00:36:01 <1​23bob123:matrix.org> So thats who took the chairs 03:38:11 Tools for building personalized ActivityPub sites already exist. One notable example is Wordpress which has a well-maintained ActivityPub plugin. 03:38:11 Is there some specific feature you want to see implemented? 03:38:12 If you're interested in Monero + ActivityPub working together, check out my project https://codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra 03:38:12 This is actually good news, I don't have to build it. The wordpress plugin makes it even better and much easier. And I've checked out your project and it seems pretty solid. It's pretty much what I would have wanted to do. Now, I have even more questions than answers, why don't people use activitypub though esp to make the circular economy 11:01:40 monero.town is getting used 12:16:23 Interesting, what about the UI? Isn't the reddit-like UI distracting? I get that lemmy is a link agregator, but I feel there's sth obvious I'm missing. Maybe I'm reinventing the wheel here. But ideally, I think there should be a similar experience to amazon/ebay etc but with the right foss software and minus the consumerist distractions. If monero takes out the currency distortion 12:16:23 through no inflation then we combine that with real goods and services, shouldn't we be able to ride that to the moon? And if we can federate all these shops then shouldn't that get rid of price distortions as well? And we can maximize efficiency by focusing on the real economy? Think about it, if we create a marketplace that is uncensorable then everyone can participate using mo 12:16:24 nero and it should weed out ineffeciencies. For example, how many contractors don't get the job because they lack some certification required by the bank? Assuming we have lending facilities in the marketplace secured by multisig then don't we have the basic building blocks? Even for sole proprieters to make it as well as big business? That's my line of thinking 12:22:42 i didnt know you meant in the context of a shop 12:23:21 town is supposed to be a backup to reddit 12:25:47 neroshop could be the decentralized marketplace you want but they need a c++ dev to make any more progress 12:26:38 I want a monero shop aggregator. Not a list of all shops, but a search tool that aggregates all listed products 12:27:23 I think that is the only way to circumvent the "too small for serious use" issue 12:27:34 depending on how the activity pub plugin works that could be doable 12:27:45 Ok, then I guess this is a different application though. Personally, I'm quite convinced that once multisig lands then we can get some bigger chunks of the economy eg real-estate, insurance, loans etc. Combine that with the aggregator and we're in business 12:28:31 best part of course is that you don't need to trust a third-party, you are the end-all, be-all 12:31:32 From what I heard from silverpill the aggregator part is already done though. He has his own project here: https://codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra. And I was told by multiple people that there's a wordpress activitypub plugin. Then it would just be a simple matter of spreading the word and getting as many "main" instances as possible. silverpill's is particularly interesting because 12:31:32 he has set up an invite feature that could be quite useful. It's all gpl too. It could just be a question of sending emails out and listing those businesses that would want to participate. Next, we channel traffic there. 12:31:41 could be done manually but takes a loooot of work to keep updated 12:32:40 could be done manually but takes a loooot of work to keep updated 12:32:40 Maybe at first, but as the db grows and the business case proves itself, it could be quite profitable 12:33:11 if there was a woocommerce plugin that works with activity pub that could link a bunch of shops together that would be awesome 12:33:31 only if you partner with every single shop manually 12:33:51 to get referral link 12:33:52 to get referral links 12:34:13 or i guess if you sell adds 12:34:16 or i guess if you sell ads 12:35:09 Isn't woocommerce a wordpress plugin? If wordpress officially supports activitypub shouldn't that be good enough? 12:36:14 im looking at the wordpress activity pub integration and it seems like its not designed in a way that would be useful to us 12:36:44 youd still need a plugin to put all the woocommerce products into one searchable site 12:38:19 revenue sources could also be build in swap service or shop verification checkmark (like twitter) 12:39:22 ads would be an anti-pattern I think. They distort consumer behavior. And they would lead to us competing with amazon/google etc 12:39:22 or instant updates for verified shops, but slow crawler for everything else to save on compute and bandwidth 12:39:36 yeah fuck ads 12:42:03 From what I can tell from this wordpress activitypub plugin spec, I don't think it should be a problem. It seems pretty standard. But yes, there needs to be some search functionality added to make it make sense for our purposes 12:43:13 https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/ 12:43:31 this looks like its only usefull to put your wordpress blog posts into someones mastodon feed 12:43:44 revenue sources could also be build in swap service or shop verification checkmark (like twitter) 12:43:45 This could be part of a larger feature-set if monetization proves to be an issue. However, I feel we can get most proprieters to pay us just for admin 12:44:37 activitypub is pretty standard when it comes to requests etc so we can create our own UI that can be used with the same plugin no stress 12:45:04 And we get free traffic from the rest of the fediverse as well 12:46:00 i personally have no idea how to write wp plugins but if you want to develop something id add it to monerosupplies.com :P 12:46:52 And we have our first supplier!!! 12:47:04 it would be in the sites best interest to include as many merchants as possible, even if they don't pay. Its not really viable to charge customers because they can just go to the store page themselfs. So charging sellers for some kind of "premium" function would be the best sistainablr long term strategy 12:48:02 sellers would also be incentivized to install the plugin 12:48:26 To include as many merchants as possible, it shouldnt be opt in, the same way you don't register to appear on google searches 12:49:41 yeah that doesnt work 12:49:56 not if you plan on using activity pub for product listings 12:50:08 sellers would have to install the plugin 12:50:19 Agreed. Plus, from my preliminary findings, server costs shouldn't be too expensive and with the wp plugin already done, basically we're talking about the client-side UI only for the "main" instances. 12:50:42 I'm lacking the technical background, my brainstorming is primarily from an end user perspective 12:51:35 I want to go on amazon.xmr, click on product and click on buy 12:51:52 if you want it to be decentralized it needs to actually use activitypub and not just rely on crawling sites 12:52:10 and this site would only redirect you to the original store 12:52:15 I think that is what is needed actually. The technical part's done. Like with most things blockchain, the experience is the problem. 12:52:29 unless you also develop a whole new payment gateway that can split up the funds 12:52:54 and this site would only redirect you to the original store 12:52:54 Perfect, the seller gets to provide their clients with the experience they want them to have 12:53:17 would it be possible to bridge "legacy" web pages to activitypub with eg. daily crawler? 12:53:20 in theory 12:53:26 I'm okey with this 12:53:46 Well, in the amazon-style listings, you can have the sellers details and avoid processing payments on their behalf 12:53:59 its garbage UX when you want to buy stuff from multiple different stores 12:54:24 better then what be currently have 12:54:34 so its more like idealo.xmr 12:55:46 i guess 12:56:37 best setup would be activitypub plugin that aggregates all products and then also handles payments to the respective stores 12:57:07 is it even possible to request a monero send-to-many payment? 12:57:39 like, 1 qr that auto-fills addresses and corresponding amounts 12:58:00 so that you can pay all the vendors in 1 tx 12:58:28 more then 2 outputs is bad for privacy 12:58:30 16 12:59:03 I don't know about splitting payments but payment cost is so low I think multiple payments is ok 12:59:15 can you put a 16 out in a single qr code? Or is that too much datam 12:59:36 waiting 20 minutes in between payments is terrible for shopping UX 12:59:44 16 is norm for exchanges, merchants etc, and 2nd most common 13:00:07 the 10 block lock is the main problem 13:01:08 you can send to 15 ppl + change in 1 tx using rpc, yes 13:03:11 a regular qr code cant store much data 13:03:22 Not 15 addr anyway 13:03:43 the 10 block lock is the main problem 13:03:43 Ok, I agree that 20 minutes between payments is a problem but if the client only has to wait for one payment then it's not too bad I guess? And payment confirmation is pretty fast, you could just go by that for payment verification, like exchanges, before the payment is fully completed, you can process the goods 13:04:02 Plus, if it needs delivery that takes time anyway 13:05:09 if you have 4 products in your cart you cant expect someone to sit there for an hour sending multiple payments 13:05:29 I see 13:05:35 a single sent-to-many would solve this 13:05:39 a single send-to-many would solve this 13:06:15 you just need to get it into the wallet because expecting the user to manually copy paste addresses and amounts will 100% lead to fuckups 13:06:21 or a churn tx, send to service, and service uses rpc to send to merchants 13:06:48 exactly 13:07:07 that could work but would make you take custody of funds, which would make it a centralized service 13:07:26 aka 13:07:53 my agg instance gets an order for a lambo from a different store 13:07:57 ill steal the money lol 13:10:00 same: how do we know youre not going to swap the addr you display 13:10:48 Tf. Msg didnt send 13:10:59 Nfc and anoneros qr might work 13:11:00 Say we create multisigs per transaction so the funds can't be stolen? 13:11:06 hm, yeah ok. this idea is dead. 13:11:11 Or monero:uri click button 13:11:42 yeah no you have to redirect people, anything else wont work. 13:13:34 Sign the XMR address with the SSL certs, then the client verifies. That would require some more programming :) You could use spirobel's browser extension idea to verify. 13:14:01 Monero has built in ... signing of some sort 13:14:35 Signing msgs using the addr iirc 13:15:21 this is terrible. went from "link aggregation" to "needs a new activtiy pub plugin, payment gateway and address verification" 13:16:12 You should just do redirects at first. See if the idea works. 13:16:15 meanwhile neroshop is basically this but as a separate application and without a dev 13:16:25 Then you don't have to do pay-to-many, too. 13:16:26 looking into it rn 13:18:03 Or what if the "main" instance just has time-lag problem but also supports redirects so that the client has both options? 13:18:56 i mean, this could work 13:18:57 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/lHDgTqAOXUdrvzJTUnoYawhv 13:19:22 but still 13:21:12 but still 13:21:12 This is the admin's value? Like monerica. In the future, the admin could have arrangements with sellers such that it's like a wholeseller-retailer kind of deal 13:30:37 well 13:30:41 there you have it 13:30:44 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/vTZmwRYgBfRhFYYxzcNDzdSu 13:33:40 i could make a site and manually link stuff 13:36:01 I gotta admit, I really like your shop. And your hustle. I'll get mine up and running too this week I swear! I've always wanted to do it and now I think I've got what I need. Say, we could try and do this federation thing yeah? 13:37:02 whats a good domain for a directory shop like this 13:37:07 ceetee: 13:38:31 should not contain xmr, monero and/or crypto 13:38:45 we have to many of those, they all sound the same 13:39:34 trocador, haveno, kuno are all good examples of naming 13:40:01 By the way, I've been speaking to many retailers and wholesellers where I'm from and for them they don't care too much about this blockchain business but they'll take cash. They said I could list their items and then we agree on commission etc. There's many transporters too on side. Basically, if we can sell it, we can list it. All that's left is things like financial services, bu 13:40:01 t all in good time. 13:41:54 Moneroshopping! 13:41:56 Jk 13:43:59 monerozon 13:44:06 Amaxmr 13:44:19 linkshop / shoppinglinks - you are talking about a aggregator thingy, right? 13:45:38 "the orange pages" 13:46:25 probably we shouldn't piggyback of some corpo tho 13:48:16 Smthn like amaxon (i think) 13:52:15 Id call it something opposite of private, like.. (exit creativity) "openpages" 13:53:04 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/mOiVHExctEChiEeHsSNkNnlP 13:53:17 when choosing name and logo we have to be careful that we don't end up like this 13:53:32 Haveno swaps back/front 13:53:38 because this convo reminds me of another project... 13:53:56 jinx 13:58:05 It could also be all of the above actually. I'd prefer that way. Like pirated anime streaming services. afaik, it should boost network stability. I wouldn't mind running different versions too. Experiment with different UIs, different product offerings, different UX etc for different niches. Same high quality though, just different experiences. 14:07:35 hm 14:08:15 thats more of a monerica thing though 14:08:31 not much sense listing aniwave.to on a monero product directory 14:09:27 Not in that sense. Like piratebay's hydra domain thing. Same backend multiple frontends 15:16:10 update on the "set to wrong address" reddit post from yesterday: waiting for the proof to be verified by Alex/Localmonero https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/17j1iww/comment/k71xt68/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 thanks for sharing it monerobull 15:16:52 👍️ 15:20:55 The user is in contact with binaryfate so I'm just waiting for his response if they need something. 15:22:04 probably send proof from the localmonero wallet that made the tx 😄 15:23:19 that is my understanding of how it works? it is LM's wallet which the user has no private keys for? 15:29:57 Alex | LocalMonero | AgoraDesk 15:35:04 We're in contact with this user. He already sent him something, he's waiting on a reply. 15:52:12 i asked a question reg who owns the wallet but thanks for the rephrased response