04:16:59 plowsof: luigi1111 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-front/-/merge_requests/37 08:57:32 MAGIC Monero Fund - links to website where 08:57:32 Monero Bounties - "" 08:57:33 MoneroKon Association - single ccs, trying to bypass ccs 08:57:33 Monerujo Funding - l m f a o : 08:57:34 The Monero ATM Project - funded and would be bypassing ccs 08:57:34 Monero Community Art Fund - bypassing 08:57:35 P2Pool - l m f a o 08:57:35 PiNode-XMR - roflmao, 08:57:36 Monerica - 💀 why is this even here 08:58:32 MAGIC Monero Fund 08:58:32 Monero Bounties 08:58:32 links bothto website where other fundraisers (plural) can be found 08:59:03 MAGIC Monero Fund 08:59:03 Monero Bounties 08:59:04 Both link to website where other fundraisers (plural) can be found (these 2 are ok) 08:59:45 So does Monerica, if you can find it. 09:00:07 -xmr-pr- [meta] ajs-xmr opened issue #929: MoneroKon 2024 Planning Meeting: Saturday 18th November 2023 @ 17:00 09:00:07 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/929 09:00:43 Monerica is a directory 09:01:18 I don't know what it is. I can't read that mess. 09:01:59 Yellowpages 09:02:18 A phone book 09:05:07 What ever. Driving potential sponsors away from CCS is a shitty idea. 09:07:49 Bro 09:07:53 None of those are vcs 09:07:54 Ccs 09:08:00 Are ya reading? 09:08:44 Thats a bunch of projects that would be bypassing ccs, but using cca website to get fake credibility 09:08:48 Ccs 09:09:32 ccs isnt a directory for donation addresses 09:10:16 That's my point. Listing alternative/competing funding options is not a good idea. 09:10:50 Ahhh so you ARE reading. (i never doubted you for even 1 second) :D 09:11:38 I was starting to doubt your reading comprehension 😛 09:41:05 <123bob123:matrix.org> No jet fund? 10:10:44 why is it a bad idea to give donors alternative funding options? 10:11:34 shouldn't we be for decentralization? 10:13:12 Just because Monero is a decentralized crypto, doesn't mean that absolutely every single nut and bolt of infrastructure managing the project has to be decentralized too 10:13:47 In the spirit of decentralization, have you considered using $DINE? I hear it's the shit. 10:14:10 * $DINO :) 10:17:44 ajs_: What is the purpose of the CCS? 10:19:18 <123bob123:matrix.org> To get hacked 😬 10:19:31 <123bob123:matrix.org> Toon soon? 10:19:42 <123bob123:matrix.org> Too soon? 10:19:46 Nah, that's just the wallet(s) 10:23:33 TrasherDK when viewed in the historic perspective, the CCS (used to be "FFS") was used to fund devs/projects with Core acting as a trusted escrow agent in a time when there was no multisig or projects with an established track record 10:24:17 it was there when the Monero project was relatively small 10:24:26 and Core was more involved 10:25:14 Have the current CCS, pre hack, proven to be an effective source of funding for multiple devs and projects? 10:25:41 some project think not 10:26:01 and some have argued it was a broken process before the hack 10:26:02 The ones that didn't gey funded, yes :) 10:26:42 "get funded" 10:31:04 Monerujo for an example went solo because the gatekeeping that went on CCS proposals had gotten bogged down by endless decisions and bureaucracy 10:32:55 cryptographers have left Monero altogether out of frustration with funding options 10:35:42 So, the CCS model is not for everyone. Some need a regular paycheck from a registered company, then CCS ain't it. Some a happy being anon devs, getting paid for thair work, CCS covers those. 10:35:52 they were also kinda funding their own for-profit app 10:38:36 I couldn't remember what was up with the Monerujo thingy, but the for-profit rings a bell. 10:43:55 right, CCS one model, but we ought to highlight there are other options 10:46:16 since CCS is promoted by the Monero community on reddit and "official' website, it has more eyes on it 10:47:57 by linking to other funding options, it is an indication the CCS is not "the" canon option 10:48:42 Well, it's the official community funding thing. Those others are not. 10:49:04 should it be though? 10:49:12 Yes. 10:49:56 why? 10:50:45 It has proven to be an effective source of funding for multiple devs and projects 😎 10:51:25 are we going in circles now? 10:52:24 "effectiveness" is a contentious proposition 10:53:06 let's see what others think 10:54:05 Sure, let's. Anyone? 10:57:43 i would have said its good at weeding out non-critical proposals but then we got movie ccs 10:58:35 since that went through on the basis "let people decide if they want to donate or not, nobody is forcing them" that can be applied to literally everything else 10:58:48 and don't forget telsa 10:58:54 i thought tesla was a joke made by core 10:59:18 We also got that bitcoin Bluetooth monero net thingy 🤣 10:59:30 kovri money pit, Chinese forum scam 11:00:27 The beatings will continue until we accept that the CCS is great 11:03:55 Only core / seraphis devs have funding secured(tm) because of all these complaints. Everyone else including plowsof can think about their wrong doings until [solution] 11:07:28 i am so happy i never made a serious ccs proposal 11:07:33 i can shit on it all day 11:08:10 Well. I put my vote in. Have CCS continue as before, with some beefed up OpSec, and heated discussions around proposals. Gotta love that drama 😄 11:11:20 <123bob123:matrix.org> It will just need to upgrade to win 11 11:14:03 stupid ass win 11 11:14:14 it just blocked an app i wanted to start 11:14:34 but without any of the hidden run anyways buttons 11:14:34 so i actually couldnt start it 11:14:50 only way was through admin console 11:17:44 I'll have to get a Win 11 laptop soon, and am not looking forward to that experience. 11:17:45 I have a feeling, most of the software I run, won't run on win-11. 11:23:45 the most annoying part is definitely that right click doesnt show all the option anymore 11:23:55 instead they shoved stuff behind a second click 11:36:14 Someone please make a win 8 skin 😉 11:46:13 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/kFstMbFHFYrzfwbqcgZAhdbI 11:46:55 she looks smug like that dog 11:47:07 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/GlQpsvxDuLCyLgEFpnPltvRl 11:57:05 cryptographers have left Monero altogether out of frustration with funding options <<>> this was just one problem for them among others 11:58:55 also I am sure that chinese forum and kovri proposals were supported by the community which is why they went to funding, would funding not be requested for these on other platforms? 11:59:57 some in the community were so hungry for marketing that they wanted and funded the chinese forum, smfh 13:32:18 but it's decentralized, you can go start your own funding with monero name 13:40:51 I see people mention monerujo funding as example, it was again almost exclusively funded by one person 13:45:21 ccs funding is best possible monero funding atm with rules, history, and those whales supporting the monero development wants the ccs as it was 13:45:29 with wallet fixed 13:47:56 how fix wallet 13:56:29 as I see bF is only bothered about sending payment too often 13:57:04 is he collect donations in GF2 13:57:31 and someone else is sending XMR to plowsof who is sending to devs then 13:58:08 and someone reaching settlement with bF once monthly or each two months 14:00:27 Plowsof revealed his 4 year plan (that ends in taking the ccs wallet balance and vanishing) 14:00:52 MRL will discuss how to fix multisig soon 14:00:59 We should be, especially when it comes to funding. After the stupid fucking incident you'd think this would be clear to the people but no, some people have the cult cryptobro mindset. 14:04:55 And FYI the ATM project isn't funded. Last round was funded successfully. You would know if we were listed on CCS. 14:05:29 slower alternative is to help tobtoht add multi-sig fast-track into feather wallet 14:05:58 so we get real world testing of it and find bugs that way 14:07:20 multisig needs security proofs to be considered close to 100% secure 14:08:21 I don't understand why this keeps getting mentioned here? Who are these devs? Why does it matter? The reality is that you were robbed 2,675.73 XMR because of this system. "B-but the devs are salty and throwing shit at CCS for no reason", yeah right. 14:11:00 How is the robbery related to the discussion? 14:11:01 I was responding to "some devs are not happy with the current CCS". 14:12:18 It's proof that the system is shit 14:12:37 You're arguing that it's not and people are complaining because they're oh so salty 14:13:00 Nah, it only proves good OpSec is required for larger amounts. 14:13:15 Do you understand how hard that is to achieve? 14:14:08 well, I do run a few servers 😆 14:15:12 CCS is not only a shit system, but it's a system that discourages people from donating to other projects that are not listed on CCS. Perfect for rug pulling. 14:15:53 So let's all join the monero foundation, when you are ready. 14:16:00 which other funding options have integrity ? 14:16:12 transparency 14:16:39 Certainly not CCS since 2,675.73 XMR is lost 14:16:49 People are safer and better off supporting devs directly 14:17:20 Devs will be just lazy, why would they complete the task? 14:17:37 Let the donors choose how to support the devs, by listing these projects ^ 14:17:38 You only have an opinion, CCS has a record. 14:17:58 Donors have link already 14:18:00 MajesticBank: donations are not a hard to cancel scam subscription. If devs don't deliver you don't donate. 14:18:06 why listing it bro 14:18:22 You are free to promote those links 14:18:31 it's decentralized 14:18:42 you might as well start getmonero clone 14:18:49 So more eyes see it 14:19:08 Bro go shoot in the streets 14:19:38 so more ears hear it 14:19:49 I myself already reach funding goals for my projects off the CCS. But having external funding pages listed would be beneficial for monero events and other community projects. 14:20:03 Nobody can deny that. 14:20:16 as I said ccs have integrity, some of those projects don't 14:20:22 might as well be hand of NSA 14:20:39 why would ccs be involved in promoting NSA fund 14:21:01 "CCS has integrity" is your opinion on this matter 14:21:45 surely, this is just a discussion and means probably nothing 14:21:46 Some of these projects are well known and more trusted than the scam shit that was listed on ccs 14:22:05 since it's obvious in this room you can say w/e you want 14:22:09 CCS has a long record of success, nobody can deny that. 14:22:12 and insult whoever you want 14:24:13 Funny that you feel insulted 14:24:41 not talking about this particular interaction 14:25:19 community was community maybe 2-3 years ago 14:25:57 now everyone checking their end, coming to consensus decision at this point 14:26:24 For sure, Monerujo is technically for profit because we get fee sharing revenue from exchanges in the app. Believe me that if that were enough money to cover development we wouldn't have asked for funding. 14:27:26 when someone working with another fund or don't want oversight about funds they receive 14:27:36 makerdao have voting token 14:27:54 the features we got were pretty cool 14:28:13 there must be some mechanism, because you can now just print 'community members' 14:28:51 There should have been an exception made for Monerujo. Since CCS policies were broken before by funding non-free media etc. 14:30:39 I agree. I think it's the best solution we have managed to develop so far, and works great in the majority of cases. 14:33:12 And the only reason it might look like it didn't work for some people is because for very personal reasons we had some months of very little spare time, so time was spent keeping the app working fine, instead of adding new features. 14:34:02 I like about the monerujo funding approach that it's also useful for us to gauge interest on specific features, prioritize, etc 14:34:39 We don't get many instances of genuine feedback, since it's all so private and not tracked 14:35:25 I wish we can continue with the tradition of the CCS, but definitely with better funds security for sure 14:35:42 hows that going? Wen sidekick? Wen not halfassed pocketchange? 14:36:38 Right. Magic and bounties, even perhaps kuno. 14:36:38 not "random proposas 1, 4 and 9" 14:36:41 And tweak it to make it even better and transparent 14:36:52 Is this sarcasm? 14:37:09 > why? 14:37:10 Cuz of ppl like msvb 14:37:31 > > <@ajs_:matrix.org> "effectiveness" is a contentious proposition 14:37:31 > i would have said its good at weeding out non-critical proposals but then we got movie ccs 14:37:32 😁 14:40:29 > > <@anhdres:matrix.org> For sure, Monerujo is technically for profit because we get fee sharing revenue from exchanges in the app. Believe me that if that were enough money to cover development we wouldn't have asked for funding. 14:40:29 > There should have been an exception made for Monerujo. Since CCS policies were broken before by funding non-free media etc. 14:40:29 There was an exception made for geonic 14:40:45 I dont see why monerujo cant use ccs - anhdres does 14:41:08 (current "monero garden" ccs) 14:41:43 Gatekeeping, bureaucracy and the other reasons ajs mentioned. The same reason why poor merchants have to hack around btc payserver today. 14:41:55 Why not just have the CCS as a community vetted/approved list of projects that people can, or should, donate to. The destination address for the donation can go anywhere. If the proposer bails, then they arent allowed again onto the CCS "pre-approved list".. 14:42:06 What project do we NOT list? 14:42:18 One of the main reasons imo why the monero ecosystem sucks for merchants. 14:42:21 Or should ccs just be a directory for self funded options 14:42:56 There can be a directory of this and also the good ol classic centralized scam wallet 14:43:17 Possible to have both at the same time. Just don't allow CCS projects to self fund at the same time. 14:43:41 Well, how do you "get your prohext listed"> 14:43:49 Opening a pr on getmonero? 14:43:50 Could even have long time devs with profile, current focus, status of work, expected burn rate, and a view key of their wallet balance (that they control). When wallet gets low, the entry goes orange or red or something. 14:43:51 Monerica was rejected from its getmonero listing attempt 14:43:59 We can vote on it here or yeah pr 14:44:22 Thats even harder than gettinf approved for ccs 14:44:37 Who said Monerujo can't use the CCS? We decided it was better to try to do it ourselves, but nobody banned us from the CCS or anything like that 14:45:09 It seemed to be implied that monerujo HAD to use another option 14:45:18 Hmm how so? It's just a listing - similar to how exchanges and services are listed on getmonero.org 14:45:28 Im pointint out that, no, "for profit" isnt a blocker 14:45:37 Yeah, and wallets. 14:45:42 Halfassed? I don't see why not consider a full ass as this point 14:45:54 Takes foreevvvvver to get approved 14:46:06 we had lots of issues with services listed on getmonero.org scamming others 14:46:10 That may actually work 14:46:22 > > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> hows that going? Wen sidekick? Wen not halfassed pocketchange? 14:46:22 > Halfassed? I don't see why not consider a full ass as this point 14:46:23 Well, since youre not in ccs, its nobodies job to ask you for updates 14:46:35 Thats what ccs is already! Lmao 14:46:54 Except removing escrow and milestones 14:47:41 Monericas PR to -site https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2117 14:47:41 Then that's not what the ccs is already 14:47:56 Anhdres. Are you sayibf ccs is not a community vetted list of proposals? 14:48:20 Lol.? 14:48:27 Yes 14:48:50 Plowsof resign immediately 14:48:56 I'm saying that what midipoet said is not the way that the ccs works, since the escrow part is an important part of the ccs system 14:49:16 I made that distinction, anghres. 14:49:26 "Except removing escrow and milestones" 14:49:34 Then all good Mr. Ofrn 14:51:27 Yeah, it essentially removes the escrow and keeps the gatekeeping nature of the directory. You can also keep milestones, just have them associated with sub-adresses/different wallets, and update the directory when milestones are achieved to thr satisfaction of the community/CCS coordinator. If milestones aren't achieved, remove donation address/entry 14:52:46 Different subaddresses - escrow lolz 14:52:57 Different wallets = escrow 14:53:00 The use of different wallets is so the CCS can show balances and try to keep track of donations to date 14:53:17 the proposer can maintain control of the wallet 14:53:27 So it wouldn't be escrow 14:53:45 so how do you _not_ the incomplete milestone? 14:53:51 In English please? 14:53:52 Not pay* 14:54:34 I assume the idea is that the next milestone only gets funded after the first is finished 14:54:36 How do you avoid a scam proposer from collecting without working 14:54:37 sounds like a nightmare 14:55:03 selsta: yeah. Could easily be a pain in the ass 14:55:10 But it's just an idea 14:55:44