02:44:37 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> https://monero.town/post/78734
02:44:37 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> [monerobull](<https://matrix.to/#/@monerobull:matrix.org>) is this meant to be an all in one?
02:44:43 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> * in one app?
03:26:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anyone care to bring the dev to Monero Community Dev 
03:31:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> - https://github.com/creating2morrow/neveko/blob/fc3524ed764da0904c9b146c2ed77e92c1af383a/neveko-core/src/monero.rs
03:31:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Add "disable_noise"
03:31:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> - https://github.com/creating2morrow/neveko/blob/fc3524ed764da0904c9b146c2ed77e92c1af383a/neveko-core/src/monero.rs
03:31:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Anon in port on b32.i2p should be 0 
10:32:43 <plowsof11> meeting in 4.5hrs 15:00UTC https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/854
10:33:44 <john_r365[m]> Re: Glitter CCS proposal
10:33:44 <john_r365[m]> It sounds like they want the Monero community to fund development so they can use Monero to "add privacy" to their cross-chain transactions.
10:33:44 <john_r365[m]> I probably haven't fully understood what they're doing. 
10:33:44 <john_r365[m]> But so far I'm wondering what the benefit is to the XMR community?
10:36:36 <plowsof11> "This will integration and development will drive more utility for Monero technology across EVM & non-EVM networks."
10:37:16 <plowsof11> the typos persist after the first paragraph 
10:37:38 <plowsof11> but yes, this is their explanation of the benefit for Monero
10:37:48 <blankpage[m]> Vague and lame
10:38:50 <john_r365[m]> Presumably if users are going from a to b, they won't care if Monero is used in the middle for some hand wavey extra amount of privacy. 
10:38:50 <john_r365[m]> The UX won't emphasis that part if its any good 
10:39:07 <john_r365[m]> emphasize*
10:39:10 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Monero condom?
10:40:18 <john_r365[m]> Regarding recanman's jobs website proposal. 
10:40:18 <john_r365[m]> Are there no other Monero jobs websites now? I seem to remember at least one in the past.
10:43:48 <john_r365[m]> Jobs websites in the fiat world are very profitable.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/65d5bd2573da1adc31a19d37138e3d75bd5d2517>)
10:44:16 <plowsof11> spirobel discontinued his successonly dot work site, but said he would bring it back online for hosting / maintenance fees (1-2xmr) 
10:46:02 <plowsof11> recanman: had a long discussion about the idea yesterday - it seems it could shift / change its direction - possibly onto bitejo (not exactly sure where they will go with it)
10:46:53 <Siren[m]> <john_r365[m]> "Regarding recanman's jobs..." <- > <@john_r365:monero.social> Regarding recanman's jobs website proposal. 
10:46:54 <Siren[m]> > 
10:46:54 <Siren[m]> > Are there no other Monero jobs websites now? I seem to remember at least one in the past.
10:46:54 <Siren[m]> People sometimes add jobs and services on moneromarket.io
10:47:02 <Siren[m]> s/on/to/
10:48:09 <MilkFantasy[m]> so, gnome and kde crash and are buggy for me, any other recommendations? 
10:48:09 <MilkFantasy[m]> i tried xfce, but it looks like crap 
10:48:16 <MilkFantasy[m]> and i clunky 
10:48:18 <MilkFantasy[m]>  * and is clunky 
10:48:40 <MilkFantasy[m]> deeping de also is super buggy 
10:48:52 <MilkFantasy[m]> im running out of desktops 
10:49:07 <plowsof11> MilkFantasy: ask in #monero we where jut discussing a ccs proposal(s)
10:49:18 <MilkFantasy[m]> oh woops, wrong room lol
10:49:29 <ceetee[m]> or even better in Monero Offtopic 
10:49:43 <MilkFantasy[m]> ye, sry, didnt check the room lol
10:51:37 <john_r365[m]> 1-2 XMR to bring spirobel's project back online vs 90 XMR for a fresh one
10:51:37 <john_r365[m]> Was his site functional and usable? I didn't see it previously
10:51:40 <plowsof11> the discussion about recanmans proposal happened here https://libera.monerologs.net/monero/20230629#c260399
10:52:40 <plowsof11> toward the end they talked about other directions. yes it 'appeared' to be functional (e.g. a task for putting up monero stickers around kabul was advertised and claimed)
10:53:39 <plowsof11> spirobels 'goodbye' to successonly https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/13z98ke/comment/jmq7mz4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
10:54:54 <ceetee[m]> The glitter proposal is a joke. We already have atomic swaps to the most important other chains (btc and eth), and both have the potential to be extended to other similar chains.
10:54:54 <ceetee[m]> Glitter has a market cap of around #8000 with funds of 7M USD, and they come to us, a much more popular crypto with a fraction of their funds. If anything, they should donate to US for further development of the best crypto for payments.
10:56:49 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> So fund?
10:58:03 <plowsof11> there will be another meeting next week on the 8th also (i know nioc and Cat are unable to attend today) 
10:58:05 <ceetee[m]> I'd rather pay for an eye in a cage ffs
10:58:20 <nioc> lol
10:58:40 <nioc> yea, an obvious no go
11:05:52 <john_r365[m]> Couldn't see spirobel's jobs site on his github. So either I need to search better, or it's a private repo
11:17:48 <john_r365[m]> Here's the repo for the previous Monerojobs.com site
11:17:48 <john_r365[m]> Last commit was 2 years ago
11:17:48 <john_r365[m]> https://github.com/alliedstrategic/monero-jobs
11:19:33 <john_r365[m]> It seems this has been attempted a few times... 
11:19:33 <john_r365[m]> Perhaps the issue is not building the site itself 
11:19:33 <john_r365[m]> But the running and management of it. 
11:21:56 <nioc> seems so
11:23:29 <blankpage[m]> 90 xmr is not worthwhile for this proposal
11:36:44 <Lovera[m]> <john_r365[m]> "1-2 XMR to bring spirobel's..." <- > <@john_r365:monero.social> 1-2 XMR to bring spirobel's project back online vs 90 XMR for a fresh one
11:36:45 <Lovera[m]> > 
11:36:45 <Lovera[m]> > Was his site functional and usable? I didn't see it previously
11:36:45 <Lovera[m]> 90 XMR? 👀👀👀
11:38:16 <Lovera[m]> Telegram group Monerojobs works better 😅
11:38:16 <Lovera[m]> https://t.me/MoneroJobs
11:38:39 <ceetee[m]> is it bridged to matrix?
11:38:58 <nioc> or irc :)
11:39:42 <Lovera[m]> I don’t know… I think not
11:40:17 <nioc> there is usually noise issues when bridging to telespam/scam
11:40:21 <Lovera[m]> Meeting today? I’ve been a little offline 😅
11:40:53 <nioc> yes
11:40:56 <ceetee[m]> <plowsof11> "meeting in 4.5hrs 15:00UTC https..." <- yes Lovera 
11:41:24 <Lovera[m]> Thanks 🙏🏻
11:43:39 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> I’ll bring the grasshoppers 
13:59:33 <recanman[m]> <Lovera[m]> "Telegram group Monerojobs..." <- > <@btclovera:matrix.org> Telegram group Monerojobs works better 😅
13:59:33 <recanman[m]> > 
13:59:33 <recanman[m]> > https://t.me/MoneroJobs
13:59:33 <recanman[m]> I discussed the problem with this in my proposal. There are also discussions to rewrite and extend onto Bitejo, which I can do for much less.
14:00:03 <recanman[m]>  * I discussed the problem with this in my proposal. There is also the idea to rewrite and extend onto Bitejo, which I can do for much less.
14:01:47 <recanman[m]> The old monerojobs repo is vastly unfinished and requires client-side javascript\
14:01:56 <recanman[m]>  * The old monerojobs repo is vastly unfinished and requires client-side javascript
14:17:22 <chowbungaman[m]1> Jumping on in ~45min from now. Listen in or join us on stage! Post @MoneroKon chit chat and get the update from @moneromars on how Porcfest went. Live from our current MoneroTopia 😉
14:17:22 <chowbungaman[m]1> https://twitter.com/monerotopia/status/1674864071496302592?s=46&t=WeY1AyuT6Ir1FNBKKq_Beg
15:00:00 <msvb-mob> Can you modify the agenda plowsof, as I requested in the meeting issue of Github?
15:00:06 <plowsof11> Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/854 
15:00:21 <plowsof11> sure thing 
15:00:24 <plowsof11> 1. Greetings / Hello!
15:00:26 <msvb-lab> Hello.
15:00:47 <erectus> are there online exchanges that allow me to buy monero without getting blacklisted by governments?
15:00:50 <recanman[m]> Hello
15:01:02 <Lovera[m]> Hi everyone
15:01:19 <spirobel[m]> hi
15:01:43 <naphtha[m]> erectus: localmonero.co
15:01:49 <Rucknium[m]> Hi
15:01:58 <plowsof11> we'll be having another meeting on the 8th , this is a quickly arranged filler 
15:02:02 <erectus> naphtha[m]: is that bought by cash payment?
15:02:30 <recanman[m]> erectus: Yes, it includes cash by mail.
15:02:42 <Lovera[m]> 👍🏼👍🏼
15:02:42 <plowsof11> how is everyone? Monerokon happened (and yewtu.be is down) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKxLNPJeEjPXOke55i5AIXA new videos as recent as 5 hours ago have been uploaded
15:02:46 <erectus> recanman[m]: can may be anonymous?
15:02:53 <erectus> s/may/mail/
15:03:47 <recanman[m]> erectus: Depends on your threat model, usually it is not as anonymous. Read online for opsec on cash and mail
15:03:55 <recanman[m]> s/as//
15:04:33 <erectus> recanman[m]: problem.  we really have to invest an anonymous physical goods transportation mechanism.
15:04:40 <spirobel[m]> <john_r365[m]> "1-2 XMR to bring spirobel's..." <- > <@john_r365:monero.social> 1-2 XMR to bring spirobel's project back online vs 90 XMR for a fresh one
15:04:40 <spirobel[m]> > 
15:04:40 <spirobel[m]> > Was his site functional and usable? I didn't see it previously
15:04:40 <spirobel[m]> the site I built was mostly a landing page and a discourse instance with a theme. It worked perfectly fine, because 99% of the functionality is off the shelf forum software. I can comment on this in more detail if there is an interest.
15:04:41 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: Enjoying the videos... Although I don’t like those titles... they could add the name of the presentation or something similar
15:04:50 <ceetee[m]> plowsof11: Also mirrored on odysee
15:04:54 <plowsof11> 10kb transaction size initially brought down to 5kb after kayaba corrected some maths for full-chain-membership-proofs transactions was kind of a big deal 
15:05:44 <recanman[m]> Lovera[m]: I agree, it should increase traffic
15:05:51 <recanman[m]> * increase traffic when people search
15:06:44 <plowsof11> they are the .. raw / unedited videos also, thanks for the titles feedback (true, important) ajs is on vacation atm. events next meeting is on the 8th iirc - there are a few other things to clarify reg. the videos / timeframes also
15:07:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> They are creative commons for anyone who wants to use them
15:08:02 <Lovera[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Oh, thanks for the clarification 👍🏼
15:08:15 <msvb-lab> Is this part of our meeting about Konferenco already? Because I need to announce the new date and place.
15:08:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!gclBVGbCMQJYuMOAYr:monero.social/$mXvGs0nz0Av6pulrlDscebDjE008P5zwX9pD5Ly7-Jc?via=monero.social&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat
15:09:20 <plowsof11> [p2pool v3.5 released!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/14n7tgu/p2pool_35_out_now_update/)
15:09:20 <plowsof11> 5. [CCS updates](https://ccs.getmonero.org/)  -  has a new feature : if your local node is stuck, it will cycle through a list of remote alternatives that you provided 
15:09:41 <plowsof11> clipboard hijacked by ccs updates^
15:09:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Haha.
15:10:25 <Lovera[m]> 🤣
15:11:22 <plowsof11> we're having another meeting on the 8th as this was quickly arranged / filler (to further discuss / wait for new ccs ideas)
15:12:08 <plowsof11> "I might put up a "wish" on my wishlist-as-a-service page to create a formal model and classification rule for an attack on PocketChange." Rucknium @ rucknium.me 
15:12:45 <Rucknium[m]> Breaking news ;)
15:13:29 <Rucknium[m]> (un)fortunately it won't be cheap.
15:13:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Id ask at least 625k
15:14:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> And id tell those cheap food danglers to stopteasing or we'll go fmp tomorrow 
15:14:21 <plowsof11> timeframe before/after seraphis gets security proofs + those proofs audited (also on the roadmap) 
15:14:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> They better hurry and fund the research so we can fund fmp
15:15:12 <nioc> schedule change o/
15:15:21 <plowsof11> hello!
15:15:25 <nioc> meow
15:15:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> what else has happened over the last coupke weeks?
15:16:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Kayaproofs
15:16:27 <plowsof11> we're banning monero ' we're not, we are binance thing?
15:16:38 <Rucknium[m]> Triptych has a security proof published in a peer-reviewed outlet, yet it is not considered a candidate for Monero mainnet implementation.
15:16:42 <plowsof11> transactions poomped https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/monero-transactions.html#3m
15:17:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero and xhv get delisted. Xhv loses 50% in value
15:17:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> xmr.. doesnt care
15:17:25 <Rucknium[m]> Seraphis, Bulletproofs++, and Curve Trees do not have security proofs published in a peer-reviewed outlet, yet they are considered candidates for Monero mainnet implementation
15:17:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Skip testnet, right ruck :D
15:18:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> the dark history of of 18.2.2 haha
15:18:35 <plowsof11> TODO (bolded, underlined... capitalised and pgp signed for all of the above)
15:19:32 <plowsof11> shall we move onto the ccs ideas?
15:19:48 <Lovera[m]> Go
15:19:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> 1 quick question
15:20:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium:  any idea if those tx for that day were real?
15:20:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or spam?
15:20:15 <Lovera[m]> Nice question
15:20:23 <Rucknium[m]> Which day?
15:20:33 <plowsof11> the speculation is "withdraws from CEX's after news of bans
15:20:45 <Lovera[m]> Pumps  txs day
15:20:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> 42k tx on the 25th
15:20:58 <Lovera[m]> 40k+
15:21:09 <Rucknium[m]> High CEX volume days usually cause high on-chain txs
15:21:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> 16k on 24th
15:21:59 <Rucknium[m]> That conclusion is from some basic analysis of other coins like DOGE
15:21:59 <Lovera[m]> And I thought it was because of Monerokon 😅
15:22:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Avg about 25k and declining
15:22:37 <recanman[m]> Lovera[m]: I also thought it was from MoneroKon. I did not check XMR/USD for a week, and all of a sudden it was up 18%
15:22:45 <Rucknium[m]> IMHO, the on-chain volume was probably real
15:22:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> We also still have the were cycling of transaction days
15:23:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/were/weird/
15:23:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> But yes, lets move to ccs ideas
15:23:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  thanks
15:23:59 <plowsof11> it was because of Monerokon 
15:24:04 <plowsof11> ok lets move on 😄
15:24:07 <plowsof11> 5. [CCS updates](https://ccs.getmonero.org/)    
15:24:20 <plowsof11>   a. [vtnerd 2023 q3 proposal](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/391)
15:24:37 <Rucknium[m]> +1 merge
15:24:42 <plowsof11> been up for a while / had feedback from the right persons, time for a vote 
15:24:47 <plowsof11> +merge 
15:24:48 <Lovera[m]> Merge
15:25:06 <recanman[m]> +1
15:25:08 <recanman[m]>  * +merge
15:25:11 <jeffro256[m]> merge
15:25:32 <tobtoht[m]> merge
15:25:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Merge pls
15:26:03 <plowsof11> a clear merge, moving on 
15:26:12 <plowsof11> thanks for voting all
15:26:14 <msvb-lab> +1.
15:26:20 <plowsof11>   b. [recanman monero jobs website proposal](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/395)
15:26:45 <plowsof11> thanks^ 
15:27:00 <recanman[m]> There have been discussions in order to rewrite [Bitejo](https://bitejo.com), an already-existing service
15:27:15 <plowsof11> now moving on to b. recanman posted this only recently. had alot of discussion already. is this the final version of your proposal you want people to review?
15:27:32 <recanman[m]> Yes, I don't think I have any changes to make.
15:28:07 <ceetee[m]> I would like to hear from people who want to use such a site
15:28:19 <plowsof11> if we look at it as "recreating something that already existed(exists) then is it not a tough sell?
15:28:20 <naphtha[m]> recanman[m]: whats wrong with bitejo?
15:28:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> but not ready to be voted on. Are you planning to move forward with the bitejo rewrite?
15:28:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> naphtha[m]: Messy code, anark needs help, bitejo needs funding 
15:28:48 <plowsof11> if you dont like this , then im making a bitejo proposal?
15:28:48 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: It is written in procedural PHP, and is maintained as a hobby. I would also like to add on to it the jobs portion.
15:28:57 <recanman[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: I'm fine with either pathway
15:29:17 <plowsof11> ok well it takes alot of wrinkles / effort for everyone to review these proposals
15:29:30 <recanman[m]> I would prefer the Bitejo rewrite, as it gives me a basis + expands the site to more interests.
15:29:32 <naphtha[m]> i've been thinking of creating a freelance website, such as fiverr, with an escrow. not that i will have the time to put it into practice any time soon but i have used freelance websites in the past and the payouts were the most annoying part
15:29:48 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: Yes, my proposal does include escrow.
15:30:05 <recanman[m]> With the Bitejo rewrite, a user can have one account in order to use the different services
15:30:26 <naphtha[m]> * the past (as a seller) and the
15:30:30 <chesterfield[m]> Why is bitejo needed when there’s that other xmr shopping site
15:30:34 <recanman[m]> There is the money-raising (GoFundMe), the marketplace (craigslist), and then the potentially-upcoming jobs (Indeed or job sites)
15:30:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> chesterfield[m]: Bitejo isnt just "craigslist"its a suite
15:30:52 <plowsof11> moneromarket dot io (probably has nsfw things)
15:30:59 <recanman[m]> I would also like to make sure that client-side JavaScript is not involved
15:31:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> kuno.bitejo.com for gofundme for example
15:31:40 <plowsof11> recanman: but atm we are reviewing the proposal youve got up now or are you going to re-write / resubmit? 
15:31:53 <recanman[m]> Due to my threat model, I have JavaScript disabled. Trocador.app was a very big help to me, and I believe that this can also be a help to others who do not want to provide their phone number to telegram in order to get hired/hire
15:32:04 <recanman[m]> plowsof11: Yep, the proposal is final.
15:32:15 <recanman[m]> * get hired/hire people.
15:32:18 <chesterfield[m]> plowsof11: I didn’t see anything listed in the nsfw section last time I checked
15:32:28 <Lovera[m]> If rewritten = the same amount xmr?
15:32:33 <recanman[m]> chesterfield[m]: I believe there are people selling pictures of themselves.
15:32:36 <plowsof11> true ^ swiim clicked it the other day and nothing came up
15:32:38 <chesterfield[m]> Don’t dnm’s already function as no js marketplaces
15:32:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Recan, the proposal has to indicate thr work planned
15:33:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> So if you are going bitejo route, will need to edit the proposal to show that
15:33:05 <recanman[m]> Lovera[m]: I can do it for much less, probably 50/60. I don't want to deviate from the normal software developer salary too much.
15:33:14 <recanman[m]> Oh, ok.
15:33:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> chesterfield[m]: These arent dnm
15:33:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> These are for mom and pops
15:33:32 <recanman[m]> Should I rewrite it now, or do I have time until the next meeting?
15:33:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> recanman[m]: Youbhave time
15:33:49 <chesterfield[m]> Wasn’t there a kernel proposal for a no js market thing or was that different
15:33:50 <recanman[m]> Great, thanks.
15:33:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next meeting is in 1 week
15:33:57 <naphtha[m]> recanman[m]: i would suggest to use something like fresh.deno.dev (server-side react) instead of nunjucks. speaking from experience, it's a lot cleaner
15:34:18 <plowsof11> ideas usually pop up in 2 meeings~1 month, by then people have a good enough idea if they like it or not
15:34:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> chesterfield[m]: Metronero? 
15:34:30 <chesterfield[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Yes
15:34:45 <chesterfield[m]> Maybe that wasn’t a shopping site though
15:35:06 <recanman[m]> The Monero jobs Telegram is immensely useful and got me involved when I knew nothing about Monero, and just got into it. Another problem is the lack of escrow, which can be mitigated with a dedicated solution.
15:35:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think youre thinking on "moneroshopping"
15:35:13 <recanman[m]>  * The Monero jobs Telegram is immensely useful and got me involved when I knew nothing about Monero, and just got into it. Another problem is the lack of escrow, which can be mitigated with a dedicated solution.
15:35:13 <recanman[m]> Just another point.
15:35:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> s/on/of/
15:35:58 <plowsof11> successonly dot work back online for 1-2 xmr was offered but spirobel would have to confirm
15:36:11 <recanman[m]> naphtha[m]: Thank you very much, I will look into that. Since it looks like it will be the Bitejo rewrite, I will probably use Nunjucks and just copy over most of the HTML/CSS for simplicity. This is why I can do it for much less, as the frontend is not involved.
15:36:13 <spirobel[m]> recanman[m]: > <@recanman:agoradesk.com> The Monero jobs Telegram is immensely useful and got me involved when I knew nothing about Monero, and just got into it. Another problem is the lack of escrow, which can be mitigated with a dedicated solution.
15:36:13 <spirobel[m]> > Just another point.
15:36:13 <spirobel[m]> is there a lot of demand for Monero freelancers in this group?
15:36:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Spirpbel is busy talking shit in another room
15:36:22 <plowsof11> (i dont know if that site is open source, also waiting for clarification)
15:36:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Oh, nvm, hes here
15:37:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Welcome back
15:37:26 <recanman[m]> s/50/60/65/
15:37:49 <recanman[m]> plowsof11: According to him, it's a rebranded Discourse software thing
15:38:27 <plowsof11> if it works it works 
15:39:03 <plowsof11> i see more success in working on an existing project instead of rebuilding something from scratch 
15:39:09 <recanman[m]> I believe that including the Bitejo suite and expanding on it will be much more effective than a forum.
15:39:14 <recanman[m]> I agree!
15:40:29 <Rucknium[m]> IMHO, these types of things that need to build a social/economic network usually find success or failure based on non-technical factors
15:40:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> I like it. Let us know when youve updated (before meeting) so we can take a look
15:41:00 <spirobel[m]> the thing is this: this kind of "marketplace site" shares 99% with a forum. You need moderation, search, categories, posts, comments, admin, register, login. There is no point to write all of this from scratch. It will be next to impossible to do a good job at this as a single programmer building it from scratch. Even if it is done well, it will not be comparable to the work of a large company that wrote and maintains open source
15:41:00 <spirobel[m]> forum software.
15:41:06 <plowsof11> we could fund 15 developers to create 15 success only websites , i agree with Rucknium 
15:41:10 <spirobel[m]> * shares 99% of functionality with a
15:41:27 <plowsof11> i dont think "javascript" being enabled on successonly was the deciding factor as to why it was discontinued
15:41:43 <chesterfield[m]> I don’t think it’s a forum at all
15:42:03 <recanman[m]> spirobel[m]: I am not sure if it is too much like a forum.
15:42:43 <recanman[m]> There is the aspect of posting a "thread" (job posting), and then people "replying" (sending your resume), but I don't have any experience with Discourse software
15:43:02 <chesterfield[m]> Bounties is probably the best example we have of using software for an unintended use
15:43:04 <recanman[m]> I think it ends at that.
15:43:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> Any more ideas on the agenda?
15:43:51 <recanman[m]> bounties.monero.social is nice, but it serves a different purpose: crowd-sourced funding
15:44:01 <plowsof11> yes lets hit pause on this idea for now
15:44:09 <recanman[m]> Good ideal.
15:44:11 <recanman[m]>  * Good idea.
15:44:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> And a bounty is fundamentallt different than a fundraiser 
15:44:17 <chesterfield[m]> Yes I’m just saying that depending on a totally different upstream software causes breakage and pain
15:44:29 <plowsof11>   c. [Glitter Finance Cross-Chain Privacy Infrastructure with Monero](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/396)
15:44:29 <plowsof11>    
15:44:33 <Rucknium[m]> Why not find a way to add XMR to a jobs site that already has a userbase?
15:44:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Burn it with fire
15:44:54 <plowsof11> i dont think we need to have much more input on the glitter proposal other than whats been said today?
15:44:58 <plowsof11> im voting for close 
15:45:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rucknium[m]: This 3. But a lot of these corps wont mess with us/xmr
15:45:16 <recanman[m]> I read it a few hours ago, it just seems about someone talking about money
15:45:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like airbnb
15:45:25 <plowsof11> they are very very rich 
15:45:26 <recanman[m]> * about money. Where is their 7million usd?
15:45:36 <recanman[m]> * about money. Where is their 7million USD?
15:45:40 <recanman[m]> * about money. Where is their 7 million USD?
15:45:52 <Lovera[m]> plowsof11: > <@plowsof:matrix.org>   c. [Glitter Finance Cross-Chain Privacy Infrastructure with Monero](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/396)
15:45:52 <Lovera[m]> >    
15:45:52 <Lovera[m]> Don’t we already have several atomic swaps projects with top coins such as Bitcoin and Ethereum? I don’t understand very well this proposal 
15:45:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> 7.2mill single handedly raised. 
15:45:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> did they.. have a boating accident?
15:46:16 <recanman[m]> Rucknium[m]: Those will most likely need KYC and JavaScript, please let me know if you find a job site dedicated to privacy
15:46:17 <recanman[m]> * to privacy.
15:46:42 <plowsof11> lol with 14 mins left we can leave it open for next week (maybe they will have a rebuttal)
15:46:45 <Rucknium[m]> Online merchants complain that it is hard to integrate XMR into their merchant software. Where are the CCS proposals about that?
15:46:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lovera[m]: Its a tunnel to fake privacy by using monero as a conduit between blockchains that have no privacy
15:47:05 <spirobel[m]> chesterfield[m]: That is true. And i think at some point you need to write something from scratch. But the issue why Monero job markets fail is not because of the tech. It is because there is not enough demand and its super hard to start marketplaces. Also: many marketplaces started with forums. So I disagree with the assessment that its not like a forum.
15:47:05 <naphtha[m]> Rucknium[m]: imagine you're a jobs site with a considerably big userbase and a community based around a cryptocurrency that is consistently portrayed in the media as being the "criminal's bitcoin" asks you to accept their currency
15:47:16 <naphtha[m]> why would they risk their reputation
15:47:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof11: We have 7 days. Can leave it ooen 
15:47:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> But my vote stands. Burn it
15:47:34 <plowsof11> we have another new proposal to look at though from msvb
15:47:36 <Lovera[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Ok, close it 😅
15:47:57 <recanman[m]> Based on my assessment, I agree to close
15:47:57 <msvb-lab> This one allows us to participate in an official Defcon area, it is event based and distributes books and badges.
15:48:00 <recanman[m]> * to close.
15:48:07 <plowsof11> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/397 
15:48:07 <plowsof11> Serving Defcon 31 (2023)
15:48:30 <recanman[m]> It's quite detailed, which is nice.
15:48:59 <msvb-lab> No, 90% details are missing. We just have too much Defcon historical information in our heads and no time to record it.
15:49:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lol
15:49:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Half the cost of our OWN conference 
15:50:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Cut this shit Cryptohip badges20000 USDCost of four hundred electronic badges
15:50:33 <msvb-lab> The reason distribution (hundreds instead of thousands) and related costs are reduced is due to expected abandon.
15:50:51 <ceetee[m]> same badges as those at monerokon?
15:50:54 <naphtha[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: lmao yeah wtf is that
15:50:56 <recanman[m]> I refute my point, I skimmed over it 
15:51:01 <recanman[m]> s//./
15:51:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> What the hellis a cryptohip badge
15:51:06 <msvb-lab> Very similar ceetee yes, derivatives of the Cryptohip.
15:51:16 <plowsof11> the badges are indeed the main chunk 
15:51:17 <msvb-lab> And the Mastering Monero is the old one, version 1 I guess.
15:51:21 <Lovera[m]> What are cryptohit bagges?
15:51:29 <Lovera[m]> Badges
15:51:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> A fuxking scam
15:51:40 <msvb-lab> Electronic badges that hackers stand in line to get and later wear. The smart ones hack them as well.
15:51:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> What ami looking at lmao
15:51:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nexxxzt
15:51:53 <recanman[m]> I think I am reading it incorrectly, but it seems that they are saying that it should be canceled? I don't understand.
15:52:06 <recanman[m]> >Denying the Monero community an official presence at Defcon would save us money, so it's a valid option to consider.
15:52:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im saying what the hell
15:52:26 <Lovera[m]> I don’t have time to read so many messages 🤣
15:52:26 <msvb-lab> We should only deny the Monero community an official presence at Defcon if we think there will be abuse or bad behaviour.
15:52:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> 20k is abuse 
15:52:46 <Lovera[m]> Is this the short or long meeting? plowsof 🤣
15:52:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> I have a better use for it
15:52:49 <recanman[m]> msvb-lab: I don't understand what that means?
15:52:51 <tobtoht[m]> $50 per badge seems.. excessive?
15:52:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> Give ofrn 20k
15:53:03 <plowsof11> it is a short/quick filler meeting Lovera 20~ mins max
15:53:11 <msvb-lab> It means recanman that if we expect bad behaviour then we should reject this CCS.
15:53:18 <ceetee[m]> handing out non monero-specific hardware for 50$ each seems a bit wasteful
15:53:22 <msvb-lab> Because of high standards at Defcon.
15:53:23 <recanman[m]> msvb-lab: That does not clarify it.
15:53:27 <ceetee[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: no
15:54:08 <naphtha[m]> defcon really is shit tbh
15:54:16 <msvb-lab> We are welcome to serve as the CCS describes if nobody brings drug merchandise, for example. And uses no bad language, and does not abuse staff or visitors.
15:54:20 <plowsof11> are the badges compulsory msvb-lab ? does every project purchase these to attend?
15:54:23 <naphtha[m]> only good guest in the past 10 years was sam bent from doingfedtime
15:54:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: s/out/put
15:54:34 <naphtha[m]> the rest were all annoying nerds
15:54:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof11: ^
15:55:04 <recanman[m]> msvb-lab: What incites that specifically from the Monero community?
15:55:15 <recanman[m]> I think we should move on.
15:55:26 <Lovera[m]> Btw seems like SDK proposal, It has stopped with founding
15:55:30 <msvb-lab> recanman: There is a lot of history of abuse, that is the reason for the clause.
15:55:46 <msvb-lab> And that we are trying to increase family contributions and child friendly content, especially at DC31.
15:55:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah. lets move on. Lol
15:56:09 <ofrnxmr[m]> if no more ideas, where do we stand with funding current proposals
15:56:11 <recanman[m]> msvb-lab: You sound like a bot, I really do not understand what you are saying.
15:56:30 <msvb-lab> plowsof11: I'm not sure which groups are distributing badges, most are incapable of producing them.
15:56:42 <plowsof11> ok thanks for clarifying 
15:56:46 <msvb-lab> And some groups not invited to Defcon like Whiskey Pirates produce them but distribute offsite in a hotel room.
15:57:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> msvb-lab: 20k
15:57:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im crying
15:57:23 <Lovera[m]> 20k $ is a lot of money
15:57:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> Who's producing them for you
15:58:02 <msvb-lab> Lovera: It's much less than most years while distributing thousands and much more than the years when we had no badge distribution at all.
15:58:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: ok. ^^ lets move on.
15:58:20 <msvb-lab> There has also never been a widespread distribution of paper books which could be interesting.
15:58:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2 mins left 
15:58:45 <plowsof11> i like the books available for distribution 
15:58:47 <msvb-lab> We didn't have time to reach serhack.
15:59:09 <msvb-lab> If we reject this CCS there will still be a lot of books available, because O'Reilly is next in line.
15:59:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> 20k, 8 months, no time
15:59:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> U crack me up
15:59:20 <plowsof11> any surplus books could be absorbed back into storage for the next monerokon too
15:59:37 <plowsof11> and serhack benefits (i assume)
15:59:52 <msvb-lab> The 8 months is only during our negotiations, other activities began about 11 months ago.
16:00:27 <msvb-lab> We have a 16 month work cycle for Konferenco and 12 month work cycle for Defcon.
16:00:59 <ceetee[m]> <msvb-lab> "And the Mastering Monero is..." <- plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  dont want the old version for monerokon
16:01:01 <plowsof11> eh oh 
16:01:18 <msvb-lab> There is only the old version available at Amazon, which is where we would buy them.
16:01:32 <msvb-lab> Unless hbs or sgp or others at the publisher have advice.
16:01:44 * ofrnxmr[m] uploaded an image: (108KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/QfZGQPdtEJTDcdaztwdjnZdI/yq1uqm7v3jewosw6.jpg >
16:01:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> msvb-lab: Man youre terrible
16:02:25 <plowsof11> SerHack: could maybe shed some light on that (how to get the new printed version) 
16:02:42 <nioc> is there a new version?
16:02:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> Wallet sdk is the only proposal not fully funded. plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  anybreasonnthe site isnt updating?
16:03:00 <spirobel[m]> msvb-lab: you are the organizers behind monero kon, right?
16:03:06 <Lovera[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Stuck SDK for Android 
16:03:08 <msvb-lab> Yes spirobel.
16:03:10 <plowsof11> right.. eta for the new version* nioc 
16:03:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Are jeffro and vost overfunded now?
16:03:24 <msvb-lab> I am one of the Konferenco staff, we are about five or six people.
16:03:32 <spirobel[m]> msvb-lab: thank you for your work! It seems like it was an awsome conference! 
16:03:45 <plowsof11> += 0.060425224358 for the jet fund ofrnxmr 
16:03:49 <msvb-lab> You're welcome. I want to announce the 2024 date now, if it's the correct time.
16:03:55 <nioc> ajs is the organizer, there are many that did a great deal of work
16:04:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> I am ceo of monerokon. Good job team
16:05:29 <ceetee[m]> was a pleasure to meet you
16:05:36 <plowsof11> i think we can end the meeting here and continue discussions ... vtnerd merge , glitter close, other ideas to be discussed on the 8th
16:05:38 <nioc> eta for mastering monero 2.0 is 2021
16:06:10 <plowsof11> thank you all for attending , Cat too
16:06:33 <msvb-lab> Thanks for the good meeting and plowsof for moderating.
16:08:16 <Lovera[m]> Thanks
16:08:16 <spirobel[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: did you attend a monero conference before?
16:09:07 <Lovera[m]> nioc: I would like to see an updated version of Zero to Monero
16:09:57 <nioc> it's needed for sure
16:10:07 <recanman[m]> My first meeting, and it went very well. I will be attending more in the future. Goodbye everyone!
16:11:02 <sgp[m]> MSvB:  I know you're really passionate about the badges, but they are simply too expensive imho
16:12:12 <sgp[m]> If we want presense at Defcon to talk about Monero (reasonable), we should do flyers or something, and find people in Vegas or nearby area. We could pay them for their time and still come out way ahead of transatlantic flights
16:15:15 <sgp[m]> Having a fraction of a vendor section for Monero stuff simply isn't as valuable as this CCS is for
16:16:09 <spirobel[m]> sgp[m]: There are probably some infosec people in the Monero community that will go anyway. Maybe it could be a  job for them.
16:16:46 <sgp[m]> Exactly. Find someone going, give them flyers and some money
16:17:23 <spirobel[m]> where the electronic badges supposed to be self made by the proposer? 
16:17:30 <spirobel[m]> s/where/were/
16:17:53 <sgp[m]> Maybe the vendor booth is worth $1000 or so for the space, but I'd need to learn more about that
16:18:54 <spirobel[m]> guerrilla marketing is probably a better approach than a vendor both though ... just wonder if something like this is against the defcon CoC and they would kick you out for doing it ... 
16:19:21 <spirobel[m]> because otherwise we are seen in the same way as many dodgy AV product vendors ...
16:19:33 <sgp[m]> spirobel[m]: The vendor booth or guerilla stuff?
16:19:37 <ceetee[m]> spirobel[m]: Monerokon badges were originally designed for another conference, with updated branding. Assembled professionally, so I'd guess the work was outsourced
16:19:45 <spirobel[m]>  * because otherwise we could be seen in the same way as many dodgy AV product vendors ...
16:19:53 <sgp[m]> spirobel[m]: Eh, people should be relieved to see Monero there. Space isn't a bad idea imo
16:20:59 <spirobel[m]> the first time I saw Bitcoin was in the form of an ATM at a CCC conference.
16:21:08 <spirobel[m]> Maybe an atm is a good idea. Makes it feel real
16:23:16 <sgp[m]> Couldn't function though. That was a weak point of Defcon 2018
16:56:45 <SerHack> Out of the loop, what do you need?
17:39:28 <plowsof11> SerHack: i thought the new version was mastering Monero complete but not yet 
18:07:23 <plowsof11> is "mastering Monero complete" a way to describe something that is very complete 
19:21:36 <xmrscott[m]> <spirobel[m]> "There are probably some infosec..." <- I will be there this year, less sure about next year if they keep hiking the prices the way they did this year
19:34:27 <xmrscott[m]> Flyers in the actual Villages is a big no no. There are however plenty of tables in the hallways and open spaces to leave flyers w/o reprocussion if it wants. That's usually how people put out things for puzzles to exclusive parties, etc
19:34:43 <xmrscott[m]> s/reprocussion/repercussion/, s/it/you/, s/wants/want/
20:00:40 <ajs_[m]> To be honest, we were politely kicked out of Defcon by being downgraded from a full named village to a cryptocurrency village to being lumped in with t-shirt vendors
20:00:57 <ajs_[m]> There is little to no value engaging there 
20:09:49 <naphtha[m]> <sgp> "Couldn't function though. That..." <- why not?
20:11:25 * naphtha[m] uploaded an image: (970KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kyun.host/jeHUwOrNHaJyCPYNVBruBckc/image.png >
20:22:14 <recanman[m]> I changed my proposal: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/395
20:26:26 <sgp[m]> <naphtha[m]> "why not?" <- License, legal, and boring reasons
20:28:23 <plowsof11> imagine that https://bitejo.com/ had a new back end. now what 
20:30:02 <recanman[m]> Will improve security, privacy, and stability of the code. Also will allow for addition of different services.
20:30:20 <recanman[m]> * different services. It will expand the functionality of the existing services as well.
20:30:33 <Siren[m]> sgp[m]: Is that why you used a credit card to pay for the food trucks at MoneroKon 👀?
20:31:56 <sgp[m]> Siren[m]: Hey I bought a bunch of beers with Monero :p
20:32:31 <sgp[m]> Chicken food vendor was rude to me, I just wanted to leave there as fast as possible
20:32:34 <plowsof11> the food trucks lost wifi connection at one point? lol
20:32:51 <plowsof11> credit cards 1 : monero 0
20:33:12 <Siren[m]> plowsof11: you were there?
20:33:38 <plowsof11> remotely via wifi - the camera cut out 
20:34:32 <Siren[m]> we did look for you
20:34:47 <Stnby[m]> Through your webcam
20:38:36 <plowsof11> i had some dates in late june / and early august i can't/couldn't miss - apologies for anyone wanting to shake hands / punch me in the face - next year it seems like it will be in early june 🙏
20:42:18 <plowsof11> unless there are other meetups in europania 👀 
20:43:43 <Stnby[m]> Come to Lithuania, we can throw a meetup in a nearby bar, which is know for chair fighst
20:43:49 <Stnby[m]> s/fighst/fights/
21:18:46 <naphtha[m]> <Stnby[m]> "Come to Lithuania, we can..." <- im coming 100%
21:19:07 <naphtha[m]> organize a bitcoin meetup in the same place
21:19:39 <naphtha[m]> have an ambulance ready
21:19:44 <naphtha[m]> or 15
21:32:46 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> Tldr meeting?
21:47:34 <louissignet[m]> Instead of giving away badges and books maybe the booth should be a bookstore paid for with monero. Only highly controversial and mostly censored books. Call it the "Truly Anonymous Bookstore". 
21:47:35 <louissignet[m]> From the CIA Book of Dirty Tricks ( I remember getting this pdf on a defcon conference ) to Lockpicking books
21:48:35 <louissignet[m]> That would educate people about the importance and usecase of monero than anything else.
21:52:39 <louissignet[m]> You may include there the books with the PGP source code which the cypherpunk originally used to bypass encryption restrictions with the 1st amendment. Also include the newest Snowden book where he is unable to profit from due to government interference in the fiat system. Literally confiscating the sales.
21:52:49 <louissignet[m]> s/cypherpunk/cypherpunks/
21:54:24 <louissignet[m]> * of monero more than anything
22:22:35 <plowsof11> <DanrdarkIsnotthe> "Tldr meeting?" <- merge vtnerd / Glitter in the sh*tter / 50$ is expensive for a badge / lets discuss changes to the other ideas and see you on the 8th of May 
22:22:57 <plowsof11> s/May/July 
22:23:27 <DanrdarkIsnotthe> i did see something about sdk and funding but went past it
22:24:34 <recanman[m]> DanrdarkIsnotthe: That was the focus of the meeting actually, we didn't get to the other parts.
22:24:41 <recanman[m]> > <@123bob123:matrix.org> i did see something about sdk and funding but went past it
22:24:41 <recanman[m]>  * That was the main discussion portion of the meeting actually, we didn't get to the other parts.
22:36:08 <hbs[m]> <msvb-lab> "Unless hbs or sgp or others at..." <- Last time I asked SerHack: did not have an ETA for the next edition of MM.