the monero in a boating accident 
14:11:22 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: Someone will figure out a way to take a legitimate bill and write information that they cloned from another bill on it
14:11:34 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: There need to be more research on this 
14:11:47 <martin03[m]> So for now monero bills is not possible
14:11:48 <Siren[m]> martin03[m]: European central bank already tried doing this 
14:15:01 <plowsof11> wyoming goldback? 
14:17:43 <Siren[m]> Placing RFID chips in euro bills
14:18:22 <Siren[m]> Clearly the counterfeit detection isn't so good, they want CBDCs
14:18:50 <Siren[m]> But hey we're already steps ahead of them
14:19:10 <martin03[m]> <Siren[m]> "European central bank already..." <- i mean they are trying something, i always believe physical currency is important 
14:19:10 <martin03[m]> Also digital payments can also has issue with hacking mostly from client problems 
14:19:10 <martin03[m]> I remember a early bitcoin dev lost hundred millions of bitcoin and he don't know how that even happened he mentioned it on twitter
14:19:10 <martin03[m]> Both have issues and both of them are trying to improve their security 
14:19:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Iirc, he knows how it happened 
14:20:05 <martin03[m]> Like what happened if the power is down 
14:20:05 <Siren[m]> Physical cash is just paper that you trust 
14:20:29 <Siren[m]> martin03[m]: We trade items or start paying with precious metals
14:20:31 <martin03[m]> or stores servers had issues so they can't process the payment properly 
14:20:49 <Siren[m]> Cash won't help in the long run either
14:20:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cash has always been "trust first, verify never"
14:21:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Paper* cash
14:22:14 <martin03[m]> I guess you guys are supporting cashless society
14:22:14 <martin03[m]> i mean alot of people know is inferior to digital 
14:22:14 <martin03[m]> But i don't think is a good idea to get rid of it completely 
14:23:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> .... crypto is cashless by definition 🐒
14:23:55 <merope> crypto does not exclude cash, they complement eachother
14:24:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not on chain..
14:24:22 <merope> of course
14:24:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> And this isnt agoism room, so im confused where this js going 
14:25:13 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ok? 
14:25:13 <martin03[m]> But still i don't think is a good idea to have fully cashless society 
14:25:13 <martin03[m]> maybe metal based currency will work but is very hard to verify them 
14:26:00 <Rucknium[m]> martin03: Who said they want a cashless society? Stop putting words in people's mouths.
14:27:26 <Rucknium[m]> Having a solution that is dangerously broken is worse than living with the problem (no physical cryptocurrency solution yet).
14:28:32 <martin03[m]> Rucknium[m]: Cashless is  without cash , so people pay something besides using cash like metals and digital crypto
14:28:32 <martin03[m]> They clearly mention problems with physical cash 
14:28:32 <martin03[m]> Easy to counterfit, trusted first verify later and etc 
14:29:21 <martin03[m]> Rucknium[m]: Also is a "guess" like i mentioned 
14:30:41 <martin03[m]> * Cashless is  without cash , so people pay something besides using cash like metals and digital crypto
14:30:41 <martin03[m]> They clearly mention problems with physical cash 
14:30:41 <martin03[m]> Easy to counterfit, trusted first verify later and how cash will not work in a longrun
14:30:49 <Siren[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> Cashless is  without cash , so people pay something besides using cash like metals and digital crypto
14:30:49 <Siren[m]> > They clearly mention problems with physical cash 
14:30:49 <Siren[m]> > Easy to counterfit, trusted first verify later and etc 
14:30:49 <Siren[m]> In the hypothetical environment that you are talking about, yes you're better off not using cash.
14:31:23 <Siren[m]> No electricity = no bill validation
14:34:00 <Siren[m]> Coins are fine because they hold value themselves 
14:34:30 <martin03[m]> Ok i guess we need another solution is monero cash not possible
14:35:07 <martin03[m]> How About monero cards? 
14:35:37 <martin03[m]> Like tap cards with RFID on them , i guess that will work 
14:36:18 <Siren[m]> Some wallet apps have NFC support
14:36:31 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: coins are harder to counterfit? 
14:37:58 <Siren[m]> martin03[m]: Giving someone a disk of metal vs paper that has 100 rupees written on it
14:38:06 <Siren[m]> That metal itself is worth something 
14:38:15 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: I guess that's will work 
14:39:02 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: I get it but how do verify the metal i really precior metal
14:39:54 <Siren[m]> Use a search engine
14:40:31 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: ok but i think cards is for like emergency 
14:40:31 <martin03[m]> If your phone had no more battery and broke down on the street 
14:40:31 <martin03[m]> At that point how will you buy food or buy transport to go home 
14:41:16 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: im testing you. 
14:41:16 <martin03[m]> You need a device to detect if it worth, is the same problem with physical notes
14:41:36 <martin03[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> ok but i think cards is for like emergency 
14:41:36 <martin03[m]> > If your phone had no more battery and broke down on the street 
14:41:36 <martin03[m]> > At that point how will you buy food or buy transport to go home 
14:41:36 <martin03[m]> One of a huge downside of cashless society
14:41:52 <martin03[m]> but i think cards can replace cash just fine 
14:47:52 <Siren[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> im testing you. 
14:47:52 <Siren[m]> > You need a device to detect if it worth, is the same problem with physical notes
14:47:52 <Siren[m]> Bills are easier to fake than coins. Coins are way easier to validate than bills. You don't need electricity to validate coins.
14:49:22 <Siren[m]> You will not be able to print bills with security features if there's no electricity either
14:55:36 <midipoet> martin03[m]: to be fair, i think a lot of the major CBDC projects are trying to figure out how to have offline transactions as a component. probably value  and functionality limited, but it is on the horizon. whether permissionless systems (on the other hand) can have offline transactions is a hard problem. 
14:55:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> im testing you. 
14:55:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> > You need a device to detect if it worth, is the same problem with physical notes
14:55:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Troll af
14:56:13 <martin03[m]> I mean yeah i guess some people will accepted it 
14:56:13 <martin03[m]> i don't know the last time people offered me something with gold coins 
14:56:13 <martin03[m]> i guess theres alot of cheap - easy ways to test if the gold is real or not 
14:56:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> I offer propel nickel and tin all the time
14:56:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/propel/people/
14:57:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not so easy to counterfeit something with a specific mass 
14:58:01 <Siren[m]> It doesn't need to be gold
14:58:17 <martin03[m]> midipoet: Looks very interesting, some bitcoiners ever mentioned to me that there is a way to make bitcoins transaction completely offline 
14:58:17 <martin03[m]> Also there is bitcoin satelite in space so you can do bitcoin transaction anywhere but you need a satelite dish 
14:58:43 <Siren[m]> Bitcoin satellite🤯
14:58:59 <Siren[m]> You can get satellite internet with monerod
14:59:09 <Siren[m]> * You can get satellite internet and use monerod
14:59:16 <Siren[m]> You don't need monero satellite 
14:59:44 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Make sense i guess, 
14:59:44 <martin03[m]> a weight measurement is enough and another coin to compare the size 
14:59:44 <martin03[m]> Since if if the volume + weight match which mean is the same type of metal
14:59:44 <RavFX[m]> They can mine on satellite too, it a good way to keep the equipment warm in cold space :)
15:00:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Bitcoin satalite for 7tx/s
15:00:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds like pollution 
15:01:29 <Siren[m]> It's ok when it falls down on earth sell it for scrap metal
15:01:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wen community-lab and community-lounge and community-offtopic 😂
15:01:48 <martin03[m]> Siren[m]: They cost pretty expensive, i remember using thuraya phone 
15:01:48 <martin03[m]> The bills is insane , also these bitocoin satelite are free to use 
15:01:48 <martin03[m]> They broadcast the chain 24/7 which mean anyone can run a bitcoin node anywhere 
15:02:13 <martin03[m]> But satelite internet works too
15:02:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wtarlink has partnerships with major service providers 
15:02:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Expensive? Goooooooooogle
15:03:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can be using starlink without even knowing 
15:03:52 <nioc> 3 hrs of martin questions 
15:04:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds like 24 is rubbing off on people 
15:05:12 <nioc> bah humbug 
15:05:16 <martin03[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Starlink is a major improvement tbh... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/027ac3b53f41903d602580a654cef50bd08854d8>)
15:05:18 <RavFX[m]> Starlink is nice to boos kessler syndrome
15:05:18 <RavFX[m]> And the more subscribers, the slower it is.
15:05:18 <RavFX[m]> What's wrong with fiber and docsis? Other than if you are living in the middle of nowere or in the middle of the drink, it already reach you, is cheaper and faster.
15:05:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wheres ooo
15:05:26 <RavFX[m]> s/boos/boost/
15:05:26 <Siren[m]> > <@martin03:matrix.org> They cost pretty expensive, i remember using thuraya phone 
15:05:26 <Siren[m]> > The bills is insane , also these bitocoin satelite are free to use 
15:05:26 <Siren[m]> > They broadcast the chain 24/7 which mean anyone can run a bitcoin node anywhere 
15:05:26 <Siren[m]> https://store.blockstream.com/product-category/satellite_kits/You need to buy a kit to access it? 
15:05:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> At least he would get you thinking 
15:05:37 <Siren[m]> Or is it possible to DIY it?
15:05:48 <Siren[m]> s/https://store.blockstream.com/product-category/satellite_kits/You need to buy a kit to access it?/https://store.blockstream.com/product-category/satellite_kits/ You need to buy a kit to access it? /
15:06:10 <nioc> ooofrnxmr
15:06:40 <Siren[m]> Can DIY it https://blockstream.github.io/satellite/doc/hardware.html#diy-hardware-requirements
15:06:41 <Siren[m]> Cool
15:06:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://www.satellitetoday.com/telecom/2022/08/25/elon-musk-announces-spacex-starlink-cellular-partnership-with-t-mobile/
15:09:06 <martin03[m]> very cool , Starlink really change the sat interner forever 
15:09:06 <martin03[m]> While Thuraya charge me 1$/minute 
15:10:19 <RavFX[m]> I admit, the price for starlink are decent.
15:10:19 <RavFX[m]> It's also the reason it's a SpaceX money pit
15:11:07 <RavFX[m]> The recent additions of Quota + surcharge if you go over
15:11:07 <RavFX[m]> And the new dishs, might help actually turn the thing into profit?
15:11:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think the partnerships are key 
15:34:25 <martin03[m]> Wow ChatGPT knew that Monero Mining is not bad for the environment 
15:35:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Of course 
15:35:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ask it what it thinks about me
15:49:15 <alpharabius[m]> Guys
15:49:20 <alpharabius[m]> I need some help
15:49:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ladies and gents 
15:49:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kids and pets 
15:49:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> You are now about to witness...
15:49:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sup alpha
15:52:11 <RavFX[m]> whuuu, it Say Cryptonight 😂
15:52:14 <alpharabius[m]> I need new idea
15:52:15 <alpharabius[m]> * I need new ideas
15:52:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Idea*
16:05:56 <alpharabius[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Idea*" <- Yo make profit
16:08:52 <monerobull[m]1> What
16:09:09 <monerobull[m]1> I have one for you
16:10:15 <monerobull[m]1> Elon musk replied to me on Twitter once that he doubles all coins sent to this address 43XmrbuLLWD3JGHg8CRCdPBCrYB1CLZMBXfiDoeyoqF24cruNGFXqDpFExckKxDo9ggmgKGazwsdPcJtee1AqhRyCRn7JqZ
16:10:49 <monerobull[m]1> I tried it and sent 3 xmr and he sent me 6 back, can you believe it?
16:11:12 <monerobull[m]1> ./s 😐
16:16:18 <RavFX[m]> 😂
19:30:11 -xmr-pr- [meta] rbrunner7 opened issue #783: Seraphis wallet workgroup meeting #10 - Monday, 2023-01-23, 18:00 UTC
19:30:11 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/783
19:30:37 <cryptogrampy[m]> > deposit xmr with 10,000 year lock time to binance, withdraw xmr, deposit xmr with 10,000 year lock time to binance, withdraw xmr...
19:32:09 <Rucknium[m]> Reddit post on mining pools delaying transaction confirmations is finally up: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/10gapp9/centralized_mining_pools_are_delaying_monero/
19:48:22 <cryptogrampy[m]> https://twitter.com/binance/status/1615922458581778433?s=20  beam delisted from binance
19:53:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Making room for $poof
19:55:16 <plowsof11> im putting all my beams on localmonero 
19:57:24 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Ban
19:57:54 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Again
19:58:38 <testertest222[m]> Hi I have a question
19:58:56 <testertest222[m]> i am using debian with ledger nano x and monero gui
19:59:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> eudaimon36: 
19:59:39 <testertest222[m]> the monerod height 
19:59:39 <testertest222[m]> when i do ./monerod status
19:59:41 <testertest222[m]> it says 100%
19:59:50 <testertest222[m]> i can see my balance etc
20:00:09 <testertest222[m]> hoever,
20:00:10 <testertest222[m]> however,
20:00:12 <testertest222[m]>  0(out)+0(in) connections,
20:00:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-support:monero.social 
20:01:07 <testertest222[m]> i have no peer connection,
20:01:07 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Ports open?
20:01:09 <testertest222[m]> how to check
20:01:09 <DanIsnotthemanBr> On pc and firewall
20:01:09 <testertest222[m]> ufw
20:01:09 <testertest222[m]> yes
20:01:10 <testertest222[m]> i have added those ports to ufw
20:01:12 <DanIsnotthemanBr> And on router too?
20:01:12 <testertest222[m]> and even with ufw disabled
20:01:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-support:monero.social 
20:01:27 <testertest222[m]> oh, should I port forward those port to this ip address?
20:01:50 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Omg to many rooooooooms
20:01:59 <testertest222[m]> should i forward both port
20:02:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is clearly brrrrrrrrrr support
20:02:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> 6hrs a day is enough support for community logs
20:02:57 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 18080
20:02:59 <testertest222[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/10ftswa/please_help_couldnt_send_the_money_daemon_is_busy/
20:03:06 <testertest222[m]> i put in this reddit post
20:03:18 <testertest222[m]> i will give that port forward a try
20:03:20 <testertest222[m]> thanks
20:03:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Talk about "GIVE ME SERVICE"
20:03:31 <Rucknium[m]> testertest222[m]: When you do this, are you starting up and shutting down another monerod instance beside the one you are already running?
20:03:58 <testertest222[m]> i think i can only have 1 running at a time
20:04:07 <testertest222[m]> i think there is only 1 running
20:04:16 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Ofrnxmr support service
20:04:21 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 24/7
20:05:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> "I can see my balance but 0 in 0 out shows 100%"
20:05:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> What height does it show
20:06:39 <testertest222[m]> Height: 2687147/2687147 (100.0%) on mainnet,
20:06:51 <testertest222[m]> this is my recent sync
20:07:01 <testertest222[m]> i think i just need port forward on my router
20:07:08 <testertest222[m]> and static ip address
20:07:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> And your cli version is 17.3.2?
20:08:43 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:06:26.383	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)
20:09:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well thats the right version (18.1.2).
20:09:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can access the internet from the same device? 
20:10:37 <plowsof11> you had to have downloaded the blockchain from someone 
20:11:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Xyproblem.info everyday
20:12:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Need details on what was done before it stopped working.
20:12:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were over 100k blocks since youre last sync so clearly this is an old problem that is just being discovered because you did x or y
20:14:52 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Good domain problems.xyz
20:20:56 <testertest222[m]> i think i have downloaded the chain
20:21:11 <testertest222[m]> because it says height 100%
20:21:27 <testertest222[m]> yes.  I have full access to the internet
20:21:40 <testertest222[m]> I tried port forwarding just now
20:21:57 <testertest222[m]> both 18080 18081 ports
20:22:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> No, you havent downloaded the chain
20:22:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Current height is  2803236+
20:22:35 <testertest222[m]> yes, i see 0(out)+1(in)
20:22:37 <testertest222[m]> out 
20:22:48 <testertest222[m]> so I am connected to peers
20:22:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> sync_info
20:22:49 <testertest222[m]> thanks
20:23:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are you behind a Nat? Using docker? Special flags? 
20:23:18 <testertest222[m]> Height: 2687147, target: 2687147 (100%)... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e828010054d62f249a4bede0edc52d6bf3b98ca1>)
20:23:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> The node should be able to make outgoing connections, especially if its able to receive them
20:23:39 <testertest222[m]> i am behind a router
20:23:43 <testertest222[m]> provided by isp
20:23:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> That peer didnt send you the updated block height 
20:24:09 <testertest222[m]> and I am connected to a switch and that switch is connected to the router
20:24:25 <testertest222[m]> i am not using docker
20:25:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can try adding a good peer 
20:25:35 <testertest222[m]> how to do that
20:27:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> --add-priority-node=23.88.126.19:18080
20:27:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Try that. Thats one of my peers
20:27:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not "trusted" but im connected to that ip
20:27:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: This is a startup flag
20:28:59 <testertest222[m]> ./monerod --add-priority-node=23.88.126.19:18080
20:29:03 <testertest222[m]> i did this
20:29:12 <testertest222[m]> and i stopped existing monerod
20:29:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> It sjouldnt. It should fail to run if there is an existing monerod
20:29:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> You have to stop the existing one first anyway.
20:29:52 <plowsof11> "The [previous] network upgrade [took] place on ~13th August, 2022 (block 2,688,888)."
20:30:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> So. Make sure you stop all instances before running
20:30:17 <plowsof11> user is withholding information 
20:30:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> My eyes must be playing tricks on me
20:30:50 <testertest222[m]> i am confused
20:30:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> pop_blocks 5000
20:31:16 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Looks like you using pruned?
20:31:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Irrelevent ^
20:31:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> He's stuck on old chain 
20:31:54 <testertest222[m]> I don't think so
20:32:48 <testertest222[m]> should i remove the old chain
20:32:56 <testertest222[m]> ./monerod --add-priority-node=23.88.126.19:18080
20:33:12 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:28:39.413	I **********************************************************************... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/eb37cb9343c513972da2bc342378ee2abb75be4b>)
20:33:16 <testertest222[m]> i am at here
20:33:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: --pop-blocks=5000
20:33:56 <monerobull[m]1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFg5Bs4VRn4
20:34:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wait dont pop yet
20:34:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Did it begin to sync? 
20:36:07 <testertest222[m]> no
20:36:14 <testertest222[m]> 023-01-19 20:28:39.413	I **********************************************************************... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/22d37ba6f70fe5d126cdbb1979977d03ad3b3755>)
20:36:17 <testertest222[m]> still this
20:36:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> 0 connections? 
20:36:53 <testertest222[m]> Height: 2687147/2687147 (100.0%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 2.61 GH/s, v14 (next fork in 2.4 days), 0(out)+1(in) connections, uptime 0d 0h 7m 55s
20:37:02 <testertest222[m]> 1 in connections
20:37:54 <testertest222[m]> should i try pop
20:38:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1. Delete `p2pstate.bin` from the blockchain folder (default is .bitmonero in home folder)
20:38:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2. Run `./monerod --pop-blocks 5000`
20:38:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> 3. Try again 
20:38:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> 0. Stop monerod
20:40:17 <testertest222[m]> Failed to parse arguments: unrecognised option '--pop-blocks'
20:40:51 <testertest222[m]> should I try ./monerod
20:41:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Holdon, need to Google and read brb
20:41:29 <testertest222[m]> thanks
20:42:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can just try to run it (after deleting p2pstate.bin)
20:42:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Looking for the correct pop blocks command 
20:42:20 <DanIsnotthemanBr> * brave 
20:44:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im looking for answers, not a wild goose chase and pride 😂
20:45:05 <testertest222[m]> ok, so far it is the same output
20:45:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Well then. Im just crazy
20:45:38 <testertest222[m]> with 1 connection
20:45:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "pop_blocks 5000" <- This is correct 
20:45:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Type that into monerod
20:46:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or ./monerod pop_blocks 5000
20:46:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: Btw, I found via "help" 
20:46:47 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:46:38.375	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)
20:46:47 <testertest222[m]> Error: Couldn't connect to daemon: 127.0.0.1:18081
20:47:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats monero gui?
20:47:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or wallet cli? 
20:47:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are we diagnosing a wallet or a daemonb🐒
20:47:35 <testertest222[m]> ./monerod pop_blocks 5000
20:47:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> (A daemon)
20:47:41 <testertest222[m]> i typed this into terminal
20:47:42 <DanIsnotthemanBr> ofrnxmr[m]: Makes it more interesting that way
20:48:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ok, so the daemon isnt running 
20:49:21 <testertest222[m]> when it is running
20:49:29 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:48:50.223	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)
20:49:40 <testertest222[m]> that command is paused
20:49:46 <testertest222[m]> still executing
20:51:00 <testertest222[m]> wow how long does that take to pop 5000
20:51:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive never tried
20:51:29 <testertest222[m]> ok finished
20:51:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> How do your connections look now?
20:52:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Status 
20:52:26 <testertest222[m]> when i look at status
20:52:27 <testertest222[m]> it is still 2023-01-19 20:51:37.358	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)
20:52:27 <testertest222[m]> Height: 2682147/2682147 (100.0%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 2.58 GH/s, v14 (next fork in 9.4 days), 0(out)+1(in) connections, uptime 0d 0h 4m 34s
20:52:27 <testertest222[m]> r
20:52:28 <testertest222[m]> ./monerod status
20:52:29 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:51:20.106	I [batch] DB resize needed
20:52:29 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:51:20.267	I LMDB Mapsize increased.  Old: 156755MiB, New: 157779MiB
20:52:29 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:51:21.312	I [batch] DB resize needed
20:52:29 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:51:21.379	I LMDB Mapsize increased.  Old: 157779MiB, New: 158803MiB
20:52:38 <testertest222[m]> my connection window
20:52:42 <testertest222[m]> shows this
20:54:39 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:53:21.495	I [batch] DB resize needed
20:54:39 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:53:21.541	I LMDB Mapsize increased.  Old: 158803MiB, New: 159827MiB
20:56:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> And the heights again? 
20:57:06 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 20:56:53.902	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)
20:57:06 <testertest222[m]> Height: 2682147/2682147 (100.0%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 2.58 GH/s, v14 (next fork in 9.4 days), 0(out)+1(in) connections, uptime 0d 0h 9m 51s
20:57:06 <testertest222[m]> r
20:58:03 <rbrunner> Looks like the single other Monero daemon you are connected to does not work correctly, and you can't sync to top of chain because of this
20:58:23 <rbrunner> You have to get more connections somehow
20:58:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> No good... I found a trusted node
20:58:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> ./monerod --add-priority-node=nodes.hashvault.pro:18080
20:58:43 <rbrunner> Strange that you have 0 outgoing connections
20:59:22 <rbrunner> Ah, ok, already discussed earlier ...
20:59:55 <testertest222[m]> i turned off gufw
21:00:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> He's stuck before the hard fork, I imagine his peer list banned a lot of nodes
21:00:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Deleted that, still no connections
21:00:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> So now asking to add the node that p2pool users are instructed to use 
21:01:01 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 21:00:32.910	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/e3f230bc0597c061b57010cb203a7d7bf49a38f6>)
21:02:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> The resize messages arent important
21:02:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just need logs about height and number of connections
21:02:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> And sync_info will show mooooooooooooooo below a list of IP's if it is syncing
21:02:48 <testertest222[m]> how do i get the sync_info
21:03:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Type that into monerod
21:03:14 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 21:03:01.140	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/a910adf8f704e87c3f8592e4093af37f3bc339fc>)
21:03:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "./monerod --add-priority-node=..." <- Did you stop monerod and start with this new peer? 
21:04:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> (If not, please do)
21:04:36 <testertest222[m]> ./monerod --add-priority-node=nodes.hashvault.pro:18080
21:05:28 <testertest222[m]> yes i did that
21:05:32 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 21:04:57.916	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/561aa5e3f6552f0ce2a3b753c899d0413910f1ac>)
21:05:32 <testertest222[m]> i got this
21:07:48 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 21:07:17.003	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)
21:07:48 <testertest222[m]> Height: 2682147/2682147 (100.0%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 2.58 GH/s, v14 (next fork in 9.4 days), 0(out)+1(in) connections, uptime 0d 0h 2m 37s
21:14:21 <rbrunner> Looks to me that for whatever strange reason your Monero daemon cannot reach *out* to other nodes
21:14:53 <rbrunner> Especially not that node given, nodes.hashvault.pro:18080
21:15:16 <rbrunner> Can you ping that? With: ping nodes.hashvault.pro
21:15:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> The incoming connection is service 0 blocks as well. Banned it and it was replaced with 1higher ip
21:15:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> 0 blockheight*
21:16:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> testertest222: 
21:16:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> rbrunner: ^
21:19:15 <rbrunner> No idea, frankly. This all is usually so foolproof, no clear idea how you would have to mis-configure a system to get this behavior ...
21:19:41 <rbrunner> I mean, not able to connect *out*? Really? :)
21:19:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> They cannot ping it
21:19:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> rbrunner: Right? 
21:20:31 <rbrunner> Didn't read something from them telling that. Do messages get dropped right now? I am on IRC.
21:21:15 <rbrunner> Have to leave anyway, sorry people. Nuke it from orbit and try again :)
21:22:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats what just said loloo
21:22:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> System is broken or misconfigured 
21:22:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Can browse but cant ping.
21:22:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Browsers on Ubuntu (im assuming) are snaps and dont necessarily respect the global settings 
21:27:50 <plowsof11> assuming 'banned by every node because they have been using v17.3.2 all day / corrupted blockchain'? 
21:29:06 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 🚀💻
21:32:31 <testertest222[m]> i tried ping
21:32:53 <testertest222[m]> from two different machines
21:32:55 <testertest222[m]> windows and linux
21:32:55 <testertest222[m]> and i cannot ping those addresses
21:33:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mhm
21:33:19 <plowsof11> you are banned , try again tomorrow
21:33:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Even less relevant for this channel 
21:34:10 <testertest222[m]> are i banned forever
21:34:11 <testertest222[m]> or just a day
21:34:20 <plowsof11> lol
21:34:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> We'll see
21:34:58 <plowsof11> ping node.monerodevs.org 
21:35:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> He can ping Google 
21:35:39 <testertest222[m]> PING node.monerodevs.org (192.99.8.110) 56(84) bytes of data.
21:35:43 <testertest222[m]> i get this
21:35:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> I also gave 2 different priority nodes and neither is connecting or updating the top height 
21:35:46 <testertest222[m]> and no response after
21:35:49 <testertest222[m]> i guess no
21:36:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> ping bing.com
21:36:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> ping getmonero.org
21:36:26 <testertest222[m]> PING bing.com(2620:1ec:c11::200 (2620:1ec:c11::200)) 56 data bytes... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/04004c1801d7d1bed1283a676bb331b47c422146>)
21:36:52 <testertest222[m]> PING getmonero.org(2606:4700:10::6816:add (2606:4700:10::6816:add)) 56 data bytes... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/2151098763b4365a6fddd980bb39977786e2521a>)
21:36:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just a "good" or "no good" if fibe
21:37:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Is fine*
21:37:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> ping supportxmr.com
21:37:38 <testertest222[m]> no good
21:37:44 <testertest222[m]> cannot ping supportxmr.com
21:37:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Blocklists 
21:38:16 <plowsof11> ipv6 only
21:38:42 <testertest222[m]> that's two different machines
21:38:54 <testertest222[m]> windows and debian
21:38:55 <testertest222[m]> both cannot ping
21:38:56 <testertest222[m]> the behavior is the same
21:39:02 <testertest222[m]> i cannot ping
21:39:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Something is blocking mining related stuff, but if your browser can access its likely because you enables a system wide setting and browsers dont care about your system settings 
21:39:10 <testertest222[m]> to those websites
21:40:24 <testertest222[m]> on my debian machine
21:40:30 <testertest222[m]> i don't have clamav
21:40:35 <testertest222[m]> and firewall is off
21:40:39 <testertest222[m]> ufw
21:40:40 <testertest222[m]> is off
21:40:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Maybe isp
21:40:57 <DanIsnotthemanBr> What dns you using?
21:41:04 <testertest222[m]> xfinity
21:41:11 <testertest222[m]> i think it is comcast
21:41:21 <testertest222[m]> i can use ledger
21:41:28 <testertest222[m]> bitcoin and litecoin
21:41:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> He can access the websites from the browser 
21:41:33 <testertest222[m]> but monero a lot of issues
21:41:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ledger 😂
21:42:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> ISP would be blocking from the browser it was at isp level 
21:42:39 <testertest222[m]> i think something could be complicated going on
21:42:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
21:42:50 <testertest222[m]> browser maybe ok
21:43:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-offtopic:monero.social 
21:44:14 <testertest222[m]> i am in a big country
21:45:01 <testertest222[m]> i don't think isp would block something like this
21:45:01 <testertest222[m]> this would require major effort
21:45:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think you need to take this convo to your diary 
21:45:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Since off topic isnt on topic enough
21:46:09 <testertest222[m]> ok , thanks so much.
21:46:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> I said from the beginning this was an issue that required a shitload of brrrrrr, and turns our its not monerod related 
21:47:10 <testertest222[m]> great, but many people would run into same issue before
21:47:21 <testertest222[m]> i have another windows machine, same thing
21:47:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plenty more diagnosing needs to be done, but this isnt the place for "help with my pc"
21:47:40 <testertest222[m]> i don't think this is my pc
21:47:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Multiple personalities maybe, but not many different people  
21:47:58 <testertest222[m]> i think those locations are blocked
21:48:01 <testertest222[m]> at least for me
21:48:15 <testertest222[m]> i have multiple pc having the same response
21:48:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think they work just fine in your browser, unless you lied
21:48:21 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Maybe  try diff dns
21:48:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> He did
21:49:00 <testertest222[m]> i think i can translate to the ip address fine
21:49:06 <testertest222[m]> but i can access them in the browser
21:49:11 <testertest222[m]> but the port is 80
21:49:29 <testertest222[m]> usually for browsing
21:49:29 <testertest222[m]> and other ports are blocked
21:49:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Was using dnsmasq before, turned it off -_-
21:49:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Probably hasnt reboot 
21:49:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Probably not a monero issue
21:49:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Probably running weird stuff on all systems 
21:49:52 <testertest222[m]> yeah 
21:49:58 <testertest222[m]> i can reboot and retry
21:50:02 <testertest222[m]> i don't think it is that
21:50:08 <testertest222[m]> i think it is blocked
21:50:19 <testertest222[m]> thank you so much
21:50:29 <testertest222[m]> i guess monero is blocked at least for a while for me
21:56:31 <plowsof11> i blame @martin03 for todays spam 
22:01:33 <plowsof11> featherwallet.org , download, restore your wallet from seed with height (as its probably incompatible) -> click onion in the bottom right and select 'route all traffic all over tor' -> click apply. / close this box. now click the 'red circle' at the bottom to bring a node list up, wait for the tor nodes to populate , double click on one e.g. that begins with plowsof -> wait  
22:09:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cant run tor either 
22:11:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Seriously)
22:12:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!WzzKmkfUkXPHFERgvm:matrix.org/$Fq7GG6XS1Kl7XKlHljvZ_W7uaCwQsC3Kz8kOCOjaOWo?via=monero.social&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat
22:12:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> They knew they couldnt use tor before that started this spam
22:15:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Eventually "started tor" after "I used it a year ago". Prior to that tor didnt work on any device and no context as to what device tor is now working or what they did to get it to work or what wasnt working) 
22:16:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> I asked about tor because if is is isp or some dumb settings --proxy should workaround that anyway
22:45:31 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Hang on tor doesnt work?
22:46:44 <testertest222[m]> Hi all,
22:46:48 <testertest222[m]> i fixed my issue
22:46:55 <testertest222[m]> on my router, it is set to high security
22:47:01 <testertest222[m]> and I set to no security
22:47:09 <testertest222[m]> and now i can sync now
22:47:31 <testertest222[m]> 2023-01-19 22:47:20.069	I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.1.2-release)
22:47:31 <testertest222[m]> Height: 2689647/2803325 (95.9%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 2.41 GH/s, v16, 12(out)+3(in) connections, uptime 0d 0h 4m 21s
22:47:35 <testertest222[m]> my new status
22:47:50 <testertest222[m]> thank you so much for your help
22:48:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wondeful
22:49:07 <testertest222[m]> hi ofrnxmr,
22:49:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btw, you dont need 18081 forwarded, nor do you want it to be
22:49:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes sir?
22:49:31 <testertest222[m]> since my monero is getting to work
22:49:38 <testertest222[m]> do you want a small gift
22:49:58 <testertest222[m]> you have been helping me out, and that takes quite a bit of your time
22:50:15 <nioc> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/seraphis-library-work-2.html
22:52:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> 🤔 not sure if your serious?
22:52:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Would the gift be xmr? 
22:52:28 <testertest222[m]> yeah
22:52:35 <testertest222[m]> i am serious
22:53:03 <testertest222[m]> i am still geting my monero synced up
22:53:19 <testertest222[m]> you are probably rich anyway
22:53:24 <testertest222[m]> I don't know