00:19:20 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> I purpose we have a web cam stream  on the offline pc!
00:20:46 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> If they cant find you where is the physical threat.
06:09:39 <Inge> nioc: next time, wear plate mail.
12:30:22 <m-relay> <p​yromaniaco:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/gPcAOEuGhlRHkFTMqwjAIqel
12:30:24 <m-relay> <p​yromaniaco:matrix.org> I'm getting back to posting regularly, I've been working on some new art and texts, all thanks to Kuno's support. Thank you so much everyone and stay tuned 😉.
12:30:25 <m-relay> <p​yromaniaco:matrix.org> https://kuno.anne.media/fundraiser/5ia2/
12:30:25 <m-relay> <p​yromaniaco:matrix.org> https://t.me/MoneroPropagandaBR
13:32:53 <m-relay> <4​rkal:monero.social> Does tx extra still exist?
13:33:17 <m-relay> <4​rkal:monero.social> Was it made smaller or completely removed?
14:27:24 <Lyza> it exists, there is a size limit in the relay rules, so large tx_extra doesn't generally get propagated by the peer to peer network, but it's not a consensus rule so a miner could theoretically still mine the transactions and the blocks would be valid
16:58:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 100kb consensus limit
16:59:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1060bytes iirc if youre running updated versions
17:02:59 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7fVG97uVE
17:03:27 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> very good video on the new trezor safe 3 with monero support
17:03:41 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> the guy also has a 8% discount code which is nice
17:46:09 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> When installing the GUI wallet to Linux, what's the difference between installing a flatpack vs the tar.bx2 file?  Does either of them do updates, like apps do in a package manager?
18:03:42 <_DOOM_> Is there any place I can get information on the mining process and how that contributes to concensus? Like when I make a transaction where does that go and how does that eventually end up on the blockchain?
18:11:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hm?
18:11:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Blockchain 101?
18:12:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> You > send tx > to node > node > sends tx > to other nodes
18:13:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Miners > connect to nodes > miner asks nodes what transactions are there > miner mines > miner finds a solution > miner sends solution (new block) to node > node sends to other nodes
18:14:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> https://nitter.net/BTCillustrated/status/1730011985096359941
18:17:20 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> The flatpak is auto updated via flathub
18:18:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> google/chatgpt/bing/etc "should i run the flatpak or the binary"
18:21:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Flatpak and binary are two different ways of packaging and distributing software. Flatpak is a package manager that allows you to install and run applications in a sandboxed environment, which means that the application is isolated from the rest of your system. This can be useful if you want to run an application that has dependencies that conflict with other software on your syst<clipped message>
18:21:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> em. On the other hand, binary packages are pre-compiled packages that are installed directly on your system. They do not run in a sandboxed environment, so they have access to all the resources on your system.
18:21:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Whether you should use Flatpak or binary depends on your specific needs. If you want to run an application that is not available in your distribution's repositories or if you need a newer version of an application, Flatpak can be a good option. Flatpak also allows you to run multiple versions of the same application at the same time, which can be useful for testing purposes. Howev<clipped message>
18:21:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> er, Flatpak packages can be larger than binary packages, and they may take longer to start up.
18:21:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> If you prefer to use binary packages, you can install them directly from your distribution's repositories. Binary packages are generally smaller than Flatpak packages, and they may start up faster. However, they may not be as up-to-date as Flatpak packages, and they may not be available for all distributions.
18:21:04 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> In summary, if you need to run an application that is not available in your distribution's repositories or if you need a newer version of an application, Flatpak can be a good option. If you prefer to use binary packages, you can install them directly from your distribution's repositories. Ultimately, the choice between Flatpak and binary depends on your specific needs and preferences..
18:21:04 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Source: Conversation with Bing, 11/30/2023
18:21:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (1) What's so good about flatpak? : r/linux - Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/99naxl/whats_so_good_about_flatpak/
18:21:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (2) Flatpak vs Snap vs native packaging - Linus Tech Tips. https://linustechtips.com/topic/1370712-flatpak-vs-snap-vs-native-packaging/
18:21:06 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (3) 5 Reasons to Use Flatpak to Install Software on Linux - MUO https://www.makeuseof.com/reasons-use-flatpak-to-install-linux-software/
18:21:06 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (4) Flatpak vs Snaps vs AppImage vs Packages - DEV Community https://dev.to/bearlike/flatpak-vs-snaps-vs-appimage-vs-packages-linux-packaging-formats-compared-3nhl
18:21:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (5) Flatpak vs. Snap vs. AppImage | Side by Side Comparison - phoenixNAP. https://phoenixnap.com/kb/flatpak-vs-snap-vs-appimage
18:21:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (6) en.wikipedia.org. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatpak
18:21:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Rip irc
18:21:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> bing even finished with  ".." 
18:21:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> what a rude bot.
18:36:55 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Holy shit batman
19:02:37 <m-relay> <x​mradar:nope.chat> I sent the new translation for kuno in swedish to be updated. Credits to vostoemisio for the translation.
19:02:51 <m-relay> <x​mradar:nope.chat> This is the new translation https://paste.sethforprivacy.com/?313483bd2f3f12bf#9vBpY9egD9kkdToBmDmXU4prx9rad8THGH7DCG8au4g8
19:17:29 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> Thank you!
19:19:14 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Double rip irc 🥀
19:19:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> np
19:19:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> oh wait, nvm, m-relay doesnt see replies :)
19:19:57 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Also install flatseal for flatpak or uss overrides
19:28:50 <nioc> looks fine on irc
19:29:16 <nioc> here is some offtopic.............
19:30:18 <nioc> Inge: I was given a knife resistant glove which is basically a somewhat fine chainmail  
19:30:59 <nioc> don't know if playing with Cat using plate mail will be any fun
19:31:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Does it work against evil maids
19:33:08 <nioc> .shrug 
19:33:11 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Cats*
19:33:22 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Crazy cat lady
19:34:07 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> We can use nioc’s cats for multi sig?
19:34:59 <nioc> only have 1 as Cat likes it that way 
19:36:29 <nioc> 3 cats is a good number to have so also works for multisig 
19:51:15 <m-relay> <v​oidastro:matrix.org> how is it possible for monero to have such absurdly low fees? will the fees increase over time?
19:51:27 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> What are uss overrides?
19:52:23 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Sorry use* overrides
19:54:01 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> I guess I already have one of them since it installed and is now syncing.  I'm guessing the sync process takes a while.
19:55:23 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> https://man.archlinux.org/man/flatpak-override.1
19:55:37 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> Actually, my log shows an error, so maybe I'm not actually syncing.
20:01:56 <nioc> overview: as btc emissions will eventually go to zero, miners can only be compensated with fees.  I imagine this has something to do with the block size being restricted 
20:02:46 <nioc> monero will ofc keep the block reward as it is now = tail emssion
20:03:19 <nioc> if monero gets used more and blocks grow then fees actually can drop 
20:04:16 <nioc> during the period of grow they can increase but once the block size is stable at a larger size then fees can be less
20:05:23 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> When I start the daemon, the first output in the log is:[11/30/23 12:03 PM] 2023-11-30 20:03:24.371 I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.3.1-unknown)
20:05:23 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> Error: Couldn't connect to daemon: 127.0.0.1:18081
20:05:26 <nioc> raising/chnaging fees via a hardfork is always an option if there is some reason to do so
20:05:58 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> When I start the daemon, the first output in the log is: [11/30/23 12:03 PM\] 2023-11-30 20:03:24.371 I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.3.1-unknown)
20:05:59 <m-relay> <q​uincunx55555:matrix.org> Error: Couldn't connect to daemon: 127.0.0.1:18081   is that a problem, or an error to ignore?
20:34:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why do we have 12 digits
20:35:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Raising fees in xmr value kind of ignores adoption add seems to assume xmr will never be more than $2000
20:36:34 <sech1> Bigger adoption -> bigger blocks -> smaller fees
20:36:52 <sech1> Fees were raised to reduce spam transactions
20:37:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 0.0000xxxx0000 is the current fee 
20:37:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> the last 6 zeros are pretty dusty
20:39:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> The fee per transction is not as low as it looks
20:41:26 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Fee per transaction is really not bad
20:41:27 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Probably cheaper than what VISA charger to merchants
20:41:41 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Especially if it go down with adoption
20:42:09 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If price go up, adoption will to
20:42:18 <sech1> Fee is <1 cent now
20:42:36 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Cent in my local currency too, really, nothing
20:43:05 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> like half a cent or something
20:46:36 <nioc> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why do we have 12 digits <<>> more is better
20:46:47 <nioc> future proof
20:47:16 <nioc> where 1 xmr = 10 million
20:48:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Let say we get massive adoption and flip BTC... Except, no block size limit... ummm, imagin... We could technically take over and the fees will just go down...
20:48:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Can only dream ;)
20:48:40 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Get the massive storage array ready!
20:49:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 0.00002950btc aka 2950 sats. Around $1.25
20:49:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> on the other hand, our fee is
20:49:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 0.000033000000xmr aka 33 micronero (or 33,000 nanonero... 33,000,000 piconero.. ).. about 0.5c. 
20:49:26 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 18m xmr
20:49:26 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 19m btc
20:49:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> In xmr and btc terms, our fee isnt proportionally "low". Its only low if you look at "cost" when priced in other assets
20:50:07 <nioc> ok then, I wanna pay more in fees  :D
21:05:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> you want to pay dollars in fees?
21:17:24 <nioc> yes  $30.66 please 
21:18:36 <nioc> for 1 in  2 out
21:21:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Were already at something like 25kxmr = ~$1 tx fee. 
21:21:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> the fee in xmr decreases with volume. 
21:21:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I wonder what the fee (in xmr) would be decreased to with a sustained 600k tx/day (btc's max throughput). 
21:21:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Avg 840 tx/block assuming 1:2 tx @ 1.5-2kb/tx.
21:21:26 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> thats ~1.5mb blocks. A 5x block size increase. 
21:21:26 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> the fee might be 0.05c right now, but even if its 66% lower (due to increase in volume), at 0.00001 xmr (assuming 38k, btc price) its still a 8x increase in fiat value from 5c to 38c to send a basic 1:2 transaction
21:22:02 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, you are right for that
21:22:03 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> would make the fee at 1.11$ if XMr where where BTC is right now.
21:22:03 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Still lower than when BTC is agitated, way lower.
21:22:04 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But that's is without taking account of the adoption.
21:23:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Of course USD isnt stable, so 38c in the future might only be worth half a cent lol.
21:28:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> @nioc 2 steps. 
21:28:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1. Split outputs into 0.001
21:28:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2. Consolidate them and set it to "fastest"
21:28:51 <sech1> Fee gets lower quadratically, not linearly, so your math is incorrect
21:28:56 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youll pay 30.66 or more :D (i think)
21:29:03 <sech1> It will get lower faster
21:29:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> My maths is guessing, i was wondering what it would be, not saying it WOULD be 0.00001 or 0.000001
21:29:57 <nioc> ofrn, I did specify 1 in  2 out
21:30:24 <nioc> $1000000 xmr
21:30:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> whoops, ofrn didnt read good
21:32:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fastest is abt $1 usd / 0.006 xmr for 1 in 2 out
21:33:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 0.006124 is what im getting
22:01:16 <m-relay> <v​oidastro:matrix.org> how are the monero fees nearly nonexistant?
22:05:45 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Nearly all online payment processor charge more
22:05:45 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> All banks payment processor charge more
22:05:46 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> BTC charge a lot more
22:05:46 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> We are like the cheapest option :D
22:06:39 <m-relay> <v​oidastro:matrix.org> but why is that? is consensus not allowing miners to accept more?
22:06:55 <m-relay> <v​oidastro:matrix.org> yet there is no congestion so that wouldnt matter anyway..
22:08:04 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> To prevent spam and blockchain bloat
22:08:34 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> then all client should send default fee so all TX look the same
22:09:00 <m-relay> <v​oidastro:matrix.org> wouldnt this make spam cheaper? with the fee being one cent anyone can embed arbitrary data into a blockchain cheaply.
22:10:33 <sech1> Fee depends on transaction size
23:07:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not 1 c
23:09:20 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its 0.004% of 1xmr
23:10:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> And yeah: what sech said. 
23:10:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> the larger the tx, the higher thebfee