07:35:55 <monerooo[m]> Are there other channels besides monero talk? In other languages? 
10:12:50 <Lovera[m]> Podcast channel? Or Monero related?
10:46:55 <monerooo[m]> Related to monero 
10:49:46 <monerooo[m]> * Related to monero 
10:49:47 <monerooo[m]> Like the episodes. Only in other languages. Example https://anchor.fm/elmonero
11:35:33 <ocean[m]> https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/monero-mumble/id1498831372
14:25:35 <monerobull[m]> Monero Mumble is dead
14:25:35 <Lovera[m]> > <@monerooo:monero.social> Related to monero 
14:25:35 <Lovera[m]> > Like the episodes. Only in other languages. Example https://anchor.fm/elmonero
14:25:35 <moneraut[m]> I have been in the Zug area in Switzerland. Really nice place and crypto friendly. How is Monero perceipt in Switzerland ? 
14:25:36 <Lovera[m]> Well, I have a small YouTube Channel related to Monero in Spanish. ⤵️
14:25:36 <Lovera[m]> https://youtube.com/@loveraxmr
14:25:36 <moneraut[m]> Also there is real nice shop (bitcoin) in Zurich that will give people introductions to crypto with ATM and to chill out. Is there somewhere in the world similar to this shop but only focussed on Monero ? If not, maybe its great to set it up. A place where people can come together and explaining the crypto privacy math to visitors. 
14:25:47 <alexanarcho[m]> yep, deprecated
20:18:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> I need to actually listen to it
20:18:17 <plowsof11> monerobull alerted me today about an animated video series update 
20:18:17 <plowsof11> the long awaited video one, possibly in its final form https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XJ6p-7GTMdo
20:18:17 <ceetee[m]> this was a pleasant surprise, and I'd say it was fun to watch
20:18:18 <ceetee[m]> lol I was expecting the other video
20:18:18 <plowsof11> the actual animations are nice though yeah. the ending 'zoom out' and 'abrupt' outro was a bit janky 
20:18:18 <plowsof11> "The voice-over was contributed by ParaDexical (please let us know your Reddit handle!)" https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/11k0kf8/animated_video_1_wrapping_up/
20:18:18 <plowsof11> we're
20:18:18 <plowsof11> can i get a slow clap going?
20:18:18 <plowsof11> pretend where in a board room, and this is the unveiling of 1 years work
20:18:18 <ceetee[m]> have to watch it a few more times to see if I notice any not-good detail
20:18:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because, it sounds like the same script, not sure of the bad info was corrected 
20:22:01 <zeoz[m]> Great work, beautiful animations, perfect dialog and voice... big thanks to the creators.  
20:22:01 <monerobull[m]> Compared to the old 2d animations, this is confusing and a strain on the eyes
20:22:01 <plowsof11> how much does microsoft sam charge for the voice over 
20:22:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> zeoz[m]: Its auto subbed on yt
20:22:01 <monerobull[m]> We also overpaid by 50% eventhough xmr isn't exactly all that high right now
20:22:01 <zeoz[m]> plans for subs also or just voiceovers?
20:22:01 <plowsof11> i was expecting a human to do the voice over , maybe im just too oldschool
20:22:02 <plowsof11> look at the comment "ParaDexical here. So happy that I could lend my voice to this project, it looks fantastic."
20:22:02 <plowsof11> he's saying its his human voice lol
20:22:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull:  ty
20:22:50 <ceetee[m]> voice is very clear and understandable, that's what matters most to me
20:22:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Compared to the old 2d animations, this is confusing and a strain on the eyes
20:22:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> ^ not sure who the audience is 
20:22:50 <monerobull[m]> 630$ per minute, the anime studio takes 800
20:22:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull[m]: Geonic took 600
20:23:42 <monerobull[m]> Kek
20:23:42 <DanIsnotthemanBr> For the oscars?
20:23:42 <plowsof11> 5% voice-over actor well earned 
20:23:43 <plowsof11> i hope paradexical has enough time to voice over the rest of the videos for continuity 
20:23:43 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Or wateva
20:24:19 <ceetee[m]> Text is sometimes hard to read, especially if the background is busy and on the fee comparison scene with tiny text
20:24:19 <plowsof11> there was a trailer released for the monero movie but i have not seen it yet
20:24:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> ceetee[m]: Not what the voice is saying?
20:24:19 <ceetee[m]> Should be the same voice for all, yeah
20:24:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> The voice is a huge improvement 
20:24:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> But the script matters lolz
20:24:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not a hobby, its supposed to be pitched to merchants 
20:24:57 <plowsof11> i just think its funny that someone is using microsoft sam and claiming its their own voice in broad day light 
20:25:10 <moneraut[m]> Great video and graphics. Really nice vibe. But is there a transcript of the video ? I thought I heard something strange.
20:25:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> There is a transcript to all of the videos. Please read them 🙏
20:27:06 <plowsof11> anyway, not a problem , it sounds clear/better than the original 
20:27:06 <DanIsnotthemanBr> So this came through css
20:27:06 <monerobull[m]> I wouldn't dare to show that video to anyone tbh
20:27:06 <ceetee[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I was commenting on the "this is not a human" statement
20:27:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im just agreeing that, at least, I can hear what is beingnsaid no
20:27:07 <plowsof11> 5% voice-over actor ceetee please
20:27:07 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Maybe xmrgptchat can write the script
20:27:07 <monerobull[m]> I also thought the voice was ai
20:27:07 <plowsof11> it IS ai
20:27:07 <plowsof11> the monerochan ai was better though (watever software that was)
20:27:07 <monerobull[m]> Oh.
20:27:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> DanIsnotthemanBr: Monerobull already rewrote  a better version 
20:27:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Keanu one was fire too
20:27:08 <monerobull[m]> plowsof11: What i said
20:27:13 <moneraut[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Where can I find it ?
20:27:27 <plowsof11> this voice is literal 'microsoft excel - type "poop" and play out loud in class circe early 2000's
20:27:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry, got distracted. Grabbing link
20:27:31 <ceetee[m]> plowsof11: you know my voice, I think there are mor qualified people :p
20:31:12 <plowsof11> s/circe/circa
20:31:12 <monerobull[m]> I vote axe the remaining videos
20:31:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> moneraut:  https://gitlab.com/monero-videos/monero-adoption-animated-videos/
20:31:12 <monerobull[m]> monerobull[m]: There are 36 xmr left 
20:31:12 <plowsof11> my voice is terrible, im not a voice over actor though :( 
20:31:12 <plowsof11> bots taking our jerbs 
20:31:13 <monerobull[m]> Shit like this is precisely why we don't pay out everything beforehand
20:34:48 <plowsof11> releasing the raw files would be ideal also (animations without text / voice over etc)
20:34:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Monero's low, _flat fees_" 
20:34:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> "while retaining the advantage of cash where there is _no central point of failure_ and hence no potential downtime"
20:34:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ladies and gents. The internet does not exist
20:37:10 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Not sure why video get funded unless it was made with monero tech or benefits monero
20:37:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which 😂
20:37:11 <DanIsnotthemanBr> s/video/videos/
20:37:44 <plowsof11> i dont want dsmlegend to shout at us / get angry again :(
20:37:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> DSM needs to quit while hes ahead
20:37:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im with Monerobull. Pay them for 1 video and close the ccs
20:38:11 <monerobull[m]> The video is DOGWATER
20:38:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull[m]: Dont insult ass
20:38:11 <monerobull[m]> We massively overpaid 
20:38:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is donkey
20:38:12 <monerobull[m]> This is ass
20:38:12 <monerobull[m]> Ai voice
20:38:12 <monerobull[m]> What a joke
20:38:59 <DanIsnotthemanBr> YOUR CRASHING ELEMENT !! Slow down
20:38:59 <plowsof11> this is art, gatekeepers^^^^ !
20:38:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> The animations = pretty, but meaningless to target audience
20:38:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> the script = incorrect
20:38:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> The voice = lol
20:38:59 <d34d8its[m]> If I have a wallet with multiple with multiple accounts, sub addresses per account, is there a way to move monero between the accounts without incurring a transaction fee?
20:39:44 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Nope blockchain
20:39:44 <d34d8its[m]> Got it, thank you.
20:39:44 <monerobull[m]> d34d8its[m]: Accounts are seperate so no
20:39:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> d34d8its:  er.. perhaps?
20:39:45 <monerobull[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> The animations = pretty, but meaningless to target audience
20:39:45 <monerobull[m]> > the script = incorrect
20:39:45 <monerobull[m]> > The voice = lol
20:39:45 <monerobull[m]> AXE AXE AXE 🪓
20:39:45 <d34d8its[m]> s/with multiple//
20:39:46 <plowsof11> d34d8its: send me the transaction fee bill , ill see if i can compensate you
20:39:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lmao
20:40:03 <monerobull[m]> This is my new target
20:40:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rayatina?!?!
20:40:11 <monerobull[m]> Getting this shit ccs axed
20:40:46 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Lol
20:40:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof 
20:40:47 <plowsof11> but you didnt make a better version (for free) so consensus = achieved sorry
20:40:47 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Target acquired
20:40:47 <DanIsnotthemanBr> 🚀🤔
20:40:51 <monerobull[m]> I LITERALLY DID 
20:40:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were killing this 
20:41:06 <plowsof11> hahaha
20:41:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> luigi1111:  do the thing 
20:41:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its almost a random Tuesday 
20:42:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof, hurry and ask "going one.. going twice.."
20:43:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Netflix made a better ad for free 
20:43:07 <monerobull[m]> I will make the remaining videos for free with better scripts, better voice acting and only somewhat worse animations and all i want is for the funds to go to the general fund
20:43:24 <monerobull[m]> We can have them voiced by Keanu reeves lmao
20:43:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> You mean, funds are earmarked for a future ccs, to be voted on as to how tonredistribure 
20:43:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Speaking of which 
20:43:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Since were all here - @plowsof, can you repeat the idea you had about acceptxmr?
20:43:48 <plowsof11> im off the clock / on vacation - after the 9th i will be shilling the animated videos as the best thing we've ever seen 
20:43:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> So we can merge today 
20:43:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> And close animated videos at the same tome 
20:44:36 <DanIsnotthemanBr> monerobull[m]: Can always use bing ai in celebrity mode
20:44:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof keeps daydreaming 
20:44:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Off the clock lmao
20:44:55 <plowsof11> acceptxmr right, BusyBoredom has some thoughts about the suggestion 
20:44:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes Sir, acceptxmr
20:45:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> I forgot what it was, do you remember? 
20:45:16 <plowsof11> which was to, use gupax as a precedent - which was 20xmr for 1 year maintenance  
20:45:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> So total for accept xmr =?
20:45:33 <plowsof11> as it stands acceptxmr is only 6xmr (because he made use of the 30xmr budget) 
20:46:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> BusyBoredom:  with the added maintenance, can you go 12 months from date of fully funded? Instead of retroactive 
20:47:31 <monerobull[m]> I've had it up to the BSV transaction count with the ccs
20:47:31 <plowsof11> as it stands now its using all xmrsales funds (30xmr) - but we could guage community sentiment' by letting it raise 14 xmr for 1 year maintenance (so 6 + 14) but busyboredom has other ideas
20:47:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> monerobull @monerobull:matrix.org:  can we please move to close animated videos at meeting 
20:47:32 <monerobull[m]> monerobull[m]: I should just never look at it again 
20:47:32 <monerobull[m]> And never join another community meeting 
20:47:32 <monerobull[m]> If people to get scammed they can go ahead 
20:47:32 <monerobull[m]> * If people want to get
20:47:37 <plowsof11> this is a case of 'we want to give you more xmr to maintain it, and set a realistic amount for future proposals to start from' but boredom is happy to do it for 6, without issue 
20:47:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org: *
20:49:17 <monerobull[m]> Do we even HAVE to pay them
20:49:17 <plowsof11> work done = work paid (mj precedent) 
20:49:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Plowsof
20:49:17 <monerobull[m]> They delivered garbage. Sure they did work but it's garbage
20:49:17 <monerobull[m]> Ah
20:49:17 <monerobull[m]> Yeah
20:49:17 <monerobull[m]> That
20:49:19 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Lifetime maintenance
20:49:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerobull
20:49:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are youbguys smoking?
20:49:30 <plowsof11> if i claim to have done the work**** 
20:49:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Mj DOES NOTBFUCKING SET ORECENDEDNYRNSBDBDS
20:49:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> smh
20:49:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> His tf are you using a scam as precedent 
20:49:53 <DanIsnotthemanBr> So loud
20:50:33 <monerobull[m]> The system is rotten. Burn it down
20:50:33 <plowsof11> if i say, ive just had took a shit in the woods after setting my laptop up for remote work and i want payment for the 12 hours i spent doing that, then i will be paid - and accept the "reputation hit
20:50:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Pay them for video 1, and stop this shittrain
20:50:56 <monerobull[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Mad that we even pay them but they are making out like a bandit 
20:50:56 <DanIsnotthemanBr> But if no one else is in the woods how do you know they took a shit
20:50:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> What Dan said
20:51:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> And stfu plowsof, mr 9 months is 3
20:51:13 <ceetee[m]> > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> "Monero's low, _flat fees_" 
20:51:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Flat fees is bs
20:51:14 <ceetee[m]> > "while retaining the advantage of cash where there is _no central point of failure_ and hence no potential downtime"
20:51:14 <ceetee[m]> flat fees, as in no variable percentage on top. Merchants don't care if it's 1ct or 5ct 
20:51:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> They are not flat at all
20:51:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> They only appear flat because blocks arent full
20:51:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> They arent even flat from 1 minute to the next 
20:53:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fees can be much higher than 2.5%
20:53:32 <RavFX[m]> I just look at my TX, each one do have a slightly different fee (for 1:2 TX)
20:53:35 <bridgerton[m]> <BobbedBort> isn't the "flat fees" in the video in reference to the fact that paying more doesn't increase the fees, unlike with other payment processor networks?
20:53:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Free to use, flat fees, its all bullshit 
20:54:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> If merchant accepts 1500 tx in a day, they need to consolidate 
20:54:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> That costs money.
20:54:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> @bobbed thats not true per amount 
20:54:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> But not per output.
20:54:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> You pay more if you have more outputs.
20:55:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or more inputs.
20:55:23 <BusyBoredom[m]> The suggestion was to increase the maintenance budget to 20 XMR to be in-line with the price of maintenance for past projects (like gupax) and the raise the additional XMR through CCS so that AcceptXMR would have donor exposure (allowing donors to be the final approvers of AcceptXMR).
20:55:23 <BusyBoredom[m]> I gave the suggestion a little pushback because I already agreed to do the maintenance for 6 XMR, and I'm worried that increasing the price would be seen as a cash grab by me even if the current price is basically charity. 
20:55:23 <BusyBoredom[m]> I think since the realistic alternative to AcceptXMR is gto give the 30 XMR to the general fund (which the donors don't really have a say in anyway), it's in the best interest of the donors to fund AcceptXMR as is. It's closer to the donor's initial intent than anything else available.
20:55:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> That is** true per amount*** but not per output/input
20:55:51 <BusyBoredom[m]> Sorry for typos, I'm on mobile
20:56:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Busy, its not a cash grab
20:56:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Animated videos are, at 400/hr
20:56:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry, per min
20:56:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Would you he willing to extend maintenance to 12 month from fully funded date?
20:59:01 <monerobull[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: And we pay 4.5 xmr per video
20:59:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> @bobbed You pay for the weight of your tx.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/ee4d857cf00ef49d6dd5650c5f0bef2f0cef6281>)
20:59:10 <monerobull[m]> * And we pay 4.5 xmr per minute 
20:59:10 <BusyBoredom[m]> Dang as soon as I sent that, matrix loaded like 20 old messages I hadn't seen. 
20:59:10 <BusyBoredom[m]> Sure I would gladly extend the maintenance to 12 months from funding date for the additional XMR 
20:59:53 <ceetee[m]> hard disagree buzyboredom. It's important work, and you were underselling yourself before
21:01:20 <monerobull[m]> The payment gateway is worth so much more than this shit video
21:02:35 <MajesticBank> why does monero eco-system people don't get CCS funding btw, they really deserve it
21:02:45 <MajesticBank> when talking about gateway
21:03:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Erciccione?
21:04:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero ecosystem is a place where devs sort of give up repo rights 
21:04:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cool idea, but doesnt seem to be relevant anymore 
21:04:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe im wrong?
21:05:26 <ceetee[m]> The video isn't as bad as you make it sound. Maybe bad value, BUT it highlights the key points that are important for merchants. The script issues you @ofrnxmr mentioned are nitpicking, maybe instead of flat fee call it "low fee independent of transaction value", because thats how I understood it. We had *much* worse work
21:05:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not nit picking 
21:05:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> I stopped like 2 lines in
21:06:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> I didnt have to look far or hard to find confusing, or straight up incorrect info
21:06:30 <MajesticBank> https://github.com/monero-integrations
21:06:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> And ceetee
21:07:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> That suggestion was made, (tonrefer to it as a low fee etc), suggestion was not taken
21:07:07 <MajesticBank> https://github.com/monero-ecosystem
21:07:45 <MajesticBank> https://monerointegrations.com/
21:08:08 <ceetee[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: that's ... bad
21:08:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Majestic
21:08:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Do they want money?
21:08:30 <Rucknium[m]> By the way, send merchants to https://www.uschamber.com/co/run/finance/accepting-cryptocurrency-as-payment
21:08:31 <Rucknium[m]> Good, balanced info there
21:09:43 <bridgerton[m]> <BobbedBort> > You pay for the weight of your tx.
21:09:43 <bridgerton[m]> Yes, thought for a non-technical person trying to explain transaction weights in an introductory video is unneeded. So saying it's "flat-fee", while it might not be factually correct, it does a "good enough job" and for example shows a merchant who does higher priced items that with Monero you needn't worry about the product's price (or the transaction's value in general).
21:09:43 <monerobull[m]> ceetee[m]: And it's not like they had to reshoot with their voice actor....
21:09:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> >RSVP! CASH FLOW STRATEGIES FOR SMALL BUSINESS EVENT — 3/30 @ 12 PM ET... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/db14f98890a193ac7375bf43ca3810d2d492348f>)
21:09:44 <monerobull[m]> We got scammed
21:09:44 <monerobull[m]> Last video was nothing like this
21:09:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Oh ffs
21:10:25 <monerobull[m]> Had nice looking 2d and an actual VA
21:10:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sorry irc. Bad paste
21:10:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> > Merchants are responsible for paying transaction fees, as well as setup fees for many payment processors. PayPal, for instance, charges close to 4% per transaction (and sometimes more). Cryptocurrencies charge much lower fees, if any. Some Bitcoin exchanges offer fees under 1%. Likewise, if your business serves customers overseas, cryptocurrencies can help avoid international currency payment fees.
21:10:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> ^ accurate info
21:11:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Zcash has flat fees
21:11:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> See the difference?
21:12:15 <Rucknium[m]> U.S. Chamber of Commerce says it is the largest business association in the world. Businesses might listen to it.
21:12:34 <ceetee[m]> I saw the difference from the beginning, but think it is irrelevant
21:12:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe if we were wownero
21:13:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> But were monero. It matters
21:13:00 <likhujy[m]> i have always the same fee for xmr transactions
21:13:05 <likhujy[m]>  i thought it was fixed
21:13:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Try twice in a row 5 minutes apart lol, its not fixed 
21:13:34 <likhujy[m]> how much does it goes up?
21:13:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its very close (0.00003367 vs 0.00003363) one day, bur the next may be 0.000041
21:14:11 <likhujy[m]> yeah usually is that
21:14:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> And under congestion, "normal" ala automatic fee auto adjusts to account for congedtion. it goes up dynamically. Its anything but fixed 
21:14:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or flat
21:14:58 <likhujy[m]> so the tx price varies depending on how many transactions have you mane instead of the amount of xmr you transact?
21:15:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> Based on the amount of transactions you recieved that need to be combined to make an outgoing tx
21:15:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you receive 0.25xmr 4x, and send 1xmr, you send 4inputs 1 out
21:16:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which costs more than if you received 2xmr and then sent 1, in a 1 in 2out tx
21:16:58 <ceetee[m]> according to my napkin math, under the worst case it will remain below the 35ct minimum paypal fees (assuming the standard low 2in2out)
21:16:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merchants dont use 2in
21:17:01 <likhujy[m]> what is considered "congestion?
21:17:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> They'll have to send 146in tx
21:17:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> likhujy[m]: 300kb + in tx pool
21:17:44 <ceetee[m]> yes, they use 146in tx, but that means they had 146 paying customers
21:17:44 <likhujy[m]> so if monero get mass adoption it will always be congested? 
21:18:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yep. So how to say customers pay the fees is a lie
21:18:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merchants have to pay the same fee on the backend 
21:18:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> And customers dont pay 1 in 2 out, they pay whatever they received 
21:18:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which could be 40 in, 2 out if the customer is spendinf small outputs 
21:18:55 <Rucknium[m]> likhujy: No it has a dynamic block size to specifically reduce fees if mass adoption occurs. 
21:19:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or could be 1 in 2 out if customer is spending large outputs 
21:19:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium[m]: And the fee scales with the blocksize 
21:20:10 <ceetee[m]> likhujy: no, the blocksize is allowed to grow (slowly) if there is consistent demand. For short term demand the block size can stretch up to 2x, at the cost of higher fees 
21:20:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Higher fees which are automatic 
21:20:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Unlike BTC, monero doesnt allow setting the fee precisely within wallet ui's
21:22:01 <likhujy[m]> well i guess mass adoption would also mean block being found more quickly, which would improve transaction time and therefore reducing tx on wait line
21:22:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> So you cannot set a fee "too low". You can opt to set fees below the dynamic block size, but you cannot choose to send fees of 0.00002 or 0.00005 for example.
21:22:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> The gee is chosen by the wallet softwsre, and further by the node itself 
21:22:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> likhujy:  not quite.
21:22:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> The mining difficulty readjusts to account for increased hashrate.
21:22:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> The target block time will always be 2minutes (unless changed in the code)
21:22:57 <likhujy[m]> damn! why?
21:23:11 <likhujy[m]> it would be great if it were faster
21:23:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Why do you need faster?
21:24:17 <likhujy[m]> to pay faster lol
21:24:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> The money arrives in seconds 
21:24:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> The confirmation takes 10+ seconds
21:24:34 <likhujy[m]> to make another transaction faster
21:24:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> With a target of under 2mins til first confirmation 
21:25:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> likhujy[m]: So then youre referring to the 10 block lock 
21:25:11 <likhujy[m]> sure
21:25:26 <likhujy[m]> if those 10 block could be found in half a time..
21:25:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> 20 mins where funds are locked.
21:25:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can get around thus BT splitting outputs 
21:25:28 <likhujy[m]> wouldnt it be better?
21:25:54 <RavFX[m]> the lock is a feature so you don't get invalidated decoy in an event of a reorg
21:26:34 <ceetee[m]> with Seraphis transaction chaining is possible, right?
21:26:34 <likhujy[m]> yeah i know there are ways around this. i'm just saying having block founds in less than 2 minutes would be kinda good..
21:26:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Examole. If you send yourself 0.2xmr 10 tomes, you can spend 0.1 repeatedly, 20 times
21:26:59 <RavFX[m]> But for merchands it change literally nothing
21:26:59 <RavFX[m]> And if you use monero for real it also change nothing. (because you are very likely to have more than one output to spend
21:27:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yup
21:27:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merchants will have hundreds of outputs to choose from and wont be effected by 10 block locks unless they repeatedly consolidate (sweep to cold wallets)
21:28:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Im thinking the use case for repeated consolidations would be for* merchants to sweep to Coldwallets)
21:28:27 <likhujy[m]> so decreasing the time it takes to find a block would have no benefit at all?
21:28:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> None
21:28:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> It was 1 minute when monero first launched 
21:28:59 <likhujy[m]> what about less tx in mem pool
21:29:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> Confirmations dont mean anything if the blockchain can be reorged deep enough  
21:29:42 <RavFX[m]> likhujy[m]: At the end it's the same, more blocks with less tx will use roughly the same amount of space
21:29:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> But more io, id assume 
21:29:57 <likhujy[m]> sure thats true
21:30:10 <likhujy[m]> but would it mean less tx fees because less congestion?
21:30:32 <RavFX[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Yeah, more bandwidth because more blocks to propagate after a miner mine it
21:31:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> likhujy[m]: No
21:31:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> It would mean flooding the network for cheap
21:31:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> The tx fees agent an issue for users etc. The only arguement im making is that they are not flat
21:31:48 <likhujy[m]> so it would be cheaper?
21:32:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Even less than less than 1c, perhaps?
21:32:13 <likhujy[m]> k
21:32:20 <likhujy[m]> not a lot
21:32:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> But flooding takes dollars 
21:32:27 <likhujy[m]> unless you live in venezuela
21:32:56 <RavFX[m]> likhujy[m]: would change nothing for the fees
21:32:56 <RavFX[m]> They stay "minimum" and when we will get to a point that we fill block, if there is enough TX in the mempool, like to fill 2-3 blocks, then one miner will mine it all because its going to be more profitable than not biting the penality. so even peoples making TX at minimum fee will get mined quite fast at the end
21:33:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yupp
21:33:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> We already have that exact problem with 2min blocks on daily charts haha
21:33:47 <likhujy[m]> k got it
21:34:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> The Tldr is that: for end users, fees should remain negligble.
21:34:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> This video is for merchants.
21:34:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fees are definitely not fixed for them and can make massive differences. 
21:36:06 <RavFX[m]> s/to/over/, s/fill/15k/, s/2-3 blocks/tx/
21:36:42 <RavFX[m]> s/to/over/, s/fill/7.5k/, s/2-3 blocks/tx/
21:38:26 <RavFX[m]> It's simple impossible with monero, by design, to make a TX at full fee and have to wait 10 hours because it append you made a TX while ton of people decided to make a TX (That append to me more than one time on BTC shitcoin, one time got to wait over 20 hours because max fee was not enough)
21:39:45 <likhujy[m]> can you actually choose tx fee in xmr?
21:40:13 <merope> <ofrnxmr[m]> "And under congestion, "normal..." <- The baseline fee per byte goes *down*, actually (though slower than the block penalty, so there is still equilibrium). However, users who want priority might choose to pay a higher fee multiplier 
21:40:13 <RavFX[m]> likhujy[m]: Not with monero official wallet.
21:40:14 <RavFX[m]> With some other wallet you can but it only make you're TX flash bright fushia
21:40:49 <merope> likhujy[m]: The official wallets calculate a "baseline" fee, and allow you to pick higher fee multipliers for higher priority (1x, 4x, 20x, 144x iirc)
21:41:13 <merope> > <@gfdshygti53:monero.social> Not with monero official wallet.
21:41:13 <merope> > With some other wallet you can but it only make you're TX flash bright fushia
21:41:13 <merope> Huh? Sure you can
21:41:41 <RavFX[m]> hmm, somehow I thought that that option did nothing
21:42:49 <merope> It "does nothing" in the sense that there's no point in paying more when the blocks aren't full
21:42:49 <RavFX[m]> * did nothing (read it here a while ago, people where complaining that putting higher fee with the wallet and the wallet was still sending at base fee)
21:43:33 <likhujy[m]> so when the tx gets "received" after 10 seconds, why so many sites make you wait until like 6 confirmations? is there a way to reverse the tx after the firsts confirmations?
21:44:30 <RavFX[m]> likhujy[m]: normal stuff again double spend.
21:44:30 <RavFX[m]> the norm is since a long time 3 confirmations (6 minutes)
21:44:30 <RavFX[m]> People accepting bitcoin also usually set it to 3 confirmations (30 minutes)
21:45:21 <merope> Once a tx is in a block, it's permanently written in the blockchain. Until then, it "doesn't exist", so you haven't actually received the money yet
21:45:21 <RavFX[m]> some merchands accept 0 confirmations or 1 confirmations monero, it's really up to the merchand or payment processor
21:45:47 <merope> ^
21:45:47 <likhujy[m]> so 1 its pretty much safe?
21:46:12 <likhujy[m]> i mean to double spend you have to make 51 attack..
21:47:03 <RavFX[m]> 1 should be safe but it's good measure to wait more (if these is a split or something)
21:47:03 <RavFX[m]> one extra block of waiting or you have to maintain that 51 % attack for longer AND have to mine all the blocks during the attack
21:48:45 <merope> There's a thing called "chain reorg" - basically, miners end up mining two different blocks for the same height at the same time (typically by accident), so the chain is temporarily "split up"
21:48:45 <Lovera[m]> What is the tdlr with video animate ?
21:48:45 <RavFX[m]> Lovera[m]: We got scammed as I understand
21:48:45 <merope> At some point, one of the two chains will prevail and the other will be discarded
21:48:57 <Lovera[m]> RavFX[m]: Fuck 
21:49:48 <merope> So if some txes were only added in the discarded chain but not in the winning one, they will "disappear"
21:49:48 <likhujy[m]> man that sounds complicated
21:50:11 <merope> So if you really wanna make sure that that doesn't happen to you (as a receiver), you wait a few more confirmations
21:50:11 <likhujy[m]> didnt know anything about "chain reorg"
21:50:40 <likhujy[m]> how tf can they mine 2 different block?
21:51:49 <merope> likhujy[m]: For a regular user, not really. You just send your tx as usual and wait until the wallet shows that it was confirmed X blocks ago, that's it
21:51:49 <RavFX[m]> likhujy[m]: it's a decentralized network.
21:51:49 <RavFX[m]> It's not impossible that two miners at opposite side of the world mine a block about in the same time.
21:51:49 <RavFX[m]> miner1 send it's mined block to the network
21:51:49 <RavFX[m]> miner2 send it's mined block to the network 9ms later because it did not see the block from miner1
21:53:52 <merope> likhujy[m]: Blockchain data is sent from node to node across the whole world. Some have slower connections, or high latency, or very slow peers - so it takes a little while before everybody is on the same page
21:53:53 <likhujy[m]> well thanks for the explanaiton
21:53:53 <merope> We're talking about 10-20 seconds from one end of the network to the other - but since the target block time is 120 seconds, the probability that this happens is actually not that low
21:53:53 <merope> But nodes and wallets usually handle this stuff automatically 
22:52:38 <merope> So you won't even see it most of the time, unless you're specifically looking for it
22:52:38 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Double mine
22:52:56 <moneraut[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "moneraut:  https://gitlab.com/..." <- Thx
22:59:15 <moneraut[m]> For this video the visuals are really great but there are some scenes where the blue, orange cubes against a background of black, white and blue cubes that is really hard to see.
23:00:47 <moneraut[m]> 0:50 to be exact