03:02:24 no idea what monero discords rules are 04:06:54 <123bob123:matrix.org> Why go to discord when your here in the matrix 04:22:51 "B-b-but MUH FRIENDS USE IT!!!!" 04:23:35 "B-b-but MUH FRIENDS USE DISCORD!!!!" 04:26:45 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/vqsbwmDtDcSmjfOrnTcoIyJV 05:41:41 There is a good discord client 05:41:41 It's named "ripcord". 05:41:41 made in c++, compact and very fast 05:41:42 Also very easy to get ban from discord if you are too fast for there web technology (they can flag you as a bot very easily) 05:51:58 peeling back the onion of degeneracy: irc i only use teegram to keep up to date with jersh 06:04:17 also every layer above irc includes more entities who can ban you (including the bridge operator) 06:05:46 some people like being policed though so I get it :p 06:08:54 :ZFS: 06:16:21 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/lcrluoCXwkqUpadaDrzidyDW 06:16:27 Oh no, VPNbros.... 06:33:52 oof 06:48:37 matrix mods are more chill tho 14:45:00 I have a conflict and will not be able to attend today's meeting 14:45:26 please give me full chain membership proofs 14:56:40 noted 14:57:34 wen meeting 14:58:13 in 2 mins, monerobull asked for a ping 14:58:36 Hello thanks plow 15:00:35 hello 15:00:39 Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/886 15:00:43 Greetings! 15:00:47 yo 15:00:54 hi 15:01:07 ofrnxmr and geonic have jumped over the imaginary broomstick today and are not banned in events anymore for those wondering (events meeting in 2 hours) 15:02:39 Hi 15:03:52 lets discuss some 3. Community highlights 15:03:54 hello everyone 15:04:08 [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/) has covered a fair chunk of highlights this week i noticed 15:04:15 causing the most noise: Bitmain releases [2 year old](https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-pow/20230827#c275018) hardware that could be [bricked](https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-pow/20230827#c275167). currently [~17% of network hash](https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-pow/20230827#c275098) - sech1 the ASIC bricker 15:05:08 I don't see the point in bricking them 15:05:10 It's just some above average efficiency cpus 15:05:15 Getting them distributed to real people is way better than leaving them with Bitmain 15:05:33 i learned that risc-v is pronounced risc-five , and that is open source / royalty free cpu 15:06:28 Crippling all of riscv for this doesn't make sense imo 15:06:46 its not an asic 15:06:51 its a nonissue 15:06:54 true not an asic 15:06:57 that was the sentiment in the pow room as well 15:06:59 next 15:07:39 thanks for crunching the numbers ct (comparing hardware prices for $/H/s) 15:08:55 I wonder if Bitmain even made money 15:09:41 We need to see how much will be the price… 15:09:45 #monero-pow:monero.social is where this was discussed in detail for those not in the know, they where in profit 2 years ago ~ 15:10:15 after the first teardown we can estimate their profit 15:10:19 Well, they has mining 2 years + now they will sell Used hardware so I thing yes 15:10:34 still "guess the price mode" aka let bitmain see how much profit they can squeese out of them / tell them what you are willing to pay 15:11:20 If they didn't get special electricity prices or extra money for providing binance with xmr, I don't think they would have made money all bear market 15:11:28 not an asic as r4v3r said earlier AND Monero appearing all over the youtuber mining scene / news sites is a win 15:12:12 Yeah, only downside is the confused people who think "haha we just fork the Algo" 15:12:27 bitmain should publish the schematics on [HushPics](https://hushpics.xyz/) for some more profit - image hosting service that obscures uploads - users send XMR to see the original - lza_menace 15:14:42 any other highlights? (other than the retroactive funding request that is up for discussion later) 15:15:03 monerosupplies has been migrated to a new provider, if there are any issues, please report 15:15:29 also, SerHack all throughout last week the plugin hasnt been recognizing incoming payments, any idea what might be up with that? 15:16:17 ah yeah, "not recognising incoming payments" kinda of a big deal ... thankfully we have someone to hopefuly work on that 👀 15:16:43 its not a big deal actually, i just have to manually check that an order was paid 15:18:55 Boogs proposal is almost funded btw 128/130 👍️ 15:19:03 lets jump into the merge requests if no more highlights 15:19:15 a. [recanman to take over Monero integrations pt. 3](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/402) 15:19:17 this proposal was discussed last meeting with a positive merge sentiment however not much activity on gitlab (thank you ceetee for leaving some feedback) - would anyone like to voice their opinion on merging/closing this after reading the merge request description? (no extra funds have to be raised, simply transferred to recanmann who has already made that serhack has approved). w 15:19:17 e can get a 'dormant since 2020' ccs proposal completed then. 15:19:30 perhaps monerobull has an opinion (being a merchant that uses the monero-php / wordpress plugin) 15:20:28 It's probably not getting much activity on gitlab since it doesn't appear on the Idea page of the CCS website 15:21:10 yeah 15:21:25 i didnt notice this before at all 15:22:20 so what has happened: recanman has closed the bitejo proposal temporarily in favour of a hidden merge request 15:22:22 seems like a decent proposal with no downsides 15:24:08 anyone here who didnt vote to merge/close on this last meeting please voice your opinion and we never have to discuss it again ! 15:24:25 i like the optimism 15:26:23 i will vote my own merge request up if need be. desperate times, desperate measures 15:27:31 I think TrasherDK was concerned about security review of the PHP. Unfortunately none of these non-core software proposals have received security reviews AFAIK, so the precedent is caveat emptor for users. SerHack is a security researcher and could informally review the result, I guess. 15:28:07 indeed, at least, with this proposal, it is only completed after serhack reviews and merges each pull request 15:30:28 we can move on with an extra +merge from monerobull to add to the previous meetings votes? 15:31:23 b. [Add retroactive funding proposal for FCMPs](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403) 15:31:48 now, at 10 thumbs up and 0 thumbs down - a simple decision no? :) 15:31:49 indeed. 15:34:43 Going by the votes its clear, but I wished that the people who were not happy with this proposal either vote or show up today 15:34:46 not happy according to the gitlab comments I mean 15:36:58 there are compelling arguments in the comments. one small thing i noticed was jtgrassie linking a rejected "RandomX Thanks" -> there are 2 'gifts' in this proposal -- one for jberman which is not a gift - it was contracted work @ 36 hours. but the other for Liam Eagen seems to be a definite 'Thanks' gift .. hbs requested a breakdown of hours worked that would take 3-6 hours to pro 15:36:58 duce but kayaba deemed it to be not required. Koes comment too.. how do you respond to that https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403#note_22226 15:38:38 imo "retroactive funding" shouldn't be prohibeted in general and I agree with kayaba on this quote "I personally believe the CCS should allow retroactive funding, with discussion on if the work produced offers benefit appropriate to the requested amount." 15:39:57 id say the stuff hes been working on was undeniably important for the project and people have been wanting to get rid of rings for a long time 15:40:10 mj-xmr can kick start his ccs career again via retroative funding proposals 15:40:20 its not like he worked on some crap nobody asked for and then demands a lof ot money for it 15:40:39 its not like he worked on some crap nobody asked for and then demands a lot of money for it 15:40:43 monerobull how can ya say 100% of people want this tho 15:40:45 Breakdown of any engineering work is hard, even more so for code - I don't think it can be retroactively summarized, and definitely not with the accuracy we want. 15:40:50 This is true 15:40:58 you dont have to donate if you dont want it 15:41:01 100% of the community 15:42:02 arguable the sentiment for movie ccs was abysmal compared to this proposal 15:42:03 and it got moved to funding on the grounds that "you dont have to donate if you dont support it" 15:42:14 when the comments show otherwise, but sitll, overwhelmingly positive sentiments in the comment section 15:42:18 Moving to funding has literally no downsides, let donors decide if they want to give retroactive support 15:42:37 i would like to hear why movie ccs deserved to go to funding and why this proposal shouldnt 15:42:56 I don’t like “retroactive founding” but in the CCS there have been “exceptions” and I think maybe this should be one. As Monerobull says, it’s something important for the project and not a just expensive crap 15:43:50 And I think its an important to set a president that extraordinary dev work can get paid, even if it doesn't 100% align with all detailed rules ("no retroactive funding" is not eveb a rule btw) 15:44:11 if we approached cypherstack and said "can you beat the price of 41k to do this research" ahead of time, perhaps they could have given a better deal? we dont know 15:44:46 we never had the opportunity 15:44:50 had we approached some indie movie studio they might have made a whole movie about xmr for less than 25k... 15:45:03 we never had the opportunity 15:45:04 This kind of research/dev work can not be planned out like this plowsof 15:46:14 Sometimes you have to build on the spark of an idea first, before you can even explain it well to others 15:46:21 actually we do have the opportunity " If someone wishes to point out the work delivered could've been cheaper delivered by Cypher Stack or similar, I'd be open to reducing the request." 15:48:36 any other talking points? the anti retros are not in attendance hm 15:49:16 merge 👍 15:49:21 +1 15:50:10 yes merge, let donors decide 15:50:17 is serai-dex still going to use some mordinal type stuff if we dont get FCMP's kayabanerve (is this why your undertook the research?) 15:50:25 Where is our friend ofrnxmr ? 15:50:41 ofrnxmr is +merge for this, yesterday 15:51:07 merge 15:51:54 ofrn took some time of after a fight in the events room 15:52:22 with 10 mins left lets jump to the next idea 15:52:23 c. [Create Educational Content in Spanish](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/406) 15:52:33 by Lovera who has proposed a rate of 3.25$/hour 15:53:01 subsidized voluntary work 15:53:04 are we breaking any laws here? 15:53:13 Hello 15:53:15 This is my proposal, any questions I will be happy to answer 15:53:17 thank you to geonic for pointing this out 15:53:24 how did the last ccs go Lovera ? 15:53:53 just out of curiosity 15:54:07 subscriber count has increased at first glance, would be nice to have stats on the previous ccs sponsored videos 15:54:19 i remember there was also some drama with videos sponsored by cake or something like that 15:54:19 I would very much like a brief review of the content by someone who speaks/understands spanish 15:54:45 All good 😅 I think 🧐 15:55:19 10xmr for that work is unreasonable, it should be a little more 15:55:23 Yep, I made a clarification that the sponsored cake videos had nothing to do with the work proposed in the CCS 15:55:39 alright, id say merge 15:55:45 +1 15:56:04 Maybe payment should be increased a little 15:56:07 the ccs videos are without sponsored ads (however youtube may ad some cus reasons - but lovera disables them on his end) 15:56:28 what if the previous ccs had 0 views on all the videos? 15:56:55 i checked and this was not the case of course 15:57:10 The videos get pretty good traction from what I've seen 15:57:32 Well, as I told Geonic, I promised in my first CCS that I would not raise the price in XMR. So I won’t do it. 15:57:32 Also, in Venezuela the salary is $20 a week so lol, I’m fine. 15:58:52 i will need to talk to chatgpt as to why such low wages are bad 15:58:53 e.g. i am a spanish person who wishes to do the same but i can't undercut you 15:59:00 thus no ccs for me 16:00:10 hinto made a proposal of low wages and was told to higher it to something reasonable 16:00:13 In my opinion, I don't feel right with merging it, but it seems that you are insisting 16:00:13 plowsof you are notorious for doing community work off-hours, I can't undercut that price either 16:00:13 job security ++ / not eating for a month if i make a bad move to compensate 16:00:49 I’m fine, guys! Seriously!’s I think 3.5 XMR is a fair sum for the work to be done. 16:00:49 I work ~8 hours but I like what I do. 16:00:50 If I really need it, I will increase the fee. Nex CCS? 🤣 16:01:57 it's hard to judge the impact, but just looking at the amount of work, this seems more than fair 16:02:21 Yes! This 16:02:56 thank you for the proposal Lovera, a comment from a native spanish again e.g. anhdres is always good to have, early days yet, and geonics comment about perhaps teaming up with the RU (i know you also speak Russian) is food for thought also 16:03:58 1 xmr = 1xmr but slave labour sponsored by the CCS 💀 16:04:36 we have reached the hour, any further comments on Loveras proposal? or AOB? 16:06:35 To be honest, a while ago I asked them for help with “Hugo” to create a kind of Wiki Monero in Spanish but I think they passed me 😅 I will insist again. 16:06:35 The community in Russian has an very good Wiki about Monero 16:06:37 Lovera also went above and beyond with his previous proposal and incorporated some Monerokon stuff 👍️ (saved the community some funds instead of paying someone else to do the same work) 16:07:07 Hugo isn't too hard to get started with, message me and I can help you with it 16:07:53 events meeting in a little under 1 hours #monero-events:monero.social 16:08:11 what 16:08:14 i thought we had one last week 16:08:16 wait 16:08:20 We did? I don't recall so 16:08:28 Thank you recanman! I’ll take a look at it again and if I have doubts I’ll send you a DM 👍🏼 16:08:29 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/882 16:08:54 it appears we might not have? 16:09:13 I didn't see any meeting start/end last week 16:09:19 thank you for all attending , until next time 🙏 a pleasant rest of your weekend 16:09:23 events issue says 2nd september 16:09:29 bye 16:09:31 Thank you plowsof 16:09:33 Thanks for the moderation plowsof 16:09:35 Thank you plowsof, goodbye 16:10:24 msvb-lab has responded to the deprecation of hardware@ getmonero email also https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/879#issuecomment-1701840259 Dankon! 16:17:37 Wow is that an amalgamation of many different discussions 😅 None relevant to FCMPs though. 16:18:55 FCMPs resolve privacy issues and accordingly impact TX extra discussions. That's the closest it gets 16:21:52 <4rkal:matrix.org> Was just searching moneroOS on google to see if it had been picked up yet and found this https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9ck3l8/want_a_moneroonly_mining_os/ 👀. It uses archlinux as its base and is pretty similar to moneroOS (except for the persistency part) and the fact that it was abandoned in 2018. 16:22:24 <4rkal:matrix.org> Anyone have any more info on this project? Maybe know if the dev is still arround? 16:23:04 <4rkal:matrix.org> Anyone have any more info on this project? Maybe know if the dev is still around? 16:36:53 monerobull: you want to talk about the movie ccs? 16:37:13 Not really 16:37:14 Lmao 16:37:33 then why keep bringing it up? 16:38:39 Because it's a great comparison to argue kayabas proposal should be moved to funding? 16:38:48 in what way? 16:39:40 In that the arguments made to move it to funding were similar 16:39:44 the milestone in my ccs still isn’t completed and you might notice that I’ve decided not to collect any of the raised funds until it is 16:40:18 there are literally no milestones in kayaba’s prolosal 16:41:17 I don't really care about anything other than the "moving to funding" part of the process 16:41:24 Since the work is already done? 16:41:46 Can you tell me why the movie proposal should have gone to funding and kayabas proposal shouldn't? 16:42:08 do you mean that the “movie ccs” work is already done? 16:43:43 if that’s your impression I’d re-read the proposal 16:43:45 Idk, the movie was done before the proposal was made 16:43:47 But I've meant that Kayaba has already spent 1.5 months working on this 16:45:28 Look, I really don't care to argue about ccs stuff. I'm just of the opinion that since your proposal passed, this proposal which has way more impact on the core of monero itself should pass as well 16:45:39 The proposal was for an awards campaign that is about to begin. Literally none of that work has been done. 16:46:33 Kayaba could’ve spent 2 years working on it. What’s the difference? How many people worked on Monero code (and contributed much more than he has) without requesting to be paid after the fact? 16:47:05 and how does his request make them feel? 16:48:11 what example does it set and how does it alter the tone of open-source contributions? 16:50:32 Kayaba can redact his proposal to include some type of milestone (literally anything that is observable and not just “I think I’m on the right track guys”), charge for the remainder of the work, whether it’s a month or a year, and it will get funded 16:52:45 no one’s saying he can’t get paid. he knows how the ccs works. 16:55:41 geonic: Retroactive funding is a thing in the wider crypto community, and if you believe other people are also worthy of financial support for completed work, you should celebrate 16:55:41 1) Precedent 16:55:42 2) Each instance of successful retroactive funding, as it means someone worthy of payment received payment 16:56:39 that’s too much roundabout logic for me to parse 16:56:50 Whether or not this proposal is worthy is why it's been unmerged for as long as it has 16:57:37