00:22:47 selsta: I have an example relay/bridge currently running for p2pool stuff, I could extend it to relay other rooms. Config is mainly here https://git.gammaspectra.live/P2Pool/p2pool-observer-bridge using matterbridge 00:24:02 DataHoarder: can you link a channel? I know about #monero-pow and #p2pool-mini or so? 00:24:21 #p2pool-observer if you want to do testing 00:24:26 internal channel for observer 00:24:36 otherwise #p2pool-mini / #p2pool-log 00:24:55 https://matrix.to/#/#p2pool-observer:monero.social / https://matrix.to/#/#p2pool-log:monero.social / https://matrix.to/#/#p2pool-mini:monero.social 00:25:27 I have it currently setup to relay join/parts from IRC side, but that might be too spammy for some 00:27:04 ys join / part would need to be off for the larger channels 00:27:54 I'll probably turn it off regardless, quite spammy at times even in small channels 00:30:57 adding new channels is easy for you? 00:31:01 yep 00:31:23 ok nice i'll ask others and then message you about it 00:31:34 I could make a new user for the monero channels so it doesn't show p2pool-relay as well 00:31:54 sure, poke, might be around for a while otherwise later 00:32:59 will be tomorrow for me 17:46:25 i have sent a message to the matrix moderators reg. the temp bridge DataHoarder wants to set up, i would very much like that to 'happen', does it need any special permissions from an OP? 17:47:30 No permissions needed, but voice on the bot would be good status wise 17:47:38 Otherwise it is a normal user 17:48:12 when its set up im sure luigi1111 or binaryFate can handle that 17:48:23 it needs access to the room on both sides, but they are all public 17:48:54 I can setup a different user than p2pool-relay, too 17:50:57 Which channels should be relayed? 17:51:07 that sounds great when you have the time to do so 🙏 👍 (matrix side perms would also be set np) 17:53:55 good question , "everything" right, but as its temporary, the main ones right now would be #monero-dev #monero-research-lab #monero #monero-community #no-wallet-left-behind 18:00:48 maybe #monero :) 18:02:16 Lounges as well? 18:02:47 yes lounge too 18:03:06 the "full list" of Monero rooms on matrix is available in uhm 18:03:51 also - it is setup so if somehow the EMS bridge comes back, it will not re-bridge relayed messages - either on matrix by looking at :libera.chat ending or looking at [m] ending. Just to limit spam if it comes back 18:04:04 wow 18:04:06 (once it comes back it can just be removed) 18:07:17 unrelated but the topic in monero-community had the link for the monero spaces channel and its now gone (i may have unknowingly asked for this to happen) 18:07:30 matrix side^ 18:09:31 ignore^ on matrix side , it seems to have reverted to 2021 days lol 18:21:35 #monerospace:monero.social is the matrix space of all Monero.social channels 18:27:48 is it possible to create a monero.social account without passing a mail? getting tedious to setup another protonmail :D 18:41:17 hello from IRC 18:41:52 XD 18:42:41 inb4 I need to clean the history of the bot manually 18:43:21 So spirobel: decides for all of us, let's go MIT. It's decided after all. (?). Yeah man, let's all trust him. He is the expert in this area and, as a good expert, he is open to explore even bettter solutions. It's only about licenses, no biggy. 18:43:21 I have tried to get this discussion going based on knowledge, whatever the choiche would be. 18:43:22 It's all about pushing and aggressive language. If that is the way important decisions are made here, so be it. I'm done and hope spirobel: is proud on this one man decision for the whole project. 18:43:41 seems to work! 18:46:51 the bot user is registered under my user (well, tied to my user as a bot, but it's a different account) 18:47:11 welcome to those that are stuck in the matrix 18:47:21 not only has DataHoarder contributed to Ruckniums efforts in getting a Monero tx's first confirmation 60 seconds quicker https://monero.observer/rucknium-monero-transaction-confirmations-now-60-seconds-faster/ , create / maintain https://p2pool.observer/ , they have also set up a temporary bridge for Matrix<->IRC 18:48:03 :D 18:48:20 the list of what is bridged at this moment is here https://git.gammaspectra.live/P2Pool/p2pool-observer-bridge/src/branch/master/matterbridge.toml.example#L488-L550 18:48:37 Thank you, DataHoarder 18:48:53 I can grow the list no problem, I'll go through the whole list later if needed 18:49:18 running config is the same as in repository, with proper passwords ofc 18:51:25 if there are any issues with the bridge poke on IRC if able, that has proper push notifications going through, sleep time 18:53:27 goodnight, and thank you 18:53:51 Thank you 18:55:36 ah, forgot to bridge #monero-support, added that 18:56:46 DataHoarder: oh no, relay quit evrywhere 18:57:05 to add new channels afaik I need a restart, it was for #monero-support 18:57:17 I think it joined again everywhere else 18:57:46 no touching now :) 18:58:09 fr 18:59:16 CCS merges can/will happen on the 14th , sharpen your pitchforks 19:00:40 I agree with hator that declaring consensus usually means that there isn't consensus. 4 for, 3 against, maybe? 19:00:58 What's the saying, a king doesn't need to declare himself king? 19:01:28 Licensing on an alternative Monero node implementation seems pretty important. 19:03:58 wait... siren is le female????? 19:04:03 *tips fedora* 19:04:57 selsta recanman boog900 kayabanerve 14th is next CCS merging opportunity 19:06:08 naphtha: could you not? Even if it's done ironically, it's still extremely cringy and pointless, and adds nothing to the conversation 19:12:54 careful naphtha, we do not want an emojigate 2.0! 19:13:20 niggas been circlejerking about A FUCKING LICENSE FOR TWO DAYS and when i make a joke IM the bad guy 19:13:26 now yuo see... 19:14:02 i am for MIT "cuck" license, admittedly, i do not know much about it - i just see it in terms of worrying about what people use Monero for. i totally get where the "its foss but if you want to use it in your app, open source everything or pay us a fee" is needed if you need to put food on the table from work you alone have produced 19:15:50 Pay us a fee part does not come with the license, FYI 19:21:02 it doesnt but companies usually pay for a special license when the project is *gpl* 19:21:16 it doesnt but companies usually pay for a special license when the project is \*gpl\* 19:23:16 Only if that is offered 19:24:37 You can't buy proprietary MoneroPay (GPLv3) >:( 19:26:09 Could you provide an example? I guess it's possible but it's definitely not a common practice. 19:27:00 Unless luigi yolo merges on tuesday, right? 19:28:29 ive heard of plenty devs receiving private requests for alternative licenses, nothing public i can find THOUGH 19:28:42 do irc pings work? Or just 2way comms 19:29:57 pings should work (at least in my irc client) - just not DM's ofcourse 19:30:32 try pinging me 19:31:44 I have been pung 19:32:16 https://www.wolfssl.com/license/ 19:32:16 Still, companies don't need to buy licenses if they produce FOSS software. 19:33:01 https://github.com/vtnerd/monero-lws/blob/master/LICENSE monero-lws is BSD-3 . im not sure about RINO/MyMonero/Monero-js yes - or how they all play together 19:33:51 can you hear me nioc from across the void 19:34:07 isnt bsd even more cucked? like that one meme of apple inc donating 5$ a month to the freebsd foundation? 19:34:31 rucknium, I can hear you but I don't get pinged 19:34:44 m-relay has +B set 19:34:48 just highlighted here 19:34:48 aka, bot mode 19:35:14 pings work here - note that on the IRC side the part (or on Matrix) is made to not ping, the rest of the message is fair game 19:35:22 I can make it not set +B mode if wanted? 19:35:55 Matrix users get pinged from the IRC bridge, FWIW 19:36:14 yep - if I do DataHoarder it pings me on elements at least 19:36:34 DataHoarder, could you set up a bridge for #monero-research-lab:monero.social ? Or already set up? 19:36:37 or Rucknium for example 19:36:44 afaik it's already online 19:36:53 Thank you! 19:38:29 nioc: Does this do the ping? Maybe I have to @ you 19:38:48 yes pinged now 19:40:00 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Back in business ? 19:40:37 list of currently birdged channels is here ^ on the previous git link, or in channels where you see m-relay online 19:40:38 Interesting. I guess this is where CLA nonsense comes from: they need contributors' approval 19:40:39 https://github.com/wolfSSL/wolfssl/pull/6256#issuecomment-1494364280 19:40:40 >I don't recognize your GitHub name. Have you contributed to wolfSSL before? If not, we'll need to have a contributor agreement on file for you in order to merge this PR 19:42:04 Interesting. I guess this is where CLA nonsense comes from: they need contributors' approval for dual-licensing 19:42:05 https://github.com/wolfSSL/wolfssl/pull/6256#issuecomment-1494364280 19:42:06 > I don't recognize your GitHub name. Have you contributed to wolfSSL before? If not, we'll need to have a contributor agreement on file for you in order to merge this PR 19:42:38 if spammy bridging of edits can be altered - or at leats add an (edited) tag 19:42:46 *least* 19:44:26 Recently the spammy edit messages were made better. They just sent from Matrix the passage that was edited, plus the adjacent words. With this new bridge, I don't know 19:44:44 Recently the spammy edit messages were made better. They just sent from Matrix the passage that was edited, plus the adjacent words. With this new bridge, I don't know. Let's try. 19:45:07 Looks like it's spammy again 19:46:34 that was a different bridge run by EMS with all the message loss% issues 19:46:44 different software 19:48:29 will leave for now, poke in an idle time across rooms to make the change 19:52:04 plowsof: just to be clear, this was not Cat posting https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/404#note_22054 19:52:42 even though she would agree 19:53:00 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> God i hate when the bridge looks like <> 19:53:27 at least it's a bridge that works \o/ 19:53:32 There's also: 19:53:32 * Anaconda/Conda https://anaconda.org/ 19:53:34 * Ansible https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/community/contributor_license_agreement.html 19:53:35 WolfSSL is by the cURL main developer. All three of these companies and projects are very successful. Despite what was told here before. 19:53:38 > <@silverpill:poa.st> Interesting. I guess this is where CLA nonsense comes from: they need contributors' approval 19:53:39 > https://github.com/wolfSSL/wolfssl/pull/6256#issuecomment-1494364280 19:53:40 > >I don't recognize your GitHub name. Have you contributed to wolfSSL before? If not, we'll need to have a contributor agreement on file for you in order to merge this PR 19:53:41 There's also: 19:53:43 * Anaconda/Conda https://anaconda.org/ 19:53:44 * Ansible https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/community/contributor_license_agreement.html 19:53:45 WolfSSL is by the cURL main developer. All three of these companies and projects are very successful. Despite what was told here before. 19:53:47 > <@silverpill:poa.st> Interesting. I guess this is where CLA nonsense comes from: they need contributors' approval 19:53:48 > https://github.com/wolfSSL/wolfssl/pull/6256#issuecomment-1494364280 19:53:49 > >I don't recognize your GitHub name. Have you contributed to wolfSSL before? If not, we'll need to have a contributor agreement on file for you in order to merge this PR 19:53:51 There's also: 19:53:52 Anaconda/Conda https://anaconda.org/ 19:53:53 Ansible https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/community/contributor_license_agreement.html 19:53:54 WolfSSL is by the cURL main developer. All three of these companies and projects are very successful. Despite what was told here before. 19:54:12 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Nioc is alive 19:54:14 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> ! 19:54:50 hi bob, have you seen Dan? 19:55:20 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Neg 19:56:50 that is spammy for big messages, wow 19:57:56 These products are developed by companies, and they have an incentive to do the dual-licensing trick. Free labour etc etc 19:57:56 But Cuprate is not a company, as far as I know. So I think the concerns about CLAs are not really relevant. 19:59:17 You're absolutely right. A CLA isn't required or related to any copyleft license, including strictly copyleft licenses like those from GNU. 20:06:05 Yeah I know, I'm just trying to imagine how GPL could create to atmosphere of fear and legal uncertainty, as spirobel suggested. 20:06:12 Yeah I know, I'm just trying to imagine how GPL could create an atmosphere of fear and legal uncertainty, as spirobel suggested. 20:12:56 It can't. It's yet another copyleft license. You'd only get involved in court if you find a party that violates the licensing terms and you really care about suing them. MIT/Apache/BSD is more likely to cause uncertainty or fear because they aren't battle-tested in court like AGPL/GPL: http://gpl-violations.org/news/ 20:25:11 maybe they are not "battle-tested in court" because there is nothing really litigious about using a permissive license 20:27:18 AGPL/GPL gives rise to a degree of centralization over the code 20:27:49 for pet projects, it might be okay 20:29:06 There have been many violations of such licenses still 20:29:19 Where's the centralization? 20:29:48 the authors of PR 20:29:54 Can be hundreds or thousands 20:30:03 Or it can even be FSF, FSFE or another organization 20:30:10 that is the problem 20:30:11 That isn't called centralization 20:30:17 Nor it is a problem 20:31:37 for Cuprate, there is one developer that can't be contacted 20:32:11 You aren't allowed to change that part's license even if it were MIT 20:32:15 I don't see your point 20:34:57 MIT is not as burdensome as AGPL/GPL, which wouldn't necessitate a change in the license 20:35:47 developers can build on top of MIT and do whatever they want with the code as long as the very minimal license are followed 20:36:02 requirements 20:40:24 i have no problem with AGPL/GPL for small projects 20:41:53 I don't see the burden in using GPL/AGPL because the project was already licensed that way. 20:41:57 but for core code that is can be part of the plumping of a larger project, having a hard copyleft complicates things and could hamper growth in the ecosystem for projects and services 20:42:40 This goes true for AGPL/GPL too. Free software devs don't need to do anything additionally. This only affects proprietary projects. 20:42:55 but for core code that is can be part of the plumbing of a larger project, having a hard copyleft complicates things and could hamper growth in the ecosystem for projects and services 20:43:49 proprietary projects should be free to do what they wish with the code 20:43:54 And about AGPL, they're free to use it over the network without disclosing any of the proprietary code of the higher level application. 20:44:14 The only disclosure needed are their changes to Curpate when they modify Cuprate itself. 20:44:36 freedom to do.... and freedom from interference 20:45:41 I would not like this as a maintainer and I don't use proprietary software myself personally. But at the end of the day the maintainers have to decide. 20:45:46 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Free beer 20:47:04 I also refuse to believe proprietary services are good for our ecosystem. They can be used to violate our privacy. 20:50:00 it is your right to refuse to use the service or contribute to the code. 23:16:39 You know what's worse then proprietary software? 23:16:41 Kemalism