00:32:48 <RavFX[m]> Yeah, best solution is to not contribute to tor. Unfortunate but yeah...
00:32:48 <RavFX[m]> I am thinking of a solution to game the Tor exitnode list, maybe I could go around that if I get 2 IP on the VPS and so some iptable & multi internet gateway kungfu
00:32:48 <RavFX[m]> NIC 1 all tor traffic
00:32:48 <RavFX[m]> NIC 2 all internet traffic that is not related to tor (but people using the exit node would endup on that side once they are out of tor)
02:22:20 <fr33_yourself[m]> <ofrnxmr[m]> "I2p is safer for me to contribut..." <- ofrnxmr, how would you compare the privacy of running a monero node over tor versus running a monero node over i2p? Which keeps the node more private from one's ISP?
06:31:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> you cant do Blockchain sync from behind i2p (currently).
06:31:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> i got blocked off from the network numerous times due to tor exit node ip being detectable
06:34:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> if were talking about onions and eepsites, imo i2p is again the superior option for privacy.
06:34:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> the real trick is how much academic research has gone into tor vs i2p, and i2p seems to be far polished
06:34:17 <fr33_yourself[m]> so clearnet is actually best, with node inside/behind tor being second best
06:34:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> i2pd outproxy has been broken for 2yrs
06:35:36 <fr33_yourself[m]> i mean if they come get me for running monerod i guess they get me then 😜
06:35:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> for privacy, and i2p + onion + (clearnet)exit nodes) would be best abd most reliable
06:36:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> we dont allow blockchain sync over onion or i2p though, so currently the only option is exit nodes vs clearnet
06:37:32 <fr33_yourself[m]> what do people in china who want to run monerod do? are they just 2 sigma for mr. xi and run it over clear net, zero hedge and no feds come knocking at their door?
06:39:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ^ i need to figure out a way for monero to allow block sync over anon networks.
06:39:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> we dont want to partition any of the 3 networks, (have users run i2p-only nodes and get cutoff from clearnet nodes)
06:40:47 <fr33_yourself[m]> I can see at least 30ish clear net nodes in China, so probably the ccp isn't coming and raiding their devices yet just for using monerod right?
06:41:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> ccs probably running the nodes
06:41:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> ccp
06:41:55 <fr33_yourself[m]> how do you think most sophisticated chinese monero users operate? Or are they non existant
06:42:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> rare, but they use webwallets
06:43:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> a lot of non-english speaking, oppressed peoples are using scamwallets
06:43:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> thats why were pushing for lws integration
06:43:40 <fr33_yourself[m]> webwallets are for brainlets right
06:43:54 <fr33_yourself[m]> surely they use their onion relays like feather or smthng no
06:44:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> well,considering theyre almost all scams, yes
06:44:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> xmrwallet/freewallet or whatever
06:45:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> fr33_yourself[m]: of course some do, but i see a lot ofmisdirected folks
06:45:40 <fr33_yourself[m]> so you don't think there are people using the gui, cli, or feather in china? presumably they wouldn't use mobile devices becuase privacy is too bad but hey maybe they use cake there. maybe cake isn't listed in the app store
07:06:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> gui feather etc is going to rat on you to the state
07:07:19 <ofrnxmr[m]> users are using web wallets over tor
07:08:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> pretty sure chinese phones flag monerujo as harmful 
09:54:27 <vostoemisio[m]> <fr33_yourself[m]> "I can see at least 30ish clear..." <- No they don't
09:54:57 <vostoemisio[m]> <fr33_yourself[m]> "so you don't think there are..." <- There is no problem using gui from mainland china
09:59:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> I guess i just talk to the ones with tinfoil
10:00:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> I also heard iran blocks ports at the isp level / you need permission to open em. i wonder how true that is
10:32:30 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Yeah i heard that firewalld
10:32:55 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Like there internet is intranet
10:36:13 <monerobull[m]> has anyone here used nym for anything ever?
10:36:25 <monerobull[m]> i cant figure out wtf it costs to use
10:36:41 <monerobull[m]> to me that makes it look like nobody is actually using the mixnet
10:39:30 <DanIsnotthemanBr> https://nymtech.net/about/
10:39:30 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Users pay a fee in NYM to send their data through the mixnet
10:39:47 <monerobull[m]> i get that, what is that fee???
10:40:18 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Like nym cost?
10:40:22 <monerobull[m]> yeah
10:41:03 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Dunno
10:41:12 <DanIsnotthemanBr> I hate staking
10:41:13 <monerobull[m]> thats why im asking
10:41:24 <Rucknium[m]> I think using Nym is free for now
10:41:28 <monerobull[m]> really sus that there is zero information on pricing anywhere
10:41:47 <monerobull[m]> Rucknium[m]: they really should mention that somewhere
10:42:00 <Rucknium[m]> They will start charging fees once you get hooked
10:42:12 <monerobull[m]> they have all this info about how much youll make as a node operator but zero on pricing for users
10:42:24 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Yeah
10:42:57 <monerobull[m]> their documentation says youll permanently loose your entire bond when unbonding a node
10:43:09 <monerobull[m]> so that sounds sus too lmao
10:43:41 <Rucknium[m]> The point off all that is to have high performance high uptime mixnet nodes.
10:43:50 <monerobull[m]> 🔫 you WILL stay mixing our traffic 
10:44:45 <monerobull[m]> Rucknium[m]: not letting people leave at all is very weird though
10:45:37 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Yeah released every quarter it says
10:45:46 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Like a term deposit
10:48:10 <monerobull[m]> i thought that are the token unlocks for early investors, team, etc
11:02:55 <Rucknium[m]> Never allowing unbonding would be nonsensical. If that's the rule, then the node runners are not very bright. I have not read the token incentive part of the Nym white paper
11:04:28 <DanIsnotthemanBr> Reading the white paper. Looks like you Just buying bandwidth. And mixing nodes have an auction on price per packet
14:55:55 <monerobull[m]> So a government entity could run nodes for free and get all the traffic?
15:10:07 <esac212[m]> Sorry to disturb but I need help with solving this cryptocurrency equation:
15:10:07 <esac212[m]> USDT(ERC20) --> X(via DEX) --> Y* --> XMR
15:10:07 <esac212[m]> Y* - is optional
15:10:07 <esac212[m]> What X to choose as an intermediary to minimize fees. X should stay on the Ethereum network while Y* can be anything. 
15:16:15 <esac212[m]> To answer a question why to use any intermediaries at all: I have a bad feeling about USDT and upcoming regulations and I don't want to associate any USDT addresses with XMR.
15:23:33 <someoneelse49549> There isn't a lot of ERC that are cheap in fees. And I'm sorry but I don't think you'll find a lot of people that actually uses ethereum on this channel
15:24:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> <esac212[m]> "To answer a question why to..." <- Huh
15:25:01 <esac212[m]> MiCA
15:25:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Just buy your xmr and be happy
15:25:08 <someoneelse49549> lol
15:25:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can buy it with a credit card wutbthey gonna do
15:25:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Prove it?
15:25:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Have fun proving i own the xmr i bought
15:26:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> or is the problem that you want tk try to use surveillance coins to buy illegal goods?
15:26:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> In public
15:27:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Should probably stick to non-surveillance money
15:27:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Heck, even a bank transfer doesnt tell anyone what you bought 
15:27:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> So fiat > xmr on localmonero 
15:27:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Done
15:28:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> Skip the shitcoins
15:28:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like adding trackers to your car before you go buy drugs
15:32:11 <esac212[m]> Fiat is the last resort option. I'm using USDT just because most people who actively use cryptocurrencies today prefer to pay and receive payments in stable coins and don't know shit about privacy. 
15:32:42 <esac212[m]> They also store USDT in banks.......
15:37:48 <someoneelse49549> (there is too many dots behind banks.........)
15:47:46 <esac212[m]> ...... And they think they're doing decentralized finances. God, maybe I should just quit and forget about this cursed field before 2024 :) 
15:52:47 <geonic> <ofrnxmr[m]> “You can buy it with a credit card wutbthey gonna do” <- this is my take too but I think we’re in the minority
15:53:34 <geonic> I wish you guys had the NYM discussion 2 days ago. could’ve asked them about it during their monerotopia pannel
15:54:02 <nioc> I think they might be at Monerokon
15:54:19 <nioc> lemme check
15:55:33 <Rucknium[m]> geonic: I did bring up the govt-runs-nodes Sybil issue in the virtual conference chat. Speaking into the wind :(
15:55:50 <jollyboy[m]> best ubuntu wallet for litecoin? (for the purpose of swapping to XMR)
15:55:55 <geonic> ugh, sorry
15:56:52 <Rucknium[m]> A govt Sybil attack would increase the token price IMHO. An ironic outcome for a system that is supposed to be resistant to SYbil due to economic incentives.
15:58:01 <geonic> honestly I stopped reading at VC-funded. would rather use a VPN or Tor
16:00:18 <Rucknium[m]> They have at least a few good privacy researchers working with them. It may work long term. It may not.
16:00:21 <monerobull[m]> Having stuff be app specific is also not great 
16:01:11 <monerobull[m]> monerobull[m]: My vpn is for the entire machine and there shouldn't be a way to leak anything on accident 
16:01:18 <geonic> yeah, I’m glad they exist. if their VC money helps raise awareness of privacy it’s a win
16:01:53 <monerobull[m]> In all their stuff they never mention monero but instead Zec and dash lol
16:02:16 <geonic> are they coming to MoneroKon?
16:02:41 <monerobull[m]> Not that i know of 
16:03:16 <Rucknium[m]> They are listed as a contributor for MoneroKon
16:03:35 <monerobull[m]> <geonic> "I wish you guys had the NYM..." <- We're only taking about it bcs of topia😅
16:04:00 <monerobull[m]> Rucknium[m]: Then they might have some presence 
16:04:18 <monerobull[m]> Don't think they have talks though 
16:04:24 <Rucknium[m]> Yes. A workshopp: https://cfp.monerokon.com/2023/talk/KKLMEY/
16:04:54 <monerobull[m]> Ah cool 
16:10:13 <nioc> good work guys, got distracted
16:11:14 <nioc> they have a Tari talk  :D
16:20:36 <geonic> wut
16:21:36 <geonic> Nym have a Tari talk? lol
16:24:14 <nioc> *there is also a Tari talk  
16:24:16 <nioc> lol
16:26:09 <geonic> oh haha
16:26:24 <geonic> still funny..
16:33:59 <Rucknium[m]> "The Libera.Chat bridge is going down for maintenance tomorrow May 10 between 07:00 and 09:00 UTC. The messages won't be relayed between Matrix and IRC during this window." https://mastodon.matrix.org/@matrix/110339450412866178
17:19:37 <MSvB[m]> Yes nioc:  the Nym people will be at Konferenco in June.
17:20:34 <MSvB[m]> But their hackathon workshop idea was cancelled so any knowledge will probably be spoken rather than hands on.
17:21:32 <MSvB[m]> I thought their hackathon was cancelled but now I'm not sure as they are listed on the CFP.
17:24:17 <ajs_[m]> nym will be doing a presentation and workshop
17:24:55 <ajs_[m]> https://cfp.monerokon.com/2023/talk/LA3SUN/
17:25:09 <ajs_[m]> https://cfp.monerokon.com/2023/talk/KKLMEY/
22:13:20 <bridgerton[m]> <morato> does someone invest in other things than crypto/monero and still trust in the legacy system? i want to liquidate my positions but still attached to some
23:43:36 <chaserene> <bridgerton[m]> "<morato> does someone invest..." <- wrong chat. try #monero:monero.social