00:00:23 <revuoxmr> Revuo Monero Issue 162: March 4 - 11, 2023. http://revuo-xmr.com/issue-162.html
00:00:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Damn gatekeepers 
00:01:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Whatever you do, dont say anything bad about in orogrrwss ccs 
00:01:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its against my feelings 
00:02:27 <DanIsnotthemanBr> monero-hardware room seems busy
00:03:29 <Stnby[m]> <plowsof11> "sponsor a monero sail , to..." <- That would certainly happen
00:03:50 <Stnby[m]> We have many races a season
00:04:26 <Stnby[m]> And lots of pictures/occasionally some films
00:12:45 <Stnby[m]> I could not find previous monero sail
00:13:20 <Stnby[m]> * monero sail pictures
00:53:11 <geonic> the guy had posted them in that thread but they're no longer there
00:54:04 <geonic> it did happen
00:58:22 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Fake ledger
01:00:18 <revuoxmr> Revuo Monero Issue 162: March 4 - 11, 2023. https://http://revuo-xmr.com/issue-162.html
01:30:06 <Stnby[m]> <geonic> "the guy had posted them in..." <- Ive seen twitter images of a small sticler on the boat itself and some sail pictures but horrid quality
01:59:22 <plowsof11> revuoxmr sir 
02:29:28 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Maybe design your own?
03:21:45 <dsmlegend[m]> <Mister[m]> "Yeah that is basically a scam..." <- I've asked the (allegedly ai) voice actor via reddit to join in here to submit himself to an audio turing test. I of course agree that using an ai voice and passing it off as a human performance is problematic but I will admit that it fooled me if that were the case. Hopefully he'll chime in and settle this question either way.
03:30:39 <dsmlegend[m]> <Lovera[m]> "And where is this people? We..." <- Sorry, the meeting times are not generally friendly to the Australian time zones. I try to keep up with mentions of the project now and then. It seems savandra is not as responsive here anymore, after the ...unwelcome reception he experienced. We do have a separate room set up for reaching us more easily and maintaining a contained thread on the topic.
07:19:00 <monerooo[m]> <dani-g5x[m]1> "No I mean, since Monero is..." <- https://youtube.com/watch?v=lUzNtA_kB8g A very good explanation, unfortunately only in German. Maybe it can be translated, but I am not the creator of the video.
10:42:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> > I think this is a good idea. I don't know why the accuracy police keeps mentioning $1000/min,... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/3085dc98de61deb945aa98a20c8efb283044c3fd>)
10:48:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> > I've asked the (allegedly ai) voice actor via reddit to join in here to submit himself to an audio turing test. I of course agree that using an ai voice and passing it off as a human performance is problematic but I will admit that it fooled me if that were the case.
10:48:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Fooled me too, but I never paid much attention to the voice, only the script.
10:48:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> I thought voice was an improvement over whever came before (ai on that eye in cage video)
10:58:19 <plowsof11> plowsof over here acting like he's an expert on on human / ai voices to deflect from that fact he's a robot himself.  As soon as i heard "Free from middlemen interference" at 0:17 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=XJ6p-7GTMdo im doubtful 
10:59:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> ... secret: me and plowsof cant be on moneromeet at the same time
10:59:03 <plowsof11> im not gunna talk about cadence etc because im not a voice expert 
10:59:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> * on moneromeet/live at
11:00:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Regardless if the voice us ai.. even when the voice was literally Microsoft Sam, my biggest concern is the script, because the animations dont convey anything but pretty bouncy and noise
11:01:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sam is OK, because then we can just TL all the videos.
11:01:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> But cant TL anything if info is bad 
11:07:19 <plowsof11> yes an ai voice has its advantages. hopefully we get the raw files for video one 'FOSS' (when someone says this -> 'we have hired a real voice actor now, so you're full of shit mate, he's sitting right next to me now' ok great)
11:08:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> The video is 2mins instead of 4, so video 1 milestone cant even be paid as written. Good point by DSM about needing to prorate iy
11:08:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Look. Im still willing to pay 9xmr for that 2mins of pain, and closing the ccs.
11:09:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> 9 = the entire milestone 1
11:09:47 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Tax deductible?
11:09:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> 4.5 xmr = what they delivered on video 1 (only 2 mins long)
11:12:39 <plowsof11> why didint they ask for video 1 funds upfront so they can hire outside help to produce the video (e.g. the fictional script writer that made adjustments was paid out of pocket)
11:14:05 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Didnt think it through i guess
11:14:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because they land grandiose claims about 1000/min 
11:19:48 <plowsof11> we're getting 1000/min at a discounted rate was my thoughts, i was amazed 
11:21:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> Thats why nobody checked. I cant blame DSM for the ccs being structured the way it is.
11:21:02 <plowsof11> the ccs was displaying 1000/min on the funding required page for some time because they didn't update the real file with the new rates iirc and still contained a google docs link to the script document 
11:21:18 <plowsof11> or.. didnt actually have a link* it just took you to the youtube channel 
11:21:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Considering DSM wrote 5 scripts, and savandra has mins of animations
11:21:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> 4.5xmr to savandra, 4.5xmr to DSM. Close the ccs
11:21:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> dsmlegend: 
11:23:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> 10% of ccs goes to script development, thats 4.5xmr to dsm for work done.
11:24:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> And 4.5 to savandra aka proposer, because were not moving forward. 4.5xmr is above value for 2mins of video
11:25:43 <DanIsnotthemanBr> End of video proposals
11:25:47 <DanIsnotthemanBr> :/
11:27:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nah. End of shitty video proposals
11:28:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> > In about an hour the new 0.34 testnet of Townforge will start 🥹 https://townforge.net/v0-34-0-0-at-last
11:28:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> - Rucknium: 
11:49:57 <ajs_[m]> retweet pls, thx https://twitter.com/MoneroKon/status/1634883566273454084?s=20
12:03:06 <dsmlegend[m]> I'm not sure what the actual procedure is for reaching consensus on prematurely closing off unabandoned CCS projects, when the existing progress is not to the liking of some people. So, in lieu of on established protocol, my suggestion would be to first gauge the general public reception of video 1. 
12:03:06 <dsmlegend[m]> Frankly, it's not so surprising that some devs would be displeased at a simplified promo. In my personal professional field researchers often grumble at how the promo material doesn't do the underlying work justice in this or that way.
12:03:06 <dsmlegend[m]> Let's see if indeed the observed impression after publication is that the wider community is unhappy about the project and feel as though they have been scammed. If so, put it up for a vote with whoever has authority over the CCS, on whether it should be closed out. 
12:03:06 <dsmlegend[m]> We've already seen some positive remarks both here and on reddit, so some people evidently are pleased. Just today one guy already posted a new merchant adoption and seemed to at least partially credited the existing material. The naysayers have been few, though contributed a disproportionately large volume of commentary. 
12:08:04 <Siren[m]> I've also seen that today https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/11p6ai1/coffee_shop_in_perth_australia_taking_xmr_payment/jbwc8in/
12:16:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Btw,  we often think of the payment process as painful in cryoto
12:16:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> But there is a new feature in my wise app that is essentially identical to using crypto
12:17:39 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (142KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/mvjPENOcPQtVZHpqusPUhsMt/fsbpaasvn6890foj.jpg >
12:28:35 <Siren[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "But there is a new feature in my..." <- Offline Visa/MasterCard transactions feature also
12:30:27 <Siren[m]> Afaik crypto did it first
12:30:52 <Siren[m]> And it's at a experimental stage for visa/mastercard lol
12:31:21 <Siren[m]> I had a dream where I was paying for a sandwich with monero on a plane before
12:32:58 <Siren[m]> <Siren[m]> "I've also seen that today https:..." <- A promotional video with real life demonstration of someone accepting monero would also be good.
12:33:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> I brought this up with someone ^^
12:33:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Geonic should film us a commercial"
12:33:51 <Siren[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Selling meth using Monero GUI wallet PoS mode
12:35:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Haha
12:35:38 <Siren[m]> Hey maybe I'll arrange something for metronero
12:35:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> I was referring the the quality of the recordings could name for a good monero commercial / ad
12:35:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> Make* for a good
12:37:57 <Siren[m]> Siren[m]: I have some friends that might be interested in writing a script and filming it as well. Not sure if they have the equipment tho lol.
13:05:14 <plowsof11> i've seen how [insert other crypto coin/communities] make local adoption videos. usually starts off with someone showing a huge pile of tablets that are having the [insert crypto coins] point-of-sale app installed. and they then go door to door ob-boarding merchants and giving them these free point of sale things 
13:05:26 <plowsof11> s/ob-/on-
13:15:30 <monerobull[m]> Not possible anymore 
13:15:41 <monerobull[m]> Maybe when a raspberry pi was 34$
13:15:46 <monerobull[m]> s/34/35/
13:16:00 <monerobull[m]> ./s
13:16:21 <monerobull[m]> Hotshop with a cheap phone-based Post could work
13:32:47 <Siren[m]> <monerobull[m]> "Maybe when a raspberry pi was 34..." <- Orange/mango/banana pi are still affordable 
13:32:54 <Siren[m]> Who cares about raspberry pi
13:33:14 <Siren[m]> Rock pi also
13:33:27 <monerobull[m]> yeah i have a rockpi
13:33:57 <monerobull[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/11p6ai1/coffee_shop_in_perth_australia_taking_xmr_payment/
13:33:59 <Siren[m]> <plowsof11> "i've seen how [insert other..." <- Got an example? This wasn't what I had in mind but sounds lmao
13:35:48 <plowsof11> i will have a look, it was mark falzons friend for BCH adoption in... somewhere 
13:36:10 <ceetee[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Btw,  we often think of the..." <- every time I have to use PayPal I wish it were crypto. for PayPal I need to login, 2fa, manually enter email, enter amount hit send and a bunch of additional BS in between. With crypto its scan & send and at least 3x as fast
13:38:15 <plowsof11> ^^^^^ i dont know my password but if you show me the requirements (1 special char / 2 capital letters ) i will know what i would have input - but to get here i need to get it wrong 3 times and be locked out ... the UX of using some fiat banking apps (especially when yo uwant to send someone money is horrible)
13:38:45 <moneraut[m]> ceetee[m]: I hope there will be a time that financial network is neutral and easy to log in. Paypal blocked me in 2013 for buying btc 
13:39:03 <ceetee[m]> I hope that PayPal dies
13:39:26 <ceetee[m]> \> middleman not needed
13:39:41 <ceetee[m]> they are even worse leeches than visa/mastercard
13:45:56 <plowsof11> Siren for example https://yewtu.be/watch?v=_x5m-GlAzO4 (i cant find the exact video im thinking of atm)
14:03:03 <plowsof11> reg 'cancelling an ongoing ccs where the proposers are here / 'doing things' dsmlegend - my palms are getting sweaty already. we've got a hybrid of "xmrSale" and "SoloptXMR" going on here. Russian/Ukraine conflict began on Feb 24th (which would arguably negate the proposals expiration date of June 7th). Should we have given the contract to someone else at that point knowing it was unrealistic to meet the deadline? is it our fault for
14:03:03 <plowsof11> not checking up on this proposal sooner?.. fast forward 11 months, we discover fictional authors have been hired to help polish scripts / "a friend" has been hired to do/help with the animations / "an eye ball bag of flesh" and accusation of using an AI voice (when voice overs where budgeted for) / concerns over the script / video being 2 minutes instead of 4 
14:08:42 <dsmlegend[m]> <plowsof11> "reg 'cancelling an ongoing ccs..." <- I may have misunderstood but I thought that deadline was the funding deadline. As in, when to give up on the project if the funding goal was not reached before the date. 
14:08:42 <dsmlegend[m]> We've gone over some of these topics before. Getting an outside writer to polish the script was a suggestion that I took from this group.
14:08:42 <dsmlegend[m]> I don't see the shorter video as an issue. I already suggested a very simple solution if there is a fear that the minutes won't be rolled over into later videos. 
14:09:27 <Siren[m]> Let's not artificially stretch the video to 4 mins. 2 mins might be just enough.
14:09:32 <Siren[m]> But payout should be less.
14:09:42 <plowsof11> as far as gauging consensus, how would that happen? a vote on something could take place e.g. "pay for video 1 and close the ccs" and those for/against could discuss the pros/cons / possible mitigations for concerns e.g. your suggestion of pro rata. i see 2 merchants already who have mentioned your work in 'being on boarded' for accepting Monero, but we have members who supported this proposal (helped get it to funding stage) express
14:09:42 <plowsof11> their dissatisfaction with how its going, they can not be ignored now, but paid attention to when they thumbed up the proposal.  
14:11:46 <plowsof11> if an animation team popped out of thin air, with a portfolio behind them saying "we can make x videos using the remaining funds of this proposal" then 'cancelling an ongoing ccs' would be 'easier' (see AcceptXMR taking over xmrSale)
14:12:27 <Siren[m]> I think keeping it open but extending the delivery date and also lowering the hourly rate should also be an option. It might have been a bumpy ride but I'm actually quite satisfied with the animation.
14:12:48 <plowsof11> ive counted, maybe 4 .. or 7 people who have expressed a negative sentiment to the entire proposal 
14:14:17 <plowsof11> i am also satisfied with the animation.. jiggly shiny bouncy things with permissive licenses to be used by content producers +1 (thats why i ask for the raw files / just animations no text on screen)
14:23:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> <Siren[m]> "I think keeping it open but..." <- All of this = close the ccs
14:24:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> And reopen a new one with the new, accurate, proposed rates 
14:24:25 <dsmlegend[m]> <plowsof11> "as far as gauging consensus, how..." <- I'm merely suggesting we take the broader reception into consideration before further looking at the idea of cancelling it. If a good amount of people like it heaps then perhaps it doesn't matter if others don't. 
14:24:25 <dsmlegend[m]> If you followed the events from the start, you'll see that I was asked to help out because I responded to a call for input. At no point was I involved in any funding discussion and in fact didn't even know I was going to get any cut until I saw the proposal on gitlab. I am invested mostly because it is a product which I would really like to exist. It's not like there is an ample supply of this category of content. 
14:24:25 <dsmlegend[m]> The other fact to consider is that if an alt team suddenly appeared, more XMR would have to be raised now for the same rate because the funding has lost some real value.
14:27:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> The amount of xmr needed should reflect the quality of the output.
14:27:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> A different team (or the same team) =/= more, but should accurately reflect the quality being quoted. 
14:27:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Again, im for closing, paying video 1. We shouldn't "we'll do better in video 2, and even better in 3".
14:28:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> All of the videos should reflect the same level of professionalism and quality for the amount being commissioned for the job. Not "first one is bumpy, 5th is finally perfect"
14:28:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> More like, when we get to the quality of 5, open a ccs
14:39:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Video 1 low quality and 50% of quoted length =/= 9xmr... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/f3893400d6e583d12f231dd7e46ca741b6685785>)
14:42:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Keep milestones the same, pay out milestone 1, and move forward 🤷‍♂️
16:15:31 <plowsof11> central point to discuss these ideas https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/379 
17:07:46 <plowsof11> rbrunner7 has proposed a "design review meeting" for the seraphis migration / no wallet left behind team https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/377#note_20862 
17:09:09 <plowsof11> tobtoht of feather wallet has been making issues / pull requests to the monero core / gui repo to help the migration effort that should not go un-noticed 👍️ 
17:09:39 <rbrunner> Hmmm. Some of the animations in that video made me a bit dizzy. That "floor" with dozens of moving blocks is somehow too much for my old brain. But yeah, not too bad in general.
20:22:49 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Sounds like when i use to play doom3d
22:37:15 <Lovera[m]> https://blog.talosintelligence.com/prometei-botnet-improves/
22:37:28 <Lovera[m]> Prometei bullish on Monero
22:43:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> stratum+tcp://103.65.236[.]53:80 -u 4A1txQ9L8h8NqF4EtGsZDP5vRN3yTVKynbkyP1jvCiDajNLPepPbBdrbaqBu8fCTcFEFdCtgbekSsTf17B1MhyE2AKCEyfR -p x --donate-level 1
22:44:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Donate turned on 😁
23:04:09 <monerobull[m]> Cute