00:00:06 ping Rucknium ^ 00:06:42 You're welcomed, it was planned 00:07:55 is moonstone sqps new venture? 00:08:58 cat's out of the bag now. yeah it is one of them 00:09:20 cool stuff 00:09:56 I mean I can only see it helping Moneros privacy long term 00:09:58 are you making efforts to inform exchanges about the incident? 00:10:58 Not currently, I'm unfortunately way too busy with other stuff. It would be a big help if other people could reach out 00:11:20 I'm a literal nobody, I don't think that would do much.. 00:11:36 majesticbank have you seen any trades with those txids 00:11:52 job done, great work everyone 00:12:02 Morpheus: 00:12:35 monerobull has anyone used your referral code for a large swap recently 00:13:03 i think thats all our bases covered 00:13:06 Monero condoms r supposed to break. Is normal 00:13:42 if theyre smart, theyre hodling 00:14:29 Monerujo as a source tells me they planned to dumo 00:14:42 And just used a privacy friendly wallet 00:22:07 sgp: 00:22:14 intentional? 00:22:51 <123bob123:matrix.org> Does help xmr is blacklisted of exchanges 00:23:34 It would be a little shocking if a PocketChange tx was involved. Both because it's a new, rarely-used feature in a single wallet implementation and we discussed PocketChange privacy as a medium-importance research topic. 00:24:21 did rehrar / cyperstack design the website for you and serai? I guess that would explain it 00:24:44 It was a ccs rug safety safeguard 00:25:24 xmrack counted 11-out txs from May to July 2023 IIRC. The arrival of Pocketchange didn't show up above the background level of 11-outs 00:26:15 I can re-count. My counting box is a little busy. 00:26:51

Yea I can post the code for it tomorrow 00:27:14 (using swap space even with 256GB RAM 😬) 00:28:13 <123bob123:matrix.org> So where at defcon 1 peeps 00:28:44 im sad that i didnt get to see any of anhdres' illustrations in that report :( but a Monerujo shout out shall suffice! 00:28:55 <123bob123:matrix.org> Ruck find them and everyone lets meet in the #monero-war-room in 5 00:29:04 I can tell sgp wrote a lot of the Moonstone site himself since it has misspellings :P 00:30:31 A hacker so cool he couldn't wait 20' for his next club mate paid with XMR 00:31:23 <123bob123:matrix.org> I also told cloudflare” where under attack” 😬 00:31:26 Lol 00:32:08 My personal opinion is that this kind of analysis has low probability (5% or less) of recovering any funds. If the community wants me to try, I could do it. IMHO, SGP has done a pretty good job already. 00:33:33 With transparent blockchains, you know usually which addresses/outputs are adjacent to centralized exchanges would having to request exchange to do a "dragnet" database dump for you. That's the first barrier 00:34:03 <123bob123:matrix.org> Tbh, its probably a debt right off 00:34:16 <123bob123:matrix.org> We can claim in next financial year 00:34:42 Would an exchange say, "Yes, based on probabilistic analysis that has not been peer reviewed, we will give you these funds. Meanwhile, the thief has already exchanged the XMR for something else and withdrawn."? 00:35:37 <123bob123:matrix.org> Ima guess eth 00:35:47 Then, there is the risk of innocent people being accused. Ring size 16. On every transaction. 00:36:17 <123bob123:matrix.org> I accused ofrn already! 00:36:25 <123bob123:matrix.org> So thats 15 00:57:11 I don't think it can ever recover the funds.., Not after all that time. 00:57:11 The best a CEX can do probably is tell us where the person withdrew the BTC or ETH (addresses or TXID) 01:03:15 i didnt do it guys i swear on my mothers life 01:44:33 <123bob123:matrix.org> https://latesthackingnews.com/2023/05/21/ethical-hacking-cheatsheet-a-beginners-guide-to-penetration-testing/ 01:44:33 <123bob123:matrix.org> forgot i had this saved 03:47:43 it is just a bunch of speculation ... other wallets have similar features 03:47:57 it also does not matter the money is gone 03:48:13 the ccs needs to be shut down 03:48:27 and we need to stop acting like monkeys 03:48:29 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/17ncnew/monero_real_talk_shut_down_the_ccs/ 03:58:11 https://amycastor.com/2021/08/04/fluffy-pony-and-the-irresistible-cookie-jar/ 03:59:01 I thought the cookie jar analogy was fitting 03:59:41 this looks like an april fools site lol 04:00:58 imagine the irony if the cookie monster turned out to be a core team member currently on house arrest for allegedly defrauding a cookie company 04:01:26 honestly it does not even matter 04:01:46 your thesis is completely wrong though. people are social animals and they survive by cooperation. what you're saying is that cooperation is bad and people liking each other and wanting to work together is bad. 04:01:51 maybe it is all just an april fools joke like the fake announcement back in the day 04:02:40 cooperating is one thing. insincere back scratching to get to the cookie jar is another 04:02:44 also, perfect is the enemy of the good so let's destroy what we have because it doesn't match a perfect ideal that doesn't exist 04:03:11 okay fine. So I will take over luigis role from now on 04:03:16 send all the money to me 04:03:35 why? 04:07:16 Geonic is so annoying 04:07:18 because I will do a better job than this 04:07:20 Whoops. Wrong room 04:07:45 you're not solving the cookie monster problem 04:07:58 so why should we just take your word for it? 04:08:06 No cookies left 04:08:12 Problem solved 04:08:18 #monero-kindergarten please 04:08:30 Thats a ccs called monero garden 04:08:33 so why should we take someone elses word for it? this is just dumb 04:08:33 And geonic 04:08:42 Please stfu 04:08:52 Posting articles from 2019 is not relevant at all 04:09:08 Go watch yur movie 900k times and buy some fake views 04:09:09 luigi has been doing a perfect job for how many years now? what's your track record for doing this kind of work for the community? 04:09:10 Kthxbue 04:09:22 Perfect my ass 04:09:29 He merged u and paid mj 04:09:47 will you let us have a conversation, you demented spambot? 04:09:55 Nah 04:10:21 Take it to a relevant room 04:37:30 https://x.com/0xTurbamulta/status/1720204052443599132?s=20 04:37:31 hmm 04:39:58 <123bob123:matrix.org> im a sticking with ofrn doing it so geonic didnt get paid 04:53:08 He merged u and paid mj <= remember it is very hard to get something merged 04:55:58 soloptxmr? 04:56:11 Oh geo? 04:56:19 I remember 04:56:20 that was a bs merge luigi 04:56:30 No consensus 04:56:34 Feb 21 2023 04:57:08 there were no merges on table, no meeting. Just decided on your own after community said it was trash 04:57:39 https://matrix.to/#/!WzzKmkfUkXPHFERgvm:matrix.org/$Vc5JZAgM57iVAUSMY22dXSYlJTiOo4kyKV_FLaWHWq8?via=monero.social&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat 04:58:06 For matrix users ^ 04:58:21 > ok we merged the video. Can we merge another 1 or 3 to divert attention? 04:58:21 For luigi ^ 04:58:31 Random merger 05:00:04 and "remember"? 05:00:04 lol. I was there. At every meeting. 05:01:23 I dont have to "remember". Ive been saying the same thing since it was merged. Its a luigi merge, not a community one. No consensus 05:01:57 alts and friend voting it up and it has fucking nothing to do with monero 05:02:20 Not geo's alts. VC investor alts 05:02:51 it's consensus ideally. Otherwise some soft feeling 05:04:08 there were plenty of people in support 05:11:04 No there werent 05:11:37 Go check the upvotes: friends, jwinterm and alt accounts 05:11:45 And again, nothing to do with monero 05:11:58 Can i open a ccs for my new burger joint? 05:12:07 It has an M in it somewhere 05:13:08 Bullshit ccs, bullshit merge. Everybody and their neighbor kniws it. Only people in support are the 5 people who viewed it before the ccs was posted 05:13:24 And ignored the fact that it did NOT feature monero, despite the title of the ccs 05:16:43 Frontrunner for worse ccs of 2023 05:16:45 Worst 05:20:17 Seriously 05:20:22 Go through the list 05:21:05 Msvb's defcon attempt would have been worse 05:24:11 <123bob123:matrix.org> isnt he in japan? 05:24:19 <123bob123:matrix.org> saw some post 05:27:28 Monero Hardware 05:30:09 ``` 05:30:09 Distribution of Kastelo enclosures began at Nostr World in Hong Kong yesterday, and we are distributing them free of charge right now in front of the main stage. 05:30:09 ``` 05:30:10 nov 2 08:20:36 this is what I mean. To suceed in Monero as a developer you have to bow to the guy with the windows computer. To make sure his "soft feeling" is thumbs up and not thumbs down. 08:21:00 but it seems like people want to continue like this 08:22:26 nobody is serious about anything. Everybody has their little grift and there is not even an attempt to work towards a goal. 08:40:20 or what is the result of this? Who will take responsibility? My guess is no one. The funds will be filled up from the GF and everything will continue as usual, right? 10:10:59 I think the only support that mattered in that case was Vik not me, as I believe he funded it. I said I thought it was worth opening donations, not sure why you're accusing me of manipulation when I really didn't care that much. 10:13:19 Fwiw I agree with spirobel that the whole process from project selection to custody of funds is fucked, and imo the best course of action is to kill the CCS and leave core in charge of the website and not much else 10:18:17 You know what would happen if magic "lost" $500k? Me neither, but at least it would be some regulated corporate entity that people could start a lawsuit against for mishandling of escrowed funds. Now people have to try and figure out how to serve poor Luigi papers if they want to sue someone. 10:21:07 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/s/SPOo3qyhKL I tried to raise these concerns or at least concerns tangential to this two years ago apparently 10:22:30 based on fp answer to me there I guess Luigi is part of a loose South African collective for legal purposes? 10:22:50 all core members are equally (personally?) liable? 10:23:08 spirobel: good video 10:28:22 <123bob123:matrix.org> Depends if ccs is a legal entity 10:28:53 if you read the reddit thread from two years ago it appears not but they also kinda refused to be explicit 10:29:35 it's like: "guys trust us with millions of dollars we're totally cool but just don't ask us who or what we actually are" 10:37:33 every time I asked a basic question like: who actually is the core team? where can I read the meeting minutes? I just got handwavy answers. 10:40:55 I don't think there's any other answers they can give 10:48:23 so what do we do now? It seems like the old guard is not ready to give up yet. And it seems like they will just ignore everyone that is not in line. 10:53:49 everyone is free to vote with their money and you could launch an alternative crowdfunding system a la magic grants I guess 🤷‍♀️ 10:55:44 Somehow the argument is we need the current system to defend monero and it is better than nothing. But in practice it is worse than nothing. If the devs received direct monthly donations, each of them could maybe rug a few K at most. With the current system the rug potential is much larger. 10:56:35 (and concentrated on just a few people, that have clearly shown that they are incapable / untrustworthy ) 11:01:32 Yeah fwiw, MoneroFund.org exists 11:02:44 <123bob123:matrix.org> Core meetings of what? 11:03:20 <123bob123:matrix.org> Ccs meetings is where proposals get discussed 11:06:20 so we have to bow to you instead? You dont even answer DMs, because you are so important and busy. The issue is not only that the system can rug the community. The issue is also that people navigate themselves into these choke points in the community and give themselves an aura of importance that is absolutely insufferable. 11:09:14 then...start something yourself, if you are so much more sufferable lol 11:09:50 yeah I dont think I am better. 11:10:22 Every dev should host their own funding page where they directly communicate with the donors 11:10:49 we just need to make it easy enough to host and maybe prototype more of these systems to get the ergonomics right 11:11:18 I don't think any devs want to do that tbh 11:12:06 ime devs generally appreciate as little interaction with other humans as possible, and maybe this is generalizing too much but I think that they do in general appreciate having some shield between them and the hordes of unwashed masses 11:12:37 I think this is a known problem of the existing CCS - devs getting burnt out from being harassed by angry redditors or whatever 11:13:53 that could be fixed by the ergonomic of the tool: you can only comment after you donated. kuno implemented some of that, but maybe it still needs some iterations so people start using it. 11:14:02 that could be fixed by the ergonomics of the tool: you can only comment after you donated. kuno implemented some of that, but maybe it still needs some iterations so people start using it. 11:14:18 so people that dont donate need to be quiet 11:19:32 There are five community elected committee members that operate this. The closest thing in this community to a functional system with the ability to implement changes 11:23:42 Elections are opening up soon, this month or next month (I can't remember the exact time but I'll look it up) 11:24:13 <123bob123:matrix.org> Vote 1 biden 11:25:03 I don't believe uncle joe or any of his spawn are currently running for a seat on the monero fund committee :P 11:26:21 it seems like you put in a lot of effort 11:28:10 it is possible to expand the scope of the Czech association we are thinking about forming for monerokon to include "software research and development" to help fund devs 11:29:07 maybe it is a solution to fund academic research. It seems like an academic grants funding process for academics from the US 11:29:27 That would be better than CCS. Still centralized but at least there's legal responsibility. 11:30:13 and European based donors would be able to claim a tax deduction 11:30:31 If it will be a non profit we can also have elections 11:30:50 yes, same as MAGIC 11:30:58 approach 11:31:39 the issue is that committees cant produce what we need 11:33:19 <123bob123:matrix.org> But still really on someone yeah. With win98 pc 11:34:00 committees cant produce what we need 11:40:03 There has to be mechanism to fund creative work besides an academics grant committee and a win98 cookie jar. 11:40:51 we have to use our brains to come up with something better 11:42:47 Start with: You have a collective action problem and an asymmetric information problem. 11:43:13 Im not accusing you 11:43:45 Youre the outlier 11:44:16 <123bob123:matrix.org> The real spend! 11:44:18 1 real upvote 11:44:32 an outlier amongst outliers 😸 11:45:10 The reason why people like the CCS is that it provides some minimal vetting to overcome the asymmetrical information problem. Donors save time by outsourcing the vetting to someone else. Donors either prefer not to spend the time to vet or are not capable of vetting since the projects are technical. 11:45:17 and this was almost monerobull 11:45:54 Any updates on Haveno? There seems to have been no social activity for a year 11:46:02 No 11:46:14 Wait 11:46:24 Havent the projedr or the ccs? 11:46:28 I thought about this a while ago and I came up with an idea for a piece of software that is called "Monerochan's trustfund" 11:46:31 meito: They are still doing software releases. Go to #haveno-dev:haveno.network 11:46:40 The project is alive and well, had a beta release yesterday 11:46:47 Haveno ** 11:47:01 Ccs is dead 11:47:39 Oh, I guess woodser is posting dev updates in #haveno:haveno.network instead of #haveno-dev:haveno.network 11:47:43 The "frontend" ccs has indeed had 0 movenent. 11:47:43 the backend is moving along nicely 11:47:53 Another option for the EU would be great 11:49:32 An EU org could just fork monerofund.org: https://github.com/MAGICGrants/campaign-site 11:50:27 <123bob123:matrix.org> Baby steps 11:50:39 <123bob123:matrix.org> Kon needs to be self sufficient 11:50:59 Thnx 11:51:12 Deverick and I modified the OpenSats website to be more project-based instead of individual developer-based. 11:52:39 maybe 20-30k would have been fair for the frontend. I got a bit pissed off when they said they are searching for a volunteer react dev that can work for free. 11:53:17 <123bob123:matrix.org> 20k nginx static page? 11:53:47 <123bob123:matrix.org> Normally the backend is done before a frontend 11:54:42 electron app 12:29:33 Fair? 12:29:46 Theres no backend 12:30:05 We paid to put lipstick on a pig - without a pig 12:31:12 > Theres no backend 12:31:12 I mean. That ccs was supposed to have been completed in 6 months. 12:31:12 Well over a year later, theres to pig to put this imaginary lipstick on 12:31:25 No* pig 12:31:39 0 would have been fair 12:32:06 Should have waited to open til after the backend was functional 12:32:44 Should have waited to open frontend ccs til after the backend was functional 12:42:44 <123bob123:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/AqAjPgKBhtjetZgAgYoCRyaX 12:43:31 Haveno by design and consensus 😭 12:44:00 I cant believe in the entire ccs proposal nobody asked "so, what about thr backend?" 12:44:59 The whole convo was about the backend, but backend had literally nothing to do with the ccs. 12:45:07