03:01:53 <--------------------------:matrix.org> The xmr bitflip 0-1 incident 04:34:19 I would prefer if a new wallet is created for the CCS fund, rather than piggy back GF2 04:37:52 sounds good to me as a temporary measure to get things up and running for the immediate short term 05:03:41

Is there any ongoing IR process for imaging drives and collecting logs for those machines involved in the CCS wallet breach? It should be helpful in identifying any sort of IOCs left behind that can help us with attribution. 05:04:57

If there is no ongoing process I can help put togerther a simple action plan for getting the imaging and can assist in going through it to look for any potential scripts/bins left behind by an attacker 05:05:04

If there is no ongoing process I can help put together a simple action plan for getting the imaging and can assist in going through it to look for any potential scripts/bins left behind by an attacker 05:08:05 I would appreciate that. Small caveat I won't have access until after Thanksgiving 05:25:15

No worries, life happens and I know it might take some time. I'll work on getting that list together along with simple instructions on how to do it etc. I can spin up a server to dump those images into once we have them. I will also start compiling a list of known TTPs from crypto targeting groups. 06:58:33 <123bob123:matrix.org> Has the computer been shutdown? 07:19:58 mornin gentlement 07:23:28 It's never night in Monero land, morning is impossible. 07:25:31 damn when do y'all sleep then 07:54:56 <123bob123:matrix.org> sleep when your dead 08:34:45 last time i did that i lost a job cause i fell asleep anyway when i was supposed to work ;_; 08:34:50 good riddance tbh 10:38:28 never so bad it isn't good for something 14:26:33 <4rkal:monero.social> https://monero.observer/anonymous-open-letter-calls-structural-changes-monero-ecosystem/ 14:27:47 <4rkal:monero.social> pretty reasonable asks. Don't know if I agree about the hangouts tho 14:29:15 "drop official support for proprietary operating systems/wallets" seems pretty reasonable? lol 14:29:38 Didnt 4rkal say the opposite last week 14:29:46 Lets all not listen to 4rkal 14:29:48 Lolz 14:30:22 <4rkal:monero.social> Official support shouldn't be dropped. But no devs or "core" should be using windows when it comes to handling funds 14:30:33 Lol? 14:30:53 So why should users? 14:31:12 If funda arent safu on windows, why is it ok for users and merchants? 14:32:01 Sound very young and naive 14:32:06 <4rkal:monero.social> Cause merchants etc are holding their own funds, no one cares if they get hacked because of bad opsec. CCS funds are used to *fund* people 14:32:08 because sometimes I just wanna keep a small spending wallet and if it gets lost it gets lost u know 14:32:23 What? 14:32:26 Employees dont exist? 14:32:53 So, if i own a toy store, all that money is mine? 14:32:58 I dont pay my employees? 14:33:01 <4rkal:monero.social> Mate if you want to keep your funds on windows please do. If you are holding funds for other people please don't 14:33:10 If you don't support Windows you'll just push more people to using Cake and feather so whatever 14:33:10 Mate 14:33:14 I said the opposite last week 14:33:20 it's a dumb proposal that won't happen anyway 14:33:21 You said you wanted a 33/33/33 split 14:33:45 <4rkal:monero.social> Was talking about nodes. 14:33:55 <4rkal:monero.social> This has nothing to do with that 14:34:08 Well Monero GUI includes and handles monerod 14:34:10 <4rkal:monero.social> It's about trusting a black box with your funds 14:34:18 Mate, i dont use windows and havent in 15+ years. 14:34:18 YOU want more people using windoes 14:34:36 * nioc checks color of case 14:34:43 had nothing to do with the sofrware??? K im done 14:34:55 4rkal is cuckoo 14:35:02 <4rkal:monero.social> thansk mate 14:35:03 Lol 14:35:04 finally ofrnxmr is fone 14:35:07 :P 14:35:07 done 14:35:34 Done, like, im laughing too hard to continue 14:37:46 <4rkal:monero.social> Look generally speaking windows for nodes is no a bad idea since we need some more operating system diversity. But a hardened linux install is so much more secure in terms of holding funds etc. Core should not be using proprietary software tho. 14:38:12 well there's no reason to keep a wallet on the same machine as your node lets be clear about that 14:38:17 not for real money 14:38:37 <4rkal:monero.social> Imagine using windows for cold storage 14:38:44 shudders 14:38:48 <4rkal:monero.social> makes no sense 14:38:59 The proposals in this "open letter" want to make a cyber warrior out of every Monero user. Means well, but with a snowball chance in hell of happening. 14:39:17 imagine using windows 14:39:27 <4rkal:monero.social> It's pretty extreme, ill give you that 14:39:29 some of us play video games what u want from me 14:39:40 > By getting the stats we can try to get like 33% windows 33% linux 33% bsd or something 14:39:40 . 14:39:41 muh vidya gaymes 14:40:08 This is 4rkal lol 14:40:24 <4rkal:monero.social> . 14:40:45 <4rkal:monero.social> Mate hear me out 14:40:57 <4rkal:monero.social> Can we all agree that operating system diversity is important? 14:41:12 <4rkal:monero.social> Can we all agree that windows as cold storage doesn't make sense? 14:41:16 the letter describes methods that still depend on evil humans 14:41:31 ^ 14:41:48 <4rkal:monero.social> Still believe that 14:41:49 Seriously. Alll over the place 14:42:04 We need more windows daemons 14:42:04 dont use windows for your daemon 14:42:05 pick a side 14:42:21 <4rkal:monero.social> . 14:42:30 Ne need 33% of out daemons running on windows 14:42:48 But you should not a run a daemon on windows 14:42:55 Make. Your. Mine. Up 14:42:56 <4rkal:monero.social> . 14:43:00 Mind* 14:43:30 There was nothing cold about it 14:43:52 Windows wasnt used for cold storage 14:43:56 windows was not used for cold storage, and dropping windows support is a great way of shooting yourself in the foot in terms of adoption 14:44:08 ^^ 14:44:34 can we drop it now, thanks 14:44:44 im going to write an angry anonymous letter back 14:44:53 as for moving official code hosting to a different platform, not the worst idea as long as they keep a mirror on github 14:44:57 Drop support for windows? :D yes 14:45:03 jk 14:45:05 pls 14:45:16 you stole my joke 14:45:17 Its funded 14:45:27 not by CCS I hope 14:45:36 And 4rkal posted his thingamajiggy 14:45:41 No 14:45:43 Kuno 14:45:49 <4rkal:monero.social> iji2hhxnh4jfyx6q2wenr7bo2p2jmsmk7dzu5pvh2s2gupud472mihad.onion/ 14:45:59 yes, that's a mirror, not the official host 14:46:05 (still great, keep it running) 14:46:13 Arent we all mirrors? 14:46:21 do you always talk to yourself like that? 14:46:57 <4rkal:monero.social> fully funded for a year 14:47:01 I have windows so I'm not allowed to touch the code 14:47:04 So no mirror either 14:47:16 I'll see if I can set up a mirror as well 14:47:19 tor & i2p 14:47:28 <4rkal:monero.social> Too stupid to use i2p 14:47:36 <4rkal:monero.social> Tried but failed 14:47:41 i2pd makes it easy 14:47:46 4rkal.. i2p is easier than tor. Dm 14:48:18 I would not say easier, but node distribution and routing is much better handled than on tor imo 14:48:30 <4rkal:monero.social> But much slower rn 14:48:32 ceetee has windows? I feel better now 14:48:36 Setting up tunnels is easier than onions 14:48:39 That open letter is peak echo chamber. 14:49:10 solves some issues and creates many others 14:49:12 why are we even serving getmonero over clearnet 14:49:18 I2pd, add 5 lines of text 14:49:18 tor, add folders, change permissions, etc etc 14:49:24 DID ANYONE 14:49:25 <4rkal:monero.social> Wait 14:49:27 ASK FOR A GUIDE 14:49:29 ON EEPSITES 14:49:33 no 14:49:37 <4rkal:monero.social> could someone test if this is working https://khplhtfsbnzitlmj3lmdl7m36ale7iuf2kljvfmomvn7uwrvqx7a.b32.i2p:3000/ 14:49:38 It has an onion, i just dont know it :D lol 14:50:01 lol true , im surprised the letter didnt say turn er off 14:50:03 Dont need the port btw 14:50:12 https://rentry.co/ytu5if 14:50:15 +1 OFTC 14:50:17 <4rkal:monero.social> Might have got it working but forgot lmao 14:50:20 works, but don't include https 14:50:38 <4rkal:monero.social> cool 14:50:44 and yeah, port not needed either 14:52:24 <4rkal:monero.social> ```Also considering that such OSes are aiming to become cloud based, this will go completely against the "Not your Keys Not your Coins" philosophy that the Core and the community is trying to follow, for example, by not adding closed source or proprietary wallets in getmonero.org's wallet section as stated in this paragraphs``` 14:52:30 <4rkal:monero.social> Could be a problem in the future idk 14:53:42 <4rkal:monero.social> But still its up to the user 14:53:50 <4rkal:monero.social> To decide what to do 14:53:53 oh yes, fuck windows, discourage windows usage, but not by telling people to go fuck themselves if they want to try out your project 14:54:58 +1 XMPP 14:55:45 yeah XMPP is great, matrix is pretty bloated and metadata-ridden 14:55:45 but very normie friendly and still self hostable 14:56:04 <4rkal:monero.social> both matrix and xmpp are kind of shit when it comes to ux tho 14:56:05 +1 Moving away from MS 14:57:12 eh, depends on the client. Dino and Gajim are alright 14:57:21 Element has come a long way 15:02:55 Element is so trash wince v162 15:03:08 for mobile anyway. 15:03:08 element x is coming 15:03:55 <4rkal:monero.social> element is kinda slow 15:04:15 It wasnt so bad a few versions back 15:04:39 <4rkal:monero.social> But all electron bs desktop apps are 15:04:50 <4rkal:monero.social> Just using the web cause the desktop one is complete bs 15:05:22 <4rkal:monero.social> Even made this lmao https://github.com/4rkal/element-desktop-usable 15:05:35 Well, the element apps a nothing more then web app wrapped with some kind of browsers and it's libraries, right 15:05:42 web works good? 15:05:42 probably element isnt being developed to keep up, becauae of focus on element x? 15:05:50 People don't make PC apps anymore 😢 15:06:02 For mobile, its an actusl app 15:06:39 <4rkal:monero.social> element x looks great! 15:06:55 Oh, I thought they used the same code mostly and just wrap it in a mobile version of the same thing 15:07:23 yeah Electron is just Chromium headless and with a more 'lenient' sandbox 15:07:47 I'm so sick of it 15:07:54 Oh, so it use Google tech too, wonderful 😂 15:08:03 Indeed 15:08:10 Electron apps make me gag 15:08:25 Etcher is still the most baffling of them all, it's just `dd` wrapped in a "pretty" electron app with ads next to it 15:09:05 <4rkal:monero.social> Very easy to use for retards tho 15:09:18 <4rkal:monero.social> Doesn't let you dd your own disk and stuff 15:09:25 Yeah, I did see that one lol 15:09:25 Because why not having an application that if like 10000x bigger than the tool it embedded? 15:09:25 Web tech philosophy at it's best! 15:09:53 ship it on Flathub! 15:10:00 for the added bloat 15:10:04 Of course! 15:10:40 <4rkal:monero.social> I thought snap was bad /s 15:11:04 both are terrible, snap arguably worse 15:11:05 These snap, flathub, etc etc are all bandaids 15:11:20 <4rkal:monero.social> aur enters the chat 15:13:27 The problem is distribution, with AUR (or with Gentoo, for say), you compile you're packages so they get dynlinked to you're current lib, so it work 15:13:27 But unlike with Windows, if you build something that is Dynlinked, forget about it working on most other people Linux, so you have to compile for each distribution (and maybe more than one version of it), or wait for the distrib package maintainer to do the job 15:13:28 Snap is bad bad imo 15:13:38 They are 1. A proprietary app store 15:13:44 And 2. Have stolen apps in there 15:13:50 Like p2pool 15:14:01 Linux support many version of the same libs but there is only Gentoo and Nix, I think, that actually do that 15:14:16 and they use sneaky methods to get you to use it (like with chromium) 15:14:41 Snap alro require soystemd 15:14:42 as for the AUR all things considered (check the pkgbuild) it's pretty damn handy 15:14:50 and a daemon 15:14:54 christ.. 15:15:15 I dont like flat_hub_ but i dont have any problems with flatpaks 15:15:27 Featherwallets flatpak is 🔥 15:15:31 <4rkal:monero.social> whats wrong this systemd 😢 lol 15:15:37 Flatpaks are the less bad imo 15:15:45 systemd is the prime example of scope creep 15:15:46 Non, actually, I ment .appimage 15:16:03 anti unix, and arguably a corporate takeover 15:16:08 tarball 15:16:16 to top it off the lead dev ended up working for microsoft lmao 15:16:25 feathers flatpak doesnt use any of the 3rd party dependencies of flathub etc. It uses its own runtime so on and so forth 15:16:30 soystemd glows 15:16:34 <4rkal:monero.social> you guys using runit and stuff? 15:16:42 I use s6 myself 15:17:03 I just use the good old OpenRC, I should try runit or s6 eventually 15:17:35 https://skarnet.org/software/s6/ 15:17:55 my only gripe with openRC is the lack of proper daemon supervision 15:19:04 <4rkal:monero.social> I just found that a lot of apps don't work or need some sort of modification to work for openrc so gave up on it. I ain't compiling stuff just to use openrc instead of soystemd 15:19:32 which is exactly one of the problems with systemd 15:19:33 programs that hard-depend on it for the dumbest reasons 15:20:28 but most programs just need an openrc service file in /etc/init.d and you're set 15:20:35 Hard dependency on systemd is really bad yeah, that thing is just too big and doo too much stuff 15:21:02 the whole reason I moved away from windows was how opaque and unwieldy it is 15:21:44 it's simple and "works" until it doesn't, and then you're at the mercy of Indian tech support 15:22:24 Windows in is current form is quite reliable actually, more than most Linux distribution (on where you have to do some work to fix up) 15:22:24 but the joke is systemd may be open source, but it's just as opaque and unwieldy, and doing everything its own way, shitting on the linux philosophy while it's at it 15:22:36 the codebase is so goddamn massive and it's such a fast moving target you can't reliably audit it 15:22:54 The whole systemd suite, like journalctl, logind 15:23:05 Too much redhat dependency 15:23:07 and to top it off, the snarky attitude from poettering when it comes to vulnerability reporting 15:24:00 Well, everything use glibc except on select distribution, if I where glowing, I would give a few M to one of there devs for a nice bug. 15:24:00 There more distrib using glibc than systemd, and every single application use part of glibc 15:24:16 # \:( 15:24:16 your system did a fucky wucky!! 15:24:16 hang tight while we collect information, don't worry it's all sooper dooper scary compootr stuffs uwu 15:24:26 no thanks, man 15:25:08 That's for the grany 15:25:08 Sysinternal (owned by m$) offer a tool that read the bsof, because there all saved for later audit 15:25:18 except if saving bsod is off 15:25:48 I know there's ways to troubleshoot windows, they're just awful 15:26:23 Linux is not better when the UI freeze and the console can't come up to show the error, but again you do the same, but instead of using a bsod reader, you do parse what's in /var/log. 15:26:46 except it doesn't need a specialised tool, just `less` 15:27:03