14:01:12 <sgp[m]> Meetup coming later this month in Luxembourg: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/12ivknw/luxembourg_meetup_with_a_free_round_of_beer/
16:07:01 <plowsof11> Flatpak monero-gui stats (linked by BigmenPixel  on their CCS proposal) https://beta.flathub.org/apps/org.getmonero.Monero 
16:14:29 <plowsof11> we will have the option of getting a twitter 'blue tick' like OBS. but, it depends if the community wants this (flathub servers are still third party) https://beta.flathub.org/apps/com.obsproject.Studio
16:21:37 <kinghat[m]> thats not what the verified status is meant to convey. its meant to convey that the person uploading this flatpak is whom they say they are.
16:22:03 <kinghat[m]> s/uploading/controlling/
16:22:14 <plowsof11> ah right, true, the "uploader of the files" is legit 
16:23:18 <plowsof11> i mean that we have "created a page at https://getmonero.org/.well-known/org.flathub.VerifiedApps.txt containing a token" 
16:24:51 <plowsof11> thats it kinghat nothin' more nothin' less , it doesnt ensure the integrity of the files there. we still must confirm hashes. which is possible. thats why im saying its optional 
16:25:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> right
16:25:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> its ok
16:25:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> we'll host our own repo
16:25:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> not using flathub
16:26:53 <kinghat[m]> i still think the tokens should be in the hands of core/maintainers. the token on the website will be public, not sure about the repo one. for sure they should be in more than one persons hands in case of bus.
16:27:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> thats bad
16:27:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> its not 2fa 
16:27:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> its a master key
16:27:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> cant just not know who let it leak
16:28:10 <kinghat[m]> eventually someone else will have to get involved as it needs to be add to the website repo so 🤷‍♂️
16:28:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> wre hosting our own repo. anything else is a waste of time
16:29:47 <kinghat[m]> we dont host our own repos of all the paces our packages are distributed. including github.
16:30:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> getmonero.org anyone? lol
16:30:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> flathub.com anyone? smh
16:31:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> ubuntu.com
16:31:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> facepalm
16:31:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> "all", except for all
16:31:48 <plowsof11> they will be sent directly to someone from Core - thats the best due diligence we can do on our end. bigmenpixel's ccs is to get it to the core repo (improvement 1) which comes with hashes people can trust / check (improvement 2) - and maintain it for a year. getting a server / with bandwidth is going to take (time N) during which slave labour will be happening
16:32:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> eassssssyy
16:32:27 <plowsof11> ok lets wait for it to happen 
16:32:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> :D
16:32:55 <kinghat[m]> core could take over control of the flathub account 🤷‍♂️
16:32:58 <plowsof11> monero core team hello set this up on a server with enough bandwidth https://github.com/flatpak/flat-manager . find someone to maintain it also 
16:33:26 <plowsof11> 99% uptime or else
16:33:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> same uptime as getmonero
16:33:49 <plowsof11> getmonero binaries where hacked already so why would we trust getmonero 
16:34:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://docs.flatpak.org/en/latest/hosting-a-repository.html
16:35:22 <plowsof11> download file from getmonero = check hashes. same as flathub
16:35:31 <plowsof11> and we can leach of their servers for free
16:36:01 <kinghat[m]> manually hosting the repository for anything other than a beta is a non starter. im not saying it shouldnt be done, and probably should for backup, but its like saying the monero gui android build should never be on the play store and only self hosted repo.
16:36:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> do flathub hashes match gitian builds?
16:36:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> kinghat[m]: how?
16:36:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> flathub is literally manualy hosting arepo
16:36:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> fedora, rpm fusion repos
16:37:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> theres plenty of self hosted repos. lol.
16:37:49 <kinghat[m]> mebbe we are thinking of different things. flathub is 3rd party to "us" but first party to everyone else.
16:37:53 <nioc> <plowsof11> getmonero binaries where hacked already so why would we trust getmonero <<>> that attack vector has been fixed™
16:38:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> kinghat[m]: no it isnt
16:38:31 <kinghat[m]> whats your question?
16:38:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> it flathub even enabled in kubuntu by default? or fedora? no
16:39:00 <kinghat[m]> yes
16:39:05 <xmrscott[m]> Actually, Fedora yes
16:39:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> its a third party app store
16:39:17 <xmrscott[m]> <- heavy Fedora user
16:39:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> flatgub has to be enabled in fedora iirc
16:39:27 <plowsof11> lol
16:39:39 <plowsof11> <- recovering former windows user 
16:40:03 <xmrscott[m]> Fedora has a FOSS-only filter for legal reasons by default that you can override, but it does include Flathub by default and it's easy to remove the filter
16:40:25 <kinghat[m]> bro jqpublic isnt going to setup a special repository for their internet money
16:40:33 <xmrscott[m]> They are looking to remove that filter I believe either with Fedora 38 this month, or next release in October
16:40:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah, you click the button that adds the repo
16:40:50 <chesterfield[m]> > tips Fedora
16:41:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> which is the same as any other third party repo
16:41:41 <kinghat[m]> im not against hosting a monero flatpak repo, but im against not putting it on flathub as well.
16:41:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://flatpak.org/setup/Fedora
16:42:16 <kinghat[m]> the people who want to make sure it come directly from monero can go through the trouble to add the special repo.
16:42:35 <kinghat[m]> s/come/comes/
16:42:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Flatpak is installed by default on Fedora Workstation, Fedora Silverblue, and Fedora Kinoite. To get started, all you need to do is enable Flathub, which is the best way to get Flatpak apps. Just download and install the .
16:42:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> flatpak repository file*
16:43:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> kinghat[m]: its a button press
16:43:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> easier than downloading the zip
16:43:36 <RavFX> Easier... As long as you have systemd
16:43:39 <kinghat[m]> its the default next build
16:44:29 <kinghat[m]> imagine working on getting an official monero gui working on android and then told it cant be on the play store and can only be used from fdroid.
16:44:32 <kinghat[m]> miss me with that shit
16:44:51 <xmrscott[m]> I think kinghat's point though is making it as easy as possible to download Monero w/o having to add a source repository to your package manager. It's not hard, but it just needlessly reduces accessibility
16:45:43 <kinghat[m]> also, wtf is the point of the flatpak then? just go get the damn binary from gh and install it yourself grandma!
16:45:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> currently > go to germnero.org
16:46:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> current flatpak is known, but could have been from anyone
16:46:10 <xmrscott[m]> And they're right, everyone gets what they want. People who want Certified^TM bins can add the Monero repo. Those who just search Monero can grab it instantly w/o having to do much of anything
16:46:13 <chesterfield[m]> We need to get Monero GUI installed as the default money app for Ubuntu
16:46:18 <chesterfield[m]> Someone make a PR
16:46:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> proposed > go to getmonero.org once
16:46:31 <xmrscott[m]> * of anything from Flathub
16:46:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> xmrscott[m]: im all for keeping on flathub
16:46:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> but not as a solution
16:46:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> just as a convenience
16:47:16 <plowsof11> short term improvement on what we have no , bigmenpixel will take care of us 
16:47:18 <plowsof11> what we have now*
16:47:46 <plowsof11> he has fathered 24k monero gui children so far 
16:47:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah, but ultimately a wash
16:48:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> nobody cares if its verified, or checks hashes of it, or cared to confirm it was good
16:48:32 <xmrscott[m]> Ok good. So long as Monero isn't removed from Flathub I don't really care mind the other pieces 😀
16:48:43 <xmrscott[m]> * really care or mind the
16:48:45 <RavFX> Would be nice if Monero where in distrib repo or easily that for sure. Grabing it on getmonero work but considering monero is available in the Windows package manager I don't see why we don't have official build for most Linux flavor. It's a convenience like ofrn said, Users like to be able to grab there binary from a single source for there distrib
16:49:02 <MajesticBank> monero = Crypto OG = debian repo, in my eyes, I can't believe we can maintain such complex systems and math and not debian repo ( that can be used on different distros later )
16:49:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> vrypto og = debian?
16:50:01 <xmrscott[m]> Part of that was process. Monero forks at one point required 6 month updates otherwise you'd be on the wrong chain. Debian stable doesn't really move at a pace to easily allow for that
16:50:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> i thought crpto peeps bilt from source
16:50:23 <RavFX> maybe because Debian usually have OG package version lol
16:50:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> yeah lolol
16:50:58 <plowsof11> flatpak is monero gui straight into the vein (if the user so wishes)
16:51:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> flatpak = easy upgrades. simple as that.
16:51:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> we push as soon as we want
16:52:20 <RavFX> Only systemd enabled distrib. We also need appimages for people who want to just download and run without having to install crust on there crust-free OS.
16:53:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> we dont have real app images
16:53:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> we have binaries 
16:53:08 <MajesticBank> not against flatpak, just find it irrelevant, I heard monero is on flatpak because of the CCS, thats much how it is relevant
16:53:56 <plowsof11> its a means of distributing things to noobs , and it  does it quite well
16:53:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> its already on flathub*
16:53:57 <xmrscott[m]> It's been on Flatpak via Flathub for like 2 years, before the CCS.
16:53:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> just not officially in any form
16:54:55 <xmrscott[m]> The wins are it makes updates super easy because it updates Monero alongside your other packages and it opens up Monero to being installed on a lot more distros very easily
16:54:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> and again, flathub =/= flatpak
16:55:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> its just the biggest centralized app store for flatpaks
16:55:24 <plowsof11> flathub = github flatpak=git 
16:55:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> flathub = whatever they point the server to
16:56:01 <xmrscott[m]> For example, Fedora Silverblue and Fedora Kinoite both expect apps to be installed via Flatpak format, so this is the only sensible way to install on those Fedora systems. Pop OS another arguably major OS has Flathub enabled by default, etc
16:56:04 <plowsof11> similar comparison, but yeah, its the main flatpak repo 
16:56:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> flatpak =/= flathub
16:56:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> flatpak is a format. flahub is one (the biggest) of many repos
16:59:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> id argue flathub is sus af
16:59:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> lets anybody submit anything (?)
16:59:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> oh look, its gnome screenshot utility
16:59:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> by gn0me 
16:59:44 <xmrscott[m]> It doesn't approve any and all though, there's an approval process ran by humans
16:59:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> how did gui get in
17:00:07 <xmrscott[m]> There's also a flag for officially supported / maintained packages
17:00:13 <xmrscott[m]> I literally asked moo and others for permission to add on Flathub for Big
17:00:35 <plowsof11> OBS at least shows some of the 'market pull/share' (hundreats of thousands of installs. Its possible a "MonterinoWallet" can appear on flathub. in this case , having our Monero app "verified" is good
17:01:18 <plowsof11> but flatpaks are again all built from source n shiz so its not the wild west 
17:01:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> i dont remember what, but i recently had to figure out which flatpak was the real one for some app
17:01:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> all im saying is being on flathub =/= a requirement 
17:03:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> if one day flathub got hacked and died, its no different than any other flatpak repo getting hacked
17:04:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> its also weirdly centralized
17:05:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> im sure they use load balancing geo servers, but with debian etc other entities host mirrors
17:07:10 <xmrscott[m]> No more centralized than Arch's AUR, etc
17:07:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unofficial_mirrors
17:08:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://archlinux.org/mirrors/status/
17:08:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> im just googling here 
17:09:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> so yes, more centralized
17:09:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1 is less than multiple 
17:10:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/DeveloperWiki:NewMirrors
17:10:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> official mirrors arent run by "arch" but by others
17:12:38 <xmrscott[m]> Sure, but because Flathub is basically just a collection of yaml and json manifests on git, anyone can mirror too
17:13:21 * xmrscott[m] uploaded an image: (45KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/YSVBFNEborYQkBSbobVLjYcO/image.png >
20:09:10 <plowsof11> Thanks dEBRUYNE ! reddit release thread selsta https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/12js9ub/monero_gui_01822_fluorine_fermi_released/
20:13:59 <DanIsnotthemanBr> How can i see the list of ips that dns-blacklist uses in monerod?
20:14:44 <rbrunner> I wrote something like an ELI5 explanation of the size limit, but of course it was shot down by some filter and is currently invisible
20:14:50 <plowsof11> https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block.txt
20:14:56 <rbrunner> Can some Reddit moderator please release it: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/12jsaft/monero_cli_01822_fluorine_fermi_released/jg046w4/
20:14:59 <rbrunner> Thanks!
20:15:47 <plowsof11> monerobullplease sir?
20:16:27 <rbrunner> I know that these filters are absolutely essential nowadays, but man, it feels like every damn post longer than 10 lines or so has at least 1 "forbidden" word in it :(
20:17:40 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Must of used s***
20:22:53 <dEBRUYNE> rbrunner: I've approved it
20:23:53 <plowsof11> double thanks!
22:53:36 <plowsof11> a 21 xmr donation to the general fund today https://nitter.it/WatchFund/status/1646130439306854400 
23:39:19 <geonic> nice