13:13:00 <Killercat103[m]> Hello people! Wondered if there's any services or good projects to donate to that accept XMR?
13:14:49 <Killercat103[m]> I do have donated a cup of coffee to the Tor and Monero Projects and theres Mullvad vpn which accepts XMR. I just find it fun to use XMR to give away to people I know or projects i support
13:15:26 <povl[m]> The xmr community fund maybe?
13:16:10 <povl[m]> Oh yeah, you just said that.
13:16:26 <edge7[m]> Also, buy a t shirt for yourself here
13:16:26 <edge7[m]> https://moneromerch.com/
13:16:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerodevs.org
13:16:47 <Killercat103[m]> povl[m]: to be fair im pretty sure i typed as you answered xd
13:18:01 <Killercat103[m]> edge7[m]: > <@edge7:matrix.org> Also, buy a t shirt for yourself here
13:18:01 <Killercat103[m]> > 
13:18:01 <Killercat103[m]> > https://moneromerch.com/
13:18:01 <Killercat103[m]> Heh, a good way to flaunt my nerdiness xd
13:20:19 <MSvB[m]> edge7: There are good things to pay for while benefitting productive members on monerosupplies.com if the shirt does not fit.
13:21:18 <MSvB[m]> I meant to answer Killercat103: , sorry.
13:21:26 <edge7[m]> I bought a couple of flip flops for summer
13:24:50 <Killercat103[m]> MSvB[m]: Are both 3-rd party stores?
13:24:55 <monerobull[m]> MSvB[m]: I don't have wearable merch like moneromerch so i get why people would go there :)
13:29:55 <edge7[m]> I thought monero merch was sort of affiliate with the community 
13:31:09 <Killercat103[m]> Idk if monero werable merch is a bit much on my end but its interesting nonetheless.
13:31:54 <Killercat103[m]> I'll save both pages for later
13:33:08 <edge7[m]> The 3d coin are pretty cool. Anyone knows the format of the file? 
13:34:58 <Killercat103[m]> Is that on moneromerch?
13:35:08 <povl[m]> Killercat103: maybe I2P if you like tor? Or zlib if you support that kind of thing.
13:35:55 <edge7[m]> Gotcha stl
13:35:56 <Killercat103[m]> Whats zlib?
13:35:56 <edge7[m]> Killercat103[m]: Nonero supplies 
13:36:18 <Killercat103[m]> I looked up I2P but sadly they dont seem to accept donations :/
13:37:34 <plowsof11> edge7 the monero dot fail list is comprised of nodes in the peer list of a monero node (located in singapore) and user submitted ones. There is no vetting of servers. The singapore node did not have the dns block list enabled for at least 6 months so known surveillance nodes where there.
13:38:33 <plowsof11> How does one become an affiliate of the Monero community 
13:40:06 <povl[m]> Killercat103[m]: Ah alright. Zlib is free books on tor. If you don't like piracy but want to support free knowledge for all, maybe project gutenberg.
13:41:00 <plowsof11> Use code COMMUNITY or my affiliate link for 5% off tech support sessions in #monero-support:monero.social 
13:41:16 <Killercat103[m]> Aha, my opinion is honestly a bit mixed when it comes to piracy
13:43:10 <Killercat103[m]> But free knowledge and cencorship circumvention, privacy and ethics/freedom both in software and irl yeah
13:43:28 <Killercat103[m]>  * But free knowledge, censorship circumvention, privacy and ethics/freedom both in software and irl yeah
14:02:22 <monerobull[m]> <Killercat103[m]> "I looked up I2P but sadly they..." <- apparently because they got a lot of btc donations and then the price went up lol
14:11:06 <Killercat103[m]> The transaction fees?
14:11:52 <Killercat103[m]> I don't see why they could not accept Monero then. It has very low fees in comparison xd
14:37:26 <nioc> Cat accepts donations for her services 
15:02:29 <Killercat103[m]> Cat?
16:18:52 <dadajo[m]> <edge7[m]> "I thought monero merch was..." <- they donate 30% of profits to ccs. I have ordered some stuff there as well and waiting on delivery. The owner is very nice and is a supporter of monero
17:52:52 <edge7[m]> Am running a monero node like this
17:52:52 <edge7[m]> docker run -d --restart unless-stopped --name="monerod"  -p 18080:18080 -p 18089:18089 -v /home/edge7/Desktop/monerod:/home/monero/.bitmonero  sethsimmons/simple-monerod:latest --rpc-restricted-bind-ip=0.0.0.0 --rpc-restricted-bind-port=18089 --no-igd --zmq-pub tcp://0.0.0.0:18083 --enable-dns-blocklist --in-peers=50 --out-peers=50 --public-node
17:52:52 <edge7[m]> Can anyone check the last few params to be sure am not missing anything. That should be enough to create a public node which is advertised 
17:54:34 <edge7[m]> http://151.30.244.162:18089/get_info
18:04:48 <plowsof11> ofrnxmr: --public-node also?
18:07:43 <edge7[m]> I think the public node is for advertising. Otherwise it is public but the ip is unknown
18:11:09 <plowsof11> Ip unknown sounds impossible
18:27:39 <brams0[m]> How do you guys buy your monero?
18:27:49 <brams0[m]> I need to buy some asap
18:28:52 <edge7[m]> brams0[m]: Local monero. 
18:29:56 <edge7[m]> <plowsof11> "Ip unknown sounds impossible" <- From the official doc
18:29:56 <edge7[m]> The daemon allows to make a node public by simply adding the flag --public-node. Doing so, it will be advertised on the P2P network and people will be able to connect to it
18:30:16 <edge7[m]> So it looks like without that it does not get advertised. Correct? 
19:37:28 <ofrnxmr[m]> edge7:  please, for the love of god/plowsof (your choice), stop double posting!!
19:38:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Did this yesterday too. 
19:38:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> Jsyk, its the same people in almost every room. Different rooms for different purposes 
19:38:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> <brams0[m]> "How do you guys buy your monero?" <- Localmonero
19:38:42 <edge7[m]> Agree. I deleted it from there and put it here as yesterday I was getting more answers here
19:40:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ideally you should be in Monero  or Monero Support . This is a workgroup room, for community projects, funding, etc. 
19:40:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> its ok for now, but for next time 👍
19:41:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> <plowsof11> "ofrnxmr: --public-node also?" <- For bootstrap and simple mode (gui)
19:44:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont use either of those features, as i dont trust simplemode nodes (and therefore i dont trust bootstrap ones either). 
19:44:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> People/wallets should really _only_ be using nodes that they trust or know the operator of
19:46:13 <ofrnxmr[m]> There are a number of privacy issues and/or exploits regarding using "random" nodes
19:47:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Youre better to use any of the many nodes hosted by known community members, than to assume that a majority of --public-node (advertised / auto / bootstrap / simplemode) were configured by well intentioned people
19:48:33 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ie, if you were malicious, youd spin up 1000 node ips with --public-node on them
19:49:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Since its not a default flag, youre the majority of --public-node nodes. And its the auto connection method for the official software
19:53:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> i think there should be absolutely no "auto selecting of random/unvetted nodes". If youre using bootstrap, you should specify a remote node. 
19:53:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> Simple mode should use "trusted by community nodes" only (like feather). 
19:56:05 <edge7[m]> My plan is to connect my own wallet with my own remote node. But I used the - - public flag for advertising.
19:56:05 <edge7[m]> I am confused tbh.
20:00:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> --public-node advertises to the network in order to allow bootstrapping
20:00:21 <cryptofix[m]> @edge7 just make sure you synchronize your wallet and then you debug it with bp20
20:01:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Simple mode in monero gui uses the list of nodes so that people can use gui without configuring a node
20:01:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Which is silly and dangerous)
20:01:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you want to connect your own node, and share your node with others, you dont need --public-node
20:02:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> You only need to share the ip and port with whomever you are sharing with (or use them yourself)
20:03:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> <edge7[m]> "http://151.30.244.162:18089/..." <- If i want to use your node, i only need this ip and port 
20:03:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> And you dont need to set the --public-node flag for that
20:04:14 <edge7[m]> But I want to share that also to people that I cannot talk with!!! 
20:04:45 <ofrnxmr[m]> Those people are insane and need to stop using random spy nodes they found in dark alleys and then wondering why things went left
20:05:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> edge7[m]: Thesee people are using a feature that allows the user to be _too_ sloppy. 
20:05:57 <ofrnxmr[m]> you should not be using remote nodes of whom you dont know and/or trust the operator 
20:06:25 <brams0[m]> Just did a monero transaction, the trader told me it should take about an hour for the coins to arrive
20:06:30 <brams0[m]> Accurate?
20:06:34 <edge7[m]> Ok. I see your point. Now. I am in the safe side and am actually advertising correctly. You just don't trust the concept 
20:06:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> brams0[m]: From localmonero?
20:06:49 <brams0[m]> Yep
20:06:56 <edge7[m]> brams0[m]: Where and how. 1 hour is a bit too much
20:07:12 <brams0[m]> Localmonero
20:07:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> 2 transactions. 20mins/10 confirmations before it gets forwarded to you from escrow
20:07:17 <brams0[m]> No kyc no id
20:07:24 <brams0[m]> Paypal though
20:07:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> You should see your funds in your wallet after 10 c(nfs 
20:07:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> Paypal doesnt matter, what matters is, "did they finalize?"
20:07:57 <edge7[m]> I guess you paid a huge spreads. How many usd for 1 monero? 
20:08:00 <brams0[m]> 10c?
20:08:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> If they finalized the trade, youre looking at ~20 mins before the funds are sent to you
20:08:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> 10 confs*
20:08:24 <brams0[m]> Yep, they told me its on the way
20:08:38 <ofrnxmr[m]> Confirmations (10x2mins = 20mins)
20:08:54 <brams0[m]> Oh so 20 mins?
20:09:34 <brams0[m]> Okay
20:10:31 <brams0[m]> How traceable is it? Compared to btc
20:10:35 <edge7[m]> Is this the first time for you? I was worried as well my first time. Be sure the address you pasted is correct. Also check what local monero platform says for that particular transaction 
20:10:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> edge7[m]: No, its not me
20:11:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its common knowledge and a security advisory 
20:11:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Do not use remote nodes of whom you dont know
20:11:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Simple mode has long been a problem, and im saying it should be sunset
20:11:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> brams0[m]: The xmr or paypal?
20:11:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Compared to btc is like comparing fish swimming to horses swimming 
20:12:17 <edge7[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Yes but majority of people will use the simple mode, me included when I started. You cannot expect every person is techy. The more good people offer public nodes advertised the better for the network 
20:12:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> No they wont
20:12:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not once its removed 
20:13:06 <edge7[m]> Is there any road map to remove it? 
20:13:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont expec them to be techu
20:14:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> They can use feather wallet and get an ideal experience without the potential of being robbed or having their privacy eroded
20:14:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> edge7[m]: We dont do "roadmaps" per se
20:14:04 <brams0[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Both
20:14:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> But yes
20:14:20 <brams0[m]> Like could someone tell that I bought it from pp?
20:14:30 <brams0[m]> I'm guessing not
20:14:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> yes
20:14:59 <ofrnxmr[m]> If the seller sells xmroften, paypal can be pretty sure youre buying what that person claims to sell
20:15:39 <brams0[m]> Yeah but what I do with the xmr isn't linked to me?
20:15:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its not linked to you
20:15:52 <brams0[m]> They can't tell what I'm doing with it?
20:16:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> right
20:16:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you have time, check out the Breaking Monero series on youtube
20:17:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> And edge7:  specifically the video on remote nodes for you
20:17:47 <brams0[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: alrighr
20:17:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is old news, before we learned of new attacks, some of which require a hard fork to mitigate 
20:25:55 <brams0[m]> I got some of it
20:26:08 <brams0[m]> I got 12 out of 15 usd
20:26:15 <brams0[m]> I got to wait for the rest?
20:26:28 <brams0[m]> I'm using the feather wallet if it helps
20:27:26 <edge7[m]> Why you say 12?
20:27:37 <brams0[m]> Yep it's going up
20:27:41 <edge7[m]> How are you computing the usd value 
20:27:56 <brams0[m]> edge7[m]: I paid for 15 USD worth of monero
20:28:06 <brams0[m]> and got 12 USD in my balance
20:28:19 <brams0[m]> Now I lost 1 cent
20:28:37 <brams0[m]> edge7[m]: With the feather calc
20:29:38 <edge7[m]> Just look at MONERO. NO USD. have you got the right amount of monero or not? 
20:30:23 <brams0[m]> I don't know, I chose 15 USD on localmonero
20:31:06 <edge7[m]> But there must be written the exchange rate you paid.. 
20:31:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Localmonero sellers set their own rates
20:31:25 <Rucknium[m]> 3 USD was the fee charged by the person you traded with, probably. If you want someone to provide a service, you have to pay them.
20:31:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> The trade on localmonero shows how much xmr you were supposed to get
20:32:25 <brams0[m]> Yeah I got the right value
20:32:29 <brams0[m]> Thanks guys
20:32:29 <edge7[m]> I suspect you have paid a fairly large spread. That is xmr / USD is now at 161.2. But the trader applied a spread. They always do, especially with paypal
20:33:01 <brams0[m]> Yeah paid like 17usd 
20:33:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah, especially if they are paying fees on their end 
20:33:10 <brams0[m]> Paypal fees
20:35:40 <M-coffeeplease-[> Stupid question maybe, but what is "spread"?
20:37:29 <brams0[m]> M-coffeeplease-[: Not stupid, got no clue aswell
20:40:32 <edge7[m]> If something is quoted at N but I sell you at K where K > N then K-N is the spread. Basically a fee. 
20:41:17 <edge7[m]> To be precise the spread is the gap between the bid and the ask prices of a security or asset
20:43:18 <M-coffeeplease-[> Ah, thanks! Was trying to look that up some time ago and could not find. Probably off-topic here, so sorry for that. Thanks again.
20:44:03 <edge7[m]> If you look carefully in local monero many traders buy at N but sell at K. This is perfectly normal. But the most liquid is the market the lower is the spread.
20:44:03 <edge7[m]> In local monero I have seen huge spreads when paying with PayPal or bank sepa. Much less when paying with bitcoin or similar
20:45:08 <edge7[m]> Kraken offers fair spreads but is an exchange with all the cons 
20:48:10 <M-coffeeplease-[> Yeah, I buy mostly on Kraken now. When the Monero are in my own wallet they are "gone", right? I could as well have had a boating accident  or lost them in a gamble.
20:48:50 <M-coffeeplease-[> Thanks for your explanation! Very helpfull.
20:59:39 <edge7[m]> What do you mean by gone? They know to which address they have been sent. And they obviously know who you are as the KYC policy 
21:11:53 <M-coffeeplease-[> There is an address on Kraken where I get my bought moneroj in. I withdraw those to some address. A secondary address of my own wallet presumably, but could  have been anyones address. I just want to say, 'they' don't know if I still own those moneroj or not. 
21:13:23 <ceetee[m]> they can't see if you ever spend the funds, but they can see that you keep withdrawing to the same address. The also know the amounts and times when you bought and withdrew.
21:15:47 <M-coffeeplease-[> Not the same address in my case, but yes you are right. 
21:17:26 <edge7[m]> They cannot know if the address where they sent the funds to still have those moneros. With bitcoin they could. But not with monero
21:19:25 <M-coffeeplease-[> They can see I am into Monero. Not a problem that violates my threat-model now, but might become a problem in the future. Hmm, need to think a bit further on that.
21:21:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> in theory
21:21:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> In practice, there are plenty of ways to expose yourself as having access to funds that were reported to be in a boatinf accident
21:23:01 <edge7[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Example please? 
21:24:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Example:
21:24:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> you make 25 withdrawals to the same wallet, using different subaddresses but the same wallet. You use 3 or 4 different services (swap, cex, localmonero, a mining pool). You dont make any spends during the time you receive these 25 transactions. 
21:26:17 <nioc> can anyone determine that you didn't make any spends?
21:26:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> yes, if later consolidate 
21:26:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> if you*
21:27:07 <edge7[m]> Not got the point. What you mean by consolidate 
21:27:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> i was replying to nioc
21:27:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> My reply for you is in progress 
21:28:10 <nioc> do those listed entities need to communicate to determine that you haven't spent?
21:28:50 <ofrnxmr[m]> only the source and the spy. The recipient doesnt need to collab
21:30:17 <nioc> I wasn't including the recipient.  Also consolidating doesn't mean an amount wasn't spent
21:31:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> Now, you have 25 inputs in your wallet, lets say 7 from cex, 7 from swap site, 7 from localmonero and 4 from a mining pool. Lets assume the total value of these is $2500
21:31:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> you now have a boating acident and claim to have lost these funds. The government accuses you of owning the 14 outputs from the swap site and cex. lets assume the government also has info from mining pool.
21:31:22 <ofrnxmr[m]> you now, some time later, need to make a $2500 transaction and do it by spending the 25 inputs together. If the government sees all 14 decoys in the same tx, they can preclude that you owned all of those oroginal, unspent outputs, and also notice that 5 payouts from a mining pool are in this same pool as well, leading to assumption that this same wallet is also owner of the subaddress from mining pool
21:32:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> nioc: By spent, im not referring to "sent to someone else", im referring to "made a transfer" (and consolidated inouts) whether to yourself or otherwise.
21:33:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> P2pool.observer has a good example of this by showing when miners true spends are fingerprintable
21:33:15 <plowsof11> <cryptofix[m]> "@edge7 just make sure you..." <- Banhammer:?
21:33:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!ajcjqFotPWktuuDLkl:monero.social/$sGOvsy2Gx59j1S5oWtFPknamtNqIdRxb_ym4iD6rM90?via=monero.social&via=matrix.org&via=magicgrants.org
21:34:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> This person needs the hammer
21:34:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> They posted in monero groups too, i dont remember which
21:35:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> Im not sure about cryptofix though.
21:35:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Oh, it was NWLB No Wallet Left Behind 
21:37:57 <nioc> mining wallet should always be a separate wallet
21:39:14 <nioc> the address is public
21:47:57 <edge7[m]> The example sounds convoluted to me. Maybe I have some gaps. But you are mixing too many things. The government would see a lot of decoys give the number of input spent.. 
21:56:50 <M-coffeeplease-[> <nioc> "the address is public" <- Addresses aren't on the blockchain, so why should that be a separate wallet?
21:59:22 <nioc> if you give a cex your address now your mining wallet is tied to your identity.  Why would you want to do that?
22:00:48 <nioc> not only is your mining address public but also the mining payouts 
22:02:27 <edge7[m]> <M-coffeeplease-[> "Addresses aren't on the blockcha..." <- He is talking about pool mining. Do not get confused. Addresses in normal transactions are definitely obscured 
22:09:27 <M-coffeeplease-[> Okay, just to understand things better. A mining pool mostly needs the primary address iirc. The cex doesn't. So If I mine in a pool and use a secunday address for the cex, is there some problem in that? In this example I am not gonna spent all my moneroj in one time as in the example ofrnxmr gave earlier. 
22:09:58 <M-coffeeplease-[> s/spent/spend/
22:11:50 <M-coffeeplease-[> On second thought, I don't think a primary address is needed in an miningpool, not sure though.
22:39:45 <nioc> primary address is needed for mining unless they changed that while I wasn't looking  :)
22:50:55 <Rucknium[m]> Is that only if the miner is mining the coinbase output to their own address? People pool mining are mining to the pool operator's address. Those miners should be able to tell the mining pools to send payments to subaddresses.
23:19:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes
23:19:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can use any address with most pools
23:21:42 <ofrnxmr[m]> Coinbase nerds main address. 
23:21:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> address doesnt matter here. Reusing an address is an overt privacy leak, but combining outputs is a more covert.
23:21:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> The exsmple i gave was an extreme
23:23:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> If i have 1 transaction (A) from binance now, and another next year, then spend them both together, binance knows i still held the A output
23:23:19 <dark[m]> how's coinbase's lawsuit going?
23:23:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monero Offtopic 
23:23:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Coinbase has nothin 2 do with xmr